Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Panther Revealed In June (wwdc)
- Thread starter MacsRgr8
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
simX
macrumors 6502a
Um, forgive me, but moving an ENTIRE EVENT to a different date is something *VERY* different from moving a keynote _one_ _day_ ahead of schedule. The only reason that they moved up the keynote date was to coinicide with the release of that Time magazine showcasing the iMac, so that it wouldn't steal Steve's thunder (of course, we all know that Time Canada spilled the beans the night before anyway, and the rest is history), so there's no way you can relate the two. There would've been a G4 iMac anyway even if they didn't reschedule the keynote.
dongmin: I have doubts that Panther's final debut will be delayed as far as December. I'm betting they'll release it in late summer, like September or so. I DID understand that they were releasing a preview at WWDC, and that's what I said in my post if you read it. However, I doubt Apple would showcase a preview and then make everyone wait half a year for it. That's not Apple, and Apple has never done that except for with the initial release of Mac OS X.
Oh, and wwworry, Mac OS X already has journaling. Type "sudo diskutil enableJournal /" to start journaling on your hard disk. Type "sudo diskutil disableJournal /" to disable it again. The metadata issue is something else, but I definitely would NOT pay for just that, because it's a minor issue IMHO.
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
Yes, quite right -- moving the ENTIRE EVENT to a different month and venue is an even more significant change. If history is any guide, Apple would not inconvenience so many people unless they had a darn good reason. I suspect this portends something; you think it portends nothing. I'm not sure why you are arguing so vehemently about this. We'll find out who guessed right in June.
What to do if you're poor and can't afford OS X
This is what I did from when I was still in middle school and high school to afford copies of the Mac OS and not completely rip off Apple. I had a friend with a G3 at the time and he was also cheap and poor. I made like $20-80 and he made a bit more. SO:
Mac OS 7.6: Me
Mac OS 8.0: Him
Mac OS 8.5: Me
Mac OS 9.0: Him
We always bought them right when they came out and then we burned them. I like to think of it as the $50 discount. I didn't want to rip Apple off and just burn a copy every time. This way I was buying their software. In case you're wondering when I got a job I started buying my own copies. I bought a copy of Quicktime too. How many people can say they did that at 18.
This is what I did from when I was still in middle school and high school to afford copies of the Mac OS and not completely rip off Apple. I had a friend with a G3 at the time and he was also cheap and poor. I made like $20-80 and he made a bit more. SO:
Mac OS 7.6: Me
Mac OS 8.0: Him
Mac OS 8.5: Me
Mac OS 9.0: Him
We always bought them right when they came out and then we burned them. I like to think of it as the $50 discount. I didn't want to rip Apple off and just burn a copy every time. This way I was buying their software. In case you're wondering when I got a job I started buying my own copies. I bought a copy of Quicktime too. How many people can say they did that at 18.
Another Perspective
Not only did they change the date, but the location as well... instead of San Jose, it is going to be in the Moscone center in San Francisco. Could this mean that the conference attendees were greater than what the San Jose conference center could hold (at least for the week in question)?
Also, it makes sense for Apple to delay the show from the aspect of allowing developers bring home a copy... the training sessions will be more focused on how to use the new features in 10.3 and would be not as useful if developers were not able to try it out. "We know you won't want to miss this in-depth information about the future of the Mac platform..." But even if Apple did not give all of the developers a preview release of Panther at WWDC, it does not matter because they would get one soon after anyways. One of the benefits of ADC membership is that you have both "software-seeding" and full versions of OS software disks regularly shipped to you through the ADC mailings.
It isn't just the OS that is new... but a new version of Quicktime seems to be coming also, and it might be that Apple needs just a little more time preparing the training materials for all of the new features that are coming out.
Not only did they change the date, but the location as well... instead of San Jose, it is going to be in the Moscone center in San Francisco. Could this mean that the conference attendees were greater than what the San Jose conference center could hold (at least for the week in question)?
