Phil Schiller: Apple Working With Consumer Reports to Understand MacBook Pro Battery Test

[Deuce on the Clock]

Got it. You're OK with CR having zero responsibility in understanding how a laptop running their tests, under their protocols, and being monitored under their supervision returning a 1,000 hour battery lifetime. Because apparently that's within your realm of possibility?

And that even with a ridiculously high and impossible number from a computer doing real work and what was asked (web browsing, video playback, etc), you would still blame the laptop even though it was doing everything correctly; properly displaying web pages requested, playing videos properly etc.

Couldn't possibly be their tests, protocols, and supervision at fault, right?

And similarly, if CR tested a Ford F-150 eight cylinder truck that has an EPA mileage rating of 16 to 21 MPG, and instead they were getting 41 MPG (or 100 MPG) in some test runs, it couldn't possibly be their testing methodology?

Astonishing.

The 3-5 hour is more a concern than the high numbers. You're missing the point.

 

[Iconoclysm]

I hope there is a software issue Apple can fix.

However, the Bloomberg piece from a few days ago says that Apple was planning on using a sculpted battery with a higher capacity as seen in the 12" MacBook, but had to revert to a traditional design due to some fault. I stand by my belief that this was a misatake, and Apple should have delayed the product rather than implementing a smaller than designed-for battery.

Even though the Mac is only 10 percent of Apples business, it is clear it is no longer getting the same amount of attention from Apple it has historically. Which is disappointing. Apple can hire the talent to dedicate to Mac if they want to.

While I agree with you, it could be much worse - they could have released it as is with the fault like their competitor.

 

[idunn]

Critics, like iMore's Rene Ritchie, argue that inconsistent test results require more testing to ferret out whether the issue is easily fixable, like a Safari glitch.

Ritchie is a fanbois. Beyond that, Consumer Report's mandate is to test off-the-shelf products and provide an opinion, as in the present state of that offered for sale.

As far as further testing and diagnosis towards that "easily fixable," that is more the responsibility of someone like, oh, the manufacturer: Apple.

 

[blackberrycubed]

All apple needs to understand is that they did a crap refresh and they need to go back to drawing board and do better. But before that tim cook and phil schiller need to be fired and then jailed for being such *** ups.

 

[CorruptIntenz]

I agree with you . There is an art of responding , being positive and saying very little.

Case in example is the iPhone 6 bending. 9 users officially ...... I saw more than 9 just on MR, does not matter though, they decided to manipulate the data to choose those 9, which is fine, the real kick in the nuts though is Apple amends the design of the 6S to improve the strength of the chassis on purpose.....for those 9 users....no....the flaw was corrected. Apple does not increase the thickness of thier device for the first tile due to there being no issue.

If you have been with apple for a long time you will realise they never admit fault, give a positive spin on an issue, and the next version corrects the same issue. "These are not the droids you are looking for " and it words like a treat.......not on everyone though.

While I see through the BS, I respect them for it as well, its how you build a strong brand culture...if verging on religious at times

And you are correct no product is perfect, applies to all including Apple products , heck I own quite a few Apple Rev A products....perfect is a state of mind and shiny at times....
[doublepost=1482766104][/doublepost]

Apple wants £££. That is the consumer crowd. The "Pros" jumped a while ago, as large corporations moved off Apple. What is left behind is people deep inside the Apple ecosystem calling themselves "Pros" some for legitimate reasons, with no where to go. As Apple moves more and more away from computers each year, these folk are left stranded, not easy to jump ship when your whole ecosystem is built around Apple . Apple does not care about thier needs, they can change thier needs to meet apples products that are now days made for rhe consumer and max profits. Kudos to Apple the strategy is getting them record profits. No money in top tier specialised machines, generic office laptop or iMac rolls in rhe £££. It's why I expect the Mac mini and Mac Pro will be gone

I work for a large corporation and we use thousands of Macbook Pros...

 

[FreemanW]

CR is the gold standard. Ignore it at your peril, and that includes Apple Inc.

This almost gave me a chuckle.

A one-time purchase of CR was enlightening. I needed a vacuum cleaner. The more I researched, the less I KNEW. Cue lightbulb over head. Looked at CR computers and software reviews.

Wow, a bunch of people, some with knowledge, most without, posting stuff on the Internets.

