PC to Powerbook: processor speed

[thomastsui]

Again.

Well. People in mac community always say that,
"well, this is unfair to compair G4 to nowadays Intel P4, AMD CPUs or even Celeron, coz G4 is a very old technology"

What i think is. G4. for a CPU, itself, it's old. BUT, the top of line Apple POWERBOOK series, we can see, they are still using this CPU and selling for a really expensive pirce.

Well, in fact, for myself, I am a mac fans, I have watched all the keynote since 1999, collection of apple ads, switch ads.

And I love my Powerbook G4, even it is the third year that this machine serves me. And I am happy with that, going to use it as long as it can.

Remember in the year of 2002. the year that i bought my powerbook g4, We have Powemac QS 933, OS 10.2. Well, everyone happy with that. Soon, we got Duel 867, what a awesome Mirror door Powermac. It handles everything i wanna do on a computer with the speed i expected. (fast enough).

Well. what i think is, people switch from PC to mac, is not all about speed.
For speed, people can add lots or RAM into their PC with every month upgrade of CPU, and keep change a largerer Harddisk(and install the windows again, yes, again, but PC guys get use to format and install process, haha).
Well. Display card, they can change their display card while every new game released. EVERYTHING IN A REALLY CHEAP PRICE! (coz they got compenents made in china and taiwan) durabiliy? forget it, no components will use more than a year. UPGRADE !

But for macintosh, people enjoy the computer experience. First of all, by the user interface, OSX gives us a really kicked ass GUI. And I like the way that finder organizes my files.

Moreover, OSX gives me a sense of stabiliy, I don't have to restart to gain "free memory" (people restart their PC no longer for system crush, no more blue screen for XP, but for refreshing thier memory/Virtual memory)

And I don't have to worry about spyware, no tricky sreach bar will apear on my Safari suddenly. And virus.

Of course, sth need apple to improve in mac, like tracking speed of mouse, like no scrolling for apple mouse(don't tell me that i can plug in any mouse, I like apple, I loyal to apple when i use apples, haha)

What i suggest for switcher is, buy mac if you like the OSX eXPerience,
don't buy it, if you don't like OSX.

Speed? well, they are all enough if you are not doing some kind of CPU intensice work like render 3D models, movie encoding.

Well. off topic, I gonna buy a Mac mini, is that like a upgrade fo rmy 667PB? ie. faster?

 

[840quadra]

Well. People in mac community always say that,

other people, yes, myself , no.

Used comptuers are a strong market for many people, if people want to buy an older Macintosh they are going to compare them to newer systems like the celeron and such. It goes into the justification of buying a used computer over a newer used comptuer.

I agree with the rest of your post, I like the Macintosh OS, and systems enough to use my older Digital Audio, more then my newer Athalon XP system running Linux.

They are both fun to use, but something about the Macintosh keeps me comming back. The AMD system is fun in it's own way, I love to play with Vmware and programs not yet ported to OSX.

 

[Fukui]

I know it may be a little off (original was talking about G4), but my G5 1.8 (iMac), playing an HD (1080) video only pegs the CPU at about 40+%, if thats any indication of how the CPU's compare...

Its really not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be.
The worst you'll notice it is window resizing and games.
On average a G4 1.5+ powerbook with plenty of RAM should be adequate.

 

[jiggie2g]

Well. what i think is, people switch from PC to mac, is not all about speed.
For speed, people can add lots or RAM into their PC with every month upgrade of CPU, and keep change a largerer Harddisk(and install the windows again, yes, again, but PC guys get use to format and install process, haha).
Well. Display card, they can change their display card while every new game released. EVERYTHING IN A REALLY CHEAP PRICE! (coz they got compenents made in china and taiwan) durabiliy? forget it, no components will use more than a year. UPGRADE !

News flash your precious mac has just as many made in china/taiwan components in it as the worst PC. 90% of any mac's parts are the same as the stuff I buy on Newegg.com, with the exception of the CPU(IBM/Motorolla) , Motherboard(Apple) and the case(apple). The big difference is in software , OSX and iLife , Final Cut Studio.

