Phil Schiller: Apple Working With Consumer Reports to Understand MacBook Pro Battery Test

[dgdosen]

Which, BTW, is about 2000% more information than ANY other laptop OEM gives regarding their testing methodology.

Don't believe me? Check the Microsoft Site for the Surface Pro and Surface Book, the HP Spectre product Page, the Dell XPS 15 Product Page, and, if you can figure out which Lenovo Laptop to try, look there, too.

In comparison to those manufacturers, Apple publishes a veritable whitepaper regarding their battery-testing methodology.
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I think that custom OLED multitouch panel is the likely price-jump culprit; but if you look at competition like the Surface Book, the XPS 15 and the HP Spectre, you'll find they aren't so cheap, either.
[doublepost=1482734343][/doublepost]
And which laptops do you think are designed without at least a rough "run-time" target in mind?

Engineering is always about Compromise. It is always about a Double-Edged Sword.

ALWAYS.

Now, whether those particular Design-choices happen to fit your particular use-case is a much trickier matter; especially when said product will sell to millions of disparate users.

You're spending an enormous amount of time and energy on red herrings. I'm fine with Apple being as transparent as they want to be.

The bottom line is the batteries are significantly smaller moving from 2015 to 2016 (74.9Wh/99.5Wh to 49.2Wh/76Wh) per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacBook_Pro.

Was there an engineering problem that caused Apple to ship laptops with smaller batteries than intended? I don't know. Intentions don't matter. Res ipsa loquiter.

Is Apple charging a 'premium' price for a MBP? IMO, Yes

Is Apple's claim of 10 hour battery an issue? If I'm buying a premium product, I'd expect premium performance. If I, as a user, had great battery life in my last MBP or Air, I'd expect a new one to be able to again hit that claim, without me having to alter my workflow.

 

[coolfactor]

As a website developer, I use Safari, Chrome and Firefox side-by-side all day long.

Safari has always been my preferred and default browser, even though i did attempt several times to use others as my default. I always reverted back to Safari.

But Safari 10.x has issues. Where Chrome and Firefox happily chug along, Safari is frequently locking up. Slowness, freezing, to the point where I need to force-quit. This never happened with 9.x.

 

[MacsRuleOthersDrool]

You know that pre-production unit is exactly the same? It's what production unit is built based on. Moreover a battery is a battery. It lasts based on what you are doing. If indeed there is a software bug or bugs that cause the battery to be wasted then it will be fixed. End of story. Otherwise there is no mystery here or conspiracy.

Exactly. It is either built at the Apple Labs themselves, or, more likely, part of a "Pilot Run" built by the Contract Manufacturer (Foxconn, et al) that is used to shakeout any fabrication issues. But in every way that matters, it is identical to the hardware that ends up on the showroom floor.
[doublepost=1482739262][/doublepost]

Yes and something tells me that in about a year (or less) the MacBook Pros will be silently updated to Kaby Lake with better battery design (the one you allude to) and in my opinion that will be the one to upgrade to rather than the ones we have at the moment.

That's essentially what I told my friend that is waiting to upgrade from her 2009 MBP. I told her about the Kaby Lake delay that is holding back not only Apple, but others as well, and that it was probably better to wait until this time next year, or hopefully a little sooner.

 

[H2SO4]

right, i think the answer to your question is common sense / usability. If you plan to go to a meetings / fly a lot for work / grab a coffee in starbucks and work on your presentations, then yes, weight and size is key. If what you do is game a lot, then the macs are deffo not something you should throw your money at. Gaming machines are 100% designed and sold for a specific task and use case. These macs are sort of do a lot of things and do them good. Loads of companies out there issue laptops to their employees, not to play games on but to do their work from wherever they can (hotdesking in officers is a real thing). For all those people, size and weight is truly important.
No laptop, desktop or any others thing in the world can perform perfectly under all circumstances. Each buy what works best for them. Were I a gamer, I would certainly look elsewhere. But for what I do, for what pays my bills, the 15"MacBook pro i have is almost perfect.

No they ain't don’t be silly. they are optimised for games. They’re not designed just for games.
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Spoken like someone who has never developed a product.