Gold Standard for what? Fake News? People spending money to furnish bogus reviews? Someone looking to be a pretentious gate-keeper or create self-importance with their job? I can go to Newegg or Amazon for that.

 

[TitoC]

Not it all makes sense . . . Safari. Oh, Safari. For me, Chrome is a far superior browser. I used to love Safari, way back in the day when it wasn't this super-slow, bloated piece of battery killer. I was hoping that they would remedy it, but every time I try it again, it takes forever to start, freezes for a few seconds, then finally tries to do some work. And this is the same MO on all my desktop and laptop devices. Now this may not explain everything that is happening with the battery issues with MBPs, but it explains some things for me.

 

[paulh69]

Now all we get in the Mac line are excuses and justifications.

 

[triton100]

Can I ask a question .

I use my MacBook Pro to code, run multiple VMS, edit videos, encode etc etc . I'm am an employee of a huge media company, I don't call myself a "Pro user' . I look around and there are hundreds of us in a massive building ...it's a tool. I really don't grasp this "pro user" concept. Anyone using a computer to achieve thier job might as well call themselves a pro user.....can I do my job without a computer , no! Can I do my job faster with a more powerful computer , yes! So a pro user.

I think the term has stemmed from the concept of professional photographers, where people would use cameras as thier main tool to earn a living......well in such case every developer in the world is a "Professional user" though they will not claim it as such, they call themselves developers, specialising in tech stacks, and the computer is just a tool.

Hi, agreed I don't regard encoding video being a Pro user either ...

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

What the heck are you talking about? I've been shooting RAW exclusively on my 6D for four years using SD cards. And my 5D Mark IV also has an SD card slot. I shoot everything on both slots, but the CF card never leaves the camera, because the built-in SD card reader makes it so much easier to import the content into my laptop. The extra three minutes of importing caused by Apple's ancient UHS-I reader is still less time than it would take to dig a standalone UHS-II or CF reader out of my bag.

The SD standard is more than fast enough. In fact, with UHS-II, it's about twice as fast as CompactFlash. The SD standard might have started out as a consumer medium, but going forward, all signs point to SD being the primary medium for external cameras, both at the consumer level and at the pro level.

Even the CFast and XQD standards aren't very much faster than SD (less than a factor of two), which means that those standards will likely die a horrible death shortly after UHS-III gets released.

Also, the SD standard is much more mechanically robust than the CF standard, which should have been dumped twenty years ago over those fragile pins, but I digress.




Not quite. Apple's SD slot was an SD slot that you always had with you and that didn't require you to dig it out from the bottom of your camera bag. Built-in readers are a major improvement over the dark days of having to dig for a reader and plug it into the side of your laptop, carefully finding a solid surface to put your laptop on so that you won't accidentally knock loose the USB connector.

And now, Apple's laptops don't have one. Lame.

While I agree that even SOME "Pro" level DSLRs support SD (and some don't) and also that UHS has helped the speed issue quite a bit, I disagree that it is a major pain to "dig a reader out of the bottom of a camera bag".

First off, there couldn't be a more "gadgety" profession than photography. The fact that the concept of a camera-bag full of all manner of whatnot is a universal (and correct) image of the typical photog. tells all. So to say that this particular gadget is a bridge too far is pretty laughable.

Second, Pro photogs generally make sure they have enough "film" (memory cards) WITH THEM to complete their anticipated shoot, JUST SO they don't have to take the time to mess with ANY downloading "during the action". Failing to show up with enough storage media to cover the "shoot" is akin to showing up with only o e or two rolls of film, or without a spare battery or two. It Just. Isn't. Done. So the image you paint of "having to find a flat surface...", etc., like that would be typically happening during the "heat of battle" is disingenuous at best. So, whether your lappie has a slot in the side or a slot at the end of a small cable is pretty much a moot point.

Thirdly, if you are having to spend more than 2 seconds to lay your hands on ANYTHING in Your camera bag, you need to reorganize you bag, and/or invest in a more proper container for your gadgetry, sorry. If you are indeed a "Pro", nothing makes you look LESS Professional (and more importantly, more likely to miss the "money shot") than grubbing around in the bottom of your camera bag for more than a couple of seconds.

