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"An improvement is an improvement" is true, but to the extent that I would want to purchase the 2016 model over the 2015 one is subjective, hence why I say that it is not a clear-cut decision to pick either models.

The processor speed is increased by +0.1. I'm not really going to point fingers at Apple, because at the end of the day, Intel is severely lacking in upping the performance of these processors.

Next, anything will be a significant improvement over the M370X, which was just a rebranded 2XX card, which in it of itself was awful. So taking a below-average card like the mobile version of the 460 is nice, but is not something that I would seriously consider in spending at least $2600 in.

On top of that, I'll include one of the QC issues I meant here. The 2011-2013 models of the MacBook Pro were known to have a lot of issues concerning their dGPU's. I'm only specifying these, because even though the 2010 and 2014-2015 models were also affected, Apple laughably only acknowledges these three years of computers. I had my computers (2012 and 2015) affected as well, and one of the clear symptoms was when the computer screen froze, and I could do nothing but force shut down the computer. Well, we're already seeing reports of these things happening with the MacBook Pro 15", specifically the ones with the 460 card: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...and-new-mbp-2016.2015545/page-4#post-23939221.

Also, I'm sorry to say, but the battery life is shorter. But in terms of size and usage. The sizes of the batteries of the MacBook Pro's of the 13" and 15" variants are 74.9-watt-hour and 99.5-watt-hour respectively, from 2015. For 2016? 49.2-watt-hour and 79-watt-hour. That's a decrease of 34% and 20% respectively. That of course doesn't take into account the Skylake CPU's, which are more efficient, as well as the software-hardware integration. But how about the following reviews, which state the battery life is so-so compared to last year's?:

http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/733392/MacBook-Pro-2016-Touch-Bar-review
https://www.engadget.com/2016/11/14/macbook-pro-review-2016/
https://www.wired.com/2016/11/review-apple-macbook-pro-touch-bar/
http://arstechnica.com/video/2016/11/the-2016-13-and-15-inch-touch-bar-macbook-pros-reviewed/

And let's add in personal experience from fellow MacRumor users:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/13-touch-bar-6-hours-battery-life.2015213/page-5#post-23944575

Let's talk about dongles and adapters now, because that's most of the complaints I have. Apple has a "vision" for the future. Well, professionals have a vision of keeping their jobs and doing the most effective that they can do now.

Well, let's say I want a USB-C to the following: Lightning (To charge my own phone), Digital AV multiport adapter, and USB adapter. The total for these three cables will be $83.16 without tax. Ah, I forgot the SD card reader. Another $29. So over $100 in accessories that I need to buy right now. What a future, am I right?

I must have these four cables with me at all times. I like to hook my computer up to a monitor at work, as well as the one I have at home.

I will make the argument of, well what if I forget one of these cables one day to work? How will I show a presentation I have on my MacBook Pro in a conference? The only option then would be to embarrassingly send the file to my co-worker, and use his computer because it has an HDMI port that I can easily plug into. A counter argument will be made that, "Hey, just don't lose the adapters!" But unfortunately as humans, we are all prone to making mistakes. Can you imagine if I lose an adapter and I absolutely need one right away? I will need to run to the nearest Apple Store or Best Buy. Again, what a future.

It's also an added hilariousness that some USB-C adapters won't work at the same time with WiFi. Why? Well I've read that because any of these ports can charge the computer, a very minuscule amount of current ripple can occur over the connections, and because of this, it's evident that Apple failed to test peripherals properly. In other words, not only could Apple's own peripherals not work (Feel free to read the reviews on their own website), but it's not a far stretch that the ones on Amazon won't either.

Here's a demonstration of that:

Next, let's talk about MagSafe. A "small" sacrifice, you say? Hm. I can't count the number of times someone tripped over my laptop charger, whether it be at a library, a conference room, or another public place, and the charger simply plopped off the computer. Equating the term "small sacrifice" to my $2000-4000 computer being damaged doesn't really make sense to me, but okay.

In addition, let's talk about costs. Again, you'll have to see the "full" picture. In this case, what I wrote up up above, and on top of that, the costs. So let me spell that out: The battery life (Which is better on the 2015 models), the fact that I don't need to ever worry about dongles because the 2015 MacBook Pro's come with HDMI and SD card slots, as good of a screen as this year's, a less controversial keyboard, MagSafe, AND costs.

