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The solution the whole mess is to allow apps outside of the Apple App Store. Then the monopoly goes away. It does not hurt Apple and if people want to take the risk outside of Apple's nanny rules they can. Everyone is happy.
Then you have Android, freedom, anarchy, malware, chaos. You can't have one without the other. Apple's oppressive control of the App Store is also what keeps the iOS experience mostly secure, mostly reasonably simple. Android is awesome, but if you want to see what things become like if you allow side-loading apps on iPhones, look no further than Android. I think both alternatives need to exist for users, one totally open, free, customizable, but full of risks, and one that is curated and locked-down. Making iOS just like Android would be a loss to the public, not just Apple.
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If you need to reach customers who happen to use an Apple device, you are forced to go through the App Store.
But you have freedom to reach customers who use Android devices, and use the MS App Store. iPhones are not a monopoly; most of the phones in the world are Android. But there needs to be an alternative for users where the app experience is curated - that is the App Store. It would be a terrible loss, with unintended consequences, to allow multiple app stores on iOS - it would be come 'free' and 'open' like Android, but also unsafe and chaotic. My 91 year old mother has an iPhone and iPad, and I feel comfortable supporting her - I would not give her an Android device, even though I have one myself (in addition to iOS devices). Each approach has pros and cons, and the answer is not to to lose the things that make iOS special, and one of those is the rigidly controlled, Apple-curated App Store.
 
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No you don’t. Web apps.
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Hardware device, yes; the operating system software you never own; you’re granted a license to use it. Read the Ts&Cs.

Therefore the software license extends to the App Store. Also note that no one ever “buys” an app; you’re buying a license to use the app. The copyright never transfers to you.
Yes you’re right, but in this case the hardware worth nothing without the OS, we can‘t search for alternatives for this hardware, and thats a huge issue. We need world wide regulations by law for this, too. If all continues line that, the humanity will drive into a road with no return. This is not a Apple only issue! Same for right to repair...
 
We need world wide regulations by law for this, too.

Sure, MORE laws, maybe let’s go ahead and start an UN Commission On Mobile Apps, or just right away introduce communism and nationalise Apple.

Customers have the right to complain and to never buy a company’s product again, that’s how these things are influenced. Using politicians and regulators to influence business, we had that in Poland for 50 years, didn’t work so well.
 
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BTW, why is Schiller, a man with ZERO Software Development experience & ZERO experience running a Software Company, running the App Store ???
...
What are you talking about?
Even though his Bachelor’s degree is in Biology from Boston University, he has a background as a programmer and systems analyst in addition to his almost thirty years of marketing and management experience.

Phil Schiller went very quickly from biology into technology, though. Shortly after leaving college, he became a programmer and systems analyst for the Massachusetts General Hospital. In 1985, he became an IT Manager for Nolan Norton & Co, then a management consulting firm in Lexington, Massachusetts.
I thought this was common knowledge around here?
 
It's not my job to educate you, but here is an example from just the last week.



The core was reserved for everyone, including Sony games. Operating system improvements meant it could be unlocked for everyone, including Sony games. At no point does Sony give their first parties extra hardware features but restrict them from third parties.



My example literally pointed out that the rules and limitations can change after the fact.
Tile right now is about the only talking point and it became a talking point due to additional privacy features built into IOS. And there is no right and good answer at this point for this. Because with unrestricted access to location, some app will cause an issue and Apple will be blamed.

As far as rules being tweaked along the way, yep. The App store covers a broad array of categories and the rules are amended as needed on a going forward basis.
 
But what happens if you pay for an app and then the on-device scan finds something suspicious?
Well, that would be against the interests of the developers of the app you bought. If that does happen, then you should contact the company who sold it to you, just like with anything else. If you buy a product on an online store and there is something wrong with it, you get in contact with the seller to resolve the issue.

