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yeah you’re right... alienate 25%+ of your potential market if you don’t like apples policies. It’s a no brainer choice!
Or alienate 75% of your potential market because you made some bad choices?
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Apple simply reached a critical mass, and have a single app source installation path, they need to get somewhat under control. I see even their forced device activation very critical. Anyway, it started with innovation, great, but slowly moved to unfair tactics, with shady tax circumventions, and devs & users bossing. And their marketing is so good, that most people simply can’t see the whole thing from within their fictive apple bubble bubble world.
....
Along with...some people don't understand the entirety of what is going on, in my opinion. This is a contentious subject...why I don't know? Perceived bias?
 
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I am with Apple, my store, my device, my rules. The only thing I am against them is not actually telling the consumer there are other options to subscribe for less.

Apple could avoid this mumbo jumbo by saying "paid apps are 30%, subscription apps are charged for hosting their apps on their icloud services" just like AWS.
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yeah you’re right... alienate 25%+ of your potential market if you don’t like apples policies. It’s a no brainer choice!

Its how businesses works world wide, guess what happens if you don't work with Walmart rules? Or Twitter's "freedom of speech" policies, or YouTube monetization program.
 
Really people? I'm willing to pay for quality and security if the developers want to pass that cost to me. It's like a sales tax. You want an open ecosystem, then Android is there, arms wide open ... it's got the largest number of users anyway. Apple will go out of business if all the companies only put apps out to Android ... the markets will decide.

I see the cost similar to Xbox Live and Sony to play online multiplayer games. There's an ongoing cost to ensure security and services. They could charge a flat fee per download, user, app update ... I'm just not sure if that is going to be any better for the developers if not more expensive.
 
Because once Apple sells the device Apple no longer owns it. So why can't the device owner load whatever software they want? Simple to understand really.

You can load whatever you want. But only if you can figure out how. If you have source code, and know how to build it, you can use Xcode and an Apple ID to load whatever you want. If you don't know how, Apple isn't required to tell you how. You get to figure it out, just like the jailbreak community occasionally does. Simple to understand really.
 
Because once Apple sells the device Apple no longer owns it. So why can't the device owner load whatever software they want? Simple to understand really.

It's like buying a car and only being able to drive it to certain businesses.

Because they don’t own the software on it. They have merely licensed it from Apple. I believe it’s covered in the TOS somewhere.

So it’s like walking into a french restaurant and complaining that they don’t serve Japanese food. People want what Apple can’t and won’t offer.

I see it more as by buying an iPhone, you have already made a choice (be it conscious or unconscious) to buy into the Apple ecosystem and their way of doing things. Which amongst other things, means trusting Apple to make the right decisions for their users.

And I continue to believe that Apple’s policies result in the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of users.
 
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Apple simply reached a critical mass
So what Apple should strive to do is just be less successful. I mean, apparently they lucked up on the perfect storm of conditions that eventually drove people to purchase their products! I think they should raise the rate to 80% and that should drop them right back down into the area where no one cares. Genius!
And congress should help developers go this route by enabling alternative app stores for both iOS and Android
Why doesn’t congress mandate an alternate platform altogether? Bring together the brightest minds that don’t like the 30% cut (there’s apparently a lot of them) and fund them to create a phone platform to compete against Apple.
 
Because once Apple sells the device Apple no longer owns it. So why can't the device owner load whatever software they want? Simple to understand really.

It's like buying a car and only being able to drive it to certain businesses.

Why can't I do this with the Playstation or Xbox? I cannot browse to a website on those consoles and just download software.
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Let people sideload apps like Android. Problem solved. If someone installs an app that isn't done through Apple, then they assume the risk for payment/data breaches.

Where does it end then? Can I create a program, release it on my website, and someone with an Xbox or Playstation can download it? No. So they also need to change Xbox and Playstation. It would be fair. Unless people here are just mad at Apple because its Apple.
 
