Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
it's marketing principles which Microsoft never learn, isn't it?
Samsung making huge discounts over the online sales
blackberry selling for much lower prices
Google doing ok with nexus
amazon doing amazingly good job in terms of tablet selling
and now apple releasing it's more "approachable" tablets. Microsoft still having negatively overwhelmed tablet delivery, they haw money but no simple market understanding. (or it's just me??)

Well, considering the pricing they've announced today for the Surface RT, I'd say their marketing is bang on!

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/16/...ws-rt-pricing-availability-behind-the-scenes/

$599 for a 32GB version with the fancy keyboard cover! $499 without the keyboard cover. Nothing wrong with that.
 
The rumours have Apple using the same display tech as the pre-retina iPhones for the iPad Mini: a 1024x768 display at the same pixel density as pre-retina iPhones works out at 7.85".

A Retina iPad Mini, then, would use the same display tech as Retina iPhones at 326PPI, and at 2048x1536 would be 7.85".

Apple have gotten very good at making 326PPI displays in the past 2 years. I'm sure the yield rate for a 7.85" one would be high enough for them to be able to do it.

It's a $100 increase from the iPad 2 to the iPad 3, so I don't see it as much of a stretch to assume the same price increase for an iPad Mini with Retina Display.

But see you miss the definition of "retina". I would say you would hold an iPad mini about the same distance away from your eyes as the normal iPad - meaning the retina ppi would go to the iPad 3's 264 ppi. It would depend on the aspect ratio (though I think it'll be 16:9) - but that would cause Apple to add another resolution to app developers' toolkit (roughly 1920x1080). Otherwise - a 7.85" iPad with the iPad 3's resolution would be the most ridiculous (and awesome) mobile screen in mass production.
 
I'm not a techno-ego-maniac - meaning I don't feel like a better, smarter person based on how many devices I carry around. I'm simple, pragmatic and functional. I carry a simple MacBook Air because it is light and easy to carry, holds a charge for HOURS.

Recently, I've inventoried the devices I have in my bag and pocket. I have the original iPad and an iPhone 4S. And it just hit me. I have too much stuff. The iPad perfectly capable of receiving calls. I have my bluetooth headset on all the time anyway so I am reachable. Why can't Apple just turn the iPad into a Pad that has a phone. Yeah, it may mean that they don't sell as many duplicative devices but it would mean they would keep this customer.

I'm sure there are many others out there like me. We bought Macs (iMac, MBA, and MBP) along with iPad and iPhone. We LOVE how everything integrates. But now, it's all getting a bit heavy - in every since of the word - not to mention expensive. With Windows 8 on the horizon and a SamSung Galaxy Note in reality, life just seems simpler to stop waiting for Apple to get their heads... well, back on their shoulders.

I see the mini-iPad as the last opportunity they have to combine the iPhone and iPad. If that's not the reality next Tuesday, you won't have to worry about me posting here again. I'll be a FORMER Apple customer.

Regards!

why do you need to carry a macbook air and an ipad? theres your problem
 
I am an owner of the new ipad, and I will be irritated if they already revise the new ipad this soon, and I am stuck with an outdated model, just a few months after I got mine.
 
Last edited:
I am an owner of the new ipad, and I will be irritated if they already revise the new ipad this soon, and I am stuck with an outdated model, just a few months after I got mine.

why? will yours stop working? or do you just want to show off that you have the latest gadget?
 
Apple have gotten very good at making 326PPI displays in the past 2 years. I'm sure the yield rate for a 7.85" one would be high enough for them to be able to do it.

You are right that the projections are for sub 200ppi. I thought it was higher.

However, the yields are not good that the iPhone 5 was initially in limited supply. It isn't just the display. At this point they also need the "laminated touch" since that too is new, nifty, and thinner. Apple has been preoccupied with 'thinner' much longer than 'Retina'. I suspect that thinner trumps Retina. More likely Apple will save "Retina" for the iPad mini 2 (or perhaps named iPad mini 2013 ).

If they do it now there is nothing to major to "ooh and awe" over next year. The LTE spectrum diversity issue is a real problem right now that isn't going to go away. Also by next year a 7.85" display will be that much cheaper and Apple can use that to offset margins if have to increase the Flash storage capacity at that point.