No amount of lab and alpha/beta testing can hold a candle to releasing a product to a million or so users in a few-weeks' time; especially with the bitch-amplification-factor of Social Media and "tech" Forums; where everyone is an InstaPundit(tm).

Multiply that by the farector that everyone expects every single thing "Designed by Apple in California" to have Cold-Fusion power, Travel Faster-Than-Light, Guess what the User wants and return Spotlight searches even before the Query is made, etc.

So when they release a Laptop that merely has the year-over-year improvements of a 5k Display, the ability to drive two external 4k Displays, an SSD that is something like THREE TIMES faster than the competition, four multifunction, identical Ports with an industry-leading EIGHTY Gbps total of I/O bandwidth, a best-in-breed TrackPad nearly the size of an iPhone 7 Plus, plus a Unique, Multitouch input/display that provides the ability to provide a wide variety of control paradigms without stealing screen-space, InstaPundits yawn and say "Is that all ya got?"

Been happening for a few decades now. But there is no doubt that the Hate and Rudeness of people posting on the internet in general has become far worse in the past few years.

It's just the same ol' b.s., only louder. They'd whine about HP and Dell's offerings, too (and if you dig, you can find that that is actually the case); but, in general, nobody cares about them, so they simply don't get the "column-inches" that every single thing that Apple does, does.
[doublepost=1482712550][/doublepost]
Did you think to pop open Activity Monitor to see if there was some random Process pegging the CPU? Nothing else besides prevarication would explain your battery-life figures, sorry.
[doublepost=1482713049][/doublepost]
I've got a better idea:

Howabout they just throw in a couple of $3 USB-C to USB-A adapters with the new MBP and tell people to ****?

Man have you been putting in a shedload of overtime here. Your 80Gbps of I/O. Where did you get that from? I ask because although Apple said that "with the MacPro You can connect up to 6 Thunderbolt devices on a single Thunderbolt bus. On a Mac Pro, you can do up to 36 Thunderbolt devices”, it was found by PCPWorks;
Note: this is very device dependent. In real world testing, depending on what kinds of devices you’re trying to hook up, you may only get up to 2-3 per bus before you start having problems.

 

[MH01]

They spent like $10 BEEELION on R&D (a record, IIRC) last year.

I guarantee it wasn't all about removing the 3.5 mm jack from the iPhone 7...

And, as I have said previously in this thread, the year-over-year improvements in the MacBook Pro are thus:

Greatly expanded I/O capability. No, I didn't stutter. You can research my other posts in this thread to see why that is undeniably true. One readily-useful and unique expression (of many) demonstrating the 2016 MBP's sheer I/O power is the fact that (AFAIK) it is the only laptop capable of driving TWO 5k External Display (to complement it's Internal 5k Display, or FOUR 4k External Displays (in addition to its Internal 5k Display).

MUCH improved Thermal Management, allowing the CPU to remain "Throttled-Up" essentially continuously if needed. The 2015 MBP, by contrast, was only able to run at around 80% speed for extended compute-intensive tasks. This is quite important to video rendering, transcoding, signal-processing, "Photoshop" and other "number crunching".

SSD Performance that is THREE TIMES FASTER than (I believe) EVERYONE Else.

Touch Bar, which represents a unique, multi-touch, multi-modal graphical input/display interface. One that does not require a stylus, is on the same plane as the keyboard and trackpad, and which does not steal valuable screen real-estate, making "Full-Screen" apps much more seamless to use.

And a best-in-class multitouch TrackPad, which sports a 43% larger active surface than the 2015 version.

So, it isn't at all like the Mac line is being just thrown a minor "Update"-bone here. There's some real, significant improvements, even over its immediate predecessor.
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I was incorrect. It's actually FOUR 4k, or TWO 5k, External Displays (in addition to the internal 5k display).

But anyone like me with a MiniDP/TB1 Port (and only one, at that), would have to use an Adapter (like the one I use for my external VGA monitor) to do any of VGA, DVI or HDMI. So I really don't want to hear your whining about losing a piddly HDMI Port, when it gets replaced with FOUR USB-C/TB3/MiniDP (essentially) Ports that can become VGA/DVI/HDMI/Ethernet/4 x USB3.0/USB3.1v2/TB3/TB2/FW800/Etc cheaply and easily.
[doublepost=1482729996][/doublepost]
100,000 new Mac users at IBM alone would tend to disagree.