I do not see this scenario as being relevant to this discussion.
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Scanning outside wouldn't cover a lot of basis if Apple is interested in handling privacy, security, etc. This simply would not work. Only solution from a legal stance would be to cut your phone/device off from the App store and iCloud, etc.
It depends. iOS has quite solid SDKs and apps are sandboxed. There will always be an inherent risk factor when installing an app outside of the app store. As long as an externally installed app is not able to access information that apps on the app store are able to access, I do not see the problem. The one thing that could prove problematic might be the uploading of device identifiers and other info to a remote server as I know for a fact that the app store does scan for these types of behaviours upon submission to the app store.
 
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A response to some of the common Apple-opposing views.

I frequently see this kind of argument presented and it always baffles me how anyone still thinks it's in any way valid. I'll even use your own example to show how dumb it is.

"If you don't like the price of a hotel, you choose another hotel".

Ok, what if there are only two hotels in existence?
Well, this is the reality of a free-market economy. The laws of supply and demand sets the prices of goods and services. Even with fewer choices, customers will still make decisions on whether or not to pay for a good or service. The idea is that if the service is necessary or desired enough at the price point offered, customers will pay for the service and the business will survive. If the business does not adjust to the preferences of the customers, they will likely go out of business eventually.

(Technically, America is not a perfect free-market economy, but no real economy is; all economies are a mix of free-market and command economy, meaning there is some form of government price controls in place. The only perfect free-market economy is a hypothetical one.)
Source: https://www.thebalance.com/america-is-not-really-a-free-market-economy-3980689

What if both charge the same price and both discriminate identically about who is allowed in their hotel?
If they charge the same price, then customers will make a decision based on another factor. The laws of supply and demand still hold.

Regarding discrimination, I am not a legal expert, but after a quick google search I learned that "the right to refuse service" in restaurants are limited by government anti-discrimination laws to prevent businesses from discriminating against protected classes. Protected classes include:
  • Race or color
  • National origin or citizenship status
  • Religion or creed
  • Sex
  • Age
  • Disability, pregnancy, or genetic information
  • Veteran status
Some states have extended protected class lists, like California for example.

If a business deems a customer disruptive or potentially problematic for reasons apart from discriminating against a protected class, they can refuse the customer service. It makes sense then that tech companies can accept or refuse developers for any reason aside from the above illegal forms of discrimination.

Not all discrimination is wrong. For example, NASA doesn't allow people with certain heart conditions to become astronauts. Also, business get to choose from an applicant pool when looking to hire a new employee. There are practical reasons for this. Does this mean that we should force NASA and all business to accept everyone for any reason on the basis of equality?

If someone with more legal experience can chime in, that would be very beneficial to the discussion because my point is a hypothetical.
Source: https://www.mydoorsign.com/blog/right-to-refuse-service-to-anyone/



What if the cost of building a hotel to compete against this duopoly is so enormous that even the biggest possible potential competitor in the industry with tens of billions of dollars at its disposal gives up trying to because it's impossible to disrupt (Microsoft)?
Was it truly impossible to disrupt? Microsoft entered the market with Windows Phone and competed with Android phones and iPhones, but consumers didn't like Windows Phone and bought Android phones and iPhones instead. What we saw was the outcome of consumer choice.

"JusT cHooSe AnotHer hOTeL".

Brilliant. Same as "just build your own app store." "Just build your own internet infrastructure".

There's a point beyond which this is not a valid argument. Apple and Google's duopoly control of 99.9% of the mobile ecosystem IS this point.
Yes, maybe there isn't a third choice, but that's life, isn't it?


I don't care how much money they invested in it, how much it costs them to maintain it, etc. Irrelevant. At a certain point, you're too powerful to be allowed continue the way you are.
Maybe we can feel this way, but it's not up to us, right?


Apple make more than enough money to drop their commissions by at least half and still be enormously profitable. And if they want to act as gatekeepers and decide who gets to have an app in their store, they need to be forced to allow anyone to publish as long as the app isn't breaking the laws of the land (not the subjective laws of their own app store) or, enable people to install an app on their iPhone from outside the app store and still access all native OS features like push notifications, sensors, etc.
But being gatekeepers is not against the laws of the land. Again, not illegal and not up to us.

