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No it isn't sarcasm, I'm not an idiot audiophile with huge piles of cash to drop on such things, I want a cost-effective solution that does what I want at a reasonable price, nothing you've said indicates that this is possible with existing products.
Ok, relax. So, your real issue is Airplay.
I know it could supply stereo sound, however I don't want to pay through the nose for a decent HT receiver when i'm only going to use two channels, my stereo speakers are 200wpc @ 8ohms so getting something that'd drive that for a reasonable price is impossible with home theatre receivers.
Everybody's "reasonable price" is different, and I couldn't verify yours from the first post, I think I have a better idea, now. And the power rating on speakers is not how you judge them, sound is. But that doesn't matter here, your question is about getting the sound to them.

It seems you feel that anytime you purchase something, you are paying a percent for each feature. So, a $300 receiver is $100 for amp, $100 for surround processing, and the rest for other features...and then you are wasting $100 since you don't want surround. You need to get over that. All these electronics devices are combining features so that every unit can do everything. You are going to get extra features that you don't want in anything you buy. I have features I have never used in my receiver. Just look at the total price, instead.
Besides, what do you mean "apple device" an airport express? I have one of those hooked up to a simple analogue amp and it doesn't support playing to it from an iOS device. An apple tv is again massively overkill as I have no need for such a device other than as a way of playing audio from a iOS device.
An Express or :apple:TV. I take it you have an older iOS device? Because I believe Airplay is supported from a iOS 4 to an Express. You do understand that the :apple:TV costs the same as an Express? It isn't out of the realm of reasonable to think someone might want to use it just for audio. Again, it isn't $50 for audio and $50 for Netflix, if it does what you need, and you can afford it, then the price is what it is.
I'm not made of money, buying a decent 7.1 receiver and then dropping that much on a pre-amp just to make it roughly do what I want would just be stupid. Why exactly would such a request ever be construed as "sarcastic"?
Because sarcasm is not obvious on a forum. You did bring up separate amp and preamp and used the words "high quality", that's why I posted a high-quality preamp for stereo use, in a very reasonable price range for what it is. Its 2nd nearest competitor costs $1500-2000 IIRC (nearest is $700), just so you know.
What I really want is something like this http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-US/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?PID=HK 3490 only with airplay compatibility. Is it that too much to ask for!?
Airplay is new, and proprietary to Apple. I'm not surprised there aren't that many devices supporting it outside of Apple. That HK would be very nice, augmented with streaming to your Express. Their amps are generally some of the higher quality ones at whatever price point you look at.

Options:
  • If you have iOS 4, it should stream to your Express from your iDevice, and you can use any receiver at all, optical or analog. I only have iOS 3 on my 1G iPod, so I can't personally verify the methodology. Yet.
  • Maybe you should consider storing your music on a computer of some sort so it's not all about the iPod or whatever you have. Airtunes is much easier with a computer as the source, since it supports every current version of iOS. (I guess I'm assuming you have a computer)
  • You could simply get a dock and connect directly to your audio system.

Frankly, I would have real concerns about a receiver/preamp with Airplay built in. What happens with iOS 5, when Apple changes something? Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon won't necessarily update your unit, just as likely they'll simply put it in next year's model. Or, what if it never works that great in the first place? There have been attempts at networked receivers in the past, it took years before Denon finally came out with a halfway decent one a few years ago. They were first.
 
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Excuse my ignorance -- but if I just want to play music from my iPhone/MacBook Pro through my home stereo, what's the benefit of an "Airplay" amp over a non-airplay amp that is hooked up to my Airport Express?
 
Excuse my ignorance -- but if I just want to play music from my iPhone/MacBook Pro through my home stereo, what's the benefit of an "Airplay" amp over a non-airplay amp that is hooked up to my Airport Express?
For the former, you don't need the Airport. Theoretically, read my last paragraph above for my thoughts on it.
 
