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iPad Pro Phil called it a "Windows Replacement"
- Thread starter MartyCan
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True side-by-side multitasking is brand new to iOS, you need to give it time to figure out a smoother way to handle this. But to be honest, Windows 8 had the same problem with side by side multitasking with their apps. So..
I make a lot of use of the "back to......." Button top right when I need to click a link and want to go back where I had jsut been.
Not to mention on IPP with SmartKeyboard you can <Command>+<Tab> to flick through the app switcher just like in OSX. Phil mentioned that as a favorite feature of his and I agree. In fact having arrow keys and the Command key is huge.
Not to mention on IPP with SmartKeyboard you can <Command>+<Tab> to flick through the app switcher just like in OSX. Phil mentioned that as a favorite feature of his and I agree. In fact having arrow keys and the Command key is huge.
It's true that Windows 8 also had glitchy side-by-side multitasking, but they also didn't abandon the tried and true scalable window format. I don't mean to give them a free pass for this either. This whole thing just seems like a new solution to a problem that was perfectly solved a long time ago, and no one asked for it to be solved again.
A while ago I had one of those old convertible laptops with a swivel-around screen, which ran Windows XP Tablet PC Edition. It wasn't ideal to use touch-input on Windows XP because all buttons were tiny when intended for a mouse, and text input was awful. What wasn't awful was window management and selection. This worked just fine when poking around with a finger.
I'm not saying we need OS X on an iPad - I realize that would be bad on many levels. But I also don't think it's ok to put out an OS which can't do something which we have been doing on other OSes for over two decades. It's not like iOS is new either, Apple has been working on it since at least 2007, and has been working on it for an iPad since at least 2010. Multitasking is something people worried about in the 1980s, are we really ok with that much regression in UI design?
It's not just iOS either - Apple brought the same stupid split-screen UI to OS X Yosemite. Why would they do this? It's so stupid! Windows 7 already did side-by-side window management nearly perfectly with it's snap feature. As our Apple-Messiah said, "We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas." Steal this idea Apple! It's not copyrighted, it's not patented. Take it and make it better!
More Windows, scalable windows all add up to more memory, more power drain, bigger batteries, higher costs and on and on. Somewhere along the way the business has to decide "OK this is the best balance we can offer right now" and release it.
I've looked at Surface Pro's with curiousity and even thought about buying one to compare for myself. Have not seen one as thin and light as an iPad. Have not seen one with decent specs yet at what I'd call a decent price either.
Two companies have taken two different strategies. MS is still the King of PC and their tablet option is based on being a converted laptop with a touch screen. Apple's is a tablet from start to finish. I don't have a Window's PC though I do run Parallels on a rMBP because the business requires some Windows apps. But I probably spend more time on iOS than I do in Windows.
Oh please. Scalable windows and multiple windows ran just fine on my 133mhz Intel Pentium (with MMX technology!) and 32MB of RAM. All the RAM requirements of today come from the needs of the apps themselves, not from window management or window scaling.
Indeed this can be easily shown - open up a browser on your computer, and begin opening more tabs and loading more websites in the same window. Then move those tabs into new individual windows. Do this with Activity Monitor open and note that the RAM used goes up in proportion to how many websites you have open, not in proportion to how many windows you have open.
To the extent the iPad requires X amount of memory to run two apps currently in it's half-arsed side-by-side multitasking, it would not require more RAM to run those two same apps in a properly scalable solution.
Apple is the one that keeps bragging about how awesomely powerful the iPad is. Meeting this expectation is on them.
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I agree, the Surface Pro is meh. I actually think the best PC is a Mac. The iPad is a fine tablet, but all this hyperbole about it being a "windows replacement" "laptop replacement" "everyday computer" "post-PC era" is total nonsense.
If you are trying to tell me that more Windows open does not use more resources I'm going to continue to disagree. Some windows like a web page may not use much but everything loaded into RAM is using some of it. OS's deal with this by swapping physical RAM and disk cache (or Storage RAM for a tablet) and this uses power.
And if you give people the ability to open multiple scalable Windows they are going to open a bunch of memory hungry apps and when it crashes they are going to come onto MacRumors Forums and whine about Apple only supporting xx open Windows on the OSX iPad.
Honestly, some people can't be satisfied. Maybe that's why Apple does not try to satisfy all.
And if you give people the ability to open multiple scalable Windows they are going to open a bunch of memory hungry apps and when it crashes they are going to come onto MacRumors Forums and whine about Apple only supporting xx open Windows on the OSX iPad.
Honestly, some people can't be satisfied. Maybe that's why Apple does not try to satisfy all.
I'm not really sure what you're disagreeing with. More apps running concurrently uses more RAM - that is correct. However, the 12.9" iPad Pro has as much RAM and more processing power than a 2011 Macbook Air. My 2011 Macbook Air can run a dozen apps concurrently without issue. Really, it's limited by how many apps I can fit on the screen at the same time more than anything else.
To be clear though - this is a function of number of apps, not number of windows. As I've said, I explained, 1 Safari window with 12 tabs open will use as much RAM as 12 Safari windows each with 1 tab open.