 

[Fukui]

News flash your precious mac has just as many made in china/taiwan components in it as the worst PC. 90% of any mac's parts are the same as the stuff I buy on Newegg.com, with the exception of the CPU(IBM/Motorolla) , Motherboard(Apple) and the case(apple). The big difference is in software , OSX and iLife , Final Cut Studio.

I would think that the Mobo CPU and Case would count for more than 10%.
Secondly, just because its made by Asus or whoever doesn't mean they manufacture using the same cheapo techniques as they do for say dell. Just open an iMac case and tell me (aside from the stick of ram and the GPU) thats using all the same parts you can find at newegg.com.

 

[jiggie2g]

I would think that the Mobo CPU and Case would count for more than 10%.
Secondly, just because its made by Asus or whoever doesn't mean they manufacture using the same cheapo techniques as they do for say dell. Just open an iMac case and tell me (aside from the stick of ram and the GPU) thats using all the same parts you can find at newegg.com.

iMac G5 , Slot load DVD-RW made by Panasonic, 80-160GBSATA HD's are from Seagate I think. Geforce FX5200 Ultra GPU is intergated but made by nvidia , and LCD screen is made my Samsung or LG.

 

[thomastsui]

Components

Yes, mac, Pc parts are made from china/taiwan.

However, the point is,
PC components are cheaper, much cheaper than those using in mac, for mac.
It is not all about manufacturing cost infact. Infact, it is because there are so many manufacturing in China making really cheap components, like display card, sound card or even mainboard. Well, and that is not bad because the chips on the PCB is still ATI/Nivide.

In PC world, they got lots of OPTIONS to choose cheapest components or sth better with higher price.

HOWEVER, in mac world, we can buy components to upgrade our computers, lets take a look, what do we have.

1. we can upgrade our HDD same cost as PC

2. we can buy a ATA133/SATA PCI card inorder to add more and more HDD or create a RAID system, but that card. Costs triple than PC. I don't know how much for this card selling in US/UK, but i know, in Hong Kong's Computer market, a ATA133 RAID PCI card is just US$20-30

3. We can add as much as memory we want, but we have to carefull for the brands coz compatiblity.

4. We can add a external firewire/USB HDD, but no way for the US$50 one, coz that is not using Oxford 911, you gonna pay US$100 to buy an ice-cube.

5. Display card. wait until Mac edition, and pay double, please

Well. i am not gonna say this is not good to have a mac.
And I just wanna proof/explain why ppl in PC world upgrade their machine so offen. even though we all using chinese components.

And I have never seen anyone in mac community upgrade their system as crazy as PC guys.

 

[jiggie2g]

Yes, mac, Pc parts are made from china/taiwan.

However, the point is,
PC components are cheaper, much cheaper than those using in mac, for mac.
It is not all about manufacturing cost infact. Infact, it is because there are so many manufacturing in China making really cheap components, like display card, sound card or even mainboard. Well, and that is not bad because the chips on the PCB is still ATI/Nivide.

In PC world, they got lots of OPTIONS to choose cheapest components or sth better with higher price.

HOWEVER, in mac world, we can buy components to upgrade our computers, lets take a look, what do we have.

1. we can upgrade our HDD same cost as PC

2. we can buy a ATA133/SATA PCI card inorder to add more and more HDD or create a RAID system, but that card. Costs triple than PC. I don't know how much for this card selling in US/UK, but i know, in Hong Kong's Computer market, a ATA133 RAID PCI card is just US$20-30

3. We can add as much as memory we want, but we have to carefull for the brands coz compatiblity.

4. We can add a external firewire/USB HDD, but no way for the US$50 one, coz that is not using Oxford 911, you gonna pay US$100 to buy an ice-cube.

5. Display card. wait until Mac edition, and pay double, please

Well. i am not gonna say this is not good to have a mac.
And I just wanna proof/explain why ppl in PC world upgrade their machine so offen. even though we all using chinese components.

And I have never seen anyone in mac community upgrade their system as crazy as PC guys.

This is true for 2 segments of the PC market Geek-Modders , and Gamers. These are the guys why upgrade every quater but they are a minority. most people never buy stupid Dell Boxes and don't ever open them except to add more ram. The Dell crowd make up 70-80% of the Market.