Excuse my ignorance -- but if I just want to play music from my iPhone/MacBook Pro through my home stereo, what's the benefit of an "Airplay" amp over a non-airplay amp that is hooked up to my Airport Express?

They function exactly the same way, but buying the amp with the AirPlay feature built in saves you the hassle of buying and configuring the additional Airport Express, saves you the additional power outlet and audio cable, etc. Also it's slightly more convenient because apparently this Pioneer amp will automatically power itself up and switch itself to the AirPlay stream input when you start playing something, where if you have an Airport Express or Apple TV, you'll need to turn the receiver on yourself.
 
Well I guess it's time to upgrade my VSX-1020 receiver....damnit...missed it by one....ONE!!!

I also have a Pioneer 1020. I guess we could hope for a firmware upgrade to be essentially equivalent to a 1021, but I won't hold my breath.

Besides, if they are going to integrate AirPlay, why not also support video? I don't get it.
 
this pioneer receiver is not the same thing as an Apple TV - this is the central unit of the home theater/sound system. you plug all your speakers and devices INTO this receiver. if you have an apple TV, you would hook it's HDMI output into this receiver to give you 5.1/7.1 sound, and to manage your video.

Uh, thanks for that, but I don't have them confused. :confused:

What the grown-ups are talking about is the add-on sold by Pioneer that you have to have just to enable Wi-Fi. Which will only allow you to stream audio, apparently.

If I have an ATV2, I can stream video to it, hooked up via HDMI as you describe. And I can stream Netflix and maybe do a future ATV app store, and all the other things the ATV can do.

So why would I pay the same price for a receiver's add-on component with less functionality? Just because the Wi-Fi enabler says Pioneer on it? Nah, don't think so.
 
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Ok, relax. So, your real issue is Airplay.

Everybody's "reasonable price" is different, and I couldn't verify yours from the first post, I think I have a better idea, now. And the power rating on speakers is not how you judge them, sound is. But that doesn't matter here, your question is about getting the sound to them.

It seems you feel that anytime you purchase something, you are paying a percent for each feature. So, a $300 receiver is $100 for amp, $100 for surround processing, and the rest for other features...and then you are wasting $100 since you don't want surround. You need to get over that. All these electronics devices are combining features so that every unit can do everything. You are going to get extra features that you don't want in anything you buy. I have features I have never used in my receiver. Just look at the total price, instead.

An Express or :apple:TV. I take it you have an older iOS device? Because I believe Airplay is supported from a iOS 4 to an Express. You do understand that the :apple:TV costs the same as an Express? It isn't out of the realm of reasonable to think someone might want to use it just for audio. Again, it isn't $50 for audio and $50 for Netflix, if it does what you need, and you can afford it, then the price is what it is.

Because sarcasm is not obvious on a forum. You did bring up separate amp and preamp and used the words "high quality", that's why I posted a high-quality preamp for stereo use, in a very reasonable price range for what it is. Its 2nd nearest competitor costs $1500-2000 IIRC (nearest is $700), just so you know.

Airplay is new, and proprietary to Apple. I'm not surprised there aren't that many devices supporting it outside of Apple. That HK would be very nice, augmented with streaming to your Express. Their amps are generally some of the higher quality ones at whatever price point you look at.

Options:
  • If you have iOS 4, it should stream to your Express from your iDevice, and you can use any receiver at all, optical or analog. I only have iOS 3 on my 1G iPod, so I can't personally verify the methodology. Yet.
  • Maybe you should consider storing your music on a computer of some sort so it's not all about the iPod or whatever you have. Airtunes is much easier with a computer as the source, since it supports every current version of iOS. (I guess I'm assuming you have a computer)
  • You could simply get a dock and connect directly to your audio system.

Frankly, I would have real concerns about a receiver/preamp with Airplay built in. What happens with iOS 5, when Apple changes something? Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon won't necessarily update your unit, just as likely they'll simply put it in next year's model. Or, what if it never works that great in the first place? There have been attempts at networked receivers in the past, it took years before Denon finally came out with a halfway decent one a few years ago. They were first.



