Pathetic we are

[zeasar]

Used a few nokia phones in the early days. When the mobile world moved into colour screens and bluetooth connectivity I moved away from nokia to sony ericsson since the nokia dont play nice with my pc.

Last week I was talking to a friend of mine who has a latest nokia, and guess what, it still doesnt like to connect well with other things, be it a pc or a bluetooth headset.

Just because lots of people are using it, doesnt make it a good product.

 

[JZ Wire]

There's a reason why most people don't use the features on their phones - even if they know they're there they can't work out how to use them.

Its so true too.
I know a lot of people that dont even know how to use 2% of the features in their phones. My friend was astonished by how easy I was able to surf the web and create bookmarks on my iphone.
I let him try it out and he said that out of all the phones he has owned he's never actually done any real web surfing because the browsers were a piece of junk and you'd get frustrated after the first five seconds.

 

[entwife]

I don't know about anywhere else, but in the UK and compared to other smartphones on a new contract, the iPhone is definitely affordable.
Maybe not cheap, but not expensive in comparison.

its actually the best value now, due to the web bolt ons etc you get included.

on blackberry tariffs you have to pay for the email bolt ons etc

 

[Roller]

What bothers me the most about the OP's dad's comments is the contention that people who buy the iPhone and other Apple products do so out of a religious fervor (hence the "church" reference) under the spell of an "insane" Steve Jobs.

Could it be that we've looked at the alternatives in the marketplace and decided that we actually prefer what Apple has to offer, whether it's because of industrial design, UI, or whatever?

It's the same BS I heard for years from people who thought I was crazy to stick with the Mac OS when I could have gone with a cheaper Windows box for my desktop computing needs.

 

[t0mat0]

It's interesting that he didn't actually say - but look, nod nod wink wink, Nokia is going to have a rival out this year, son.

The 3210 is a world dominator through being a simple phone, release in around 1999. The Razr after it. iPhone is however, in a different area - it's a smartphone, which the 3210 is not.

Nokia has it's own music conversion system, it's own Software Suite. But it doesn't really have what the App Store is proposed to have soon.


It's interesting also to note that he was really impressed with the features. No note to say that Nokia would have those (I've seen the N96 stats, which is full of stuff, but not having a great UI so far).

He basically didn't compete on features of the iPhone, he admitted it was beautiful hardware, but complained about warranty, price and care. Not mentioning about the high customer satisfaction ratings. Or the actual level of service given by different manufacturers. I haven't seen many Nokia Genius Bars in the UK
As for prices, if people buy at that price, that's profit. I hear the N96 will be quite expensive unlocked hehe.

Wonder what he'll use when he retires

 

[fastbite]

My dad hated tech and computers and calculators and dogs and -- until I got him a PowerBook G4 a couple of years ago. Now he still hates tech but loves Apple.

 

[kamiboy]

The real pathetic party here is Nokia when comparing their offerings to the iPhone. For more than a decade Nokia and others like them had been slapping each other silly trying to compete but then Apple came out of the blue and managed to not only kick them all in the bollocks with its first offering but at the same time made all other phones look like something a group of chimps had accidentally fashioned by banging various pieces of ugly plastic together with rocks.

When Steve Jobs took the scene in January 2007 and said what they had made was 5 years ahead of the industry it was not the usual bullsheit hot wind that one has come to expect being released in ones face when the mobile phone manufacturers are taunting their newest mediocre offering, no sir, in Apples case it was the actual truth. Here we are 1.5 years later and non of the so called iPhone killers have managed to be anything more than a awkward, embarrassing kindergarten jab at the king. You see, it is hard to stab a ruler in the heart when you don't even stretch higher than his knees.

The only people who still don't think so are geeks who get a bulge in their pants from looking at a spec sheet and whose brains are somehow wired in a way to make them impervious to beautiful industrial or clever human interface designs. Let those people go back to running their ugly self assembled Linux boxes via the command line and think that their N95 is a better mobile phone because it has more mega pixels in the camera or has swappable batteries, they'll never learn.