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If you need to reach customers who happen to use an Apple device, you are forced to go through the App Store.

No you don’t. Web apps.
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Because once Apple sells the device Apple no longer owns it. So why can't the device owner load whatever software they want? Simple to understand really.

It's like buying a car and only being able to drive it to certain businesses.

Hardware device, yes; the operating system software you never own; you’re granted a license to use it. Read the Ts&Cs.

Therefore the software license extends to the App Store. Also note that no one ever “buys” an app; you’re buying a license to use the app. The copyright never transfers to you.
 
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So what Apple should strive to do is just be less successful. I mean, apparently they lucked up on the perfect storm of conditions that eventually drove people to purchase their products! I think they should raise the rate to 80% and that should drop them right back down into the area where no one cares. Genius!

Why doesn’t congress mandate an alternate platform altogether? Bring together the brightest minds that don’t like the 30% cut (there’s apparently a lot of them) and fund them to create a phone platform to compete against Apple.

Yes, this is proving to be a case where businesses can be successful, but not TOO much. Doesn't that seem bad?
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If you need to reach customers who happen to use an Apple device, you are forced to go through the App Store.

Uh, what's the alternative? How would my Grandma find your Sudoku app if its on another App Store? If its on Apple's its immediately discoverable. My Grandma doesn't have to go looking for it, or install some other App Store to find it.
 
Then explain why Netflix and Amazon get special exemptions but the small guys can’t.

It's because business ain't a liberal democracy, enforced equality is not a thing, and everyone gets a deal they are strong enough to negotiate
 
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Then explain why Netflix and Amazon get special exemptions but the small guys can’t.

Explain why video game streaming services aren’t allowed into the App Store (Xcloud) or had to fight for over a year to get in (Steam).
Exactly. If it weren't for this, I'd say what they're doing is all fair game. Apple made a market and great tools for devs. Don't like it, there's always the web. The exemptions for certain devs seems very wrong, but maybe only because they're dishonest about it.
 
Real life however has bills and monthly payments that need to be taken care of and people can't just quit. Apple has a lot of people by the balls.

I agree that the ‘just quit’ argument isn’t realistic, but before you talk about Apple having people by the balls, you may want to take into consideration that the percentage that Apple charges hasn’t increased since the App Store started.
 
The solution the whole mess is to allow apps outside of the Apple App Store. Then the monopoly goes away. It does not hurt Apple and if people want to take the risk outside of Apple's nanny rules they can. Everyone is happy.
Allowing apps outside the App Store compromises security not to mention allowing for abuse.
 
Apple is not stupid enough to lie about these things as the truth get out. My take is the exemptions are not understand by those criticizing Apple. I don't understand every single nuance.
I've watched carefully because I've been an iOS dev at times. If I remember correctly, they altered the rules in seemingly arbitrary ways such that those few could be exempted. In some cases they even straight up broke the rules, like with Hey. But Spotify, a major competitor, never got a break. New apps that seem totally allowed to use out-of-app payment methods might still face roadblocks, as if there are unwritten rules too, which a client of mine is dealing with right now.

It's hard for me to back this up because I can't even find the often-cited rule about subscription "reader" apps on Apple's site, so The Verge is the best I can find, and their arguments are more full-fledged than mine. Something like this needs better transparency.

Back in high school, we had homework to read up on the US sugar trade laws. The point was that they didn't make any sense, which hinted at how much they were bent by corporate lobbying over the decades.
 
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A possible solution is to allow apps to be installed from outside of the app store and do some on-device scanning of the binary-to-be-installed to see if it looks suspicious.

But what happens if you pay for an app and then the on-device scan finds something suspicious?
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Why doesn’t congress mandate an alternate platform altogether? Bring together the brightest minds that don’t like the 30% cut (there’s apparently a lot of them) and fund them to create a phone platform to compete against Apple.

Imagine the backdoors in that OS!
 
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No you don’t. Web apps.
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Hardware device, yes; the operating system software you never own; you’re granted a license to use it. Read the Ts&Cs.