And Lastly, the future of photography lies not in dinky little Memory Cards; but in in-camera and standalone HDs and SSDs, WiFi, and "tethering" to laptops, tablets, and even smartphones. So again, going forward, that little SD slot is likely to gather more dust and cobwebs than it is Memory Cards...

Bottom line, just like Nikon eventually realized that Digital replaced, and in a lot of ways, surpassed Film, and, one fine day, simply stopped making the fine 35 mm film cameras it built its reputation on, thus the SD slot in your laptop is fast becoming a relic, still somewhat useful for the casual "photographer" that can store 400 JPEGS on a single 32 GB SDHC card; but less and less practical or useful (and less used) by true Pro photogs. That you claim are being slapped in the face by this.
[doublepost=1482785110][/doublepost]

An SSD that is soldered on, non-expandable, can't easily be moved to a new motherboard when your GPU inevitably fries itself, etc... yeah, neglect again. A poorly thought out change is often worse than no change at all.

You DO have a Time Machine backup, right? Apple makes that drop-dead easy; so there is pretty much no excuse to lose more than an hour's worth of changes.

Sounds like YOU need to realize that Apple really DOES have a plan.

 

[dragicon]

All apple needs to understand is that they did a crap refresh and they need to go back to drawing board and do better. But before that tim cook and phil schiller need to be fired and then jailed for being such *** ups.

Jailed?! L - O - L

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

Apple is nowhere near the first company to try this. The concept hasn't caught on, repeatedly. It's a gimmick. By contrast, every vi/vim/nvi user I know is thinking about switching platforms to get away from it because there's no mechanical escape key. Just because you change something doesn't mean you aren't neglecting it. Making changes without taking the time to research why similar designs have failed in the past is also a form of neglect.

If you are referring to that horrible thing that Lenovo tried (and rightly removed!), there is simply NO comparison. Look it up and compare it to the Touch Bar. I think you'll agree it isn't even close.

And if you are talking about the company that made/makes the keyboards with the cool LCD/OLED "key tops", most people wouldn't
[doublepost=1482785848][/doublepost]

Apple is nowhere near the first company to try this. The concept hasn't caught on, repeatedly. It's a gimmick. By contrast, every vi/vim/nvi user I know is thinking about switching platforms to get away from it because there's no mechanical escape key. Just because you change something doesn't mean you aren't neglecting it. Making changes without taking the time to research why similar designs have failed in the past is also a form of neglect.

If you are talking about that JOKE that Lenovo tried (and rightfully removed!), there is NO comparison. Look it up, and compare it with the Touch Bar. If you think they are even in the same Universe, I don't know how to even discuss this with you.

And if you are talking about the company that has the keyboards with the ultra-cool LCD/OLED Keytops, I sincerely doubt that ANYONE would buy a laptop with a keyboard that costs as much as the base-model 2016 MBP itself! (Not to mention the battery draw!)
[doublepost=1482786286][/doublepost]

Yawn @ all your posts.

Btw, my post was in response to someone asking a question.

Your blind loyalty would be embarrassing to the most loyal apologist. I guess I have to give you some credit for admitting that the issue is a problem, and you didn't explain why not being able to adjust the volume during a phone call is a good thing.

At some point you have to stop taking your posts seriously, just about everyone else has.

I was just pointing out that it was easily fixable with a software update, and will more than likely be; because, as I agreed, it most certainly IS an oversight and an inconvenience.

And, considering the number of "Likes" I get on my posts, I would say that what I am saying is, at least most of the time, not at all irrelevant.

 

[jjjoseph]

Its funny that Apple and Philip Schiller don't ask the users who own the MacBook Pro for their input, but decides to do their own independent research. HMMM?? Why not read these forums?

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

No they ain't don’t be silly. they are optimised for games. They’re not designed just for games.
[doublepost=1482743702][/doublepost]
Man have you been putting in a shedload of overtime here. Your 80Gbps of I/O. Where did you get that from? I ask because although Apple said that "with the MacPro You can connect up to 6 Thunderbolt devices on a single Thunderbolt bus. On a Mac Pro, you can do up to 36 Thunderbolt devices”, it was found by PCPWorks;
Note: this is very device dependent. In real world testing, depending on what kinds of devices you’re trying to hook up, you may only get up to 2-3 per bus before you start having problems.