I'm confused though about what your point was. My original message was that it is unreasonably complicated to compose an email while referencing a website and having an IM conversation with a colleague, all at the same time, on an iPad with the current state of iOS. This is something a large number of users do all the time on Windows or OS X or ChromeOS with ease. None of those are RAM intensive tasks.
If Apple doesn't try to satisfy all, they shouldn't make statements like "windows replacement" or "post pc era"
Phill's comment about PC replacement sounded awkward, and in fact it was a recycle of raison d'etre for Core M powered ultrabooks like 2015 MacBook.
Not sure this was used by Apple at all, but Intel's webpage dedicated to Core M compared it to previous generations of Core i5 and reasoned that it performed similarly or better (in some ways) than the 2011 version but with much lower power consumption, and since so many people use PCs that are five or more years old, they will be perfectly happy with a laptop running Core M, so everyone should build such a laptop!
So that's a purely marketing speak, iPad Pro is no more a PC replacement than MacBook is.
Not sure this was used by Apple at all, but Intel's webpage dedicated to Core M compared it to previous generations of Core i5 and reasoned that it performed similarly or better (in some ways) than the 2011 version but with much lower power consumption, and since so many people use PCs that are five or more years old, they will be perfectly happy with a laptop running Core M, so everyone should build such a laptop!
So that's a purely marketing speak, iPad Pro is no more a PC replacement than MacBook is.
It doesn't have to be a Windows replacement for all to be a Windows replacement for the majority and any tablet can do that these days.
iOS is not a Windows replacement for anyone where very simple tasks require way too much Fruit-Ninja-ing (swipping up down left and right all over the place), as compared to the same task on Windows / OS X / ChromeOS.
Though I think the example I outlined in post #75 is very common, here's an even simpler one: looking up three competing car models, and composing an email to your friend links to a review or each car and differences in price. For this you need to juggle: browser, email client, and calculator. It doesn't get more everyman than that. Count the number of swipes and taps and button presses this takes on iOS, and compare to OS X.
That actually doesn't mean it can't replace Windows. It just means it isn't as efficient for somebody who is comparing 3 models of car. Also, let me juggle this.
Open email client
Pull over safari
Use google as calculator.
You're not really juggling 3 apps. But let me see if it works with links the way I'm talking. Yep. I could definitely see myself opening up 3 links and using google as a calculator since the iPad doesn't have it natively anyway.
eh..to win over the business world, you have to take up against Microsoft.
Ms is a true hustler, Windows is (basically) free for business, it works better with their servers, their office suite, their reporting apps, and they are all relatively cheap when you take the whole package, or so they sell it...
Then as a consumer/employee you walk into your office with an iPad Pro, and asks your IT dept to hook it up. They start rolling their eyes, as it need to be managed differently in the active directory...and so on. "No sir, no power pivot in excel, ask your colleague for a different file".
So unless you're an independent "creative" or can do your job from a cool coffee shop, you're not gonna come far in business town.
Even when the hardware is significantly better/different, don't bother.
If Apple starts taking it server business and office apps serious...
Ms is a true hustler, Windows is (basically) free for business, it works better with their servers, their office suite, their reporting apps, and they are all relatively cheap when you take the whole package, or so they sell it...
Then as a consumer/employee you walk into your office with an iPad Pro, and asks your IT dept to hook it up. They start rolling their eyes, as it need to be managed differently in the active directory...and so on. "No sir, no power pivot in excel, ask your colleague for a different file".
So unless you're an independent "creative" or can do your job from a cool coffee shop, you're not gonna come far in business town.
Even when the hardware is significantly better/different, don't bother.
If Apple starts taking it server business and office apps serious...
Interesting discussion. I have always wondered why the iPad can't have scalable windows, and I definitely think that is the true limiting factor of the device as a productivity tool. Am I right in thinking that the difference between an iOS and OSX (or Windows) is that the iOS, in order to save power and to be an "instant on" OS, is a very light framework with the actual apps doing more of the heavy lifting vs. a full operating system that is slow to boot, takes more power and RAM itself, but can juggle multi tasking much better? It seems obvious to type, but I have never thought of it that way before, and that makes perfect sense as to why multitasking is such a struggle for iOS devices.
The "back to" in iOS 9 has made things much better in regards to juggling apps, but it definitely isn't as easy as having multiple windows open. And I would think with apps like Hulu having the scalable mini screen option in iOS 9 that other scalable windows are soon to follow. It seems that Air 2 can handle at least some true multi tasking with scalability but for whatever reason it just is difficult to implement or it is decision that Apple has made for other reasons, like perhaps not cannibalizing Mac sales. But until this happens, iPad really isn't a Windows replacement at all.
The "back to" in iOS 9 has made things much better in regards to juggling apps, but it definitely isn't as easy as having multiple windows open. And I would think with apps like Hulu having the scalable mini screen option in iOS 9 that other scalable windows are soon to follow. It seems that Air 2 can handle at least some true multi tasking with scalability but for whatever reason it just is difficult to implement or it is decision that Apple has made for other reasons, like perhaps not cannibalizing Mac sales. But until this happens, iPad really isn't a Windows replacement at all.
Good points.