Therefore the software license extends to the App Store. Also note that no one ever “buys” an app; you’re buying a license to use the app. The copyright never transfers to you.

Copyright has nothing to do with it. You can resell physical books or CDs. That doesn’t mean you own the copyright to them. Copyright has to do with reproducing and selling copies.

Also, just because something is in the EULA doesn’t mean it is legal or will hold up if challenged in court. Corporate lawyers will put anything in those things because normal people don’t have the funds or desire to challenge them.
 
Because once Apple sells the device Apple no longer owns it. So why can't the device owner load whatever software they want? Simple to understand really.

It's like buying a car and only being able to drive it to certain businesses.

maybe because the core software running the device Apple owns the rights to outright and by owning the device the agreement between the owner and Apple is that the core OS is on loan for free while Apple maintains it ;)
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Developers thinking Apple n Android one a duopoly on App Store market, please. The consumers by their choices created the duopoly

- Windows Mobile, Symbian, and others simply was not up to the task and all those OS died off.
 
Because at the level of industrial and technological magnitude companies like Apple operate things are different than hotel rooms and individual jobs. There was a bit of news a while back about a penalty of around $1 billion that Apple had to pay because it did not sell as many phones as it thought it would an it could not collect the volume of displays agreed in the contract with the supplier. Instead of just taking the displays and storing them someplace until needed, Apple decided to pay that much money. Would a mom and pop store do that with a certain product that does not sell as expected?

Samsung is one of the main (if not the main) rivals of Apple and yet Samsung sells parts to Apple. Does that make sense at the level that the average people work an live? If you would fix cars for a living would you borrow tools to your bitter rival?

In theory all developers could stop and Apple would suddenly be in a lot of trouble. Real life however has bills and monthly payments that need to be taken care of and people can't just quit. Apple has a lot of people by the balls. Including customers because migrating to Android (or the other way around) is not that easy if you depend on certain apps or features.

Saying that if you don't like it you should do your own thing is like saying that if you don't like working for/with Amazon you should open you own store.
Well... that's what the guy who started Amazon did, so yeah I'd say that's a pretty good option.
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Apple simply reached a critical mass, and have a single app source installation path, they need to get somewhat under control. I see even their forced device activation very critical. Anyway, it started with innovation, great, but slowly moved to unfair tactics, with shady tax circumventions, and devs & users bossing. And their marketing is so good, that most people simply can’t see the whole thing from within their fictive apple bubble bubble world.

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If you're talking about the App Store, it started with a 30% cut going to Apple, and it's still a 30% cut going to Apple.
 
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Here's what I don't get. If you don't like the business deal one person offers, you do business with another person instead. If you don't like the price of a hotel, you choose another hotel. If you don't like the wages from your job, you hustle and get a promotion or get another job that pays more. So why does that logic suddenly disappear when it comes to (some) app developers? Apple forces absolutely no one to use their app store or their ecosystem. If you don't like Apple's percentages, don't publish your apps on the App Store. It's simple.
Yeah, and where else are developers supposed to publish them??
 
Imagine the backdoors in that OS!
But the developer cut would be 100%! Or maybe, since it’s the government, they’d just pay anyone who developed an app, it doesn’t have to be good, just put it on the store and the developers would... rejoice? I don’t know, in my mind that’s better than “You’ve created this great thing that a LOT of people are using now based on what you put in place a long time ago. But, now we’re going to tell you how to run your business...
From the people who brought you healthcare.gov
... remember us? The folks that did healthcare.gov? Yeah, we’re like WAY better than you at knowing how to run a business, so...”
 
No you don’t. Web apps.
I actually do like the idea of Web apps these days. Most of the corporate productivity ERM functions used at small to mid-sized companies are run using web-based applications these days rather than locally installed software, which has allowed them access to enterprise level tools without the previously prerequisite level of investment - i.e. leveled the playing field on that front. It eliminates a lot of the problems that the App Store was created to solve. Software updates is a big one. If we all recall, this was Steve Jobs original vision for iPhone apps, he was pushing this. When iPhone launched, there was no App Store. Apple wanted Devs to make web apps!

