Phil Schiller Defends App Store Approval Process

[dernhelm]

While I am aware of a couple of rejections that I feel were odd or questionable, I also feel that VAST MAJORITY of people are not treated unfairly by the process.

Were are talking about a very vocal minority of developers here. But then again, this is an internet forum, so pretty much that's all we EVER talk about.

 

[gnasher729]

I refuse to develop for the iPhone because I don't want to deal with arbitrary rejection reasons, waiting weeks to get patches in, dealing with name squatters, being restricted from using other SDKs, and being silenced from iPhone development discussions except for the most basic of things. Frankly, I'm surprised the app store is as popular as it is, considering all the draconian policies. And people think Microsoft is bad?

What the app store is doing here is setting a dangerous precedent, where software developers are at the mercy of a corporation.

So you refuse to develop for the iPhone. Do you think you will be missed? Maybe you should go into games development, where the companies love to hire developers who will work 80 hours a week without getting any overtime payments.

 

[huntercr]

I refuse to develop for the iPhone because I don't want to deal with arbitrary rejection reasons, waiting weeks to get patches in, dealing with name squatters, being restricted from using other SDKs, and being silenced from iPhone development discussions except for the most basic of things. Frankly, I'm surprised the app store is as popular as it is, considering all the draconian policies. And people think Microsoft is bad?

What the app store is doing here is setting a dangerous precedent, where software developers are at the mercy of a corporation.

Cry me a river.

Where else in the world can you get a free SDK, distributor, advertising, antipiracy control ( though insufficient IMHO ), and sales statistics for 30%?

There is no silencing about iPhone development, BTW.. where the heck are you getting that? Are you referring to the old NDA from 3 years ago?

A minor point:: Apple may be strict, but remember.. it's their ass on the line too. If they let you publish something substandard, it reflects on them. If they let you publish something illegal, it puts them in the crosshairs.

You are free to publish your app as a web application or for another platform.


And another thing, while Apple may be making bad calls here and there, quite simply the App store is overrun with apps. I personally wish we could do some culling. Some of the apps out there are so bad, it's just creating fog for the buyers.

If you have to go through 10 crappy apps to find a good one, you might give up searching altogether. Most of these apps are convenience purchases or "nice to have"s so if the customer gets frustrated even in the slightest, you're probably going to lose the sale.

 

[JonHimself]

I'm not a developer and I don't truly understand the frustration for those that have had problems so please take this for what it's worth (little).. but does anyone think if we had a news article about every app that was accepted we might realize how infrequently this actually happens? That doesn't fix the problem that some developers have had with the process but I tend to believe him that the problems are a small percentage of the overall process.. we just happen to hear about them because no one is going to complain, pull their support, etc when things are going fine.

 

[knightlie]

I refuse to develop for the iPhone because I don't want to deal with arbitrary rejection reasons, waiting weeks to get patches in, dealing with name squatters, being restricted from using other SDKs, and being silenced from iPhone development discussions except for the most basic of things. Frankly, I'm surprised the app store is as popular as it is, considering all the draconian policies. And people think Microsoft is bad?

Did you miss the part where Microsoft will charge you for each submission - whether they reject it or not? That means correcting a small bug you missed costs you a second submission fee - you know, the one Apple doesn't charge. App Store crapness notwithstanding, don't wheel out the "As bad as Microsoft" soundbite, it doesn't stand up.

As for the success of the App Store, perhaps your fears are unfounded? 100,000 apps can't be wrong...

What the app store is doing here is setting a dangerous precedent, where software developers are at the mercy of a corporation.

That's just hyperbole.

 

[sh1n1gam1]

Secure platform with back doors?

While the majority of rejections may very well be due to some of the stated reasons, there are examples that do not fall into any of the categories that Schiller claims. The following is perhaps the best example: http://alsoftiphone.com/iPrivacy/. Its rejection is puzzling enough but the reason for its rejection is downright bizarre and disturbing. In addition to not falling under any of the categories mentioned by Schiller, this rejection raises serious questions about whether Apple is building back doors into encryption applications on the platform. That certainly cannot be a good thing. I rest my case...

 

[edesignuk]

A minor point:: Apple may be strict, but remember.. it's their ass on the line too. If they let you publish something substandard, it reflects on them. If they let you publish something illegal, it puts them in the crosshairs.

By that logic nothing could ever be released on any platform without the platform owner giving the green light. As we know, this is simply not he case.