Proprietary formats and technologies? Hell, I welcome that from Apple, all that means is that everything Apple makes not only looks better and works better than anything their competitor could ever offer but it also interoperates well with anything else from Apple. That is one of the major reasons why I love their products after all, everything just works so well together, good luck getting all those other "free" devices to play nice with each other.

 

[JZ Wire]

The real pathetic party here is Nokia when comparing their offerings to the iPhone. For more than a decade Nokia and others like them had been slapping each other silly trying to compete but then Apple came out of the blue and managed to not only kick them all in the bollocks with its first offering but at the same time made all other phones look like something a group of chimps had accidentally fashioned by banging various pieces of ugly plastic together with rocks.

When Steve Jobs took the scene in January 2007 and said what they had made was 5 years ahead of the industry it was not the usual bullsheit hot wind that one has come to expect being released in ones face when the mobile phone manufacturers are taunting their newest mediocre offering, no sir, in Apples case it was the actual truth. Here we are 1.5 years later and non of the so called iPhone killers have managed to be anything more than a awkward, embarrassing kindergarten jab at the king. You see, it is hard to stab a ruler in the heart when you don't even stretch higher than his knees.

The only people who still don't think so are geeks who get a bulge in their pants from looking at a spec sheet and whose brains are somehow wired in a way to make them impervious to beautiful industrial or clever human interface designs. Let those people go back to running their ugly self assembled Linux boxes via the command line and think that their N95 is a better mobile phone because it has more mega pixels in the camera or has swappable batteries, they'll never learn.

Proprietary formats and technologies? Hell, I welcome that from Apple, all that means is that everything Apple makes not only looks better and works better than anything their competitor could ever offer but it also interoperates well with anything else from Apple. That is one of the major reasons why I love their products after all, everything just works so well together, good luck getting all those other "free" devices to play nice with each other.

Nice!

 

[t0mat0]

No mention of the paltry Tube advert, pretty much an iPhone with a Nokia badged tacked on, with some nice graphics added post shoot.

It's an interesting position, in that Nokia is behind in a way, but also the market leader. A bit like RIM's position, but Nokia is larger than RIM.

Everyone's having to learn the areas they aren't old masters in. Graphics, hardware, software, OS, GPS, carriers etc. All comign from different angles through convergence. But Apple has a lot of experience with getting things off the shelf, and adding them together, adding their OS, design style, and having a winner. The iPhone 3G is now worthy of a good tussle with Sony-Ericsson, Nokia, RIM and the rest. All good and interesting for the consumer, wherever your heart lies.

It's going to raise the game, creating some competition in the market. (Though not necessarily on price).

Bit harsh on the N95 though - it's a decent phone from Nokia, and a leader in it's heyday.

I think if you accept Apple's walled garden, it makes a great experience, where in the most part, things just work. And work bettter than the rivals.

Seeing as Apple is now showing that it can work well with Microsoft products (hello Exchange) better than the other way around. Hell of a lot of work for the rest, and the .mac update is going to raise the game considerably, as the iPhone needs to be seen in relation to all the other benefits that Apple can link in with it.

 

[reboad]

Nokia is just looking a bit too much in to the future and has forgotten immediate new models

 

[entwife]

No mention of the paltry Tube advert, pretty much an iPhone with a Nokia badged tacked on, with some nice graphics added post shoot.

It's an interesting position, in that Nokia is behind in a way, but also the market leader. A bit like RIM's position, but Nokia is larger than RIM.

Everyone's having to learn the areas they aren't old masters in. Graphics, hardware, software, OS, GPS, carriers etc. All comign from different angles through convergence. But Apple has a lot of experience with getting things off the shelf, and adding them together, adding their OS, design style, and having a winner. The iPhone 3G is now worthy of a good tussle with Sony-Ericsson, Nokia, RIM and the rest. All good and interesting for the consumer, wherever your heart lies.

It's going to raise the game, creating some competition in the market. (Though not necessarily on price).

Bit harsh on the N95 though - it's a decent phone from Nokia, and a leader in it's heyday.

I think if you accept Apple's walled garden, it makes a great experience, where in the most part, things just work. And work bettter than the rivals.