Hotels are not vital to the economy, or indeed society at large.
Hotels are actually pretty important; maybe not so much anymore for the individual, but definitely for businesses. AWS hosts some 5 day conferences with as many as 60,000 attendees. AWS may be the largest, but they're not alone. Also from a consumer standpoint, consumer product launches would be impossible if not for hotels for all the press, etc.


Companies are supposed to serve people.
While this would be fantastic and probably solve a lot of problems we have in society today, this is not the case.

Contrary to popular belief, corporations are not required by law to increase shareholder value, but can exist for any lawful purpose. This includes maximizing profit or maximizing societal benefit - whatever the directors (people in charge, not the title "Director") of the company desire.

Here's a link to some very interesting readings from Cornell Law School titled "Common Misunderstandings about Corporations": https://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/a...mmon-Misunderstandings-About-Corporations.cfm
And a link to the article that directly addresses the issue, titled, "The Problem of Corporate Purpose": https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Stout_Corporate-Issues.pdf



Antitrust laws are way out of my depth and the Microsoft case was barely within my lifetime, so I'll just leave this here.
Microsoft antitrust case summary: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/microsoft-antitrust.asp
But from what I can tell, Apple hasn't broken any antitrust laws.
-Setting a "high" 30% commission is not anticompetitive, nor is Apple legally obligated to lower it to help people. As always, you are entitled to believe otherwise.

"As we were talking to some of the biggest game developers, for example, Minecraft, they said, 'I totally get why you want the user to be able to pay for it on device. But we have a lot of users coming who bought their subscription or their account somewhere else - on an Xbox, on a PC, on the web. And it's a big barrier to getting onto your store,'" Schiller said. "So we created this exception to our own rule."
-Referencing the above quote: Regarding Apple's decision to make an exception for Minecraft, it definitely seems reasonable. It's Apple's store, they can make their own rules.

-Many have mentioned that there being only one App Store and therefore one way to get your app onto the iOS platform constitutes anti-competition. However, this is the definition of competition: "Competition is the rivalry between companies selling similar products and services."
Source: https://study.com/academy/lesson/what-is-competition-in-marketing-definition-types-quiz.html
In the smartphone product category, every Android manufacturer is competing against Apple because they all make smartphones. That's a lot of competition.
In the app category, developers on the App store are competing against each other.
Developers are only competing against Apple in the app categories that Apple makes apps for, but said developers' complaints have not been about competition.
Conclusion: Apple's app store policies cannot be legally considered anti-competitive because the policies are not geared towards other smartphone manufacturers, but towards developers - the majority of which have apps in categories which Apple does not have a competing offering.


In theory all developers could stop and Apple would suddenly be in a lot of trouble. Real life however has bills and monthly payments that need to be taken care of and people can't just quit. Apple has a lot of people by the balls. Including customers because migrating to Android (or the other way around) is not that easy if you depend on certain apps or features.
But people CAN just quit. Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying it's not a stressful situation, but everyone deals with a similar situation - who knows at what moment in our lives something could happen and we could fall on financial hardship? Why is it Apple's fault or responsibility?

Saying that if you don't like it you should do your own thing is like saying that if you don't like working for/with Amazon you should open you own store.
It's an option. Many successful businesses were started because the founder(s) didn't like what was available on the market. Perhaps even Apple can be considered one of them.

In Summary: Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are just that - opinions. We live in a world where opinions are not reality. Opinions also don't hold up at all in a legal setting, and when we do a casual review of what the various laws and definitions do cover, Apple isn't doing anything illegal or wrong. Many users have also expressed that Apple's policies allow peace of mind and a better experience compared to Android. We will see what happens as the hearings unfold.
 