These are also the Idiots who spread Viruses because they have to click on every piece of spam in thier mail box or spend hours on Kazza, Surf the Web with out a proper virus/spyware program and firewall.

mac users just get raped when it comes to Video Cards, there is really no excuse for this now that ADC is gone it's just a simple firmware flash. It's a crime that after 2yrs there is still no mid-level GPU out for Mac(6600Gt AGP/X700 Pro AGP) even a Radeon 9600XT, with out having to buy a brand new system. when the 24 Pipeline cards come out this summer , theses 8 pipeline cards will drop even further to the low-mid level while the 16 pipe cards become the mid end.

I don't why people insist on paying an arm and leg for an external drive from Lacie or whoever when you can just get the external case of your choice for like $35-45 and buy the best hard drive for less.

 

[840quadra]

I don't know that Apple's Motherboards are built to higher standards then Asus, or Intel. What I do know is Apple has less to look at from other manufacturers as far as building R&D and quality control standards for their own equipment. Unlike PC Board makers like Chaintech, and Gigabit, Apple doesn’t have Asus and Intel to look at for Motherboard designs like in the X86 world.

The Extra R&D costs that Apple acquired by doing allot of in house research, and contracting companies to work on "apple Exclusive" parts, is part of why the Apple hardware demands more of a premium.

However, I am sure they get the benefit of experience that Foxconn and other Manufacturers have from working with X86 system boards.

 

[Fukui]

iMac G5 , Slot load DVD-RW made by Panasonic, 80-160GBSATA HD's are from Seagate I think. Geforce FX5200 Ultra GPU is intergated but made by nvidia , and LCD screen is made my Samsung or LG.

Yes, but those components are not necessarily taiwan based.
Samsung: Korea
Panasonic: Japan
Seagate: Probably Taiwan.

But the point is though, most desktops don't use A) widescreen LCDs which do cost more than most others, B) laptop size slot loading CD drives, and C) combine them in a different way that what most every OEM manufacturer do.

Its not just the raw parts, its the R&D, and especially the manufacturing, just look at how much better the iMac is in build quality than to the sony All-in-ones.

There are other things so look at than just raw parts costs/parts.
And out of all the things that are shared between macs and PC's (the base components) I would say fairly, that it comes to more like 60+%, but hardly 90%.

Macs do get the shaft when it comes to video cards, I will say that.

 

[thomastsui]

Again

I don't why people insist on paying an arm and leg for an external drive from Lacie or whoever when you can just get the external case of your choice for like $35-45 and buy the best hard drive for less.

Well. i am using an ice-cube External FW HDD for myself.

I agree with what you have mentioned.

And I have to make my argruments more clear here.
Refer back to my frist 2 post here.

What i think, as a conclusion.

1. Mac - better user experiences in OSX
2. PC - Faster speed in cheaper price, as well as cheaper/more upgrade options.
3. Mac and Pc both offer ENOUGH SPEED for most users

Well. I don't wanna be off-topic.

 

[jiggie2g]

Well. i am using an ice-cube External FW HDD for myself.

I agree with what you have mentioned.

And I have to make my argruments more clear here.
Refer back to my frist 2 post here.

What i think, as a conclusion.

1. Mac - better user experiences in OSX
2. PC - Faster speed in cheaper price, as well as cheaper/more upgrade options.
3. Mac and Pc both offer ENOUGH SPEED for most users

Well. I don't wanna be off-topic.

Agreed ,

I Love OSX let no one say I said otherwise , but I hate the Current Mac offerings , The Powerbook is overpriced 2yr old technology sold at State of the art prices , The PowerMac G5 is last years technology sold at Cutting Edge Alienware , Falcon Northwest , Velocity Micro , Dell XPS prices. My opinion.

Mac's are fast enough for the average person who just wants simplicity , low maintence , and does plan old everyday stuff like email, web browsing, MP3 and light Photo/Video editing.

I went back to PC because I could not afford a G5 back in mid 2004 , and I did not want to get stuck with another ageing iMac in 2-3yrs. When I 1st made the switch to Mac I had just gotten fed up with my PII 266 128MB PC100 SDRAM running Windows Me(god I hated it) and it's fu*king Blue Screen of Death.

