Piracy Cripples iOS Game in Less than a Week

[melvinn]

Piracy happens. Whether we're talking about black flag sailing scallywags plundering ships for bounty, or the unauthorized duplication of 1's and 0's, piracy has always happened. It will always happen.

In the context of software duplication and distribution, the onus is on the software developer to plan and account for unauthorized users. (Why? Because piracy happens.) Developers have been doing so for decades. Product keys, phoning home, DRM schemes of several varieties, etc.

It would seem in this case the developer didn't effectively stop unauthorized players from joining their server. The only party at fault is the developer. (Why? Piracy happens.)

Other games in the Appstore with similar features and similar or higher levels of success (and piracy; it happens.) haven't folded. This would indicate there are effective ways to manage online access. Could Apple help more by offering x, y, or z? Absolutely. Is is absolutely necessary? Nope.

People here complaining that pirates ruin everything aren't seeing the forest for the trees. Because software copyright infringement (The unauthorized duplication/distribution of 1's and 0's) is impossible to stop, complaining about it is wasted energy. The onus has been on software developers for decades. And that's who/what failed here.

That's not to say I'm pro-piracy; I'm not. I just see it as an unavoidable fact of life.

----

An analogy to the argument of utilizing piracy for try-before-you-buy would be trying on shoes at a shoe store before buying them or putting them back on the shelf. Not shoplifting said shoes to try on at home.

----

And, if you buy a burger at a fast food outlet and it tastes off/bad, you can generally return the uneaten portion for a refund. Same scenario in a sit down restaurant, you definitely get a refund.

 

[hchung]

Apple needs to implement some sort of digital signing feature, that is linked to your iTunes account, and only gets activated when you make the purchase.
Then give devs some sort of way to deny access to any .ipa file that's hasn't gone through that process.
Surely there has to be a way, for Apple to add something like this, considering the App Store is the only gatekeeper?

The other way, is to make your game free, and have one IAP, to unlock the full content.

The IAP thing is the only solution that won't get some people up in arms.

Apple already signs it, already ties apps to your account. But this is all bypassed by jailbreaking. For that to succeed, Apple needs to successfully shut down jailbreaking.

 

[theluggage]

Theft is a generic term for taking something of value that doesn't belong to you.

The key word there is "taking" (i.e. depriving the original owner of it) rather than "copying".

The idea that "copying" could be wrong and intangible things could be owned is a very recent one compared with the concept of stealing - and the modern concept of quick, effortless, cheap copying as something that the average person in the street (rather than a writer or publisher) might do would still have been science fiction to the original authors of copyright law.

As I've already said - its not about whether piracy is wrong, it is about how serious it is and what measures can be justified to prevent it. The word "theft" is being used as an emotive term to justify a disproportionate reaction.

When someone invents the Star Trek replicator (or even as 3D printing and robotic machining improve) we'll have the same debate about physical objects and why I can't just make a copy of my car*.

(* Probably because the engine management unit contains software and World President i.am introduces the death penalty for software piracy in 2021).

 

[BaldiMac]

But people have been saying that they have only been jailbreaking to customize. You don't think they have really been jailbreaking to pirate software ?

"Jailbreaking to customize" is still copyright infringement. The DMCA exemption legalizing jailbreaking was specifically to allow installation of otherwise compatible applications. It does not allow for indiscriminate modification of the OS.

 

[ncaissie]

Originally Posted by bma
To all of those stuck on their high horses - have you never downloaded an MP3, or ripped a song off of youtube, only to discover you really like the band - and then go out and buy their CD, or (even better for the band) gone to see them live?

I suggest you read this - it's a really good editorial about Piracy, and some of the reasons people do it. http://www.neowin.net/news/editorial...hanged-my-life

Right

Not every band/musician plays live.. or for that matter, wants to. I quit music a while ago (professionally) because there is no way to make a living anymore as an artist. Only the high-end artists make it (a handful) Studios are shutting down, music labels are pushing singles instead of albums.. studio engineers, mixing personnel are working for peanuts., etc etc.