Also, it makes sense for Apple to delay the show from the aspect of allowing developers bring home a copy... the training sessions will be more focused on how to use the new features in 10.3 and would be not as useful if developers were not able to try it out. "We know you won't want to miss this in-depth information about the future of the Mac platform..." But even if Apple did not give all of the developers a preview release of Panther at WWDC, it does not matter because they would get one soon after anyways. One of the benefits of ADC membership is that you have both "software-seeding" and full versions of OS software disks regularly shipped to you through the ADC mailings.
It isn't just the OS that is new... but a new version of Quicktime seems to be coming also, and it might be that Apple needs just a little more time preparing the training materials for all of the new features that are coming out.
simX
macrumors 6502a
If you had bothered to read the entirety of my original post (the relevant part quoted above), you'll see that I'm not arguing that it amounts to nothing, but that it amounts to nothing in terms of product announcements. Yes, there will probably be a lot of talk about Panther, about PPC 970s, and maybe some other stuff, but it has nothing to do with the fact that the date and venue were changed. Had they not been changed, the same stuff would've been talked about (even if developers couldn't get their hands on a preview release of Panther). Just like MWSF '02, the G4 iMac would still have been released even if the keynote was not moved up one day.
So I'll restate what I said above: Apple is trying to position WWDC as the summer Mac event. No, it will not be an event where there's a Jobs keynote and there's a bunch of new hardware announcements that gets rumor sites going. WWDC is going to remain positioned towards developers, but is still going to be a software announcement venue, and is going to be more of a "conference MacWorld". By that, I mean that it's going to be more of a hard-core get-into-the-guts-of-Mac-OS-X with a whole bunch of workshops to help people with specific parts of software development.
It's common knowledge that Apple no longer wants to do two CONSUMER trade shows per year, as I said before. This way, Apple has one DEVELOPER trade show and ONE consumer trade show, and everybody's happy. Think about it: if Apple simply wanted to delay WWDC in order to get a developer release of Panther out, would they have moved it to the Moscone center? No, they would've simply changed the date. The fact that WWDC this year is at the Moscone center suggests that Apple wants to expand WWDC.
I agree with you, but there is a very big difference between a MACWORLD conference where a 3rd party is in control and an OFFICIAL APPLE conference. It may be that Apple does (in the long run) want to take it's consumer conference the way they took over with retail. There is a great deal of money that can be made in these conferences for the promoters, but for WWDC will having a MacWorld-like atmosphere devalue the conference itself for developers?
Personally, I believe that there are two main reasons to move the conference... as I stated above, "Too many attendees for San Jose", or deciding to move back the date and San Jose was not available. Does anyone remember where the conference was last year?
Also the QuickTime conference is included in this year's WWDC, so it would be naturally larger than last years WWDC conference.
they're not selling to lots of rumor site mac ppl.. but they are selling to others.. apple's still making sum bucks.. i think*
*does not mean i am right!!
*does not mean i am right!!
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
In effect, you've made my argument for me -- I agree, Apple is positioning WWDC as their summer event. And what usually happens at their summer event? Moving the event to the Moscone Center just to get Panther in the hands of developers? I agree, that's probably just a cover story. About what these things mean, I have my theory, you have yours. As for how you "know" all these things, either you should reveal the basis for your certitude, or admit you're just speculating like the rest of us.
You're getting kind of snotty here, and there really is no cause. Please don't try to take all the fun out of guessing.
Rincewind42
macrumors 6502a
Well, the discounts are great if you can justify buying 10 computers a year 🙂. If not, then Select is just fine for $500.
Now that's an idea. Actually I was thinking that if .Mac included FREE OS updates and free AppleWorks / iOffice / whatever updates, I would actually buy it.
As it stands now, I wouldn't make enough use of .Mac to justify the cost. Throw in subscriptions to these programs (and Quicktime Pro while you're at it), and consider Apple a yearly recipient of my $100 for all eternity.