Apple are just hell bent on controlling every little detail about the iPhone. Not that it matters of course, it's still a massive success and the vast majority of people couldn't give a rats arse about a few developers getting their panties in a twist over Apple's apparent flawed app approval mechanisms.

I don't like it one little bit, so I don't own an iPhone.

 

[JonHimself]

...And another thing, while Apple may be making bad calls here and there, quite simply the App store is overrun with apps. I personally wish we could do some culling. Some of the apps out there are so bad, it's just creating fog for the buyers.

If you have to go through 10 crappy apps to find a good one, you might give up searching altogether. Most of these apps are convenience purchases or "nice to have"s so if the customer gets frustrated even in the slightest, you're probably going to lose the sale.

Just based on my parents purchases of terrible casino, slot machine, card game, etc while in line at a grocery store or a wal-mart I tend to believe that the same problem exists with PC (or Mac, computers in general) software. You just have to check out review sites (I can only think of Touch Arcade of the top of my head but I know there are several) as well as browsing the iTunes Store on your computer (easier than on the phone, in my opinion) to find what you're looking for. Even for video games, all I really have to base this on is my own purchasing habits but I generally only buy Madden and NHL (maybe MLB and occasionally stuff like GTA, etc) yet the EB games is FULL of games I'll never play, will never look at, have never even heard of and - to me - are just taking up space.
I guess it's unavoidable.

 

[twilson]

I just wish they'd offer a refund service. That's the only flaw I can come up with - and maybe video previews in the store to see footage.

Just ask for a refund, I did on a $10 app and they refunded it happily. Was a very easy process.

 

[*LTD*]

Despite the issues, it's a wild, runaway success. It is THE platform to develop for.

 

[johnnyjibbs]

The current process takes too long. They really need to speed it up. It's not like they don't have the cash to hire more reviewers...

 

[eastcoastsurfer]

A minor point:: Apple may be strict, but remember.. it's their ass on the line too. If they let you publish something substandard, it reflects on them. If they let you publish something illegal, it puts them in the crosshairs.

The problem is that there are tons of substandard apps in the appstore. Apple is not rejecting what they should and instead doing rejections rather arbitrarily. GV is a great example. As is any app that might give Apple competition now or in the future. Apple rejects great apps because they don't like an icon, but then let in the tons of substandard fart like copycat apps?

 

[kate-willbury]

judging by the top sales of certain apps, its pretty clear that the ipod touch/iphone is mainly owned by little kids. so yes, this approval process gets my blessing as well.

 

[kallisti]

"appease developers"?! good lord. I'm surprised anyone would spend time or money developing an app that could be rejected out of hand...

What if we changed your quote to read: "I'm surprised anyone would spend time or money writing a novel that could be rejected out of hand..."?

Doesn't sound as crazy when you word it that way, does it? I would imagine (though I don't have data to back this up) that there is a much higher chance an app will get into the app store than a novel will get picked up by a publisher. Yet people still spend months (years) writing novels.

 

[Bill&Rose]

The whole problem with this store is over 100,000 products? There is no way anyone can review each and every one of those products so the good ones get lost is a maze of useless products.

Even the 10,000 products in the Droid store are far to many.

These stores are nothing but gimmicks.

Apple is losing me as a customer due to their practices.

I currently have two iMacs and a MacBook Pro. I highly doubt I will invest in any further Apple products due to the way Apple does business.

 

[Chaos215bar2]

What if we changed your quote to read: "I'm surprised anyone would spend time or money writing a novel that could be rejected out of hand..."?

Doesn't sound as crazy when you word it that way, does it? I would imagine (though I don't have data to back this up) that there is a much higher chance an app will get into the app store than a novel will get picked up by a publisher. Yet people still spend months (years) writing novels.

The trouble is, if you're rejected from the App Store, that's it. If you want to take you're hard work to another app store, you'll need to completely rewrite it using their language and APIs.

 

[jbellanca]

I guess I'm in that "1%". One of my apps was originally approved about 8 months ago and is in the store, and has even made the Top 50 in its category before and has thousands of users. Then a random update to fix a minor bug submitted in the beginning of October is still in review...

 

[Compile 'em all]

Really most of the troubles bugging devs about the app store would be solved with short approval times. If it takes a day or two max to hear back from them everything would have been fine. But having to wait at least 2 week for a minor update is ridiculous.