The 15" MBPs have two TB 3 controllers, each capable of an aggregate I/O bandwidth of 40 Gbps per "bus" spread over the two ports they service. 40 + 40 = 80. Simple Math.

While I certainly agree that what you can actually realize is quite dependent on your particular "breakout" case for each port (and bus), that becomes almost impossible to state exactly correctly without writing a document that reads like the text of a typical Federal Law. So I state the raw I/O bandwidth. How you divvy that up depends on your use-case.

And things like the 13 PORT OWC TB3 dock, while a bit expensive, neatly show just how much legacy I/O you can realize from a single USB-C/TB3 Port/Bus. (and there is also a somewhat less expensive 12 Port TB2 version, too).

http://blog.macsales.com/38562-owc-...-3-dock-with-13-ports-available-for-pre-order

And in any event, there is simply no denying that those four USB-C/TB3 ports represent the most flexible I/O of any laptop on the market, regardless of the exact mix of legacy ports you can turn it into at any one time. And that alone is unique and remarkable in the industry.
[doublepost=1482788113][/doublepost]

Your cops lock key seems to getting stuck quite a bit maybe time for a brand new MacBook Pro ! I have a production unit, and the key seems fine, though alas the info on the website is probably out of date as it keeps refrencing preproduction details....

Just too lazy to scroll up to the Tool Palette to use proper text-styling. Bad habit from posting on Forums that don't have a proper Rich-Text Editor, like MR does.
[doublepost=1482788547][/doublepost]

I think I just heard the Consumer Reports technicians laugh.

Probably so; because they alare obviously uncaring hacks.

OTOH, I have designed and tested many industrial embedded products over the course of a few decades, and would never think of simply publishing test results with such glaring statistical outliers included, without a clear explanation of how those seemingly glaring statistical anomalies came to be verified as accurate, despite their seemingly incredible and questionable results. To do otherwise just begs questions of methods and even the skill of the technician conducting the tests themselves.
[doublepost=1482788773][/doublepost]

Do we in fact know that they didn't do that?

No. But considering the fact that no one has countered my posts (plural) regarding this, I would say that if someone could have pointed to proof that they verified their testing, they would have slapped me in the face with it by now, don'tcha think?
[doublepost=1482790887][/doublepost]

Its funny that Apple and Philip Schiller don't ask the users who own the MacBook Pro for their input, but decides to do their own independent research. HMMM?? Why not read these forums?

I don't know where in this thread I saw it; but a Post from a MR member (and 2016 MBP owner) who Replied to Schiller's Tweet on CR, said that Schiller wanted that User to send him some specific Diagnostics Logs, in an attempt to help discover what's up. I would agree that it would be good if Apple established a Support Page explaining what to send and to where; but I don't think that will happen unless and until Apple can't figure it out with the "field data" that they already have, amplified by the attention of Upper Management (Uncle Phil, et al.) breathing down Engineering's collective necks...

So, I'd say that sounds like about the most direct form of "soliciting user input" that there is.

And that has two other relatively recent similar "use of direct user input" precedents that come to mind:

1. Only a week or so ago, Craig Federici (IIRC) asked a User to let him "Capture" his MBP that had the "crackling" Audio that was actually BLOWING people's speakers in the MBP; so they could do advanced diagnostics "in situ".

2. Several Months ago, when there was a Kerfluffle about iTunes Deleting some peoples' iTunes Libraries (and Files!), Apple actually Dispatched an iTunes-Team-Engineer halfway across the country, to a User's house, to run some Advanced Diagnostics, and generally poke-around on her laptop to see what they could figure out about the problem.

 

[AppleFan91]

I wish I could give your post 10 thumbs up for the Ritchie part alone.

Yeah I mean I try not to be so jaded because I know Apple catches a lot of crap because it's popular to hate on them, but Rene will just damage control even when it isn't necessary.

 

[hindmost]

Totally agreed.

It is so maddening that these guys are overlooking the strategic value of Mac platform in the whole Apple ecosystem.
You know the cracks are appearing when lots of Apple fans are up in arms with what is happening in Apple these days.

....... out of touch with the user base.
- languishing of Macs - be it MacBook Air, Mac mini or Mac Pro
- screwing up MacBook Pro updates
- too lazy to update iPhone 7 design (to think that this is their most important product)
- whole donglelife thing is so form over function
- killing off the Apple display
- killing off the Apple wireless routers
- removing time remaining estimate

Aaaarrrrghhh, I sense disturbance in the force!