And it is important to point out that Those Users chose to have Macs. And the IT bean-counters couldn't be happier. Not to mention the Users...
[doublepost=1482730085][/doublepost]
The Quarterly Earnings Call will reveal all.

Bet you'll be surprised.
[doublepost=1482730357][/doublepost]
Hmmm. Using Safari.

Have you tried using Chrome instead? I'm really curious.
[doublepost=1482730775][/doublepost]
I have watched Phil Schiller since his first appearance at MacWorld (maybe even before). He is, if nothing else, a indefatigable Mac cheerleader, and was really in his element back in the old PowerPC vs. Intel Bake-Off days. Rest assured, he is a Mac-User too, and most certainly cares deeply about the Mac, and its Users.
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Because testing takes TIME, and people want to read about the laptops on Apple's website EVEN BEFORE THE "PRODUCTION" UNITS ARE SHIPPED.
[doublepost=1482731372][/doublepost]
Yawn. Easily fixed with a Software Update.

Try to come up with a real issue. I agree that was an oversight; but don't make it more than it is.
[doublepost=1482731455][/doublepost]
Funny.

The vast majority of people who have actually tried the Touch Bar immediately love it.

Your cops lock key seems to getting stuck quite a bit maybe time for a brand new MacBook Pro ! I have a production unit, and the key seems fine, though alas the info on the website is probably out of date as it keeps refrencing preproduction details....

 

[9081094]

As a website developer, I use Safari, Chrome and Firefox side-by-side all day long.

Safari has always been my preferred and default browser, even though i did attempt several times to use others as my default. I always reverted back to Safari.

But Safari 10.x has issues. Where Chrome and Firefox happily chug along, Safari is frequently locking up. Slowness, freezing, to the point where I need to force-quit. This never happened with 9.x.

Same for me. Also at work we have intranet with sharepoint and I'll get hangs and errors all the time. The intranet I can't change but I'm forced to use a different browser now

 

[djgamble]

I don't think I've ever seen apple accept fault let alone provide a technical statement . An accurate technical statement on the mater, no hope. Their testing approach already is flawed using pre-production units.

They will make a statement , but it will be vague and reassuring .

Apple regularly makes accurate statements. Frankly, what you call 'vague' is often the most accurate way of responding. I.e. stick to the facts and don't speculate. Think:
- "Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone." While Apple copped it big time from bloggers, I challenge you to YouTube ANY phone of that day. Oh... Apple was right, they can all be 'cupped' to the point where they drop out if you know how.
- "With normal use a bend in iPhone is extremely rare"... 9 users complained, all 9 had done stupid stuff and all 9 were replaced without question. If you read the blogs at the time you'd think the iPhone 6 was made out of rubber!
- "Most small cameras, including those in every generation of iPhone, may exhibit some form of flare at the edge of the frame when capturing an image with out-of-scene light sources". It's true... but 1 bad photo using an old iPhone can get the bloggers pretending it's some major iPhone-specific issue.
- "This issue has affected less than 1/10th of 1 percent of the total iPod nano units that we've shipped. It is not a design issue. It has more to do with obese Americans in tight pants putting the nano in their front jeans pocket, and then sitting for extended periods of time." Like it or not, another non-issue that got blown up due to 1 or 2 blog photos.
- People got hurt because they used 3rd party iPhone chargers. Apple commented that this was not their fault (and still got blamed by bloggers).

All of the above check out. While none are Apple saying 'this is all our fault'... no product is perfect. I think if one is to consider reasonable usage, NONE of the above were issues that annoyed more than a few outspoken users (all bloggers looking for publicity).

TBH Apple's most recent flaw is the fingerprint unlock for iOS 10. Nobody has complained about this for some reason. However, Apple have quietly allowed users to turn off Siri AND Voice Control in their moat recent iOS update. I dunno what the issue is, but with Siri turned on, unlocks regularly result in Siri asking 'what was that?' But of course no bloggers publicised this, so we won't care about it

 

[Bacillus]

Apple regularly makes accurate statements. Frankly, what you call 'vague' is often the most accurate way of responding. I.e. stick to the facts and don't speculate.