Funny how you never mention the QC issues, but hey, enjoy your new computer. I said in the beginning that it's okay if you want to purchase the new MacBook Pro. It is in my opinion that if you have anything older than the 2012 retina MacBook Pro, it is a worthy upgrade. But if you're trying to make a clear-cut argument that, "OF COURSE the 2016 model is better than the 2015," then no. I disagree, and I find it sad that people like you are trying to make it a much more black-and-white distinction than it already is, for people who are about to pay thousands of dollars for a device they will use for t

Yawn. To every single point you've attempted to make. Poorly.

You're ignoring fact and skewing arguments for the sake of defending the indefensible. Frankly, I've got much better things to do than debate meaninglessly with such arrogance and ridiculous predetermined opinion.
 
Yawn. To every single point you've attempted to make. Poorly.

You're ignoring fact and skewing arguments for the sake of defending the indefensible. Frankly, I've got much better things to do than debate meaninglessly with such arrogance and ridiculous predetermined opinion.

Please point these out. I'd love to have a conversation! But of course you'll take the easy way out in face of me actually putting facts. "BUT MUH OPINIONS!"
 
I already did, for the most part. As have others. Your approach to this is obvious - much more so than you think.

Again, you're not specifying. Which parts of my arguments in my expanded post are you not agreeing with? These latest posts from you have just been nothing of substance.
 
Again, you're not specifying. Which parts of my arguments in my expanded post are you not agreeing with? These latest posts from you have just been nothing of substance.

Can you please stop arguing the same points over and over and hijacking every thread? Your crusade against the MBP is obvious and most folks aren't falling for your sky-is-falling cries.
 
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Can you please stop arguing the same points over and over and hijacking every thread? Your crusade against the MBP is obvious and most folks aren't falling for your sky-is-falling cries.

Hijacking? I'm telling OP that I think the 2015 model is better than the 2016. I think it's equally hilarious that there are threads where people want to know that their $2000-4000 laptops were well-spent in an echo chamber, rather than knowing it themselves.

And as I said earlier, I think there are pros and cons to the 2015 and 2016 models. Saying one is clearly better than the other is not 100% showing both sides of the story.

It's not a "sky-is-falling" tactic. It's, "This MacBook Pro isn't the glorious upgrade everyone made it out to be. There are still good things associated with the 2015 model, so if you want it, you can save money on top of the other good things."
 
It is a glorious update, and if you make money using your computer and you need a new one I wouldn't think twice.

Is it a nice update? Yes. Do I think it is worth updating over the 2013-2015 models? No. I am planning to see what the next updates hold, as I see this as Apple trying things out for the first time, and for the next one, it'll be more fleshed out.
 
So far I've only spent one good day with the new 15" MBP....comparing against my 2012rMBP. I use LR and very very little PS. My main thing I wanted was faster generation of 1:1 previews. After today's testing the 2016 is actually matching my 2015 maxed out 27" 5KiMac. You can see the detailed tests in this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ghtroom-test-vs-12rmbp-and-15-5kimac.2016343/

Other than the initial LR tests....I'm really liking the decreased weight and footprint. The screen is noticeably better than the 2012. Matching the iMac. The touchbar so far has been useful to me in a number of ways and I hope Adobe brings it to LR along with the PS update they announced at the keynote. The keyboard is improved over my 2015 12"rMB. The speakers are way better than the 2012.

So far I'm really impressed...loving the USB-C...just simplifies everything and I have 4 ports to plug in 4 different card readers at once without using a hub( I currently shoot from 4 different cameras and have 4 different memory card types (SD, XQD, CF and CFast). I just replaced all my cables on the readers I already have so no dongles here. Also replaced the cables on my portable external drives I use for backup on the road before I return home to my main storage RAID.

Anyways, I can say the 2016 is a great laptop but that is coming from a 2012. I waited for the lighter/smaller update instead of updating in 2014 or 2015. So for me this makes sense. For you it could make sense to save money and still get a super awesome laptop in the 2015....
 