There are a lot of assumptions there, I don't own modern speakers, and I'm not going to trust them to a $300 surround sound receiver. I don't care about "waste" per say, I just want tangible benefit from money spent. For me to be bothered to replace my current analogue amp it's going to have to be comparable in quality. I already have an old pre-n airport express and it serves for now. I know power rating isn't everything but I just don't trust the outputs on such a receiver when they're designed to drive ickle satellite surround sound speakers, these things are 4' tall three way monsters with 12" bass cones, I don't want to risk them on such inexpensive mass produced modern kit. That may well be my prejudice and inexperience but having seen these things flounder on less well built ~100w amps I'm going to reserve a little scepticism.

My concern over price is merely that I want tangible benefit for investment, purchasing an apple tv just for the airplay feature wouldn't work for my current arrangement as I can't deal with an optical output without an expensive DAC, purchasing a $550 7.1 receiver, for that much I could build myself a KT88 based tube amp, something I've dreamt of doing for a couple of years now, or I could simply buy an expensive DAC and an apple TV with my current amp, it's just not worth paying that much for the functionality gained. This hacks me off.


No **** I have a computer that I play music off, that's how I listen to music, do you honestly think I'm sitting here ditsy little me with an iphone thinking "well ****, I can't play my music, I'm just going to wait until they make a stereo airplay receiver just for me"!? and even if I was such a moron you think I couldn't figure out how to connect an iphone to a phono input!? Dock or not?


I hate this mentality people have on forums of stuffing their unwanted assumptive advice down people's throats simply because they have the audacity to complain about something. My original point was merely that no manufacturer has produced anything for the stereo hifi enthusiast that works with airplay, I think this is a shame as if anyone did at a reasonable price point ($300-600) I'd gladly pay up.


I didn't ask you for your condescending advice, please keep it to yourself.
 
I didn't ask you for your condescending advice, please keep it to yourself.
I wasn't being condescending. Grow up. This happens to be an interest of mine, and I do know a few things.

And what am I too assume? That you know everything you need to know? Or nothing you need to know? Christ. I offer a high-end preamp that's cheaper than the receiver in this news story, you tell me it's too expensive. I offer low-end advice about Apple's equipment, but apparently you already know more than I do and tell me you can afford whatever. Fine.

So, last bit of help, one an audiophile would appreciate, and NOW I'll be condescending to validate your crap:
Wireless audio is ****. Run a wire. (that's what I do) http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229

Peace.
 
Awesome stuff. Still, the ultimate things I want to control from my iPhone are:

- Central heating in my house
- Turning the oven on/off
- Adjusting lights

Check out Control4.com

It's pricey but it's fantastic. As good as Crestron and AMX systems for half the price. They have iPhone and iPad apps that control what you want. And Apple TV. And everything audio and video. It's a great environment although, fair warning, it's a dealer installed environment. It isn't for the Do-It-Yourselfers/ Hackers.
 
My original point was merely that no manufacturer has produced anything for the stereo hifi enthusiast that works with airplay, I think this is a shame as if anyone did at a reasonable price point ($300-600) I'd gladly pay up.

You're right that there doesn't seem to be a product on the market that fills your need, but as an owner of both an Airport Express and an Apple TV, I can say that it really isn't that much of a hassle to buy either one and set it up to do what you want. Your total cost is only $99 over whatever stereo amp that you decide fits your needs.
 
Awesome stuff. Still, the ultimate things I want to control from my iPhone are:

- Central heating in my house
- Turning the oven on/off
- Adjusting lights

Your oven? Do you understand how monumentally stupid that is? HVAC and lights are one thing but you should never have remote control over a device like an oven.
 