Conflicting parties more often so tell "half truths".
Apple is a champion at it. E.g. "You're holding it wrong" as a statement is true by itself.
But it ignores the context that 90+ % users hold it that way.
Phil Schiller is the champ of the champs. Effectively he's redefining the word "test" now.
He will find an awesome test definition ("The best real life simulation" blah-pedi-blah) where for 95% battery life appears OK. CR will be complimented buth didn't take into account that...blah-pedi-pah
Rephrasing and redefining issues is how these soapy guys rise themselves.
Plus, armies of spindoctors help them and enjoy Apple's trouble of today...

 

[MarsViolet]

There's an implied due diligence by any technician doing the sort of testing that CR was doing, that, when getting wildly disparate results for tests that are both too high and too low, especially by the amount that they "observed", to double-check and examine their equipment, unit-under-test, and testing methods for a possible explanation of such anomalous results.

Anything else is simply unacceptably bad practices.

I think I just heard the Consumer Reports technicians laugh.

 

[sracer]

This whole "trusting Consumer Reports more than Apple" is the consequence of Apple dragging their feet, tap dancing, and washing machine rinse cycle-like spin, on every issue that arises. Consumer Reports is no longer as trustworthy as they were back in their heyday, so the fact that there are so many willing to believe them over Apple is telling... and troubling. This is Apple's new reputation. Each time Apple is slow to respond to an issue simply reinforces that new reputation.

The Rx for Apple: Faster acceptance, more transparency, less marketing spin.
The Rx for Apple customers: Don't settle for tolerable with the hope that in the future things will improve.
(if performance/capabilities are unacceptable NOW, return for a refund rather than wait in the hope that it will be fixed)

To those Apple apologists, no, not everyone who believers CR over Apple is a troll.

 

[andy42]

Well, they can try, but the biggest issue of the 2016 MBPs is more than just battery life. There is nothing about PRO anymore. I don't want to use for pretty much everything you can get from your friends and customers an adapter to plug it in. I would understand if Apple would reduce some ports to push to new ones, but they just kicked out pretty much everything I have around me and push ppl to buy some stupid and expensive adapters!
Apple need a huge change and re-focus otherwise all the PRO-user will end up with Microsoft products!
Many of my "hardcore apple" friends started to buy other products and are more open for "new" brands.

 

[Abazigal]

Well, they can try, but the biggest issue of the 2016 MBPs is more than just battery life. There is nothing about PRO anymore. I don't want to use for pretty much everything you can get from your friends and customers an adapter to plug it in. I would understand if Apple would reduce some ports to push to new ones, but they just kicked out pretty much everything I have around me and push ppl to buy some stupid and expensive adapters!
Apple need a huge change and re-focus otherwise all the PRO-user will end up with Microsoft products!
Many of my "hardcore apple" friends started to buy other products and are more open for "new" brands.

When one door opens, another closes.

The number of "pro" users who jump ship to another platform will likely pale in comparison to the new number of Mac users Apple gains because of how much "nicer" their laptops have become.

I am not saying it is right of Apple to stop prioritizing the "pro" user base or that it's wrong of your friends to switch, but Apple has shown their hand and decided that is the direction they wish to go. The ball is now in the consumers' court, so let us all vote with our wallets and we will let the sales figures speak for themselves.

 

[mac_in_tosh]

There's an implied due diligence by any technician doing the sort of testing that CR was doing, that, when getting wildly disparate results for tests that are both too high and too low, especially by the amount that they "observed", to double-check and examine their equipment, unit-under-test, and testing methods for a possible explanation of such anomalous results.

Do we in fact know that they didn't do that?

 

[Roller]

It's hard to argue that CR's inconsistent results make sense. Either there's something amiss with their test procedures, the computers, or both. That they apparently haven't seen the same behavior with other laptops suggests that it's the new MacBook Pro and/or the software that's at fault. In their explanation of the Not Recommended rating, CR says that when they ran the same tests using Chrome, they "found battery life to be consistently high on all six runs."