So when I saw the iMac G4 for the 1st tme on the cover of Time Magazine back in Jan 2002 , I said to myself "hey maybe I should take a look at this".
At the time it represented the best combination of speed , software , asthetics and absolute value. I was getting a 15in LCD with DVI , 2X DVD Burner , 60GB HD , 256MB SD RAM and a crap load of free software for $1799USD. Plus i had Purchased The Original iPod thats same day

There was nothing under $2499USD in the PC market that could match that sort of absolute value. back in early 2002 15in LCD's were $500 , DVD Burners s were like $700-$500. So I made the Switch , the transition went pretty smoothly. I fell for OSX 10.1 , then Jaguar ,then Panther. I still miss some features, like Sherlock and Expose'.

However Like most PC's it started showing it's age , and an 800mhz G4 starts looking very slow next to your buddys 3.0ghz P4's and Athlon XP's, no to mention Athlon 64's. So when I decided I had enough witrh the spinning beach ball on my again Mac. I started looking for something new and something with an upgrade path(this now omits the iMac G5). That left me with the Power Mac G5 , but I wasn't paying $1499 or more for something I felt was a rippoff. Geforce FX 5200 Ultra , 265MB DDR RAM , 80GB HD you , 1 optical slot, for $1499 or more ....you gotta be joking Apple.

So I did the math...

Athlon XP-M 2400+(1.8ghz) OC'd @ 2.3ghz
Corsair Value 1GB(512MB x 2) Dual Channel DDR3200 OC'd 420mhz FSB
DFI NFII Ultra Infinity Motherboard w/ Soundstorm
ATI Radeon 9600 128MB DDR
NEC ND-3500A 16X DVD-+RW/4X DVD+R DL
Lite-On SOHR-5239S 52X CD-R/32X CD-RW
Hitachi Deskstar 250GB SATA 7200rpm 8MB cahe HD
Thermaltake Silent Boost Heatsink
Antec Sonata W/ 380watt SmartPower PSU
Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 2.0 w/ tilt wheel mouse
Total was a little over $650 USD at newegg.com

Plus this week I purchased an Acer AL1715smd 17in LCD Monitor w/DVI for $218 also at newegg.com

After doing the math the choice was very clear to me. Porting iTunes on Windows was also a huge factor ..Thanks Apple.

I found that Windows XP(I use XP Pro)wasn't the evil OS that people here speak about , you just have to maintain it like any well oiled machine.
Good fire wall , AV/ Spyware program , light programs not bloatware. It works for me and that's all that matters.

Do I miss OSX sure but unteil applle and IBM get's it together i will keep Kicking them in the ass till they get things up 2 speed. Then they will see my money again.

 

[calyxman]

After doing the math the choice was very clear to me. Porting iTunes on Windows was also a huge factor ..Thanks Apple.

I like the idea of iTunes for Windows, but I have to admit, WMP 10 interfaces very nicely with the taskbar when you minimize it. I wish you could do something similar with iTunes. Unfortunately, WMP on its own doesn't support mpeg-4 format that iTunes used to when ripping my CDs.

 

[GFLPraxis]

I think you'll find the speed pretty similar. That said, the switch to Mac OS X will be an incredible upgrade coming from Windows. I switched 6 months ago, and I wouldn't trade my Mac for a PC that was twice as fast because Mac OS X is such a good OS.

It's true, you'll find that in raw benchmarks that 1.67 GHz is technically slower than the 2.4 GHz P4 in raw speed, but because Mac OS X is so efficient, the G4 will feel just as fast if not faster due to Quartz Extreme.

Windows is a huge bottleneck for x86 processors.

 

[GFLPraxis]

All you Mac Nuts need to give up the Ghost and admit that the G4 is a chip that is being dragged to death by Apple and needs to be put out of it's misery. The G4 should have been EOL'd in 2003 , it's never been anything more than a supercharged G3 with Altivec.

Not in a couple months. Until just recently that was true, BUT! The e600 are coming.

Dual core G4's at 25w at 1.5 GHz. Wowza.

Maybe this is Steve's June surprise?