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I think its ironic that Apple was mad at Qualcomm for taking "unfair" royalties for developments "they have nothing to do with" but charging 30% of online sales for a product they had nothing to do with. Something as simple to support as software downloads or even simpler, monthly subscriptions shouldn't have to give up a partner's share of the profits.
 
I think its ironic that Apple was mad at Qualcomm for taking "unfair" royalties for developments "they have nothing to do with" but charging 30% of online sales for a product they had nothing to do with. Something as simple to support as software downloads or even simpler, monthly subscriptions shouldn't have to give up a partner's share of the profits.
The two scenarios are different. With the Qualcomm case either it was a FRAND issue or double dipping..I can't remember. With the app store the 30% is a reasonable cut for providing promotion, distribution, money collection and accounting services. Until it isn't the app store is the distribution mechanism for ios apps. Or the developer can provide a netflix like functionality and make the app a reader app.
 
It's not my job to educate you, but here is an example from just the last week.

1. So you're essentially saying "you're wrong but you figure out why I'm saying it". That's an extremely stupid thing to say since there could be any number of reasons why you think that.
2. That article is saying Apple is making it harder for users to enable always on location, but it's entirely possible to do so. This doesn't jive with your "prevent you from using all of the hardware functionality" as it's still entirely possible to do it.
3. And then it tries to explain AirTags will have unfair advantage but that product isn't out yet. Combine that with the fact iOS 14 includes FindMy support for Tile makes your point is moot.


A better example to argue your side (can't believe I have to educate you on this) would have been NFC. Apple Pay is the only service you can use while other services like Google Pay can't be used.


This is the exact reason why you need to point to specific examples so I can explain why your point makes no sense.


The core was reserved for everyone, including Sony games. Operating system improvements meant it could be unlocked for everyone, including Sony games. At no point does Sony give their first parties extra hardware features but restrict them from third parties.



My example literally pointed out that the rules and limitations can change after the fact.

Sony's first party studios like Naughty Dog houses Sony's ICE team which handles low level graphics and builds out APIs for the rest of Playstation developers. They literally design and optimize the API that deals with CPU, GPU, and memory communication. This allows them to make far better looking games than the rest of the games on the platform at least for a few years until third party devs get their hands on the newest SDK.

Going back to the cores example, Naughty Dog gets a headstart before everyone else in developing their games with the extra core in mind since they're the ones that implement the API to allow the extra core while the rest of the developers had no clue if that extra core was going to be made available. And once you're halfway through the game engine dev, it's difficult to add extra core support. Considering game dev takes multiple years, this is a huge advantage that Sony's game studios have over third party studios.
 
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I frequently see this kind of argument presented and it always baffles me how anyone still thinks it's in any way valid. I'll even use your own example to show how dumb it is.

"If you don't like the price of a hotel, you choose another hotel".

Ok, what if there are only two hotels in existence? What if both charge the same price and both discriminate identically about who is allowed in their hotel? What if the cost of building a hotel to compete against this duopoly is so enormous that even the biggest possible potential competitor in the industry with tens of billions of dollars at its disposal gives up trying to because it's impossible to disrupt (Microsoft)?

"JusT cHooSe AnotHer hOTeL".

Brilliant. Same as "just build your own app store." "Just build your own internet infrastructure".

There's a point beyond which this is not a valid argument. Apple and Google's duopoly control of 99.9% of the mobile ecosystem IS this point.

I don't care how much money they invested in it, how much it costs them to maintain it, etc. Irrelevant. At a certain point, you're too powerful to be allowed continue the way you are. Apple make more than enough money to drop their commissions by at least half and still be enormously profitable. And if they want to act as gatekeepers and decide who gets to have an app in their store, they need to be forced to allow anyone to publish as long as the app isn't breaking the laws of the land (not the subjective laws of their own app store) or, enable people to install an app on their iPhone from outside the app store and still access all native OS features like push notifications, sensors, etc.