I didn't watch the whole video ( I really can't stand watching/listening to smiley-faced corporate flacks spout irritating marketing jargon such as "the Apple lifestyle," Ugh!...) but did I see a composite video cable? Composite cable, in 2011? really?
 
Sold separately at what price?

If it's anywhere near the ATV2's price of $99, it's too much.

Seems like the ATV2 is a much more versatile HT add-on - and it does video.

If they're anything like Samsung and their wireless adapters for their bluray players you can expect to pay $60-$80.

this pioneer receiver is not the same thing as an Apple TV - this is the central unit of the home theater/sound system. you plug all your speakers and devices INTO this receiver. if you have an apple TV, you would hook it's HDMI output into this receiver to give you 5.1/7.1 sound, and to manage your video.

Yes, I think SuperCachetes knows that an AppleTV is not a full stereo reciever.
rolleyes.gif
He's talking about the wireless adapter being sold separately. His point is that if you have to pay that much for the special wireless adapter for cordless streaming you might as well just buy an AppleTV instead. The AppleTV will be the wireless link to your home network for Airplay then and connect to the Pioneer receiver as a regular input device.

Actually, since the AppleTV would be directly connecting to the home network and handling playback of audio files at that point you wouldn't even have a reason to buy this new special Pioneer receiver then. You can buy any receiver you want. So this product really is sort of DOA market-wise unless you already need to buy a new receiver and they make the wireless very cheap. When a $99 AppleTV can make any stereo receiver an iTunes playback device, who needs special amps?
 
I wasn't being condescending. Grow up. This happens to be an interest of mine, and I do know a few things.

And what am I too assume? That you know everything you need to know? Or nothing you need to know? Christ. I offer a high-end preamp that's cheaper than the receiver in this news story, you tell me it's too expensive. I offer low-end advice about Apple's equipment, but apparently you already know more than I do and tell me you can afford whatever. Fine.

So, last bit of help, one an audiophile would appreciate, and NOW I'll be condescending to validate your crap:
Wireless audio is ****. Run a wire. (that's what I do) http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229

Peace.

First you ask me if I'm being sarcastic, like saying what I said was so stupid that I couldn't possibly be serious, then you launch into full on audiophile froth mode based on assumptions with an attitude that frankly stinks.

Perhaps I should boil this down to something you understand: The only thing that would motivate me to buy more stuff for my system that pretty much does what I want with a couple of minor niggles (no remote, can't play stuff directly from iDevices, I dislike having an apple box hanging off it, no direct optical in) is if I was able to buy something to consolidate everything and work with everything that I have without a bunch of external boxes. If I wanted a decent pre-amp I'd be able to find my own, the only reason I mentioned them is I already have a decent power amp so replacing that doesn't seem necessary. This thread is about Airplay and fancy receivers which seek to do basically what I want just for surround sound users. I won't repeat myself describing what I'd like, I've said it enough times in this thread.

I'd rather you assume nothing, I've never said I know flat out more than you and honestly I doubt I do in all areas, I do however know more about my own needs and my own kit.

Your last point demonstrates your unsavoury attitude perfectly, my interest in airplay is simply one of occasional convenience and box convergence, I have a server sitting behind my tv with terabytes of media on it hooked up to my amp by wire. The appeal of airplay is simply for the times when I have something on my MBP and want to play it without faff, or if a guest visits and wants to show me a track they made or liked particularly that's on their laptop or iphone.

Instead you've declared "wireless audio" to be ****, pretty much pointedly as a dig at me.
 
Mord & JAT...

