Phil Schiller: Apple Will Not Change Decision on 'Hey' Email App, No App Store Rule Updates Imminent

[johnnytravels]

Here’s the thing. Apple is paying for the servers that process the in-app payment, the credit card processing, handling all the charge disputes and chargebacks/fraud requests from the credit card company, etc.

That’s not a $0 Bill for Apple. Credit card chargebacks cost businesses a significant amount of money, as well as employing the iTunes App Store support agents, data center infrastructure, they designed and built Xcode, add new features to iOS that enable new features in the apps, handle push notifications, etc.

And the yearly developer fee of $99 in no way covers all of that. So they have to take a cut somewhere.

What if there was a way to relief Apple from the hard work of having to process all those payment fees.
Apps that are completely free get Xcode, curation, and the iOS platform at no extra cost. Whether it’s a free game from a small developer or say, the Amazon Kindle/Music/Alexa/Shopping app...

 

[fairuz]

Apple's exemption isn't for "reader" apps. It's for big apps they can't afford to remove from the store.
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And the yearly developer fee of $99 in no way covers all of that. So they have to take a cut somewhere.

It actually might. Either way, the 30% tax is way more than the hosting cost. I'd maybe be ok with it all since competing platforms do exist, and Apple built this one, but they don't apply the same rules to all developers.

 

[Abazigal]

What if there was a way to relief Apple from the hard work of having to process all those payment fees.
Apps that are completely free get Xcode, curation, and the iOS platform at no extra cost. Whether it’s a free game from a small developer or say, the Amazon Kindle/Music/Alexa/Shopping app...

What if I said I had no desire to use anything else other than iTunes billing to purchase apps?

 

[Abazigal]

Then why did the app get approved just days before?

Apple has already come on record saying that they made a mistake and that the app should never have been approved in the first place.

 

[fairuz]

What if I said I had no desire to use anything else other than iTunes billing to purchase apps?

As long as other people do, it'll force them not to charge excessive fees for the iTunes billing.

 

[dwaite]

Really? Then how come the Fastmail app is not required to offer in-app purchases?

Almost certainly because Fastmail took one of Apple's proposed alternatives to in-app purchases, rather than trying to get an exception for themselves by going to the court of public opinion.

My suspicion is that it is because Apple has an exception for when the user can get an account which they don't have to pay for. That could be a free tier (like say the Gmail app) or a business tier (employer supplies the account).

Phil Shiller states that they proposed as much as one of the alternatives to Hey.
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I believe Microsoft's Office apps also get their arbitrary exception, and you can certainly compose and create content with those.

Microsoft does not. You can purchase an Office 365 subscription via In-App purchase.

Microsoft might have negotiated a lower billing tier, such as starting at 15% rather than 30% for the first year - I heard indirect that Netflix's in-app subscription had a lower negotiated rate, but nothing I was ever able to reliably source.

It is also worth noting that Amazon Prime's new support for pre-existing accounts was also not a special case in this regard - to have the Amazon account available for billing, they needed to allow people to subscribe to Prime and to purchase content an in-app purchase. (Amazon likely doesn't believe this will be a popular option)

 

[theotherphil]

How would charging $0.99 bring it into compliance? Still would be required to offer an IAP.. Still not allowed to put a link in their app directing to Hey’s website.

The issue is it is lacking basic functionality out of the box which is a poor experience for users. A 1 week trial for free would be all that is needed along with a welcome email directing customers to the Hey website for further details.

Even easier is to add IMAP/ POP3 support so that Hey’s premium model is a subscription to email, not a subscription to the app, and will allow functionality out of the box for free with any email provider.

They could also make the app “read only” unless you purchase a subscription, allowing you to sign up, and sign in but only receive email, and not create. This is very similar to how MS do their Office suite.

Hey is providing NO basic functionality, NO ability to sign up and NO Free tier (it is currently invitation only).

Fastmail allow you to sign up to a free 30 day trial on their website and state on their App Store description that you need to already have a verified account before you can sign in.

Spotify and Netflix allow you to start a trial for free and then also send you a welcome email directing you to their site. Spotify also have a free tier, allowing basic functionality without a subscription.

 

[a m u n]

30% is the standard commission charged by any platform holder. I’m confused why it’s a problem with Apple when all other companies charge the same percentage.

 

[aaronhead14]

It's the other way round: app developers are the greedy ones by giving you a sub standard user experience in order to avoid paying a fair share to the store that they use to get in touch with you.

30% markup by the supply chain and store is little, very little. Yet there are those who feel they deserve 100% and will circumvent so much that they'd rather create unusable or hard to use apps in order bypass paying a fair share to the hand that feeds them.

Why do none of these apps have problems on Android then? The bad user experience regarding digital purchases in third party apps is clearly Apple's doing.

 

[RRZEurope]

Free??? As long as I can remember you have to have a PAID Developer Account to have Apps in the store?

and [..have not contributed any revenue to the App Store..] -> wouldn't that be the same for any free App which is perfectly fine?