It is possible they will try "Retina" spin this time out, but doesn't seem likely. If this product is essentially replacing a iPad 2 as being the "more widely affordable' iPad then Retina isn't as much of an issue.
 
Best Better, Good Better ? 24 SKU's !!! ?

So contrary to popular belief, Apple has actually turned into a hybrid monster of Microsoft & Samsung then ;):p j/k




Seriously 24 seems ridiculous and surely this is contradicted by the supposed european price leak which did not peg anything like 24 SKU's.

Either way, if Apple do sell a 64GB with Wifi and Retina Display (after my ipad 3 I cant go back for reading text & ibooks - but do want the reduced size) then I'll have a black one on order quicker than a nun rolling down a hill....

Because in Europe they won't have to be selling them for 3 different carriers like in the US. Here you just buy one and pop in whatever SIM you want.
 
But see you miss the definition of "retina". I would say you would hold an iPad mini about the same distance away from your eyes as the normal iPad - meaning the retina ppi would go to the iPad 3's 264 ppi.

Apple's precise 264 ppi is not driven by arms' length at all. It is motivated by keeping the multiples between the pre-Retina and Retina screens driven exactly as a multiple of 2. That is it. All that is needed is to be in the 230-260+ ppi range to get the visual effect. 264 vs. 323 is fluff.

The reusing the 163 ppi also driven for "re-use" of screen layouts and button sizes ( in the iPad mini case the older iPad buttons/layout/screen ratio) . It isn't "text reading" that is driving it.

There is really not much of a different in "natural" hold distance between the iPhone , iPod Touch , iPad , or iPad mini. It is more so smaller text on the screen because the screen forces the text to be smaller that draws the iPhone/Touch closer than some physical difference.


Otherwise - a 7.85" iPad with the iPad 3's resolution would be the most ridiculous (and awesome) mobile screen in mass production.

That wouldn't be an even multiple of 2 due to the way the min's 7.85" screen was scaled.
 
Apple's precise 264 ppi is not driven by arms' length at all. It is motivated by keeping the multiples between the pre-Retina and Retina screens driven exactly as a multiple of 2. That is it. All that is needed is to be in the 230-260+ ppi range to get the visual effect. 264 vs. 323 is fluff.

The reusing the 163 ppi also driven for "re-use" of screen layouts and button sizes ( in the iPad mini case the older iPad buttons/layout/screen ratio) . It isn't "text reading" that is driving it.

There is really not much of a different in "natural" hold distance between the iPhone , iPod Touch , iPad , or iPad mini. It is more so smaller text on the screen because the screen forces the text to be smaller that draws the iPhone/Touch closer than some physical difference.




That wouldn't be an even multiple of 2 due to the way the min's 7.85" screen was scaled.

While I have no doubt your post has validity, there is a component of Apple's retina formula that has to do with average distance the device is viewed from. For smaller phone screens, the distance is closer. For iPad/tablet screens a little further and finally for something like an iMac, furthest.

I agree that it's a range (and they would be able to attain "retina" quality at something other than 264 ppi for a tablet) however the reason iPhones have 320+, iPads have 260+ and MacBook Pro's 220 is the distance. Sure some of it might be marketing - but they aren't simply arbitrary numbers.

I know they want standardization - introducing a new resolution that isn't easily scale-able wouldn't be ideal, but its either that, or stick with out-of-date tech. When the N7 and the Fire HD pack 1280x800 screens in a smaller area (more ppi) - I gotta think Apple will do something more than the 2 yr old 1024x768 from the iPad 2. Especially when Apple is the one who started this whole display war and no new product since the 2 is anything less than retina.
 
I know they want standardization - introducing a new resolution that isn't easily scale-able wouldn't be ideal, but its either that, or stick with out-of-date tech. When the N7 and the Fire HD pack 1280x800 screens in a smaller area (more ppi) - I gotta think Apple will do something more than the 2 yr old 1024x768 from the iPad 2. Especially when Apple is the one who started this whole display war and no new product since the 2 is anything less than retina.

I agree and I hope you are right. I want a display that is at least as high-res as the Nexus 7 and the Fire HD. Nook HD has an even better resolution. I can't stand the look of low-res fonts on these portable devices any more and would not want to read off of an iPad mini with 160ish ppi. I can easily tell the difference.
 