Amen!
Tim too seduced by his 'activist' role slapping/dapping with the glitterati....trips, excursions, meals with 'big shots', etc.
Apple is cancelling the best 'router' out there claiming low profits on that hardware. Apple ditched the classic glowing 'Apple icon' on the 2016 MacBook Pro that gave millions in free advertising to that popular portable (as seen constantly in hundreds of thousands of coffee shops everywhere while owners are using free wi-fi and by default advertising the Mac product).

Ditching the mag-safe connect that has saved so many a total destruct of their MacBook.

Requiring a tool box full of costly 'dongles' that Apple should provide FREE as part of the MacBook box.

Wake up Apple! The 'smartphone craze' is not forever. It's just a phone for God's sakes! Putting the Macintosh computer in the backseat....glitzing it up with 'cute' replacement for the function bar is like a dog wearing a tuxedo. The dog can do it...but it looks ridiculous.

 

[citysnaps]

.

The 3-5 hour is more a concern than the high numbers. You're missing the point.

Not true at all.

In the very recent past I've speculated on this thread about both MBP hardware and software/firmware issues that could have caused the low 3-5 hour battery life numbers. With respect to the 2016 MBP, I said the very real issue may likely be resolved with a future software/firmware update. And that this would not be the first time this has occurred.

As a hardware design engineer who has developed products and written my share of acceptance test plans, I try to understand potential issues that could cause abnormal results on both low and high ends.

Speculating and coming up with possible causes for a laptop returning low battery life numbers when properly and verifiably running a suite of rigorous tests is really very easy. Just a couple days ago I speculated, "I can think of all sorts of explanations for a computer having poor battery life; dGPU kicked in too often, firmware not programming ASICs properly, incomplete charge profile, poor or variable CPU/ASIC yields with high sidewall capacitance leakage under certain conditions, partially defective battery, battery charger not producing enough current during the charge cycle, display leakage abnormalities, and on and on."

Speculating and coming up with possible causes for a laptop returning absurdly high battery life numbers when properly and verifiably running a suite of rigorous tests is difficult if not impossible. That's when I question the reliability of the test protocols, procedures, and supervision/observation.

I'm still astonished that reported large numbers do not raise a bit of suspicion on your part, and even a test returning 1,000 hours (your number) of battery lifetime would not be enough for you to question test procedures.

 

[IG88]

In that case Cook can't even tell a decent lie. Forstall is a brilliant software engineer. Too many half baked issues since Forstall's been gone.

If there was an issue as you stated Cook should have run the middle. Cook was too busy running all over the globe at that time cutting ribbons on Apple stores. Time for Cook to go. Past time.

Forstall worked for Jobs at NEXT, followed him to Apple, and as you know, Forstall headed iOS development. I'm sure plenty of people inside Apple, including Scott, saw him as the natural successor to Jobs instead of a logistics / supply chain expert (Cook).

Cook would have viewed Forstall as a threat to the throne, an ever looming dark cloud that the board of directors could look to the moment Apple started to falter.

Jobs was supposedly one of the few people other than Forstall that liked skeumorphic design. Forstall kept pushing it after Jobs was gone, but it was falling upon deaf ears, and he didn't have Jobs around anymore to back him up.

I think Forstall was not well liked as I said before (not playing well with others). He was very confrontational and without Jobs there to protect him, he was a prime target. I think Timmy and the other key players (Jony, Craig, etc) got together and decided they wanted him gone. In comes Apple Maps....

Hard to say who pushed for the half baked Maps app to be forced upon iOS users, but I'm guessing it wasn't Scott, he had to know it wasn't ready. All the more reason for Tim to give him an impossible deadline to meet. Once it 'failed' Scott was screwed. If he signs the apology letter, he's screwed. If he doesn't sign it, he's screwed. Scott knew he was done either way so took the obvious choice of telling Tim to shove it.

 

[PLondon]

While I agree that even SOME "Pro" level DSLRs support SD (and some don't) and also that UHS has helped the speed issue quite a bit, I disagree that it is a major pain to "dig a reader out of the bottom of a camera bag".