 

[jonblatho]

30% is the standard commission charged by any platform holder. I’m confused why it’s a problem with Apple when all other companies charge the same percentage.

If you’d read any of the other 20 times this question has come up in this thread, it’s because developers are left with no viable option except to sell on the App Store for iOS apps. You can’t distribute your apps on your website and web apps aren’t feasible as a substitute because Apple deliberately drags their feet on making PWAs a reality on iOS.

Probably the clearest example of this is Safari push notifications. They’ve been supported on macOS since 2013. They’ve never been supported on iOS. Wonder why.

 

[theotherphil]

Nope. That used to be true, but now nearly all features are available for free, including editing. It was opened up about two years ago, thanks to competition from Google.

When do I need a Microsoft 365 subscription? - Microsoft Support

Learn when you'll need a Microsoft 365 subscription rather than the free Office apps for your mobile device.

support.microsoft.com

Wrong - to edit and save you need a subscription.


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Spotify allows you to create and share playlists. DropBox allows you to upload and share files.

Both of which have free tiers that have functionality out of the box. Hey is unusable without a subscription.

 

[konqerror]

Wrong - to edit and save you need a subscription.

This was explained in both the link and a previous post you didn't read.

 

[JamesMay82]

They aren’t any worse than Amazon who demand certain pricing or they will kick you off their platform. I wonder if their are bigger developers who can negotiate better deals

 

[nStyle]

Hey, maybe charging for email in 2020 is stupid

 

[pratikindia]

Apple is guilty here. Even Apple does have separate payment system for Apple Music for Android to skirt Google Play store cut.

 

[trusso]

I’ve been a Macintosh user since the early 90s, but I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Apple is exhibiting textbook narcissistic behavior in their treatment of customers and developers. They refuse to admit when they’re wrong, instill a learned helplessness and Stockholm syndrome upon many users and developers alike, and continue to be image-obsessed. Tim, Phil, and Eddy need to go. They can claim they’re simply following in Steve’s footsteps all the live-long day, but in too many respects they sucked the soul from Apple and left us with a hollow shell of problematic hardware, software and business practices.

 

[bluecoast]

I’m surprised that so many people on this thread are defending Apple.

I’m not a developer, just someone with an Apple ID and something isn’t right about all of this.

I’m old enough to remember when Microsoft were at their zenith and this feels the same. The arrogance, the ‘we built this, this is ours and it’s our way or the highway attitude’.

As I’ve said on another post on this thread, the only way to understand this is that iPhone sales started to slow 3 years or so ago and Apple see services as a way to plug the gap.

Squeezing every drop out of their services and existing ‘lock-in’ advantages is part of this.

So to get into arguments about various clauses in their App Store rules here and how they apply to Hey! is missing the overarching point.

This is using their dominance and applying a squeeze where they can - simply to meet Wall Street expectations and to get to that $2t valuation.

This isn’t about innovation or creating the best experience. This is purely numbers driven.

Apple execs - I don’t know if you realise how much like Microsoft c2000 that you’re becoming (you probably don’t, you likely feel indignant and self-righteous) but you need to stop this all right now.

 

[5883662]

99USD PER YEAR for an iOS email client? Who pays that?!

 

[bingeciren]

Give the user a free trial period first, then inform the user that if they subscribe through their website the subscription price would be $99 as opposed to $130 of the app store.

 

[bluecoast]

Also: it’s kinda pitiful reading the responses from many prominent Apple bloggers and journos who owe their careers/livelihoods to access to Apple execs and review hardware.

They’re towing the line now that Phil S has spoken, presumably fearing that any further criticism from them on this issue will be be seen as a direct attact on a powerful figure within Apple - with consequences for them.

That’s not what journalism is meant to be.

EDIT: typos.

 

[canadianreader]

So why is Netflix, Spotify, etc on the App Store then? Explain that one Phil!

He can't and he won't. Most people side with big corporations against the small guy. Tech corporations have become too large and small businesses are being crushed.

 

[fairuz]

30% is the standard commission charged by any platform holder. I’m confused why it’s a problem with Apple when all other companies charge the same percentage.

The other ones let the apps process payments however they want, not just through the platform-specific system that takes a cut.

 

[RossGGG]

Hey is a free download, but it's a revenue stream for Hey. And since it's free on the App Store, Apple makes nothing, and Hey reaps the benefits. That's dumb. I am not on Hey's side.

What about all of the IOT "smart" products that companies make and sell for a profit? The requisite apps to use those products are hosted on Apple's store and can be downloaded for free, presumably reaping the benefits of Apple's infrastructure while all of the related revenue goes straight to the other company. In fact, most of those IOT apps could downloaded by curious Apple users only for them to find that they don't do anything until they go out and make a hardware purchase from another company. That doesn't seem much different than the situation Apple is claiming they want to avoid by denying the current Hey app from their store, but I don't think many sane people would argue that IOT companies should start giving Apple a 30% cut of their hardware sales if they want to put their app on the App Store...

 

[Wilderness-1902]

If Apple sold an i-Car, should my destination submit a location review before I could drive there?