Panther Revealed In June (wwdc)

[MacBoy88]

Re: Things in Panther

Originally posted by ultrafiel
Ok this is speculation, but I think very probable ( some have mentioned some of these before). Some of the features I think will be in Panther:

iChat 2.0
Safari 1.0 (no beta)
x11 (no beta)
iTunes 4.0 (if not already out)

ya, I'm not going way out there, but I really can't think of anything else. I hope that Firewire networking is included, because I remember they posted a beta release of it, and then took it off their servers for the general public. I could really use that at work because ethernet is too slow to transfer big files. Using Firewire would be great though. Oh ya, and if Apple listens to my feedback they will update DVD player and allow us to take screenshots from it (yes I know you can do that with Snapz already and a few other programs). Oh and a gripe I have about iPhoto, I want to make a cross-platform CD backup of my library with it. Most of the people I know don't have macs, but when I made a CD to give to one of them it was HFS+ and didn't do me any good. I had to find the files I wanted and burn in Toast. Not hard, but annoying.

If you go to http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/descriptions.html#hardware, ther is a paragraph about "firewire networking", but by the way it sounds it might only be FW800?

"Developing with FireWire 800 FireWire, the industry standard interface for digital video cameras and high-performance peripherals, is built into all new Macs. This year, Apple introduced FireWire 800, doubling the throughput for peripherals, and creating many new opportunities for developers. Learn how to support this revolutionary technology to provide customers with unmatched peripheral performance, reliability, and simplicity. Topics include an all-new Design Guide for FireWire, IP-over-FireWire protocol, and all-new tools for Mac OS X."

MacBoy88

 

[janey]

Re: Re: Things in Panther

Originally posted by MacBoy88
If you go to http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/descriptions.html#hardware, ther is a paragraph about "firewire networking", but by the way it sounds it might only be FW800?

that's only FW800 for developers...not IPFW for FW400 which is in the download section...

 

[pev]

Originally posted by RandomDeadHead
And what would these developers test their 64bit apps on?

Actually, this isn't so much of an issue as you may think!

A few years ago I ported some Solaris drives from 32-bit Sparc to a 64-bit Sparc architecture. Most of the effort was re-factoring the code to be '64-bit clean' and still working correctly on the 32bit CPU. This was maybe 80% of the effort, and doesnt actually require the target hardware. Once ported, theoretically it should just run ok on the larger arch. In my case this is exactly what happened.

Drivers and other code that talks to hardware are candidates for this sort of work. Applications on the other hand should pretty much just need recompilation (remember the toolchain will have had to be updated) and should work.

~Pev

 

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by pev
Actually, this isn't so much of an issue as you may think!

A few years ago I ported some Solaris drives from 32-bit Sparc to a 64-bit Sparc architecture. Most of the effort was re-factoring the code to be '64-bit clean' and still working correctly on the 32bit CPU. This was maybe 80% of the effort, and doesnt actually require the target hardware. Once ported, theoretically it should just run ok on the larger arch. In my case this is exactly what happened.

Drivers and other code that talks to hardware are candidates for this sort of work. Applications on the other hand should pretty much just need recompilation (remember the toolchain will have had to be updated) and should work.

Maybe, but even if the level of effort required is relatively trivial, at some point (real soon) Apple needs to actually announce a 64-bit hardware roadmap, or this effort won't occur. Right?

 

[pev]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Maybe, but even if the level of effort required is relatively trivial, at some point (real soon) Apple needs to actually announce a 64-bit hardware roadmap, or this effort won't occur. Right?

Maybe... However I'd argue that most mac developers arent stupid and 'know' (assume!) that this is the case and are planning for this eventuality. Anyway, I was making the point that releasing a 64bit 10.3 *will* be of use to people porting apps, even if the hardware itself isnt available (the post I quoted). If 10.3 is announced as 64bit clean, then whether and when the hardware appears is a side issue - you can assume its incoming!

~Pev

 

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by psxndc
I bought a new iBook May 27th, approximately 3 months before Jaguar came out (though I think it was delayed a little so at the time it was going to have been only 2 months). My upgrade coupons didn't do jack. I was told multiple times by Apple customer service that they were good for upgrades from 10.1.3 (installed) to 10.1.4 and 10.1.5 if I decided to get the CDs for them. Thus, I needed to pay $130 3 months after buying my machine to get Jaguar. And if people say "If you don't need it, then don't buy it. No one forces you to upgrade" that's balogna (baloney). Just about everything coming out of Apple and even 3rd parties now require Jaguar.

I feel your pain.

However, just as a note so that you understand "why": Jaguar was a major kernel upgrade. While the overall UI didn't change a whole lot (imperceptibly to most non-zealots outside these boards), under the covers nearly everything changed. Also, the Cocoa API and capabilities of the development tools underwent an order of magnitude revision between Puma (10.1) and Jaguar (10.2), and many frameworks were shifted around to make more sense in a post-Classic POV.

This is why a lot of apps being released today are not 10.1 compatible. It's not an Apple-led conspiracy to make you buy Jaguar; it is simply because developing under and for Jaguar is much easier and hence cost-effective than developing for/under Puma or especially 10.0.

Personally, I don't expect the same massive sea-change in 10.3. I still don't see Apple saying (anywhere) that 10.3 might possibly be a paid update (and we have the Jaguar explanation that historically every other major release is paid while the others are free). However, I don't suspect Apple's third-party developers will push Panther like they have Jaguar, regardless of cost.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by pev
Maybe... However I'd argue that most mac developers arent stupid and 'know' (assume!) that this is the case and are planning for this eventuality. Anyway, I was making the point that releasing a 64bit 10.3 *will* be of use to people porting apps, even if the hardware itself isnt available (the post I quoted). If 10.3 is announced as 64bit clean, then whether and when the hardware appears is a side issue - you can assume its incoming!

Yes, I see -- point taken. Thanks.

 

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Personally, I don't expect the same massive sea-change in 10.3. I still don't see Apple saying (anywhere) that 10.3 might possibly be a paid update (and we have the Jaguar explanation that historically every other major release is paid while the others are free). However, I don't suspect Apple's third-party developers will push Panther like they have Jaguar, regardless of cost.

10.1 was free to 10.0 owners? is that true?

 

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
10.1 was free to 10.0 owners? is that true?

Assuming this isn't simply a rhetorical question: yes, if you picked up a copy from an authorized reseller; otherwise $19.95 (IIRC) mail order from Apple.