Sounds like a reasonablye fee to always be on top of the curve without any surprise post-keynote expenses when things come out ;-)
simX
macrumors 6502a
Whoever said I wasn't speculating? I am. You just misinterpreted what I was saying, and there's no reason to misinterpret it again by saying I'm "snotty". I simply said that you probably shouldn't read anything into the moving the date/venue of WWDC on any product announcements, because they would've been made anyway.
Sheesh, you try to make a good case for a point and you get accused of being "snotty". No wonder I stopped posting in online forums.
Cluster, Cluster, Cluster
It seems totally ligical that Panther will include clustering technology. That being the tech that allows parallel-computing thoough multiple computers. For instance the MacMPI, a Macintosh version of the Message-Passing Interface (MPI) library. (as talked about at Apple's website: http://www.apple.com/scitech/stories/york/index2.html)
One of the rumor sites a little while back posted a rumor that Apple was indeed working on clustering software... If I can find it I post it...
A quote from a Mac cluster study at USC:
"No evidence of an intrinsic limit to the size of a Macintosh cluster could be found, indicating that Macintosh clusters are capable of excellent scalability in performance."
The full results can be found at: http://www.daugerresearch.com/fractaldemos/USCCluster/USCMacClusterBenchmark.html
It seems totally ligical that Panther will include clustering technology. That being the tech that allows parallel-computing thoough multiple computers. For instance the MacMPI, a Macintosh version of the Message-Passing Interface (MPI) library. (as talked about at Apple's website: http://www.apple.com/scitech/stories/york/index2.html)
One of the rumor sites a little while back posted a rumor that Apple was indeed working on clustering software... If I can find it I post it...
A quote from a Mac cluster study at USC:
"No evidence of an intrinsic limit to the size of a Macintosh cluster could be found, indicating that Macintosh clusters are capable of excellent scalability in performance."
The full results can be found at: http://www.daugerresearch.com/fractaldemos/USCCluster/USCMacClusterBenchmark.html
First, the date change, though I don't know why Apple didn't mention it at all, is also likely to have been influenced by the onset of war and the subsequent general halt of nonessential business travel (international of course but also within the US for most companies). I'm not sure what to make of Apple not placing this as *the* reason for the change other than that they want developers to hype themselves over Panther.
That having been said, a bit of recent history. Jaguar was previewed at last year's WWDC, all developers left with a copy of it, and the general release wasn't until August (word at WWDC was a release in "late summer"). Of course, that was far more important for developers as Jaguar brought with it GCC 3.x, which was a major update from Puma's 2.95 and getting that into developer's hands in beta form early was a very important move. And, of course, the kernel itself suffered a major upgrade going to 10.2 and POSIX compliance went from sketchy to relatively solid (about as solid as any *nix, although I still have gripes about socket binding ...). Panther will not have such a major dev tools update (gcc 3.3 is the main branch, with a bit of new functionality down deep but nothing like the 2.95-3.0 full STL implementation and pthread/posix support Apple finally fully exposed in Jaguar), and as far as I can tell no such major kernel update, but Apple might be adding something else major (what I won't even hazard to guess) to make it worth our and their while.
So, I can definitely see Panther previewing in June and not releasing until September. I am intrigued at both the reasoning behind adding a month to the pre-preview dev time (I mean, Jaguar was far from anywhere near polished when it was previewed last WWDC ... will Panther be even worse in May, or did Jobs get negative feedback that he wants to avoid this time? I didn't hear any negative feedback, and truthfully could have used earlier and more frequent updates to the preview tools last year, but I'm probably not wholly representative of the developer community 🙂 ) Will there be something in the release (64-bit support APIs? Methods for handling 64-bit pointers? Revelation of how 64-bit ints will be handled in code ("long" or "long long"?) ... ???) that we need to start gearing our code towards six months in advance again?
Regarding the cost of Panther ... where is this coming from? Last I heard Apple was still sticking with its free/pay/free/pay update pattern. Has someone been saying otherwise?