First off, there couldn't be a more "gadgety" profession than photography. The fact that the concept of a camera-bag full of all manner of whatnot is a universal (and correct) image of the typical photog. tells all. So to say that this particular gadget is a bridge too far is pretty laughable.

Second, Pro photogs generally make sure they have enough "film" (memory cards) WITH THEM to complete their anticipated shoot, JUST SO they don't have to take the time to mess with ANY downloading "during the action". Failing to show up with enough storage media to cover the "shoot" is akin to showing up with only o e or two rolls of film, or without a spare battery or two. It Just. Isn't. Done. So the image you paint of "having to find a flat surface...", etc., like that would be typically happening during the "heat of battle" is disingenuous at best. So, whether your lappie has a slot in the side or a slot at the end of a small cable is pretty much a moot point.

Thirdly, if you are having to spend more than 2 seconds to lay your hands on ANYTHING in Your camera bag, you need to reorganize you bag, and/or invest in a more proper container for your gadgetry, sorry. If you are indeed a "Pro", nothing makes you look LESS Professional (and more importantly, more likely to miss the "money shot") than grubbing around in the bottom of your camera bag for more than a couple of seconds.

And Lastly, the future of photography lies not in dinky little Memory Cards; but in in-camera and standalone HDs and SSDs, WiFi, and "tethering" to laptops, tablets, and even smartphones. So again, going forward, that little SD slot is likely to gather more dust and cobwebs than it is Memory Cards...

Bottom line, just like Nikon eventually realized that Digital replaced, and in a lot of ways, surpassed Film, and, one fine day, simply stopped making the fine 35 mm film cameras it built its reputation on, thus the SD slot in your laptop is fast becoming a relic, still somewhat useful for the casual "photographer" that can store 400 JPEGS on a single 32 GB SDHC card; but less and less practical or useful (and less used) by true Pro photogs. That you claim are being slapped in the face by this.
[doublepost=1482785110][/doublepost]
You DO have a Time Machine backup, right? Apple makes that drop-dead easy; so there is pretty much no excuse to lose more than an hour's worth of changes.

Sounds like YOU need to realize that Apple really DOES have a plan.

Although I agree with a few of your points, I completely disagree when it comes to workflow.

Myself and many other sports and news photographers constantly edit on the fly during for instance a Premier Legue football match. (If no editor is provided that I can send live to over mobile wifi) So I'm constantly downloading and editing during a match. I shoot XQD so I so won't miss the SD slot, but the loss of USB-A is a pain at the moment as is the loss of MagSafe when you work on location, my various MacBook Pro has been saved countless times by it. The sad reality is that almost every single one of my photographer colleagues are disappointed by the new MacBook Pro. We still have far to many external HD, memory sticks, card readers etc that use USB-A to want a complete swap to USB-C adapters are an absolute pain and not a solution, loss of MagSafe a massive issue. The lack of a 32GB ram option makes it even less of an attractive upgrade. The touchbar is pointless and counterproductive for my use scenario where most f keys are used as shortcuts for photoshop actions. I can use the f keys when I touch type without looking away from the screen where my work is, I can't do that on a touchbar.

With regards to the battery life, it is another big concern for onsite unplugged editing. One can only hope that Apple sort themselves out and the next update of the MacBook will be a true pro machine again.

 

[MH01]

The 15" MBPs have two TB 3 controllers, each capable of an aggregate I/O bandwidth of 40 Gbps per "bus" spread over the two ports they service. 40 + 40 = 80. Simple Math.

While I certainly agree that what you can actually realize is quite dependent on your particular "breakout" case for each port (and bus), that becomes almost impossible to state exactly correctly without writing a document that reads like the text of a typical Federal Law. So I state the raw I/O bandwidth. How you divvy that up depends on your use-case.

And things like the 13 PORT OWC TB3 dock, while a bit expensive, neatly show just how much legacy I/O you can realize from a single USB-C/TB3 Port/Bus. (and there is also a somewhat less expensive 12 Port TB2 version, too).

http://blog.macsales.com/38562-owc-...-3-dock-with-13-ports-available-for-pre-order

And in any event, there is simply no denying that those four USB-C/TB3 ports represent the most flexible I/O of any laptop on the market, regardless of the exact mix of legacy ports you can turn it into at any one time. And that alone is unique and remarkable in the industry.
[doublepost=1482788113][/doublepost]
Just too lazy to scroll up to the Tool Palette to use proper text-styling. Bad habit from posting on Forums that don't have a proper Rich-Text Editor, like MR does.
[doublepost=1482788547][/doublepost]
Probably so; because they alare obviously uncaring hacks.