Hotels are not vital to the economy, or indeed society at large. Smartphones are, and at this point, the duopoly operating systems and their respective app stores are so vital to the functioning of a giant slice of the economy, that for them to close down would be absolutely devastating. Too big to fail doesn't even come close. We're way beyond that point. Comparing the App store and Play store to a hotel is so ludicrous that I can't believe anyone actually thinks they could fool people into thinking they are remotely equivalent.

When a company gets too powerful it should be broken up or regulated. Companies are supposed to serve people. The moment they become too big to fail, or too powerful to compete against, the government should intervene. At this point, iOS and Android are so important to modern life that I think the government should actually take an ownership stake in them. If that's too "un-American" for some hardcore capitalists then at least enact some other mechanism that puts some control or major oversight on them. Anti-trust legislation that forces them to open up would be a start, but it should really go much further. We don't have to go full China and do what they do with their tech behemoths, but we have to do something.

There's a world of difference between some Mom 'n' Pop business and these multinational tech giants. To think of them as merely "businesses" you can choose to deal with or not is beyond naive.

These arguments (all of them not just this one) are filled with far to many nest what-if statements.
 
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I didn't say that at all. You seem to be reinterpreting my comments as what you decide I'm "essentially saying", so you can argue against that (or call it stupid) instead.

In any case, there's no reason to be disrespectful.

You are literally describing your earlier behavior. Saying "It's not my job to educate you" is disrespectful as it's a gross mischaracterization of my earlier comment and it's mocking my knowledge surrounding this subject.

Seeing as how you're trying to push this discussion away from the topic on hand about the App Store, sounds like the discussion is over so I won't continuing this discussion with you anymore.
 
Because once Apple sells the device Apple no longer owns it. So why can't the device owner load whatever software they want? Simple to understand really.

It's like buying a car and only being able to drive it to certain businesses.
No one tells the companies selling their apps on the Apple AppStore so why shoud the government or anyone else tell Apple what they should charge as a commission. 99% of these app developers would not exist if not for the Apple AppStore so they should be thanking Apple for the opportunity to have such a large platform to sell their apps on. The app developers accuse Apple of being greedy and unfair. I think the opposite is true.
 
While this would be fantastic and probably solve a lot of problems we have in society today, this is not the case.

Contrary to popular belief, corporations are not required by law to increase shareholder value, but can exist for any lawful purpose. This includes maximizing profit or maximizing societal benefit - whatever the directors (people in charge, not the title "Director") of the company desire.

Here's a link to some very interesting readings from Cornell Law School titled "Common Misunderstandings about Corporations": https://www.lawschool.cornell.edu/a...mmon-Misunderstandings-About-Corporations.cfm
And a link to the article that directly addresses the issue, titled, "The Problem of Corporate Purpose": https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Stout_Corporate-Issues.pdf

I knew when I posted the statement that "companies are supposed to serve people" that it would be misinterpreted in this way. I am well aware of the legal responsibilities of companies and their obligations, but you are you analyzing their responsibilities after the fact. A corporation is something people (via government) granted to enable them to operate in society. But the fundamental reason for doing so in the first place was because it was determined that this would serve us. Once this ceases to be the case, it is reasonable to withdraw these legal protections and frameworks granted to them. To withdraw their very existence. A corporation is after all only something that exists in law. It isn't an entity in the way a person is.

Fundamentally, a corporation IS supposed to benefit and serve the people, despite what the company directors or cornell law school may claim. Viewing themselves through the narrow, after the fact lens of currently existing law, sure, there's no requirement for them to do so. But the underlying philosophy that granted their existence in the first place, did so on the assumption that this granting would fundamentally benefit society.
 
Let people sideload apps like Android. Problem solved. If someone installs an app that isn't done through Apple, then they assume the risk for payment/data breaches.
As as IOS user I would love this more than anything, I am using a piss poor GBA clone that runs through a browser. It would never make it to the App Store. Let me decide to take the risk on the third party version thats someone makes but isn't available in the App Store.
 
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