Is it a nice update? Yes. Do I think it is worth updating over the 2013-2015 models? No. I am planning to see what the next updates hold, as I see this as Apple trying things out for the first time, and for the next one, it'll be more fleshed out.
If you make your living as a photographer and using adobe cc and Lightroom, absolutely worth it to upgrade now.
 
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Thought I would way in. First I'm a long time commcerai Pro. Over 41 years. Yea old dog. LOL

I currently have a late 2013 15 16gb 1Tb drove and really a nice fast unit. This morning I ordered the 15 2.9/16gb/1Tb/460. Now some jobs I do besides heavy duty commercial work tethered and shooting advertising but I'm pretty mobile and need to process on location along with shooting tethered. But I do some gigs where I'm shooting up to 15k in a few days of images , processing time them out and uploading to sell images. I do a lot of diverse work. Now I do not use Lightroom and I do shoot Sony A7rII 42mpx chips so Raws are big. I use Capture One for tethering and all my processing. It's a little more processor based than ram based. Now overlooking the cool features like touch bar which really don't mean much to me. But what I see is faster Ram which has to help in processing but I also see really fast reads and writes like double what I'm getting today. So if I'm processing 5k in images at one time every second I can chew off the processing time is certainly welcome if you can gain a second on 5k worth of images. That's 5000 seconds. That means something if your still trying to shoot or get to the next event to shoot. So I'm guessing this may help my cause. Honestly I see on these threads it's about money. If your a business this means very little. I'm writing this whole thing off next month so really from a business perspective you gotta pay to play and in a expensive Profession that's a given. Now granted I wanted a BD present since I'm turning 60 so I find my own excuses to buy one. But I'm also thinking ahead with these ports and newer externals and such. Also someone mentioned Sandisk Pro readers are perfect for this computer. I have to import from the card to the session folder. FASTer means something when it's thousands of images. So sometimes even small upgrades buys time and that's money.

Seriously this may not make any sense for some but we all have our needs and wants. There is no real wrong answer

www.guymancusophotography.com
 
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The new mbp is great, handles Lightroom and photoshop better than my 2014 MBP, and SD card importing is many times faster.
The latter statement makes me curious. Have you actually measured the SD Card performance? According to System Report/USB/Card Reader, the integrated reader in a 2015 MBP has a maximum speed of 5 Gbit/s (i.e. it's connected using USB 3.0), which is several times as fast as the fastest SD Cards on the market (which currently provide 90 MByte/s). So, unless there is some other bottleneck, you should get the card's full performance using both the integrated and an external reader.
 
The latter statement makes me curious. Have you actually measured the SD Card performance? According to System Report/USB/Card Reader, the integrated reader in a 2015 MBP has a maximum speed of 5 Gbit/s (i.e. it's connected using USB 3.0), which is several times as fast as the fastest SD Cards on the market (which currently provide 90 MByte/s). So, unless there is some other bottleneck, you should get the card's full performance using both the integrated and an external reader.

I haven't measured it but I know that copying 60 40+MB RAWs (and 60 accompanying jpegs) off of the card took just a few seconds, where it would have taken much longer on my 2014 MBP. I have no experience with the 2015 model.
 
The latter statement makes me curious. Have you actually measured the SD Card performance? According to System Report/USB/Card Reader, the integrated reader in a 2015 MBP has a maximum speed of 5 Gbit/s (i.e. it's connected using USB 3.0), which is several times as fast as the fastest SD Cards on the market (which currently provide 90 MByte/s). So, unless there is some other bottleneck, you should get the card's full performance using both the integrated and an external reader.

Well as another data point, using an external CF reader on the 2012 vs the 2016, the 2016 copied the files over twice as fast. About 1min on the 2016 and 2mins on the 2012 for 104 50MP 5DSR files. Could be the SSD speed but then I imported to external USB3 drive and the 2016 still was twice as fast. May be that LR is generating small previews during import and that is where the 2016 shines. After the files were copied, the 2016 jumped ahead even more doing the 1:1 preview generation in Lightroom.
 
