Pirating Sucks

[WinterMute]

The argument that it's alright to steal music because it's easy to do and everyone does it falls apart very quickly. This is not a "victimless crime" and the caveat that it's excusable because the big, bad record industry doesn't deserve to make hugh profits is laughable and self-serving.

If you want to steal music, go ahead, enjoy it. You are breaking the law. The only reason you're unlikely to be caught is because so many people do it. That the agendas behind those laws are all about money it's unfortunately true, but this is the world we live in, naked capitalism.

If I steal someone's car (easy enough to do) am I breaking a law? Of course I am. The difference is I'm taking someone else's physical property which cannot be duplicated. When you steal my music you are taking my property, intellectual property, which I have as much right to enjoy as the car owner. Be in no doubt you are costing me money, piracy is theft however you choose to justify it yourself.

Steal music, don't steal music, your choice, the fact that most commercial music is crap is not an excuse, and the more you steal the less money will be available for musicians to make ANY music let alone good stuff.

It's almost impossible to make a career out of music anymore precisely because of the actions of a lazy, ignorant, immoral, thieving majority, if you are comfortable with that fine, steal away. The recording industry is failing, it has no response to this problem and is hoping to rely on DRM... Apple have shown that legal downloads can be successful, although the word is that iTMS has only just become profitable.

The bottom line is TANSTAAFL, illegal downloading is killing my industry.

It's not going to stop, it may be mitigated by the actions of organisations like the RIAA, but thats unlikely in the long run.

MacRumors does not condone piracy in any form, we take a deliberately moral stance on this because we are on public view and we are right to do so. We are right to allow the discussion of the issue but we will not tolerate the posting of information about how it can be achieved.

If you want to enjoy good music in the future, pay for it now, stop being lazy and immoral, pay the musicians whose work you enjoy to produce more.


Is this a rant? Probably, but try to imagine having your house burgled every single day and you might begin to see how I feel about piracy.

 

[xparaparafreakx]

I stop using limewire for about 6 months and by this summer I plan to replace all the songs on my iTunes with real ones. Its a struggle to find those j-pop, k-pop songs and CDs iTunes don't carry and stores in town dont have.

Does anyone know if its legal to copy apps to my backup computer, TiBook? Theres only one user and I am getting a MBP 17 with all ligit apps.

 

[7254278]

Guys before I comment I would like to make it clear, I DO NOT SUPPORT THE DOWNLOADING OF MUSIC. I do however think that a new album shouldnt not cost 20 friggin bucks!

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

I do however think that a new album shouldnt not cost 20 friggin bucks!

This is when I'm quite thankful for being in Alabama. New CDs typically cost $10 or $12 here.

 

[zweigand]

Guys before I comment I would like to make it clear, I DO NOT SUPPORT THE DOWNLOADING OF MUSIC. I do however think that a new album shouldnt not cost 20 friggin bucks!

Go to Amazon.com instead.

 

[miyamoto]

Playing devil's advocate-

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/cmusings/2006/04/05

http://www.narip.com/index.php?page=article/Shrinking

Not to justify copyright infringement but the passionate indignation of some in this post about artists being the victim of lazy morons seems a bit excessive. You're right, its not a victimless crime but the file swappers are least of your worries. Personally would be more worried about someone claiming origination of my work and selling it as such.

 

[idkfa]

If it is a local band or someone that I really like, I will definitely buy their music. However, if I happen to like a single song out of an artist's repetoire of 1000's, I will download it without paying.

I would like to clarify what was said before about Canadian Copyright laws and piracy. While it is true that we pay levy's on all forms of electronic copying media (CD-R, DVD-R, etc.), there are movements to change this as it is assuming guilt on the part of everyone who is buying this things. Even if 99% of people are using these products to pirate, you cannot charge someone who is backing up their legitimate documents a levy that assumes they are pirating.

In Canada, you can make a copy, either digital or physical, of any electronic media or software that you own (with exception to DVD movies, which for some reason are illegal to copy in Canada). You can then take this copy and "loan" it to any number of people, either by physically giving them it, or uploading it and distributing it online. This is perfectly legal unless you are making a profit of it, which is where loopholes start to form. The fact that you are downloading it for free is why it is legal. You may be losing money on it, but the people who are uploading it are usually not making anything. Unless of course they are charging for it, which is illegal in Canada.

There have been attempts to stop all forms of piracy in Canada, but to no avail.

I guess the problem with music is that unlike other products that are often pirated, it does not constitute something that is tangible.

Also, for Indie bands and performers, unless you actually take steps to protect your music, either through copyright, or other defensive means, your product is open to anyone who wants it. It may be considered an original work, but you still need to take legal steps to at least protect it against people who are somewhat law abiding.

 

[jamdr]

This is ridiculous. His chances of getting sued are very, very slim. There are literally millions of people in the US who pirate music and the RIAA has sued a few dozen of them for a couple thousand dollars. He has nothing to worry about. You'd be more likely to die in a car crash tomorrow than get sued by the RIAA. Honestly, and I know this is difficult for 12 year old kids to understand, it's not your job to enforce copyright laws. Just mind your own business, keep producing music that's so popular you have to worry about people stealing it, and writing your own OS.

