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Panther Revealed In June (wwdc)

Originally posted by szark
Actually, I think she meant they could change their minds and offer a full, finished version of Panther instead of the preview release.
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i disagree--she was responding to a response that was reponding to a comment that stated we shouldn't get any illusions about this "preview"--that it doesn't necessarily mean devs will actually get anything in their hands. them releasing the final then--that seems like a real fantasy even to me.
 
Originally posted by szark
Actually, I think she meant they could change their minds and offer a full, finished version of Panther instead of the preview release.
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yah that's what I meant...I really want a finished, perfected copy of Panther at WWDC...:D
 
Originally posted by wwworry
Meta data and journaling are the only things I can think of that would be worth a paid update.
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we've had meta-data since forever and journaling since 10.2.2. i do think that a new filesystem is in the works, but unlike microsoft's which is playing catch-up (and proclaiming wonderful new features that apple has had for years), apple's will be innovating. if the final version of webcore.framework is loaded at runtime and it includes opendoc (yeah, i know) i'll buy it in a heartbeat.
 
Originally posted by übergeek
yah that's what I meant...I really want a finished, perfected copy of Panther at WWDC...:D
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that's almost like one of those fantastical newbie posts we've been talking about! :p

if apple is delaying just to release the preview, i highly doubt they will have a final. they have a track record so far this year of pushing their deadlines to the limit and beyond (thinking 17 inch powerbook here).
 
Originally posted by simX
Besides, if you DO get a new Mac, Apple usually offers an up-to-date program that allows you to get the newest major version of Mac OS X if it was released 1-2 months after you bought your Mac. Apple did that with Jaguar and Puma, and I see no reason why they won't continue that with Panther. So there's no real reason to put off buying a new Mac, either.
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I bought a new iBook May 27th, approximately 3 months before Jaguar came out (though I think it was delayed a little so at the time it was going to have been only 2 months). My upgrade coupons didn't do jack. I was told multiple times by Apple customer service that they were good for upgrades from 10.1.3 (installed) to 10.1.4 and 10.1.5 if I decided to get the CDs for them. Thus, I needed to pay $130 3 months after buying my machine to get Jaguar. And if people say "If you don't need it, then don't buy it. No one forces you to upgrade" that's balogna (baloney). Just about everything coming out of Apple and even 3rd parties now require Jaguar. Sorry, but my iBook was my first Mac and as a "switcher" I felt like Apple was gouging me. If they had charged for iLife, I probably would have switched back.

I work as a software developer so I know upgrades help fund future development, but I also know that you take care of your existing clients/customers because they're the ones doing the upgrading.

-p
 
Originally posted by Shadowfax
...they have a track record so far this year of pushing their deadlines to the limit and beyond (thinking 17 inch powerbook here).
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don't even get me started on the 17" powerbook...WHAT THE HELL IS APPLE'S PROBLEM WITH DEADLINES!!!!!!
apple's somewhat good on the deadlines for software *crosses fingers*
 
Things in Panther

Ok this is speculation, but I think very probable ( some have mentioned some of these before). Some of the features I think will be in Panther:

iChat 2.0
Safari 1.0 (no beta)
x11 (no beta)
iTunes 4.0 (if not already out)

ya, I'm not going way out there, but I really can't think of anything else. I hope that Firewire networking is included, because I remember they posted a beta release of it, and then took it off their servers for the general public. I could really use that at work because ethernet is too slow to transfer big files. Using Firewire would be great though. Oh ya, and if Apple listens to my feedback they will update DVD player and allow us to take screenshots from it (yes I know you can do that with Snapz already and a few other programs). Oh and a gripe I have about iPhoto, I want to make a cross-platform CD backup of my library with it. Most of the people I know don't have macs, but when I made a CD to give to one of them it was HFS+ and didn't do me any good. I had to find the files I wanted and burn in Toast. Not hard, but annoying.
 
Re: Things in Panther

Originally posted by ultrafiel
I hope that Firewire networking is included, because I remember they posted a beta release of it, and then took it off their servers for the general public. I could really use that at work because ethernet is too slow to transfer big files. Using Firewire would be great though.
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if you sign up to be an ADC member (free), then you can get the IP over Firewire thing.
ipfw still can't beat gigabit ethernet though ;)
 
Originally posted by übergeek
don't even get me started on the 17" powerbook...WHAT THE HELL IS APPLE'S PROBLEM WITH DEADLINES!!!!!!
apple's somewhat good on the deadlines for software *crosses fingers*
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is there an example of apple announcing a preview and releasing a final instead?
 
Originally posted by Shadowfax
is there an example of apple announcing a preview and releasing a final instead?
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no. i can't think of any. but when they say they're gonna release (name of software) they usually do release it on the day.
 
Originally posted by übergeek
no. i can't think of any. but when they say they're gonna release (name of software) they usually do release it on the day.
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i fail to see how that is an argument for them releasing a final when they say they are releasing a preview. it sounds more like an argument against your statement. and how about iLife, just this year? they pushed the release date back like half a week.
 