Speaking from personal experience, I put up a 30 second clip of one of my tracks on YouTube. Kinda like radio, right? If you like what you hear, you buy it. If not, no big deal. 90% of the comments were 'Where can I download this song for free?'

Seriously, people don't want to pay $0.99 for a song. And you might think, that oh well at least it's publicity. Guess what? The ones who download illegally, will continue to do so. They don't understand the time, effort and money that goes into making a song/ tv show/ movie, etc. If it's easily available, effortless to download, and best of all - without any consequences.. then why not do so?

He says people buy after hearing the song you say people steal. I say it's both. Some people are honest and some aren't. That's life. Get over it.

 

[Brian Y]

Sorry but you are a hypocrite. If you are "paid" to develop software as an employee then you should understand how much it "costs" to write software and "value" the work of others enough to pay for it if you obtain it or simply leave it alone if don't. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to play the game. If you eat food then you pay for it so why is the software, music, movie someone else produces be something you can take for free without consent?

I have been employed as a software developer for over a decade and I am also branching out into iOS on my own. I have also sung in live performances so I understand how hard it is to both write software and create a musical performance. Because of this, I don't pirate software, music, tv shows or movies. I value the work of others as an responsible adult should.

Don't be a digital hoarder because that is what pirates are. They take more than then could ever possibly need or use.

BTW. I used to jailbreak back in the old days before things like Installous existed and I even created some icon themes for winterboard. I stopped jailbreaking as soon as things like backgrounds became customizable. Eventually ringtones and alert tones were also customizable removing any last temptation to jailbreak. At that point, the risks outweighed the gains for me.

And if you bothered to read my posts I have explained how I have actually made more money due to the existence of piracy. That's not hypocritical, it's business. I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall here, but here goes:

I know that

- A: There is no cost-per unit to me of distributing my software digitally (I'm ignoring the "server/bandwidth aspect here - this is a hypothetical example).

- B: Piracy isn't going away.

Therefore I expand my **user base** by:

- A: Not disabling pirated copies. Having somebody pirate my software costs me nothing. I am no worse off if somebody is using my software. I don't believe in this whole "potential sale" BS that various industries like to throw around - if my software wasn't available, they'd just pirate something else.

- B: Inserting a reminder/link back to my website - constantly reminding people that they're using a pirated copy.

And monetize this by:

- A: Selling support requests to pirated installs. For complex server software, pirates are just as likely to run in to problems - in fact, they're more likely to run into issues since the software is probably more than they need. (10% of my revenue)

- B: Reminding users, in the admin panel, that they are using a pirated version, and asking them to buy a license. (Nothing is ever disabled) (£10k in sales)

- C: Adding adverts to the admin panel of pirated users, with another message saying that they'll be removed if they register. (Only small $$, but it's an annoyance to pirates).

I don't see what part of this concept is so hard to grasp. If my software hadn't been pirated - I'd lose two large revenue streams, and 1 smaller one, which = less money. I'll dig into a few more numbers for you. According to my install tracker, ~60% of known installations of my software are pirated. Now, given that a lot of pirates probably install it, think they dont like it and uninstall it, the real life number is probably lower (my best estimate is about 20% pirated "active" installs).

Now, consider the fact that 10% of my revenue comes from supporting pirated users. If I cut off the pirated versions, I would need to approximately 28.5% of people who would have pirated the software to buy it in order to maintain my current revenue levels, and I know for a fact, that would never happen.

Again, I don't really see what's so hard to grasp with this concept - yes, people pirating your app can increase revenue if managed correctly. It increases exposure, widens your user base, and provides the opportunity for additional revenue streams.

 

[hchung]

[/COLOR]One thing that pisses me off and I wish Apple would ban is in app purchases.
Specially these *******s that say do you want this? And don’t even give you the price. They could be charging you $100 and you wouldn’t know it. I am happy there is a way to turn it off but it still pisses me off. Just make a demo and charge for the full game you greedy pigs.