Seeing as Apple is now showing that it can work well with Microsoft products (hello Exchange) better than the other way around. Hell of a lot of work for the rest, and the .mac update is going to raise the game considerably, as the iPhone needs to be seen in relation to all the other benefits that Apple can link in with it.

yeah i loved my n95, never had any issues, it took the iphone to make me leave it, but i really enjoyed using it. i love my iphone but i do find people with iphones can be quick to just dismiss other handsets

 

[RRK]

We watched the new apple presentation together, and my dad was really impressed with the new iPhone features...

About to wrap it up - my dad says: "Good thing you a moving out soon, I wont have that thing in my house".

oh my goth, I was nearly dead with laughter, thought it was a joke - my dad never really cared which brand mobile phone I had... mostly Nokia has he could supply them.

Then he continued: "What I simply do not understand, is why Apple got such a church following them. I admit, they make very, very beautiful hardware, and their operating system is quite nice too - but...

What this says to me is that the guys at Nokia think and talk about the iPhone a lot. They have been very busy trying to replicate the original iPhone but the iPhone 3G and 2.0 software is surprising even to them. They have already conceded the point that they cannot match the quality of hardware or software and have moved their argument to more important things like, Steve Jobs is crazy, and Apple is "the Man".

 

[Archie-]

I see you have all been slurping deeply.

The things the iPhone is getting Nokia and other devices have had for ages. The things people cry out for in these forums, like voice dialing, had been there 10 years ago.

I don't get the logic where some here are saying Apple understands what people want, when Nokia is outselling them 118,000,0000 to 1700000. Maybe Nokia is actually the one who knows what people want?

 

[entwife]

yeah i loved my n95, never had any issues, it took the iphone to make me leave it, but i really enjoyed using it. i love my iphone but i do find people with iphones can be quick to just dismiss other handsets

i mean in regards to the n95 i found it very very useful to have a good quality camera with me at all times, it was also a good media device. i really rated it highly but ultimatley apple's os offered overall the best user experience and having safari in my pocket was and is just brilliant.
i just find iphone users tend to ignore things they dont like, i mean mms no matter what anyone says that is a big oversight and one i sorely miss, bluetoothing pictures to friends i miss, editing pictures on my phone i miss.

obviously the iphone has more pros than cons and the app store will fix even more, people just need to becareful they dont approach 'fanboy' territory or they will just be an inverse version of the op's dad

 

[Bakey]

To be fair I predominately had Nokia phones over the years, with my last being the N95... What utter trash!

The N95 was supposedly Nokia's "return to form" - my experience of it was nothing but pish!

And as for Apple apparently locking people in... Into what exactly are they being locked into to??

It really p*sses me off when sideliners start bashing the damn iPhone with their own completely partial and media formed views about the platform on which it is based and the potential it has! Clueless...

As for Symbian... Good idea... Poorly executed... End of!!

 

[peterdevries]

And its funny how you forget the next quarter, when iPhone sales fell much faster than the market did. I think its called saturation. BTW, thats 6.5% for the quarter, not for the whole year.

The fact that millions of people in the USA and other countries will buy the new iPhone proves that there is no saturation to speak of. The fact that iPhone sales fell was a combination of dwindling supply and rumours of an update (the 3G iPhone).

Next time when you go down to the pub and show of your screen rotation and full HTML browser, don't be surprised if your buddy whips out a LG Dare and ask you why you are showing off something which any old phone can do.

I would agree with you if it weren't for two things: the first being that Apple is the only company to having produced an actually coherent, user friendly and fluid user interface that can be used by a two year old (has anyone taken a look at windows mobile or the OS of Blackberry or current Nokia's?). The second is the convergence of technology that Apple is achieveing with the iPhone. This is the first phone to TRULY integrate music, video, photo, telephone, email, browsing, gaming etc into a package that is actually fun and easy to use.

I for one will trade my Blackberry and Ipod Video for the iPhone. One device less in my pocket...

I don't get the logic where some here are saying Apple understands what people want, when Nokia is outselling them 118,000,0000 to 1700000. Maybe Nokia is actually the one who knows what people want?

Where did you get those figures? And consider the fact that Nokia has been making and selling phones since god-knows-when. Apple introduced their phone one year ago and took considering the short amount of time a gigantic piece of the market. If they continue innovating like this, who knows what they will bring next? In addition I don't think Nokia has achieved an amount of crazyness comparable to the iPhone craze with one of their phones..