 

[eastcoastsurfer]

What if we changed your quote to read: "I'm surprised anyone would spend time or money writing a novel that could be rejected out of hand..."?

Doesn't sound as crazy when you word it that way, does it? I would imagine (though I don't have data to back this up) that there is a much higher chance an app will get into the app store than a novel will get picked up by a publisher. Yet people still spend months (years) writing novels.

You fail at analogies. If no publisher picks up my novel I can shop it around to another publisher or just publish it myself and sell it on my website. There is always another option to sell a book, there are no other options with the app store.

 

[haravikk]

I much prefer the idea of a reviewed store as Apple has now to that of a completely "open" system. For consumers it means that apps are all of some standard, most notably in terms of their technical features, so apps that instantly drain your battery, or make your phone slow or unresponsive, or just plain don't work properly are going to be rejected. So you know when you download something from the app-store that it should just work, and it makes sure that application developers maintain these standards and put the extra effort in to make sure their apps get approved.

However, I can also similarly agree with the complaints, as a developer myself I'm obviously wary of whether my app will be approved or not; so I would like Apple to make their system more transparent, and provide as much feedback to the developers as possible in regards to why their app(s) were rejected.

 

[Sbrocket]

...On the other hand, adding features and fixing bugs helps maintain a positive relationship with your existing clients, who presumably count first in your potential audience for future unrelated releases...

The problem is that, with Apple acting as the sole "iPhone application publisher", there is no such connection between the developer and the customer. We don't know who the customer is unless they do something like email us for support. Beyond that, the customer data never gets to us. There's no way to notify these customers of upcoming releases and such, and as such there's little incentive to release updates beyond the necessities for bug fixes and such. The software publishing model didn't work before, it sure isn't going to work now.

 

[jbellanca]

The problem is that, with Apple acting as the sole "iPhone application publisher", there is no such connection between the developer and the customer. We don't know who the customer is unless they do something like email us for support. Beyond that, the customer data never gets to us. There's no way to notify these customers of upcoming releases and such, and as such there's little incentive to release updates beyond the necessities for bug fixes and such. The software publishing model didn't work before, it sure isn't going to work now.

Agreed that this is also a problem. My users - unless they purposely visit my website/blog - would have no idea that a new version has been in the works for ~2 months, what's holding it up, etc. But at least with this, I can build a view into my app that let's people view developer news, register, submit feedback, etc., if I choose to do so. So, I don't really see this is a major thing Apple has to change. Sure, it would be nice to have a better way to handle this, but I can manage the way it is now.

But what I don't have is any clear checklist of sorts that tells me what Apple will or won't accept as apps. For example, my app hasn't really changed at all from the last version to the new version, other than the minor bug fix, and yet it's still taking forever to review. What baffles me is that: (1) it's been approved before, so the only thing that could have changed is their review process, since the app hasn't changed; (2) exactly why an app like mine, that contains nothing different that many other apps and online stores (just organized differently), is being held up; and, (3) what _specifically_ I can do about it to alleviate their concerns.

(For those wondering why I'm selling an app like many others - it summarizes info you could find in 1,000 other places all in one place, and targets a specific type of user, so it's very valuable if you happen to fall within it's demographic.)

 

[kallisti]

You fail at analogies. If no publisher picks up my novel I can shop it around to another publisher or just publish it myself and sell it on my website. There is always another option to sell a book, there are no other options with the app store.

I think the analogy holds reasonably well. In both cases you need a publisher/distributor to sell your product (if you are unable to interest ANY publisher in your novel, you are pretty much screwed. Publishing on your own website isn't likely to attract many readers or result in many sales...). In both cases the "approval" process may not seem fair. In both cases, you either revise your work and hope it now gets approved, or you start on a new project. While I don't have actual data, I'd be willing to bet quite a large sum of money that the approval rate for apps is quite a bit higher than for novels.

 

[JonHimself]

You fail at analogies. If no publisher picks up my novel I can shop it around to another publisher or just publish it myself and sell it on my website. There is always another option to sell a book, there are no other options with the app store.

Sure there are, you can release your app for a different platform... and even that has holes in it. Ultimately the analogy is bad from the start - as are most.

 

[epo]

Sure there are, you can release your app for a different platform... and even that has holes in it. Ultimately the analogy is bad from the start - as are most.

You can't release it for a different platform you have to recreate it because of different APIs, programming languages, platform capabilities, SDKs etc. With a book, you just send the MS elsewhere or at worst, print it out again.