----------



Exactly. What did they use a 386 for a server?
I believe they did it as an excuse for some reason.

1) I recall that all in app purchases are forced to show a confirmation with the price. So you're never stuck with a unknown charge unless you just don't feel like reading.

2) You obviously don't know how much cost there is in running a server.

Consider this. If you have 10000 users, and each tries to connect to send one byte. You've just done 10kB. Obviously you need more than 1 byte to make a game meaningful. So say you need 1kB per user. If everybody logs on all at once to play, you've just maxed out a 10/100 ethernet port.

And then you need to pay for bandwidth.

And then you also have to consider that having 10000 users for a multiplayer game is a pretty sad userbase. So keep multiplying your costs from there.

 

[chrono1081]

actually he made several valid arguments

I'm not the one making myself look stupid, it is not theft. From the Theft Act, 1968:

I wonder how many people here have say maybe... copied a recipe from a friends cookbook. you didnt buy that book, he/she did.. you copied that information from that book without buying the intellectual rights to it.

so lets argue this and see where it gets you "piracy is theft" lunatics.

How on earth is piracy not theft? No offense but you are 100% wrong. There is no possible way to say other wise.

Splitting hairs like bma did only makes you look silly. Stealing is stealing. Taking something someone else is selling without paying for it is stealing. End of discussion.

 

[phr0ze]

Pirating is just using something in a way that you don't have the proper license. Its the license thats being sold, not the copy.

Everyone here is a pirate in one way or another. I could name hundreds of ways we have all been caught up, but here are some things people don't think of.

• Using student edition OS or software for non-student things, beyond college, or buying a copy for mom.
• Putting a picture or graphic on a flyer without paying for it
• Commercially using a clip art from software you bought. (business cards, etc).
• Forwarding an email which contained a cute graphic, poem, or inspirational message. Heck even recieving that message.
• Grabbing your photo off a website provided by a photographer or event.
• Putting your senior/yearbook photo on facebook
• Using an graphic that you don't have a license for as your avatar

Sorry, all these people who are creating things also deserve to be paid for their work. And we all sit here justifying it one way or another but really only get upset if it directly affects our particular business/life.

 

[ncaissie]

1) I recall that all in app purchases are forced to show a confirmation with the price. So you're never stuck with a unknown charge unless you just don't feel like reading..

1) I have yet to see an app show me the cost of an in app purchase. For example I had to go to the app in the app store and look at the most popular inapp purchases to find out that the Atari games cost $9.99 to buy all the games. (Just got an iCade cab.)

2) You obviously don't know how much cost there is in running a server.
Consider this. If you have 10000 users, and each tries to connect to send one byte. You've just done 10kB. Obviously you need more than 1 byte to make a game meaningful. So say you need 1kB per user. If everybody logs on all at once to play, you've just maxed out a 10/100 ethernet port.

And then you need to pay for bandwidth.

And then you also have to consider that having 10000 users for a multiplayer game is a pretty sad userbase. So keep multiplying your costs from there.

2) I have been an application and web application developer (Java and .Net for over 13 years. I am a member of the iOS development group. I am in the beginning of the Stanford Developing Apps for iOS.

 

[Brian Y]

How on earth is piracy not theft? No offense but you are 100% wrong. There is no possible way to say other wise.

Splitting hairs like bma did only makes you look silly. Stealing is stealing. Taking something someone else is selling without paying for it is stealing. End of discussion.

I've presented the evidence, and a quote directly from UK law backing it up. If you choose to remain ignorant of this and continue bickering, that's your choice. How is showing that I've earned money from pirates of my own software splitting hairs?

I don't see how that logic is so hard to grasp?

And I may look silly but you look childish - I know which I'd rather be

 

[chrono1081]

I've presented the evidence, and a quote directly from UK law backing it up. If you choose to remain ignorant of this and continue bickering, that's your choice. How is showing that I've earned money from pirates of my own software splitting hairs?