OTOH, I have designed and tested many industrial embedded products over the course of a few decades, and would never think of simply publishing test results with such glaring statistical outliers included, without a clear explanation of how those seemingly glaring statistical anomalies came to be verified as accurate, despite their seemingly incredible and questionable results. To do otherwise just begs questions of methods and even the skill of the technician conducting the tests themselves.
[doublepost=1482788773][/doublepost]
No. But considering the fact that no one has countered my posts (plural) regarding this, I would say that if someone could have pointed to proof that they verified their testing, they would have slapped me in the face with it by now, don'tcha think?
[doublepost=1482790887][/doublepost]
I don't know where in this thread I saw it; but a Post from a MR member (and 2016 MBP owner) who Replied to Schiller's Tweet on CR, said that Schiller wanted that User to send him some specific Diagnostics Logs, in an attempt to help discover what's up. I would agree that it would be good if Apple established a Support Page explaining what to send and to where; but I don't think that will happen unless and until Apple can't figure it out with the "field data" that they already have, amplified by the attention of Upper Management (Uncle Phil, et al.) breathing down Engineering's collective necks...

So, I'd say that sounds like about the most direct form of "soliciting user input" that there is.

And that has two other relatively recent similar "use of direct user input" precedents that come to mind:

1. Only a week or so ago, Craig Federici (IIRC) asked a User to let him "Capture" his MBP that had the "crackling" Audio that was actually BLOWING people's speakers in the MBP; so they could do advanced diagnostics "in situ".

2. Several Months ago, when there was a Kerfluffle about iTunes Deleting some peoples' iTunes Libraries (and Files!), Apple actually Dispatched an iTunes-Team-Engineer halfway across the country, to a User's house, to run some Advanced Diagnostics, and generally poke-around on her laptop to see what they could figure out about the problem.

Mate, I give you credit, you are passionate and taking the time to rely to people, kudos!

 

[mwidjaya]

...won't miss the SD slot, but the loss of USB-A is a pain at the moment as is the loss of MagSafe when you work on location, my various MacBook Pro has been saved countless times by it. The sad reality is that almost every single one of my photographer colleagues are disappointed by the new MacBook Pro....

Hear, hear. I think they went too aggressive with usb-c ports only. Didn't leave a way to transition smoothly into the future by including at least one usb-a port. Dongles are as you said a pain in the backside.

...One can only hope that Apple sort themselves out and the next update of the MacBook will be a true pro machine again.

I don't have high hopes of them reverting course. From the updates done in the last 2 gen, all the little delightful and functional touches have been removed. Eg. magsafe, sd card, hdmi, glowing apple logo, sleep light, battery light, upgradeable ssd and upgradeable RAM.

Oh, I don't think the new touchbar is functional or delightful. More like gimmicky.

 

[bjet767]

Jobs was supposedly one of the few people other than Forstall that liked skeumorphic design. Forstall kept pushing it after Jobs was gone, but it was falling upon deaf ears, and he didn't have Jobs around anymore to back him up.

So at what point did Apple users lose skeumorphic design in their devices?

BTW I had to look up this big word and found the best answer here:
http://medialoot.com/blog/skeuomorphic-design/

Basically it seems the current "flat" interface is a function of our modern design (and maybe Windows tiles).

 

[DJ Dilbert]

Really sick of the growing substandard quality control and crap support from Apple. (God forbid you ever need to call AppleCare in Europe (Germany precisely). Bunches of non-native speakers who have zero idea about anything take your call and monkey around for an hour). I distinctly remember it started from the iOS 7 days. I have been a fanboy for 8 years but it's just ridiculous nowadays to try and defend the company under Tim Cook's pathetic leadership. This madness of thinner and lighter at the cost of performance charging exorbitant prices really needs to stop. I don't demand ground breaking innovation every 3 years. Just make quality products and fix the damn bugs FFS it's not that hard!

Agreed, professionals don't care that much about the thinner and lighter (it is a factor though) aspects if it hurts performance.