Thanks for all your posts in this thread (not being sarcastic here either - or making any assumptions about your respective expertise). Being a NB on this forum, looking at my setup, I've learned several things I didn't know:
- Pioneer is out of the plasma TV business (k, so much for my 40" I stare at now - was xlnt when I bought it some few years ago & still is);
- There have been several URLs referring me to home control 'stuff' I've bookmarked for later more in-depth reading / learning;
- Having converted to our current Minis, Airs, iPads n iPhones (I still have my DroidX though), we're morphing to a rather different world than before, so I appreciate all the (to me fresh) tidbits of info;
- I don't give a flip about whatever 'bantering' you throw at each other (prolly too old to care 'bout that much any more). Been a Deputy CIO at a large facility, tecchie, run SW Dev't orgs, run lotsa audio stuff (mainly, but do use my Dish DVR, DVDs, XM), etc, etc, ad nauseum so I have an appreciation (& limited understanding) for what subjects you post about;
- Will have to see what else you both have posted to gain other valuable learning;

In the end, again, thanks for the (to me) valuable info here. K, back to my iPad2 reading to see what I need to do to switch (BTW, 64GB WiFi only for us is where I'm going, FWIW).

John
 
All that tech and no dock?

They should have come up with a universal dock, or at least some way to hold the device upright.
 
Uh, thanks for that, but I don't have them confused. :confused:

What the grown-ups are talking about is the add-on sold by Pioneer that you have to have just to enable Wi-Fi. Which will only allow you to stream audio, apparently.

So why would I pay the same price for a receiver's add-on component with less functionality? Just because the Wi-Fi enabler says Pioneer on it? Nah, don't think so.


no offense taken.... or given... :) i was just clarifying for the audience that doesn't do home theater stuff, and relies on their TV speakers for all their audio. just a sidenote, this new functionality is built-in to the receiver, if you have it connected to Ethernet, they just force you to pay to add wi-fi to the receiver. i have the previous year's top-of-the-range pioneer, the VSK-1120k (non-pioneer elite) and i can do ipod/iphone audio to it 3 ways, with the included dock connector, a normal RCA cable, or with the $99 Bluetooth add-on to do A2DP streaming. my preferred way still however is over the Toslink Cable from my mac book pro laptop.
 
Yes, I think SuperCachetes knows that an AppleTV is not a full stereo reciever.
rolleyes.gif
He's talking about the wireless adapter being sold separately. His point is that if you have to pay that much for the special wireless adapter for cordless streaming you might as well just buy an AppleTV instead. The AppleTV will be the wireless link to your home network for Airplay then and connect to the Pioneer receiver as a regular input device.

Actually, since the AppleTV would be directly connecting to the home network and handling playback of audio files at that point you wouldn't even have a reason to buy this new special Pioneer receiver then. You can buy any receiver you want. So this product really is sort of DOA market-wise unless you already need to buy a new receiver and they make the wireless very cheap. When a $99 AppleTV can make any stereo receiver an iTunes playback device, who needs special amps?

yea i hear ya, pioneer does make a killer multi channel 3D receiver though. :)
 
does anyone have any thoughts of the Apple TV vs. the Boxee box?

i have a number of friends who have either:

Apple TV
Roku box
WD Tv Live

i like the form factor and the price of the Apple TV, but the boxee box looks like it supports the most formats
 
no offense taken.... or given... :) i was just clarifying for the audience that doesn't do home theater stuff, and relies on their TV speakers for all their audio. just a sidenote, this new functionality is built-in to the receiver, if you have it connected to Ethernet, they just force you to pay to add wi-fi to the receiver. i have the previous year's top-of-the-range pioneer, the VSK-1120k (non-pioneer elite) and i can do ipod/iphone audio to it 3 ways, with the included dock connector, a normal RCA cable, or with the $99 Bluetooth add-on to do A2DP streaming. my preferred way still however is over the Toslink Cable from my mac book pro laptop.

Fair enough. My ATV1 is hooked up to my Yamaha 7.1 (but non-networkable) receiver via HDMI and I can pull video from either the ATV HD, the iTunes store, or the iTunes library on my MBP. In my case, I wouldn't have felt like taking Ethernet to my entertainment center. The iPhone works fine as a remote, too. No complaints overall - and I'd bet that my combined cost was still less than or equal to this Pioneer unit plus its Wi-Fi accessory. ;)
 
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