I don't see how that logic is so hard to grasp?

And I may look silly but you look childish - I know which I'd rather be

Like I said, I don't care what "definition" you come up with, taking something you didn't pay for is theft. Its been that way for thousands of years and its not going to change because some law in your country says its not quite the same thing.

I challenge you to get caught by RIAA and see if the judge favors you because "pirating isn't stealing".

 

[ericrwalker]

Well when I look up the definition of "Steal" I would say piracy is stealing, if you steal are you not a theft? Sorry but you can post all the UK law you want, but you're a theft if you are stealing software.

I've presented the evidence, and a quote directly from UK law backing it up. If you choose to remain ignorant of this and continue bickering, that's your choice. How is showing that I've earned money from pirates of my own software splitting hairs?

I don't see how that logic is so hard to grasp?

And I may look silly but you look childish - I know which I'd rather be

 

[phr0ze]

Like I said, I don't care what "definition" you come up with, taking something you didn't pay for is theft.

Like your avatar?

 

[ericrwalker]

Like I said, I don't care what "definition" you come up with, taking something you didn't pay for is theft. Its been that way for thousands of years and its not going to change because some law in your country says its not quite the same thing.

I challenge you to get caught by RIAA and see if the judge favors you because "pirating isn't stealing".

I agree with you 100%, but these are the "loopholes" that are put into law (most likely not always intentional), that get people off the hook for all kinds of crimes. Then people use these laws for definition, rather than the actual meaning of the word to try to justify something they did wrong.

 

[Brian Y]

Like I said, I don't care what "definition" you come up with, taking something you didn't pay for is theft. Its been that way for thousands of years and its not going to change because some law in your country says its not quite the same thing.

I challenge you to get caught by RIAA and see if the judge favors you because "pirating isn't stealing".

If they did, it would be in a civil case, not a criminal case, because, wait for it, it's *not* theft. Jesus.

You may not care what definition I come up with, but that is THE definition of theft. You can't say "well this is what X is but I don't care, because X is actually this, and I'm not willing to listen to any logical debate otherwise".

 

[BaldiMac]

I've presented the evidence, and a quote directly from UK law backing it up

No, you presented one section from a UK law that you apply a limited interpretation to and refuse to consider any other definitions of the word.

The law that you quoted specifically includes intangible property. And piracy does involve the intent to permanently deprive the developer of their property rights. You can't undo the fact that you created an illegal copy.

 

[Brian Y]

Well when I look up the definition of "Steal" I would say piracy is stealing, if you steal are you not a theft? Sorry but you can post all the UK law you want, but you're a theft if you are stealing software.

Stealing: Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".

You aren't taking anything, you're duplicating it.

Look, I'm not pro-piracy, and I don't pirate myself. I'm just looking at this logically and trying to debate the topic (is that not the point of a forum - to debate the pros and cons of both sides of an argument)?

 

[ericrwalker]

You aren't taking anything, you're duplicating it.

Look, I'm not pro-piracy, and I don't pirate myself. I'm just looking at this logically and trying to debate the topic (is that not the point of a forum - to debate the pros and cons of both sides of an argument)?

Oh lord, you took a copy of it. smh

 

[BaldiMac]

You aren't taking anything, you're duplicating it.

Of course you are taking something. You are taking the copy.

 

[koban4max]

Here's what customers can do to reduce piracy: Buy the game instead of stealing it!

All the things you say do not one thing against piracy. They just increase the cost and reduce the income from those who pay. Pirates are going to steal anyway.

Wrong. Some people pirate apps due to high price. Games may be fun... but to pay a game that is almost 20 bucks is definitely not worth it to those gamers. In app discourage people to buy their apps. So... Stop bashing on those people and quit using your philosophy on them.

 

[AriX]

Piracy sucks. But it sounds like this developer needs a lesson in how to deal with it.