Should CR have held off publication pending further investigation? Maybe, but they also claim that Apple declined to comment initially. At least they've managed to get Apple to react publicly.

CR reported that the previous generation 15" MBP had a 16.5 hour battery life. That shows that their test procedures only mimic very lightweight usage. Anyone who pushes their computer harder is going to get less than that, and I think that most people recognize this.

The questions are:

1. Will Apple be able to address the inconsistency of CR's results with a software update? And, even if they can, will the battery life be enough for CR to recommend the 2016 MBP with its lower capacity battery?

2. When will Apple release a MBP with better battery life? I'm OK with the 9-10 hours I'm getting on my 13" MBP for the work that I do. But if I thought that we'd see an updated computer with a new battery design that adds a couple of hours (and maybe Kaby Lake) in around six months, I might consider waiting.

 

[MH01]

Apple regularly makes accurate statements. Frankly, what you call 'vague' is often the most accurate way of responding. I.e. stick to the facts and don't speculate. Think:
- "Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone." While Apple copped it big time from bloggers, I challenge you to YouTube ANY phone of that day. Oh... Apple was right, they can all be 'cupped' to the point where they drop out if you know how.
- "With normal use a bend in iPhone is extremely rare"... 9 users complained, all 9 had done stupid stuff and all 9 were replaced without question. If you read the blogs at the time you'd think the iPhone 6 was made out of rubber!
- "Most small cameras, including those in every generation of iPhone, may exhibit some form of flare at the edge of the frame when capturing an image with out-of-scene light sources". It's true... but 1 bad photo using an old iPhone can get the bloggers pretending it's some major iPhone-specific issue.
- "This issue has affected less than 1/10th of 1 percent of the total iPod nano units that we've shipped. It is not a design issue. It has more to do with obese Americans in tight pants putting the nano in their front jeans pocket, and then sitting for extended periods of time." Like it or not, another non-issue that got blown up due to 1 or 2 blog photos.
- People got hurt because they used 3rd party iPhone chargers. Apple commented that this was not their fault (and still got blamed by bloggers).

All of the above check out. While none are Apple saying 'this is all our fault'... no product is perfect. I think if one is to consider reasonable usage, NONE of the above were issues that annoyed more than a few outspoken users (all bloggers looking for publicity).

TBH Apple's most recent flaw is the fingerprint unlock for iOS 10. Nobody has complained about this for some reason. However, Apple have quietly allowed users to turn off Siri AND Voice Control in their moat recent iOS update. I dunno what the issue is, but with Siri turned on, unlocks regularly result in Siri asking 'what was that?' But of course no bloggers publicised this, so we won't care about it

I agree with you . There is an art of responding , being positive and saying very little.

Case in example is the iPhone 6 bending. 9 users officially ...... I saw more than 9 just on MR, does not matter though, they decided to manipulate the data to choose those 9, which is fine, the real kick in the nuts though is Apple amends the design of the 6S to improve the strength of the chassis on purpose.....for those 9 users....no....the flaw was corrected. Apple does not increase the thickness of thier device for the first tile due to there being no issue.

If you have been with apple for a long time you will realise they never admit fault, give a positive spin on an issue, and the next version corrects the same issue. "These are not the droids you are looking for " and it words like a treat.......not on everyone though.

While I see through the BS, I respect them for it as well, its how you build a strong brand culture...if verging on religious at times

And you are correct no product is perfect, applies to all including Apple products , heck I own quite a few Apple Rev A products....perfect is a state of mind and shiny at times....
[doublepost=1482766104][/doublepost]

When one door opens, another closes.

The number of "pro" users who jump ship to another platform will likely pale in comparison to the new number of Mac users Apple gains because of how much "nicer" their laptops have become.

I am not saying it is right of Apple to stop prioritizing the "pro" user base or that it's wrong of your friends to switch, but Apple has shown their hand and decided that is the direction they wish to go. The ball is now in the consumers' court, so let us all vote with our wallets and we will let the sales figures speak for themselves.