 

[alFR]

Thats pure nonsense and you should know that.

Sorry, AFAIK it's the true market share for that quarter. Have you got stats that show otherwise? Link?

iPhones were being smuggled out of USA on an industrial scale, and smuggled phones were cheaper than the ones offered by carriers. And its funny how you forget the next quarter, when iPhone sales fell much faster than the market did. I think its called saturation. BTW, thats 6.5% for the quarter, not for the whole year.

I don't see the relevance of the smuggling - those were sales, whether they were activated on AT&T or not.

The Q1 2008 market share for iPhone is 5.4%, with Nokia taking 45.2%. Different survey, though, so I'm not sure how comparable the figures are. Certainly not a major fall for Apple compared with the change in Nokia's share anyway. From the same study, smartphone sales were up 29% compared with Q1 2007. Where's the fall in sales you refer to?

Also its extremely funny to see iPhone people falling back onto the tiny smartphone market, when Jobs explicitly said he was going for the bigger phone market, and wanted to get 1% of that. He still has not achieved that yet, has he.

Next you'll be saying the mac is doing badly because it's not taking a big share of the pocket calculator market.

He actually said they were aiming for 1% of the market by end of 2008, which means 10 million iPhone sales by then. Hmm, 6 million+ sold so far, v2 about to go on sale in 70-odd more countries with new and compelling features. I think I'll still bet on them selling another 4 million before the end of the year, thanks.

Its funny how you ignore the other phone makers with competitive offerings. I think it must amaze you seeing people chose the Samsung Instinct, LG Dare and HTC Touch Diamond over the iPhone. I know its inconceivable to you, but these "imitators" are actually taking phone sales away from Apple and will limit its growth. The same thing happened to Motorola. Everyone was making a Razr clone, and their sales and the uniqueness of their proposition was removed. Its happened even faster with the iPhone.

I'm not ignoring them. I said that their releasing of phones with iPhone-like (sometimes very iPhone-like - Samsung Omnia anyone?) design and attempts at touch UI shows they're worried by the innovation that Apple's brought to the table. This is a good thing, by the way - capable handsets from competitors will keep Apple on their toes and drive further innovation from all manufacturers, which is good for everyone.

Next time when you go down to the pub and show of your screen rotation and full HTML browser, don't be surprised if your buddy whips out a LG Dare and ask you why you are showing off something which any old phone can do.

Well, if we're going to play feature tennis I'll ask him to buy a track from iTunes, buy an app over the air, play Spore or run Omnifocus. Game over....

 

[alFR]

I don't get the logic where some here are saying Apple understands what people want, when Nokia is outselling them 118,000,0000 to 1700000. Maybe Nokia is actually the one who knows what people want?

Wow, I'd love to see the source for those figures, presuming it's not your butt.

 

[entwife]

Wow, I'd love to see the source for those figures, presuming it's not your butt.

it may be sourced by his anus but they are about 40% of global market.
hahah

 

[alFR]

it may be sourced by his anus but they are about 40% of global market.
hahah

Yeah, I realise the Nokia one is correct(ish) (Edit: for all phones, not smartphones) but Apple have already sold (far) more than the 1.7 million iPhones he's quoting there.

 

[Archie-]

Apple shipped 1.7m iPhones globally in Q1 down from 2.3m in Q4 2007. That's a decline of 26.1 per cent. The market as a whole declined 14.2 per cent, falling from 329.1m units in Q4 2007 to 282.3m units in Q1 2008.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/04/25/q1_world_phone_sales/

I don't see the relevance of the smuggling - those were sales, whether they were activated on AT&T or not.

The point is while the iPhone was mainly sold in the USA, distribution was world wide, therefore iPhone sales give an indication of what Apple will achieve when it also gets distributed world wide, and its not that hot.

He actually said they were aiming for 1% of the market by end of 2008, which means 10 million iPhone sales by then. Hmm, 6 million+ sold so far, v2 about to go on sale in 70-odd more countries with new and compelling features. I think I'll still bet on them selling another 4 million before the end of the year, thanks.

