PayPal Launching Contactless iPhone Payments in Germany to Compete With Apple Pay

[insomniac86]

Over the past 2-3 years I have observed that most businesses and institutions are bound by their own investment decisions in security and e-commerce, not platforms. My work access - a small business - is incredibly low tech. My gym still uses bar codes like they’re an 80’s public library. My public transit system uses QR codes attached to an app, not NFC for me at least. The QR code system was only implemented last year so it’s gonna take time. We’re all going to be encounter a lack of standardization wherever we go, which only expands as we travel. In every case, cost is the driving factor.

As for the ease of use, scrolling with the Digital Crown among multiple options is pretty close to ideal if it isn’t using location sensing to determine my desired option.

Scrolling through Apple wallet via the digital crown on your Apple Watch is good enough. But having to open up a bunch of different apps isn’t convenient.

Sure QR codes and barcodes are not as convenient as NFC due to the lack of auto summon, but at least all your stuff is in one place.

That’s the argument I’m making. It won’t remain like that, as things will become fragmented out across multiple app wallets.

Obviously, businesses and institutions choose a product to implement their e-commerce and access control systems. But those technological solutions have to integrate with android and iOS. Hence Apple should open up their native applications and provide better Api’s to have tighter integration with those solutions.

It’s not the business and institutions that integrate directly into the platforms. But the software solutions they choose to invest in that integrate with platforms.

I do this for a living. I just rolled out a Gallagher access control system last month for a Gas Plant and a HID door access system to a 40 story building last week.

The only way you can have Apple wallet integration is via a bunch of licensing hurdles, and end point user count restrictions.
This is completely unnecessary. Apple could open up NFC via Apple wallet irrigation but they choose not to, because Apple want a cut of the license.

Now that the EU is forcing Apple to start opening up access, Apple have chosen to be spiteful and not allow developers to integrate with their native Wallet solution directly. This allows people like PayPal to reinvent the wheel and have yet another fragmented app.

 

[Joosst]

Just wondering: couldn’t PayPal just offer a ‘PayPal card’ to use in Apple Wallet? Or would Apple restrict that? It would obviously be much nicer to have one wallet for everything…

 

[SnowPenguin]

I am not very fond of Paypal, but having more choices is still a good thing.

 

[turbineseaplane]

So much angst over offering new choices for phone payments. I would think you’re all Tim Cook by the way you’re worried about Apple. What about yourselves and the ability to choose (or not)? Bizarre.

It's really wild and pervasive on nearly every topic.

For the life me I don't get the constant stanning for Apple

 

[insomniac86]

Just wondering: couldn’t PayPal just offer a ‘PayPal card’ to use in Apple Wallet? Or would Apple restrict that? It would obviously be much nicer to have one wallet for everything…

PayPal can only add the cards to Apple Wallet if they utilise the ApplePay framework. Which involves a licensing cost to Apple. Since NFC payments are now open on iOS, the only way 3rd parties can implement their own solution and avoid these additional costs is to create their own separate wallet/app.

Apple has chosen to block access to the Wallet app, which in itself has nothing to do with the ApplePay protocol. It’s just spiteful to the end user.

 

[I7guy]

It's really wild and pervasive on nearly every topic.

For the life me I don't get the constant stanning for Apple

I understand. I don’t get the constant criticism either. If apple stuff doesn’t work for a customer, buy what does.

 

[cupcakes2000]

I understand. I don’t get the constant criticism either. If apple stuff doesn’t work for a customer, buy what does.

Well thanks to regulations like this, we can still buy Apple but choose whether we want to use an Apple service or an alternative service, rather than either use apples services or be forced to completely abandon the platform.

Seems extremely obvious what the best outcome is, and as it remains a choice for every user, I cannot for the life of me work out what the problem for other users is. I get apples woes on the issue, but a random forum user? Just don’t change the defaults 🤷

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Precisely. I've had an iPhone since 2009 and don't recall being able to pay with NFC until Apple Pay came out. If PayPal wants to claim prior art, they need to re-examine their history.

And it’s not like they couldn’t have had NFC because Credit Cards with NFC’s have been available since 2005! It just looks like a situation like Tile where, when there was no competition, they just sat around doing nothing. “No one is going to challenge us so why try?”

After there was competition, they… continued to sit around doing nothing and losing market. Finally, someone splashed water on them and they decided that competing is something they maybe, possibly should think about doing? But by then had ceded market to literally everyone else.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Windows had over 90% of the market when they went through their antitrust actions, Apple has less than 30% of the market in the EU. The two situations aren’t remotely comparable.

And Microsoft’s issues were primarily around their mistreatment of OEM’s. Apple has no OEM’s so there’s no parallels.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Don't you Americans see this coming? The obstacle was Apple's closed NFC payment system, but the EU forced them to open it up. They're already working on Wero Wallet, a European payment system with direct NFC payments from bank accounts, bypassing the fees of US-controlled cards (American Express, VISA, or Mastercard) and without European transactions going through US servers.

But, in order to USE that service from an iPhone, an EU citizen would first… ahhh… have to buy an iPhone. I guess folks COULD buy a phone from one of the large EU cell phone companies.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Judging by your comment, i'm not sure you actually understand the nature of these services or competitive business environments. You seem to think that everybody should be racing to the the first to give Apple a cut of their business.

No, everyone should be RACING to beat Apple to the punch. In these industries, something like Apple entering the market is no surprise, Apple had to talk to a lot of people and get a lot of approvals in place ahead of time. Paypal were aware of what was coming and did nothing to solidify their connection with their customers, expand their reach into newer technologies (like paying by NFC cards), and basically make it so that if Apple’s going to win a customer, it’s going to be a challenge. A competition.