 

[Ethosik]

Um, did people forget the keynotes that Steve Jobs made? Seriously, go back and watch them. Even he was going on and on about Thinness. This is not a new thing. People, stop with the 'thinness' crap. This, as thin as it is, was designed for a larger battery that didn't make it through an important test. This device being thin is not the reason for this. So just stop it.

Also, are people really expecting to get the advertised battery life? I have never had that happen on ANY of my laptops. Apple or other PC manufacturers. My 2013 rMBP only gets 45 minutes while working in FCP. Yet I can get 10 hours with web browsing on sites that have no ads or no flash/html5.
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Rene Ritchie sounds like an Apple apologist. It is not CR's responsibility to find Apple's glitches.

Conversely, CR should have provided more detail on their test results and testing process when issuing such a bombshell review. I am not saying they owe Apple anything, yet they definitely owe their readers a better explanation after a decade of uninterrupted Apple laptop recommendations.

Sometimes glitches are found after a product is launched. Take a look at the Surface Pro 4 launch history. It was HORRIBLE and it took A LONG TIME for it to be decent.
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What an offensive load of horsesh_t.

From an article yesterday on the MR front page:

"Battery life issues...ultimately led Apple to remove the "Time Remaining" battery life estimate in the macOS Sierra 10.12.2 update."
​

Obviously Apple are well aware of the MBP's inadequate battery life, or they wouldn't have removed the battery life estimate feature. Now maybe it really is a software glitch and Apple will have a patch out before the end of year. Apple under Jobs would have, but under Cook I wouldn't bet any money on it.

But the ultimate source of battery issues is Apple's inane focus on Thinner to the exclusion of all other features. This is supposed to be the "Pro" laptop from Apple. They already have two other laptop lines devoted to ultra-thin wisps of aluminum with a paucity of ports and features. So why is the Pro laptop simply a more expensive version of the Air? What the MBP should be is Apple's one laptop offering for those who prioritize performance and versatility over maximum-portability. Thicker, longer battery life, user serviceable/upgradable storage and memory, and a cornucopia of ports.

Professionals often have invested in gear and accessories that last longer than a laptop. They don't necessarily buy all new equipment with every laptop purchase. So why no USB A ports so they can jack in to their laptop? Why no SD card reader for professional photographers? Why no minidisplay port for all the high end displays currently in use? It sure as hell isn't so Apple can offer a cheaper laptop, which would at least be a rational offering. Instead Apple expect Pros to pay substantially more for the privilege of juggling dongles all day long.

This MBP is in it's own repugnant way every bit as offensive as the Mac Tube Pro. Apple served their own needs and treated professional needs with contempt. They are on thin ice and Microsoft, MICROSOFT, are about to eat Apple's lunch! Never did I think I'd live to see the day when Dell and Microsoft products are more elegant and user friendly than Macs.

Yes because removal of the battery life estimate is the only way to know how long your battery lasts. Really? You can't just time it yourself? Or look at Activity Monitor? This is all just big conspiracy?

 

[unplugme71]

You mean, Apple is working with Consumer Reports to help them understand how they're using the machine wrong.

The problem isn't that Apple's power saving features don't work. They work exceptionally well, that's where 16 hours is coming from. The problem is that they work too well and the battery is undersized. The moment you load the machine down, the battery % begins to drop through the floor because the machine quite literally was not designed for that kind of use. The "time remaining" indicator only served to highlight just how fast the % was falling (since it's far more difficult for a user to gauge the remaining time left based solely on a plummeting number), which is why they got rid of it. Apple wanted snazzy specs in a thin package, and this is the end result.

If they'd built the laptop properly with sufficient battery capacity, we'd be seeing a laptop that lasts 20-30 hours (!) under light use, and 7-8 hours under heavy use. Then I don't think anyone would be complaining. ~4 hours, however, isn't much, and is pretty inexcusable for what is being sold as a premium device.

No matter how much damage control they engage in, and no matter what they say about these devices or the users, it doesn't change the fact that the design is fundamentally flawed and Apple cannot change the laws of physics.

-SC

Of course Apple can change it. Through a software update. Software updates fix everything! Even adding more battery capacity.
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In short, you would take random anecdotes of poor battery life from people on forums and social media at their word? Just like that?

3-5 years ago I would. However, 2016 seems to be the year of fake news.