I also used to understand it this way, but it has been debunked. Its 10 million for Calender 2008, and Apple has a long way to go.

Next you'll be saying the mac is doing badly because it's not taking a big share of the pocket calculator market.

Funny you should say that.

26m game consoles sold, 94m digital cameras, 135m MP3 players, 209m PCs, 957m phones... 1% market share is 10 million phones. "Exactly what we're trying to do, 1% market share in 2008, 10 million units and we'll go from there."

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keynote/

 

[alFR]

<table snipped>

That doesn't give figures for Apple (they're somewhere in the "other" bracket), the percentages quoted in the Register article don't agree with the ones in that table so you can't compare the 2 sets of figures accurately and it's for all phones, not just smartphones.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/04/25/q1_world_phone_sales/

That's comparing Q4 2007 with Q1 2008, which is pretty meaningless (doesn't account for the artificial sales bump before Christmas). That's why most people compare quarter-on-quarter with the previous year. Also, the figures are for all mobiles, whereas I'm only talking about smartphones.

The point is while the iPhone was mainly sold in the USA, distribution was world wide, therefore iPhone sales give an indication of what Apple will achieve when it also gets distributed world wide, and its not that hot.

Not necessarily: I think the proportion of people who would bother ordering from the USA off Ebay and unlocking is tiny compared to the number that will buy it from the store down the road.

Originally Posted by Jobs
26m game consoles sold, 94m digital cameras, 135m MP3 players, 209m PCs, 957m phones... 1% market share is 10 million phones. "Exactly what we're trying to do, 1% market share in 2008, 10 million units and we'll go from there."

I'll still take that bet. We'll see....

 

[diplo0]

I see you have all been slurping deeply.

The things the iPhone is getting Nokia and other devices have had for ages. The things people cry out for in these forums, like voice dialing, had been there 10 years ago.

I don't get the logic where some here are saying Apple understands what people want, when Nokia is outselling them 118,000,0000 to 1700000. Maybe Nokia is actually the one who knows what people want?

And still you're missing the point. What matters here is not the amount of phones sold, it's the quality of the product.

The reason why Nokia has sold so many phones (and still is) is that their basic phones simply did these basic phone tasks (calling, sms) before the others and better than the others. Where they failed was to keep things simple. Dozens of options have been added to their phones to make them fancier, but the only thing they managed to do is to make their phones unmanageable.

I myself bought a 6600 in the first months when it came out because I thought it had everything I'd ever need. And it does. It's just that it's an impossible phone to work with. And every Nokia model I've had in my hands since then only seemed to exacerbate that situation. Where Nokia is failing is where Apple is now succeeding. The IPhone's success will come from the quantum leap in the ease of use of its platform.

Also, I think someone should try and find out the number of 'smartphones' sold by Nokia. How many N95's were sold in it's first year? I think you'll be disappointed (certainly considering how big the Nokia brand is). The actual market penetration of the IPhone is pretty good considering it's Apple's first phone. And what will happen once the phone is more visible in the wild? It will be the same story as with the iPod. Once you reach a certain threshold, ppl will become comfortable in their knowledge that the iPhone is not 'bleeding edge' technology, but just a solid piece of hardware that can be used comfortably in all kinds of situations.

That's when the real revolution in mobile data will happen!!!

 

[Archie-]

That's comparing Q4 2007 with Q1 2008, which is pretty meaningless (doesn't account for the artificial sales bump before Christmas). That's why most people compare quarter-on-quarter with the previous year. Also, the figures are for all mobiles, whereas I'm only talking about smartphones..

I believe the point was that it slumped more than the other phone companies and more than the industry.

 

[TonyHoyle]

Not necessarily: I think the proportion of people who would bother ordering from the USA off Ebay and unlocking is tiny compared to the number that will buy it from the store down the road. Anyway, we'll see come December.

What's been happening is the 'store down the road' has been ordering iphones from the USA, unlocking them and selling them - they're freely available unlocked for ages.

I think they'll sell more now simply due to the better plans and lower upfront cost. Not to mention they now have 3G. Availability (at least in the UK) has never been an issue.