Apple wants £££. That is the consumer crowd. The "Pros" jumped a while ago, as large corporations moved off Apple. What is left behind is people deep inside the Apple ecosystem calling themselves "Pros" some for legitimate reasons, with no where to go. As Apple moves more and more away from computers each year, these folk are left stranded, not easy to jump ship when your whole ecosystem is built around Apple . Apple does not care about thier needs, they can change thier needs to meet apples products that are now days made for rhe consumer and max profits. Kudos to Apple the strategy is getting them record profits. No money in top tier specialised machines, generic office laptop or iMac rolls in rhe £££. It's why I expect the Mac mini and Mac Pro will be gone

 

[triton100]

I agree with you . There is an art of responding , being positive and saying very little.

Case in example is the iPhone 6 bending. 9 users officially ...... I saw more than 9 just on MR, does not matter though, they decided to manipulate the data to choose those 9, which is fine, the real kick in the nuts though is Apple amends the design of the 6S to improve the strength of the chassis on purpose.....for those 9 users....no....the flaw was corrected. Apple does not increase the thickness of thier device for the first tile due to there being no issue.

If you have been with apple for a long time you will realise they never admit fault, give a positive spin on an issue, and the next version corrects the same issue. "These are not the droids you are looking for " and it words like a treat.......not on everyone though.

While I see through the BS, I respect them for it as well, its how you build a strong brand culture...if verging on religious at times

And you are correct no product is perfect, applies to all including Apple products , heck I own quite a few Apple Rev A products....perfect is a state of mind and shiny at times....
[doublepost=1482766104][/doublepost]

Apple wants £££. That is the consumer crowd. The "Pros" jumped a while ago, as large corporations moved off Apple. What is left behind is people deep inside the Apple ecosystem calling themselves "Pros" some for legitimate reasons, with no where to go. As Apple moves more and more away from computers each year, these folk are left stranded, not easy to jump ship when your whole ecosystem is built around Apple . Apple does not care about thier needs, they can change thier needs to meet apples products that are now days made for rhe consumer and max profits. Kudos to Apple the strategy is getting them record profits. No money in top tier specialised machines, generic office laptop or iMac rolls in rhe £££. It's why I expect the Mac mini and Mac Pro will be gone

Who are these pros that are jumping ship?

I produce published music for film and TV and direct and edit network broadcast programming. That makes me a pro user. When I'm not in the studio or production house I use my MacBook Pro. I push it hard with some of the most demanding software out there. I produce work that people think was achieved in a 5k per day facility post house. I've even had people not believe I produced projects on my laptop.

I haven't jumped ship and don't intend to. The new 2016 technology is sublime. I am on this forum simply to keep up with latest updates but all this noise is tiresome.

 

[MH01]

Who are these pros that are jumping ship?

I produce published music for film and TV and direct and edit network broadcast programming. That makes me a pro user. When I'm not in the studio or production house I use my MacBook Pro. I push it hard with some of the most demanding software out there. I produce work that people think was achieved in a 5k per day facility post house. I've even had people not believe I produced projects on my laptop.

I haven't jumped ship and don't intend to. The new 2016 technology is sublime. I am on this forum simply to keep up with latest updates but all this noise is tiresome.

Can I ask a question .

I use my MacBook Pro to code, run multiple VMS, edit videos, encode etc etc . I'm am an employee of a huge media company, I don't call myself a "Pro user' . I look around and there are hundreds of us in a massive building ...it's a tool. I really don't grasp this "pro user" concept. Anyone using a computer to achieve thier job might as well call themselves a pro user.....can I do my job without a computer , no! Can I do my job faster with a more powerful computer , yes! So a pro user.

I think the term has stemmed from the concept of professional photographers, where people would use cameras as thier main tool to earn a living......well in such case every developer in the world is a "Professional user" though they will not claim it as such, they call themselves developers, specialising in tech stacks, and the computer is just a tool.

 

[ImaxGuy]

Because the vast majority of people still have USB A on their computers and would be upset if it only came with USB C. And those who have the new MacBook Pros probably bought a USB C to lightning or just use it with their USB C to USB A adapter and still receive great transfers speeds.