Instead they just sat around doing nothing, seeing that NFC was becoming a big deal but not producing any NFC cards. Seeing that Apple Pay was becoming a big deal, but not having a card on Apple Pay (even though like I said, I was able to add my tiny credit union’s debit card to Apple Pay years earlier than PayPal). They’re big in Europe because they embraced NFC. They could have been JUST as HUGE in the US if they’d embraced NFC. There’s no way to excuse losing THAT much market other than incompetence.

 

[rman0726]

Just wondering: couldn’t PayPal just offer a ‘PayPal card’ to use in Apple Wallet? Or would Apple restrict that? It would obviously be much nicer to have one wallet for everything…

I have a PayPal debit card that I use for the 5% cashback at restaurants and it adds into Apple Pay fine. I don’t know for sure about the credit card, but Google says it does.

Personally I am quite happy with my Apple wallet having all my cards and hope it continues that way. It makes it a lot easier to have many different cards that utilize cashback the best. I am fine with PayPal having its own wallet if it feels like it will be better off that way than paying whatever Apple’s fee is. I just hope that they don’t end up removing the option of having my PayPal card in my Apple wallet. But if they do, I’ll adjust as in always do, utilizing whichever cards give me the most cashback for specific purchases.

 

[cupcakes2000]

No, everyone should be RACING to beat Apple to the punch. In these industries, something like Apple entering the market is no surprise, Apple had to talk to a lot of people and get a lot of approvals in place ahead of time. Paypal were aware of what was coming and did nothing to solidify their connection with their customers, expand their reach into newer technologies (like paying by NFC cards), and basically make it so that if Apple’s going to win a customer, it’s going to be a challenge. A competition.

Instead they just sat around doing nothing, seeing that NFC was becoming a big deal but not producing any NFC cards. Seeing that Apple Pay was becoming a big deal, but not having a card on Apple Pay (even though like I said, I was able to add my tiny credit union’s debit card to Apple Pay years earlier than PayPal). They’re big in Europe because they embraced NFC. They could have been JUST as HUGE in the US if they’d embraced NFC. There’s no way to excuse losing THAT much market other than incompetence.

This rant has nothing to do with anything. This about Apple allowing something other than Apple itself being the default provider of payments with using the iPhone. Until very recently, Apple had the monopoly on providing this service. Now other companies can prove this service. PayPal just happen to be one of the first embracing this change.

This is about what we as customers can choose to put on our phones.

 

[Ad47uk]

Since most shops and websites in Europe don’t accept Amex due to its high processing fees, I prefer using PayPal whenever possible, as it allows me to use my Amex card through my PayPal account.

That is a good reason to use it.

 

[Ad47uk]

Why does it matter to you? If you don’t want to use it, don’t. Apples wallet app isn’t going to magically stop working. One day there maybe an option that works for you, and then you’ll have a choice. Or you have the choice to remain using apples solution.

So much angst over offering new choices for phone payments. I would think you’re all Tim Cook by the way you’re worried about Apple. What about yourselves and the ability to choose (or not)? Bizarre.

It don't matter to me at all, I don't have an Iphone, just wondering what is the point of using PayPal against what ever is supplied on your phone.
Choice is good and up to people at the end of the day.

 

[Ad47uk]

I am not very fond of Paypal, but having more choices is still a good thing.

I have nothing against PayPal as such, no better or worse than any other financial company. I use paypal for a couple of things, but I would not put it on my phone to pay in stores.,

As you said, choice is good.

 

[Joosst]

PayPal can only add the cards to Apple Wallet if they utilise the ApplePay framework. Which involves a licensing cost to Apple. Since NFC payments are now open on iOS, the only way 3rd parties can implement their own solution and avoid these additional costs is to create their own separate wallet/app.

Apple has chosen to block access to the Wallet app, which in itself has nothing to do with the ApplePay protocol. It’s just spiteful to the end user.

Alright, let’s hope this move from PayPal will make Apple rethink the way Apple Wallet works. If Apple has to allow different wallet apps by law, why not just allow any nfc card to be added to Apple’s own wallet app…? That would at least keep everything in one place. But they’re probably annoying again, wanting to keep everything locked, fragmenting an otherwise fine system.

 

[insomniac86]

Alright, let’s hope this move from PayPal will make Apple rethink the way Apple Wallet works. If Apple has to allow different wallet apps by law, why not just allow any nfc card to be added to Apple’s own wallet app…? That would at least keep everything in one place. But they’re probably annoying again, wanting to keep everything locked, fragmenting an otherwise fine system.

Yes, exactly my rant captured in a single paragraph, well done

 

[wordup60]

I have been locked out for years because their authentication system wants to call the original phone number I had in 2000 not the more recent number I changed it to in 2003. Logging in was fine until about 2012, then someone tried to hack the account and it went into defense mode and I could never get back in.

Exactly the same here. And moving countries was a nightmare too.

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

I’m guessing once this is all set up, PayPal cards will drop support for Apple Pay. For them, it will be fine, but if Apple tried to do that, it would be “anti-competitive” and they would get sued hundreds of millions of dollars.

This is my only concern
Honestly I use PayPal because it’s the only personal payment processor that will work across borders (CashApp and other competitors are US only and Stripe is too much of a hassle to set up) so this would kinda benefit me but I wouldn’t want that to be at the expense of anyone who uses their debit card