I think in terms of iOS vs. OS X, they are equal in terms of frameworks and resources. The main difference is OS X allows executable to have have level of direct access to hardware, whereas iOS makes it mandatory for all apps to be in a sandbox environment, walled off from everything else. There are hundreds of threads in this forum debating the pros and cons of these approaches.
It has nothing to do with boot times, after all iOS does take a while to boot from being off, and OS X is quite fast at resuming from sleep.
I think the main issue with multitasking on iOS is UI design. Apple just hasn't figured out an effective way to let users manage multiple apps using just their fingers on a 10" screen. By 'effective,' I mean equal to or better than mouse/trackpad on a OS X. The iPad is powerful enough, and has enough RAM for major multitasking. iOS has all the capability to run many apps at once.
The challenge is just how to put that information on a screen. So far, not just Apple, nobody has come up with a good UI design for this. Everyone seems to agree that the window-analogy is not proper, but there isn't anything yet that matches it in terms of efficiency and usability. Everyone seems to be hedging their bets, at once embracing the split-screen UI while at the same time keeping the traditional window based UI available as well.
Ok thanks for the clarifications.
I really see an iPad as an accent to a laptop or pc. I personally have a larger gaming windows laptop, a 9.7" iPad and a phone for my setup, and the iPad is really far superior to the laptop for certain things. It's more portable, better for reading, and will certainly be better for writing/drawing once I get the Pro with a Pen. The Surface has always been tempting as I would love to have the full capability of a windows laptop in the portability of a tablet, but it lacks apps and good graphics for gaming. It seems that Apple and Windows are really fighting for that all in one device but neither has the full package so until then I'd rather use two devices that will do 100% of what I need them to do quickly rather than one device that does everything but sub-optimally.
I really see an iPad as an accent to a laptop or pc. I personally have a larger gaming windows laptop, a 9.7" iPad and a phone for my setup, and the iPad is really far superior to the laptop for certain things. It's more portable, better for reading, and will certainly be better for writing/drawing once I get the Pro with a Pen. The Surface has always been tempting as I would love to have the full capability of a windows laptop in the portability of a tablet, but it lacks apps and good graphics for gaming. It seems that Apple and Windows are really fighting for that all in one device but neither has the full package so until then I'd rather use two devices that will do 100% of what I need them to do quickly rather than one device that does everything but sub-optimally.
The thing about Phil for me is - all that money he has and he still won't get those 3 warts/growths surgically removed.
Everyone knows the story Pinocchio? When Pinocchio lies his nose gets longer. When Phil lies these warts pop up.
While I think it's smart to start aiming the new breed of iPads toward the PC market more, I didn't find the 5 year-old PC statistic they spouted off during the keynote to be "sad". I bet you a lot of people are still using those 5 year-old PCs because they're still working just fine. I have a Windows desktop that's about 4.5 years old. Granted, I've periodically upgraded a lot of the components since buying it in 2011, but it's never given me any problems and still runs great.
The iPad Pro can easily replace a computer for a general home user. However there is absolutely no way will it replace a computer for me and won't for the foreseeable future.
I use the iPad Pro for sketching and concept design and presentation. My computer is still needed for high end cad modelling, 3D visualisation etc.
This reply is being done on the iPad and it does a great job at it with the keyboard, but if I was a person who typed all day, this keyboard is no way up to scratch.
So, for short periods of use, email, web and social medial apps etc the iPad is all good. It goes to great when you use it for productivity in apps like Adobe sketch, Pinterest, curator, Evernote, Todoist etc. I love it for those and is the best thing I have brought in years.
Here is how I use mine in the day :
Morning - sketching, to do list, research, email etc.
Afternoon - desk device next to workstation as digital notepad and reference whilst modelling and using high end PC software.
It acts like a productivity tool and a sidekick depending on task. Really great when you start to work out how to implement it into a workflow.
As you can see the conclusion for me is it is not a replacement for a computer but an integral part to my life now. Maybe one day it will be all I need, but not right now. For some yes I can see it, for me no.
I dont agree for the reason i have all the devices, but i cant stand having to hold an iPad and type on a virtual keyboard with no feedback. yes i have a BT keyboard to use with the iPad, but again you cant just kick back on the sofa and put it on your lap and use it.
The iPad is a consumer consumption device for occasional use, so even now sat on a train i can't use the iPad comfortably to reply to this post. I whip out the mac as its x10000 better and more comfortable to use and natural to use. if i was watching a movie, yes id use the iPad.
Does it have the "power" to do general home user tasks, totally, but that doesnt make it the most suitable device to do so. i do think for older people who don't need the worry of a "computer" it makes a lot of sense.
YMMV.
MMDV (My mileage does vary). I do just that all the time with the IPP and the Apple SmartKeyboard. It sits just as well as a laptop does. Even better on my recliner sofa too.
Exactly, and considering the power the hardware has, apps will come out that will rival desktop class apps. It's just a matter of time. People need to recognize that the shift to tablets has happened before. Going from large centralized computers to PCs was similar. "They don't have the power to do real work." How long did it take for PCs to become the platform for computing in businesses. The same will happen to tablets, it's just a matter of time.