Release a new copy of the app using trickier, more subtle protection. For example, on app startup, ensure the app has not been modified, and when connecting to the server, send down a hash of the binary, or a signature, which can be verified and refused if invalid. Obviously, some of these methods can be cracked, but if you put in enough, people will probably give up. There are a lot of ways of doing this; the big game companies do it all the time. This developer is doing it wrong.

 

[phr0ze]

Consider this. If you have 10000 users, and each tries to connect to send one byte. You've just done 10kB. Obviously you need more than 1 byte to make a game meaningful. So say you need 1kB per user. If everybody logs on all at once to play, you've just maxed out a 10/100 ethernet port.

And then you need to pay for bandwidth.

And there is the real culprit. Seriously how did they think a 1 time payment of $5 was going to cover this bandwidth month after month.

Either they realised the serious flaw in the pricing model and blamed it on pirates or they never intended users really play it and were hoping for the 'gym membership' effect.

If all the users were legit and there were no pirates, I doubt an extra $5 from 7000 users ($3500) would have covered enough to run month after month.

Not saying I favor the pirates, I'm just saying they were going to fail anyways.

 

[EvilMole]

Therefore I expand my **user base** by:

- A: Not disabling pirated copies. Having somebody pirate my software costs me nothing. I am no worse off if somebody is using my software. I don't believe in this whole "potential sale" BS that various industries like to throw around - if my software wasn't available, they'd just pirate something else.

- B: Inserting a reminder/link back to my website - constantly reminding people that they're using a pirated copy.

And monetize this by:

- A: Selling support requests to pirated installs. For complex server software, pirates are just as likely to run in to problems - in fact, they're more likely to run into issues since the software is probably more than they need. (10% of my revenue)

- B: Reminding users, in the admin panel, that they are using a pirated version, and asking them to buy a license. (Nothing is ever disabled) (£10k in sales)

- C: Adding adverts to the admin panel of pirated users, with another message saying that they'll be removed if they register. (Only small $$, but it's an annoyance to pirates).

I don't see what part of this concept is so hard to grasp. If my software hadn't been pirated - I'd lose two large revenue streams, and 1 smaller one, which = less money. I'll dig into a few more numbers for you. According to my install tracker, ~60% of known installations of my software are pirated. Now, given that a lot of pirates probably install it, think they dont like it and uninstall it, the real life number is probably lower (my best estimate is about 20% pirated "active" installs).

Now, consider the fact that 10% of my revenue comes from supporting pirated users. If I cut off the pirated versions, I would need to approximately 28.5% of people who would have pirated the software to buy it in order to maintain my current revenue levels, and I know for a fact, that would never happen.

Again, I don't really see what's so hard to grasp with this concept - yes, people pirating your app can increase revenue if managed correctly. It increases exposure, widens your user base, and provides the opportunity for additional revenue streams.

Anyone who will pirate software will ignore the kinds of "please pay me" notices you're talking about. I know developers who have had *complaints* from people who've pirated software and been nagged in exactly the way you describe.

There's a really good, simple test of whether something is good or bad. I call it the "What if everyone did this?" test. If you're thinking of doing something, ask "what if everyone did this?" Would the consequences be good or bad.

Apply that to software piracy, and you end up with no software industry - or with ****** freeware (I hope Freecell is your favourite game).

I don't give a crap about the definitions of whether "piracy" is "theft". Those are the inane witterings of people seeking to justify what they do, when they know it's wrong.

If everyone pirated, there would be no software industry. That's all I need to know. That's why I don't pirate.

 

[hchung]

I'm no game programmer but let me help them out.
Feel free to use the below code without giving me an ounce of credit!


[logon]
Check appleid.user vs paid.database
if appleid.user in paid.database

allow on

else

kick off with pirate.message

[end logon]

It's not that hard to implement, is it?
Or maybe piracy is a nice excuse for not having the infrastructure actually needed.

It's hard to implement because Apple respects Apple's customer's privacy.
So.... there's no "appleid" to compare to.