I agree and I hope you are right. I want a display that is at least as high-res as the Nexus 7 and the Fire HD. Nook HD has an even better resolution. I can't stand the look of low-res fonts on these portable devices any more and would not want to read off of an iPad mini with 160ish ppi. I can easily tell the difference.

Heck I can tell between my N7 and iPad 3 - and the diff is only about 50 ppi. If they give us a 16:9 iPad mini I hope it has a 1080p screen.

Which if it does, with 16 GB for $299 would be awesome. The screen is the only thing holding me back at this point. Selling the iPad 3 LTE for a mini LTE and then upgrade to the iPad 4 (depending on specs may just buy a used iPad 3) wifi-only as my "work" device.
 
Heck I can tell between my N7 and iPad 3 - and the diff is only about 50 ppi. If they give us a 16:9 iPad mini I hope it has a 1080p screen.

Which if it does, with 16 GB for $299 would be awesome. The screen is the only thing holding me back at this point. Selling the iPad 3 LTE for a mini LTE and then upgrade to the iPad 4 (depending on specs may just buy a used iPad 3) wifi-only as my "work" device.

my plan is similar. pick up iPad mini now, get iPad 4 next year for work (hopefully thinner, lighter). Can sell or give away the iPad mini if I don't want both but I'll deal with that later. :D
 
my plan is similar. pick up iPad mini now, get iPad 4 next year for work (hopefully thinner, lighter). Can sell or give away the iPad mini if I don't want both but I'll deal with that later. :D

Yup - I'm still wary about it though. I'll only go through with this plan if the mini's screen is up to snuff. If they don't announce it as retina, I'll have to see it for myself.
 
Well, considering the pricing they've announced today for the Surface RT, I'd say their marketing is bang on!

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/16/...ws-rt-pricing-availability-behind-the-scenes/

$599 for a 32GB version with the fancy keyboard cover! $499 without the keyboard cover. Nothing wrong with that.

my point wasn't price though, late availability, since others filling the market with cheaper devices, one customer(majority) means they don't buy 2 tabs in one year.
But, really wanted to Microsoft will be very successful in this tablet market. (why?) as a consumer we will get better products when very close market sharing between the device makers
 
I worry about the threat this poses to the simplistic model of product lines that Apple has embraced the last 10 years. Get too complicated and it messes things up.
 
I agree that it's a range (and they would be able to attain "retina" quality at something other than 264 ppi for a tablet) however the reason iPhones have 320+, iPads have 260+ and MacBook Pro's 220 is the distance. Sure some of it might be marketing - but they aren't simply arbitrary numbers.

There is a distance component, but there is a component price point component there too. Larger sized screens at constant ppi wouldn't be affordable (or profitable). But yes, the fonts and objects on smaller screens tend to be smaller so that a critical mass of info can be presented on the screen at the same time. On larger screens it is just easier to make things discernible at a farther distance. You don't have to pull the screen closer to your face to see them.

When the N7 and the Fire HD pack 1280x800 screens in a smaller area (more ppi) - I gotta think Apple will do something more than the 2 yr old 1024x768 from the iPad 2.

The flexibily that N7 and Fire HD is that:

1. sold at cost. No where near Apple's targeted margins.
2. Smaller App library which don't really care about being in conflict with.

Apple basically has two choices with the 7.85" screen if want just automatic scaling of iPad apps. The 1024x768 or 2048x1536. They hiccuped the screen a bit on the iPhone5 but that is not a new product line , has more inertia, and easier just centered and framed. (just got taller). They appear to have both shorted and narrowed the iPad mini which pushes them into matching the two iPhone ppi metrics.

I think that "average distance" story is going to be weak when it comes to the iPad mini. It is going to be more capability driven than need to move to screen closer to eyes in order to see.


Especially when Apple is the one who started this whole display war and no new product since the 2 is anything less than retina.

There is a difference between new product and product update. Apple has never started a new product category with a retina display. iPhone 4 was a an upgrade to 3GS, Touch with non-retina touch. iPad 2012 upgrade to iPad 2 , MBPr 15"/13" variants on MBP 15"/13" . [ The MacBookPro are being sold alongside non retina for a while but the core product category has largely due to pricing and more slowly evolving product category. ]

If Retina was a factor then I don't think Apple probably wouldn't split the iPad mini line up with it. Either all Retina ( and skimp on Flash storage this round) leaving the sub $300 price points or all

A form factor with the exact same container/case with two different screen densities would be new for the iOS line-up. [ And was/is marginally effective in the laptop line-up ; e.g., MBP 15" 'high res' antiglare option ... which didn't have ease of scaling. ]

----------

I worry about the threat this poses to the simplistic model of product lines that Apple has embraced the last 10 years. Get too complicated and it messes things up.