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The latter statement makes me curious. Have you actually measured the SD Card performance? According to System Report/USB/Card Reader, the integrated reader in a 2015 MBP has a maximum speed of 5 Gbit/s (i.e. it's connected using USB 3.0), which is several times as fast as the fastest SD Cards on the market (which currently provide 90 MByte/s). So, unless there is some other bottleneck, you should get the card's full performance using both the integrated and an external reader.


I'm wondering about this as well. There are Lexar 2000 cards that have reads and writes at 300 and you need a dedicated card reader for them. I'm curious to see if USB- C has faster throughput than USB 3. I'm still trying to figure this out as they are saying I believe 10gbit/s for USB-C. Which brings me to my Pegasus TB 2 external drives which I have 4 1Tb drives running Raid o and the reads and writes are above 500. Do I get even just a little faster clearing any bottlenecks with making it USB-C with just the adapter. I don't think I do maybe more a wish than anything else but if maybe a bottleneck in USB3 it may get faster. I know but wishful thinking
[doublepost=1479611491][/doublepost]
Well as another data point, using an external CF reader on the 2012 vs the 2016, the 2016 copied the files over twice as fast. About 1min on the 2016 and 2mins on the 2012 for 104 50MP 5DSR files. Could be the SSD speed but then I imported to external USB3 drive and the 2016 still was twice as fast. May be that LR is generating small previews during import and that is where the 2016 shines. After the files were copied, the 2016 jumped ahead even more doing the 1:1 preview generation in Lightroom.


Well the SSD on the 2016 is blazingly fast and maybe more than twice as fast as like my 2013 model. So we should be getting faster writes to SSD from our SD cards
[doublepost=1479611738][/doublepost]Check these out. I'm using the Lexar 1000 now at 150.

These are 300 . Now our cameras can't write this fast but uploading adding we can achieve these speeds to our computers

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co...ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876,92051677682,&Q=&A=details
 
Really stupid question: how can I do an SMC reset when there's no power button on this thing?
 
I'm wondering about this as well. There are Lexar 2000 cards that have reads and writes at 300 and you need a dedicated card reader for them. I'm curious to see if USB- C has faster throughput than USB 3. I'm still trying to figure this out as they are saying I believe 10gbit/s for USB-C. Which brings me to my Pegasus TB 2 external drives which I have 4 1Tb drives running Raid o and the reads and writes are above 500. Do I get even just a little faster clearing any bottlenecks with making it USB-C with just the adapter. I don't think I do maybe more a wish than anything else but if maybe a bottleneck in USB3 it may get faster. I know but wishful thinking
[doublepost=1479611491][/doublepost]


Well the SSD on the 2016 is blazingly fast and maybe more than twice as fast as like my 2013 model. So we should be getting faster writes to SSD from our SD cards
[doublepost=1479611738][/doublepost]Check these out. I'm using the Lexar 1000 now at 150.

These are 300 . Now our cameras can't write this fast but uploading adding we can achieve these speeds to our computers

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=1191363&gclid=CIXS2siuttACFQpmfgodpVgCXQ&is=REG&ap=y&m=Y&c3api=1876,92051677682,&Q=&A=details

Yes the SSD is fast, way faster than the 2012. However, even when I had the files directed to external USB3 drive, the 2016 still showed its advantage. In that case the only thing being written to the SSD were the thumbnail previews and insignificant bytes to the Catalogue file. There is something else speeding up the import/ingest other than the SSD speed.
 
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Yes the SSD is fast, way faster than the 2012. However, even when I had the files directed to external USB3 drive, the 2016 still showed its advantage. In that case the only thing being written to the SSD were the thumbnail previews and insignificant bytes to the Catalogue file. There is something else speeding up the import/ingest other than the SSD speed.