I agree. It's also the reason I think that Apple should have included a USB C to USB Aadapter with their new USB C only MacBook Pros - there is a distinct LACK of USB C devices at the time of launch. I paid $4300 CND and still had to shell out for adapters at additional cost to use it with my existing gear.

 

[Roller]

Can I ask a question .

I use my MacBook Pro to code, run multiple VMS, edit videos, encode etc etc . I'm am an employee of a huge media company, I don't call myself a "Pro user' . I look around and there are hundreds of us in a massive building ...it's a tool. I really don't grasp this "pro user" concept. Anyone using a computer to achieve thier job might as well call themselves a pro user.....can I do my job without a computer , no! Can I do my job faster with a more powerful computer , yes! So a pro user.

I think the term has stemmed from the concept of professional photographers, where people would use cameras as thier main tool to earn a living......well in such case every developer in the world is a "Professional user" though they will not claim it as such, they call themselves developers, specialising in tech stacks, and the computer is just a tool.

Like you, I use my laptop exclusively for my work, running a suite of productivity applications. But I'm sure that I don't push it as hard as the guy down the street who uses the same computer to edit family videos. Does that make me a pro user and him not?

The term "pro" is often used to denote products that are used in the course of employment and ostensibly must operate at a higher standard than consumer equipment. It's not just computers or photography — GMC advertises their trucks as "professional grade" for the same reason. In some cases, there are real differences. For example, the cameras favored by photographers who rely on them for their livelihood are usually more rugged and capable than lower-cost equipment. But I think that vendors, Apple included, use the "pro" designation to give the impression that their stuff is better.

 

[hardflaco]

Mine arrives later this week too, and I am also having similar considerations. However, it's easy to soak up all the speculative and 'expert' comments and find that your being swayed by what is simply commentary and opinion. Why don't you give it a try first and put your owners perspective as the influence behind your decisions. Let me know how it goes.

I have until Jan 14 to return it, but i will be traveling..... If i take the risk to try it, then i could have difficulties to return it before the date.....
I am serios,y thinking to return it and wait to buy buy something else....

 

[ENduro]

Imore does have a point. CR got 3 widely different battery life test results. Won't that suggest that something might be amiss with their battery testing methodology? Instead of ascertaining the reason behind this inconsistency, CR is opting to write it off as the MBP's problem.

Some people here are suggesting that the MBP was rushed. Seems the report by CR was rushed as well to meet a certain deadline and fit a certain narrative as well.

This is Consumer Reports, not the Verge. Consumer Reports' reputation is impeccable.

In short? You're defending it wrong.
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People likely forgot Consumer Reports was still in business. Nothing gets your stuff read like negative Apple news!

"..At present, it has roughly 7 million—3.8 million of them print subscribers and 3.2 million of them digital. This is, by magazine standards, a huge subscription base" - that puts them at like #8 in the US as far as print subscriptions go and #4 if you combine their digital and print subscribers. And 1 and 2 are from the AARP and free with your membership and #3 is the Costco magazine, also free with membership so... You're being a fanboy.

 

[MH01]

Like you, I use my laptop exclusively for my work, running a suite of productivity applications. But I'm sure that I don't push it as hard as the guy down the street who uses the same computer to edit family videos. Does that make me a pro user and him not?

The term "pro" is often used to denote products that are used in the course of employment and ostensibly must operate at a higher standard than consumer equipment. It's not just computers or photography — GMC advertises their trucks as "professional grade" for the same reason. In some cases, there are real differences. For example, the cameras favored by photographers who rely on them for their livelihood are usually more rugged and capable than lower-cost equipment. But I think that vendors, Apple included, use the "pro" designation to give the impression that their stuff is better.

i agree with you for me though the irony is that I have burned out a number of macs due to heat issues , so while I want them thicker with better battery and heat management , apple gives me thinner and throttling, cause it's what the consumer wants.

I guess as long as the tool works, who cares eh
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I have until Jan 14 to return it, but i will be traveling..... If i take the risk to try it, then i could have difficulties to return it before the date.....
I am serios,y thinking to return it and wait to buy buy something else....

Go ahead and try it. No issues returning it if you tried it, you bought from apple right ?

 

[SeanR1]

"C'mon guys! The check was in the mail! You couldn't have waited another day to post your review??"