That having been said, a bit of recent history. Jaguar was previewed at last year's WWDC, all developers left with a copy of it, and the general release wasn't until August (word at WWDC was a release in "late summer"). Of course, that was far more important for developers as Jaguar brought with it GCC 3.x, which was a major update from Puma's 2.95 and getting that into developer's hands in beta form early was a very important move. And, of course, the kernel itself suffered a major upgrade going to 10.2 and POSIX compliance went from sketchy to relatively solid (about as solid as any *nix, although I still have gripes about socket binding ...). Panther will not have such a major dev tools update (gcc 3.3 is the main branch, with a bit of new functionality down deep but nothing like the 2.95-3.0 full STL implementation and pthread/posix support Apple finally fully exposed in Jaguar), and as far as I can tell no such major kernel update, but Apple might be adding something else major (what I won't even hazard to guess) to make it worth our and their while.
So, I can definitely see Panther previewing in June and not releasing until September. I am intrigued at both the reasoning behind adding a month to the pre-preview dev time (I mean, Jaguar was far from anywhere near polished when it was previewed last WWDC ... will Panther be even worse in May, or did Jobs get negative feedback that he wants to avoid this time? I didn't hear any negative feedback, and truthfully could have used earlier and more frequent updates to the preview tools last year, but I'm probably not wholly representative of the developer community 🙂 ) Will there be something in the release (64-bit support APIs? Methods for handling 64-bit pointers? Revelation of how 64-bit ints will be handled in code ("long" or "long long"?) ... ???) that we need to start gearing our code towards six months in advance again?
Regarding the cost of Panther ... where is this coming from? Last I heard Apple was still sticking with its free/pay/free/pay update pattern. Has someone been saying otherwise?
bennetsaysargh
macrumors 68020
IJ Reilly
macrumors P6
You did, I thought -- when you said, "it will not be an event where there's a Jobs keynote and there's a bunch of new hardware announcements that gets rumor sites going."
I interpret that kind of statement not as speculation, but as an indication that you know something nobody else does, or think you do. In fact the second half of that statements seems to me to be demonstrably incorrect, given the conversation we're have right now. The buzz around WWDC is even greater this year then last -- for a series of specific reasons.
Attempting to stay focused on the substance here: if the release of 970-based Macs is indeed imminent (which seems to be the consensus), what better place to put that hardware on the table, then WWDC? The developers will after all be the people with the earliest need to know, and if this hardware will indeed hit the market some time this year (which again, seems to be the consensus), time is rapidly running short for Apple to surface their new hardware roadmap.
Again, the change in timing and venue, as well as the confluence of other events, suggests that this won't be an ordinary WWDC. And just to be clear, I'm not forecasting that Apple will use WWDC as a venue to roll out new consumer products, but that they may choose to use it to announce when these products are coming. If they don't do this at WWDC in June, they'll have to schedule a special, freestanding event shortly thereafter, since it appears that Apple won't attend MW-NY in July or at the very least Jobs will not be keynoting that event. In this move you can see Apple thumbing their nose at IDG.
To the other matter, I'm simply trying to tell you that there's no need to make your points so aggressively. Just because I don't agree with your conclusions doesn't mean I'm not "bothering to read" your posts.
FreeBSD 5.0
I would also say there is a pretty good chance Panther will intergrate technology from FreeBSD 5.0, which was released 01/19/03, and supports 64 bit processors.
I would also say there is a pretty good chance Panther will intergrate technology from FreeBSD 5.0, which was released 01/19/03, and supports 64 bit processors.
shadowfax
macrumors 603
otherwise known as lying? has apple done this at wwdc before?
that would be a really stupid, tacky move on their part. it would probably be a pretty strong blow to the 3rd party work going into the next OS too. I'd really have to stop bitching at Quark then, because apple wouldn't be much better.
bottom line--i don't think apple is going to go back on this.