Originally posted by übergeek
screw iLife.
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that's not argument. that's repudiation. i was legitimately discussing things with you, and the minute they went sour, you jumped ship with a wuss thing like that. you could have at least said, well that's just one example, there are lots of others, like x and x and x that released on time. why give up now? and if you are going to give up, don't belittle my argument that you don't have the guts to respond to reasonably. meh!
 
Originally posted by Shadowfax
that's not argument. that's repudiation. i was legitimately discussing things with you, and the minute they went sour, you jumped ship with a wuss thing like that. you could have at least said, well that's just one example, there are lots of others, like x and x and x that released on time. why give up now? and if you are going to give up, don't belittle my argument that you don't have the guts to respond to reasonably. meh!
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:: sticks out tongue ::
how about jaguar, OS X, and webobjects being released on time?!
 
It's fairly obvious that Panther Preview will be either displayed for given to the Developers. I doubt that Panther Final will be ready by WWDC. It'll probably be a version with much of the "suprise" stuff removed but enough new stuff to get working on products.
 
Originally posted by übergeek
how about jaguar, OS X, and webobjects being released on time?!
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that's more like it :D. sure, they will probably release this on time, but i'll be more than shocked if they release the final at WWDC.

i'm with nuckinfutz 100% on this one.
 
Originally posted by Shadowfax
that's more like it :D. sure, they will probably release this on time, but i'll be more than shocked if they release the final at WWDC.

i'm with nuckinfutz 100% on this one.
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lol shadow sometimes...
anyway, i'm be very glad if apple releases the final at WWDC :D
 
Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
they would not give developers a full version of panther because they just demonstrated it. it would kinda be a stupid idea.
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a girl can still dream :: crosses fingers ::
i really hope apple still gives developers the final, full version of panther :D
 
Apple's divided and confused marketing efforts...

Hey psxndc,
I know your 'pain'. I thought I was the only one caught in Apple's seemingly unfocused marketing efforts. My iBook 700 w/16mb of vram is still running on 10.1.4 more out of spite and frugality than logic. Since updating their iBooks last May, Apple has released a lot of software and services that only run on 10.2. I'm still a holdout until 10.3. Your statement about not taking care of their recent customers is actually working against their software sales efforts. I would've have bought the Jaguar upgrade at a more reasonable price in percentage to the cost of the iBook, and joined .mac, and thrown money at Keynote, if they only made me feel more like a valued customer. Instead, I feel more like a vulnerable 'installed base' number. But, I love the ibook.

Originally posted by psxndc
I bought a new iBook May 27th, approximately 3 months before Jaguar came out (though I think it was delayed a little so at the time it was going to have been only 2 months). My upgrade coupons didn't do jack.probably would have switched back.

I work as a software developer so I know upgrades help fund future development, but I also know that you take care of your existing clients/customers because they're the ones doing the upgrading.

-p
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hmmm... spoiled brats?

It's funny to see people who think that the money they pay for a given item, is actually going to the promise of some future release which is included in the price they paid originally.

Wake up, kids -- this is the real world, and the reason why Apple is actually staying above water in this miserable economy is because, ohmahgawd, they have a reasonable business model that involves them actually _charging_ for the things they sell, unlike a lot of other companies that -- surprise surprise -- no longer exist (or have merged out of relevance *cough* HP/Compaq).

And to the person still using 10.1.5 on your iBook -- dude, get Jaguar, you will not be sorry. Just pretend you're paying for a processor/video card upgrade, which is what it will very much feel like. Plus all the other fun goodies.
 
Your statement about not taking care of their recent customers is actually working against their software sales efforts. I would've have bought the Jaguar upgrade at a more reasonable price in percentage to the cost of the iBook, and joined .mac, and thrown money at Keynote, if they only made me feel more like a valued customer. Instead, I feel more like a vulnerable 'installed base' number. But, I love the ibook.
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Apple doesn't do this to spite customers but one always has to remember. It's Business never personal. Apple can only offer concessions to certain people. Just as a Manufacturer with a 90 day warranty knows that they will most likely lose a customer for life should their product fail on the 91st day and Warranty service cannot be done. It may have been better for you having an ibook to wait until 10.3 anyways. We'll know this summer.

I think the thing to remember is that Apple OS evolves much quicker than Windows. If we had the same update cycle as Microsoft we'd be in trouble because by nature Mac hardware is updated much slower than X86 hardware.

Threre will be disgruntled Jaguar purchasers once Panther comes out ...somehow they feel smitten at the thought that they're not running the "latest" but every person must decide when it's financially feasible to upgrade for themselves. Me I plan to have an 18month OS refresh. That means in 3 years i've only spent $260 or $87 per year. Will I always have the latest. No but I'll be the one installing the os after the bug fixes ;)
 
you know it may just be delayed so it does not interfere with another large trade show called E3 that is getting over about 2 days before the original start date of the WWDC. I am sure several of the developers slated to attend the WWDC will want a rest after e3 before going to the WWDC
 
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