In the mobile space though, as it is today, would a web-app be able to access all the hardware capabilities of the device as an App Store distributed and locally installed piece of software? Could it be curated properly? How would app discovery work? The App Store in general has been such a boon to Developers the last almost 15 years, that they have lost sight of what the software distribution landscape looked like back then, mobile or otherwise. On an iPhone, if the consumer hears about your app, they know exactly where to go to get it and try it out. That alone should be worth 30%. Again, before the app store, would anyone venture to guess what the developer actually got to take home after signing with a software publishing company? It was a lot less than 70% of the revenues, I can tell you that! Today, for an investment of $99 a year and your time, a one-man software outfit can release an app that is instantly distributed to a store front that is easily accessible to BILLIONS of potential users. I honestly think that devs have nothing to complain about as far as the 30% cut is concerned.

Fortnite, for example, can go cry me a river - how many $$BILLIONS did they make in a day on launch?
Hardware device, yes; the operating system software you never own; you’re granted a license to use it. Read the Ts&Cs.

Therefore the software license extends to the App Store. Also note that no one ever “buys” an app; you’re buying a license to use the app. The copyright never transfers to you.
Yes, but this is the case for all non-open-source software, not even just OS’s. Desktop, mobile or otherwise, you can’t touch or modify the source code, redistribute, or even use on a machine you haven’t applied your license to, etc etc. I don’t think this is even a relevant part of the equation for what this is about.
Exactly. If it weren't for this, I'd say what they're doing is all fair game. Apple made a market and great tools for devs. Don't like it, there's always the web. The exemptions for certain devs seems very wrong, but maybe only because they're dishonest about it.
This is for me the lesser of the two main issues. Level playing field is great and all, but when I look at it, and am happy to be corrected, I see there being two main perspectives at play here. The first one is apps/services that became popular outside the App Store, independently of Apple - i.e. Netflix, et al. The second one is apps that began their life on the App Store and owe their popularity to that fact, i.e. Candy Crush, et el.

Now it is not nearly black and white with all of this either, I don’t think anyone is naive enough to believe that. There are other reason for Apple to make exceptions. A big consideration is mutual benefit. Apple benefits enough from having services like Netflix available as a native app on its platform that it is willing to make exceptions for such services/apps. For these apps/games/services that can bring a big enough user base and user benefit to the table, they can use that as a negotiating tool. There is nothing inherently wrong with this, it is how business works. Apple is not being dishonest about this, Schiller doesn’t deny it, but they aren’t and shouldn’t be compelled to come out with a PR to the AP with the terms of their negotiated agreements with everyone they make a deal with either. So when I look at it, this sort of behavior shouldn’t be seen as shady or incorrect, let alone illegal.

The greater of the two main issues I see here is the preferential treatment of their own, in-house apps over 3rd party alternatives. Here is where I feel the real legitimate beef is. Competing services like email clients, browsers, maps and navigation, music & video streaming, should all be treated the same way as Flappy Bird. They should all be allowed access to the entire capabilities of the device/OS they are developed to run on and should be given equal status to Apple’s 1st party apps and services, and be allowed to be chosen as the default for those functions. Apple should not be allowed to suppress these apps from being seen in an effort to promote their own or anybody else‘s software, and they should not be allowed to engage in anti-competitive practices to otherwise discourage an app or service from success. They also should not be allowed to put any anti-competitive clauses in their developer agreement for the App Store, such as not being allowed to distribute an app that compete’s against an Apple core application, etc. (Core OS functionality though shouldn’t be applicable here, like an alternative to FaceID for example is an OS level function, not a separate app. If you have to click on an app icon for anything other than convenience - i.e. device settings - it isn’t part of the OS core functionality)
 
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