(Also, lol @ Rene Ritchie. I can't go to iMore anymore. That guy has to be on Apple's PR team)

I wish I could give your post 10 thumbs up for the Ritchie part alone.

 

[hardflaco]

It's hard to argue that CR's inconsistent results make sense. Either there's something amiss with their test procedures, the computers, or both. That they apparently haven't seen the same behavior with other laptops suggests that it's the new MacBook Pro and/or the software that's at fault. In their explanation of the Not Recommended rating, CR says that when they ran the same tests using Chrome, they "found battery life to be consistently high on all six runs."

Should CR have held off publication pending further investigation? Maybe, but they also claim that Apple declined to comment initially. At least they've managed to get Apple to react publicly.

CR reported that the previous generation 15" MBP had a 16.5 hour battery life. That shows that their test procedures only mimic very lightweight usage. Anyone who pushes their computer harder is going to get less than that, and I think that most people recognize this.

The questions are:

1. Will Apple be able to address the inconsistency of CR's results with a software update? And, even if they can, will the battery life be enough for CR to recommend the 2016 MBP with its lower capacity battery?

2. When will Apple release a MBP with better battery life? I'm OK with the 9-10 hours I'm getting on my 13" MBP for the work that I do. But if I thought that we'd see an updated computer with a new battery design that adds a couple of hours (and maybe Kaby Lake) in around six months, I might consider waiting.

Is your 13" MBP 2015 or the new 2016?

 

[kdarling]

Imore does have a point. CR got 3 widely different battery life test results. Won't that suggest that something might be amiss with their battery testing methodology? Instead of ascertaining the reason behind this inconsistency, CR is opting to write it off as the MBP's problem.

As for methodology, CR has probably done thousands of these tests on many types of devices, whereas Apple's experience would be limited to only what they make.

I (and most other older people) would certainly believe CR (boring as they are, they have the integrity of not being paid by advertising) over some internet blogger who lives off click bait headlines. The comments on his site against his article are quite telling, too. Virtually no one believes him to be unbiased.

Apple regularly makes accurate statements. Frankly, what you call 'vague' is often the most accurate way of responding. I.e. stick to the facts and don't speculate.

Yep, that's what they do. Apple tells a truth. Everyone knows that's the best way to hide something. They're also smart enough to know that their fans (and lazy reporters) will blindly repeat everything without even thinking about what was actually said or not.

- "Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone."

Talking about full hand death grips on other phones was pure handwaving. It had nothing to do with the iPhone 4 problem, which was the unfortunate ability of the phone to be detuned and drop a call simply by placing a little finger on ONE TINY SPOT, bridging two antenna sections. Name another phone which does that.

The reason this obvious design mistake was not found in testing, was because of Apple's vaunted desire for secrecy. Apple required its field users to hide the new model inside a case, thus preventing the touch from happening.

Moreover, Jobs said that dropped calls had increased "less than 1%", which is the same as saying "had increased up to 1%". The problem was (and this was something that the so-called tech press failed to investigate) that AT&T's drop rate was already down at 1%. So it's quite possible that the iPhone 4's drop rate increase almost DOUBLED what was normal.

- "With normal use a bend in iPhone is extremely rare"... 9 users complained, all 9 had done stupid stuff and all 9 were replaced without question.

Apple smartly rushed out a PR statement while they could still specifically say "only nine users" had complained directly to Apple up until that moment. (They avoided mentioning how many more had complained directly to the retail store they bought their phone from.)

The announcement was also made within the first few days of launch, when most people wouldn't have known that a bend wasn't totally their fault. So by now, those "9" would likely be hundreds if not thousands. But Apple knew that its fanboys would continue to repeat "9" as if all complaints had stopped after a few days.

Once again, the reason for the bending was a bad engineering design, possibly done by a newbie employee. Structural analysis showed that the brace around that section was too short, and instead actually acted as a fulcrum to make bending even easier!

- People got hurt because they used 3rd party iPhone chargers. Apple commented that this was not their fault (and still got blamed by bloggers).

This is true. At the same time, millions of OFFICIAL Apple chargers have been recalled for shock and fire hazards as well.