Good news . Maybe its just simply a headroom advantage with the new UBS-C connection. Maybe bad choice of words but simply more bandwidth
[doublepost=1479650842][/doublepost]
Good news . Maybe its just simply a headroom advantage with the new UBS-C connection. Maybe bad choice of words but simply more bandwidth


I just ordered mine yesterday the 15 with 16gb/1tb/460 through the business section at Apple and Im really on a time crunch to get one. I mean stupid time crunch like in LA for two weeks on a huge gig starting the 27th of December. They are trying to get me one ASAP, really these folks are sweethearts breaking their back to help. I bought my last high end one just by walking in the store , they do have them in stock but it is hidden to the public. Fingers crossed its my 60th BD present to myself also. LOL
 
Good news . Maybe its just simply a headroom advantage with the new UBS-C connection. Maybe bad choice of words but simply more bandwidth
[doublepost=1479650842][/doublepost]


I just ordered mine yesterday the 15 with 16gb/1tb/460 through the business section at Apple and Im really on a time crunch to get one. I mean stupid time crunch like in LA for two weeks on a huge gig starting the 27th of December. They are trying to get me one ASAP, really these folks are sweethearts breaking their back to help. I bought my last high end one just by walking in the store , they do have them in stock but it is hidden to the public. Fingers crossed its my 60th BD present to myself also. LOL

People are reporting that that config is the official "high end BTO" being stocked in stores. Many have walked in and walked out with that config. That is the config I got from my day 1 preorder. Its an awesome config and computer IMHO. Walk into a store and you will likely be able to purchase that one.
 
Its exactly how I got my 2013 unit. Even though I have my order in I am still going to walk in some stores regardless. If its their Im all over it. LOL.

Really happy to see these reports of some speed improvements going on especially the reads and writes as Im scrambling on those very heavy processing days to gain any time i can either through processing itself or uploading from the SD cards. Improvements are improvements and many of us are on serious deadlines to produce for our clients. Been doing this so dang long that these are the considered a edge on getting gigs.
 
People are reporting that that config is the official "high end BTO" being stocked in stores. Many have walked in and walked out with that config. That is the config I got from my day 1 preorder. Its an awesome config and computer IMHO. Walk into a store and you will likely be able to purchase that one.

I got the high end 13" from a local Apple Store on Friday. Walked in, described what I wanted and they had it in stock even in the color I wanted.
 
I'm wondering about this as well. There are Lexar 2000 cards that have reads and writes at 300 and you need a dedicated card reader for them. I'm curious to see if USB- C has faster throughput than USB 3. I'm still trying to figure this out as they are saying I believe 10gbit/s for USB-C.
The 10 Gbps version of USB (called "USB 3.1 gen 2") is indeed supported by USB-C, but it is an optional feature (and BTW, it can also be supported over the standard USB-A connector). But I doubt that any current USB-C SD Card reader uses it, simply because there are no SD Cards that would require anywhere near that much bandwidth.

The fastest SD Card that I have has 22 Mbyte/s transfer speed, and I get that full speed on the internal reader of my 2015 MBP, so I've had no reason to try a USB reader so far. But it would be interesting to know if anybody had observed a bottleneck on the internal reader with a faster SD card.
 
Thank you all for your posts, especially @Bryan Bowler @Guy Mancuso @arbitrage and @cmaier i really appreciate your perspectives.

In studio, I primarily shoot with a Canon 5DS R which is 50MP so file transfer is a huge concern tethered or dumping cards. I am sure the 2015 would be more than adequate for now and immediate availability is of course a plus. However, I am likely going to hang on to this for 4-5 years as it isn't my main workhorse so probably worth the wait. Cost isn't really that important but still part of the consideration.

I currently don't really edit on my MBA because I dislike the 13" screen size and quality. That may change on the new laptop and allow me to be a little more flexible. My studio is windowless and always cold so choose to do most of my post at my home office, perhaps I just need to find a better studio space instead lol.

If I could find a nMBP with a 460 would buy it today but been to 3 apple stores and all only have the stock configurations. I think it's worth the wait and am going to put an order in this week. If kevinkook's predictions of the MVP world coming to an end ar true, will cancel. Lol.

One thing I haven't really decided on is disk size. I don't really keep any files on my current laptop other than current project, everything gets offloaded to my desktop environment. It's nice to have the bigger ssd of course but think I might get more use out of putting that towards a portable external source that I can swap to my iMac and if it's fast enough, not even store any files on the internal ssd and then I don't even have to be copying back and forth. I currently have a few Samsung evo 840 1tb drives in portable USB 3 cases and they are pretty quick. Don't have the specs off the top of my head but in the 700mb/sec range. Having thunderbolt that can swap between devices would be good?
 
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