Varying case colors doesn't really introduce much complexity.

Varying the Flash memory sizes doesn't do much either. These are all single chip implementations. It is just a matter of making the circuit board with the same size chip. The only "complexity" is making the right number of the right variation. That isn't very hard when make them "just in time". When they get ordered you make it. There is not much guessing ahead of time of what product mix users will want. For the most part they basically just follow the trends as they occur.

The variance on celluar radios is out of their control. An increasingly larger component of the variance between radio implementations is just software and validation. There are some tweaks on frequencies and associated amplifiers but is just part of being in the celluar device business worldwide . It still the case that 95+% of the components are all the same for worldwide iOS devices.

The other factor is that not all of the Apple products are moving at the same rate of evolution. The shuffle , iPod classic , and iPod Touch are all moving at different rates. Same is true to a lessor extent on the Mac product line laptops , versus desktops moving at different rates.

----------

If they give us a 16:9 iPad mini I hope it has a 1080p screen.

They did. It is called the iPod Touch (5th generation). It is a tad more "mini" than perhaps you are looking for.

I don't think Apple is going to switch to 16:9 for the much larger screens.
16:9 drives a skewed orientation of which is the "correct side is up" since one side is almost double the length.


Which if it does, with 16 GB for $299 would be awesome.

It's 32GB $299. :)
 
I don't want to quote the whole post above ^ but -

I think you're right in saying the standardization is what will keep Apple at 1024x768 for the iPad mini (if that ends up being the case). I think it will have less to do with pricing (Apple already only makes half as much on iPads as they do on iPhones).

Consider this - the iPad 2 screen cost apple $57, the iPad 3 screen up in the $80s. These were both Samsung displays - the iPad mini won't be. Possible these new display makers gave Apple a better deal? I think the margins on an iPad mini will be lower than most (if not all) of their other products. But no other company can get part discounts like Apple can with their sales numbers.

If I sell screens I can either sell to Amazon (who projects to sell say 8 million units during the holidays) at a certain amount OR I can sell to Apple (who projects 20+ million) at half the cost I sold to Amazon and still make more money than I would have selling to Amazon.

What will hold them back is the simplicity for app developers in scaling apps. If they can come up with a way to do this simply (either by finding a relatively simple multiple to go to between 1024x768 and 2048x1536, or by some software tool that makes it easier) - we'll have retina iPad minis.

EDIT: I've done some number crunching. The iPad 2 (1024x768) comes in at 132 ppi while the iPad 3 (2048x1536) comes in at 254 ppi. If you take the middle (multiply the iPad 2 res. by a factor of 1.5) you are left with 1536x1152 which on an iPad mini 7.85" display yields 245 ppi - 2 MORE ppi than the Nook HD, currently the best 7" screen on the market.

You gotta think scaling by a factor of 1.5 wouldn't be too difficult right? Then again I know nothing about app development so someone please enlighten me. This middle ground seems perfect though.
 
Last edited:
I am an owner of the new ipad, and I will be irritated if they already revise the new ipad this soon, and I am stuck with an outdated model, just a few months after I got mine.

Same here I expected to at least be on the up to date model for a year. This is my addiction, i don't drink, smoke, gamble or have sex. I like gadgets and if a new one comes out with a lightning adapter and A6 processor, I will be selling a few items on ebay to get the new hotness. :)
 
It's obvious,isn't it?

2 colors: black or white
3 capacities: 16, 32, 64
4 variants: wifi, AT&T, Verizon, Sprint

That's it. Nothing to do with the full size iPad.
 
2 color (black/white)
4 size (8gb/16gb/32gb/64gb)
3 connectivities ( wifi/ GSM LTE/ CDMA LTE)

2x4x3 = 24
 
Holy crap! o_O I guess that 8GB model is how they're going to get that low entry level pricing possible..
Yeah. "Who wants that?!" was my first reaction. Then I checked my 32 GB iPad 3... 8,6 GB used. :D
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.