In my opinion, it's not up to consumers to change the way they get music (whether that's from Limewire, iTunes, or CDs), it's up to the RIAA to figure out what consumers want and a way to sell it to them. Isn't that the way business is supposed to work? What genius came up with the business model of suing your customers to get them to buy your product?

ps--this is coming from someone who buys about 3-4 CDs a month and hasn't pirated a song since the Napster days.

 

[someguy]

You'd be more likely to die in a car crash tomorrow than get sued by the RIAA.

I didn't realize driving was that risky..

 

[dextertangocci]

Firstly, We don't have the iTunes music store in South Africa yet, or any other legitimate download service, unless you count the limited selection on some CD retailers' websites, which costs the same amount as if you buy the CD, which brings me to another point. They charge ridiculously high prices for CD's, and I think Steve Jobs is right, the record companies are getting greedy. I mean, how can you expect the majority of people to spend all that money on a CD, and only get one or two songs you actually like, when they have the option of getting it for free? Every body I know uses limewire, or other p2p filesharing programs, and in my opinion, will continue to do so until they either drop the prices of CD's, or offer a legal dowload service, preferably the Itunes music store.

Secondly, can I be sued if caught using limewire? Can the RIAA sue me even though I live in South Africa?

 

[Sutekidane]

I stop using limewire for about 6 months and by this summer I plan to replace all the songs on my iTunes with real ones. Its a struggle to find those j-pop, k-pop songs and CDs iTunes don't carry and stores in town dont have.

Does anyone know if its legal to copy apps to my backup computer, TiBook? Theres only one user and I am getting a MBP 17 with all ligit apps.

Yesasia.com is your best friend! I get all my kpop there! :-D

 

[jamdr]

I didn't realize driving was that risky..

If you mean to say that you don't believe that's accurate, I think it is. On average, the RIAA has sued about 6,000 people per year since it started suing people in 2003. It is estimated that 60 million Americans illegally download music. So that's a 0.010% chance of getting sued (grossly unscientific, but you get the point).

It's estimated that the chance of dying in a transportation-related accident (includes airplanes and such) is like 0.017% in any given year. So I don't think this kid's friend has anything to worry about.

 

[idkfa]

Firstly, We don't have the iTunes music store in South Africa yet, or any other legitimate download service, unless you count the limited selection on some CD retailers' websites, which costs the same amount as if you buy the CD, which brings me to another point. They charge ridiculously high prices for CD's, and I think Steve Jobs is right, the record companies are getting greedy. I mean, how can you expect the majority of people to spend all that money on a CD, and only get one or two songs you actually like, when they have the option of getting it for free? Every body I know uses limewire, or other p2p filesharing programs, and in my opinion, will continue to do so until they either drop the prices of CD's, or offer a legal dowload service, preferably the Itunes music store.

Secondly, can I be sued if caught using limewire? Can the RIAA sue me even though I live in South Africa?

I would not be worried about the RIAA, but there is a group known as the International Recording Media Association (IRMA) that the RIAA has formed a coalition with. That is about all I know. Do some more research if you are still curious.

Cheers.

 

[someguy]

If you mean to say that you don't believe that's accurate, I think it is.

No, I was just making a sarcastic comment directed at those who think they will be sued if they download music illegally when in reality, the odds are slim to none (as already stated by you and others).

I'll admit that I download (via p2p) the majority of the music I listen to. The only time I pay for music is if the band or artist whose music I wish to acquire is not already filthy stinking rich. I know I'm not as righteous as most of you, but.. eh.

 

[EricNau]

No, it's copyright violation. There's a very clear (and important) difference.

First of all, whatever you want to call it, it is breaking the law.

The end result is the same whether you download it illegally or steal the CD from Walmart: you are obtaining the song without paying for it.

Stop trying to justify it in any way; it just is not possible.

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

Stop trying to justify it in any way; it just is not possible.

Get off your high horse, my friend. I wasn't justifying anything.

I was simply stating that downloading music is *not* stealing. Piracy is *not* stealing. They are violations of copyright laws.

 

[eva01]

Get off your high horse, my friend. I wasn't justifying anything.

I was simply stating that downloading music is *not* stealing. Piracy is *not* stealing. They are violations of copyright laws.

wait so getting something by not paying for it is not stealing?

so i can go into a music store and take CDs off the rack and not pay for it and it isn't stealing?

or i can go into the apple store and grab photoshop and final cut studio and not pay for it and i wont be arrested for stealing since it isn't stealing?

 

[regre7]

I was simply stating that downloading music is *not* stealing. Piracy is *not* stealing. They are violations of copyright laws.

Stealing:
1. to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an habitual or regular practice

I use file sharing occasionally, usually as my fallback if I can't find it on iTMS. For example: Halo 2, Vol. 2 soundtrack, which I would've downloaded (albeit likely incomplete) if I didn't love Bungie and Marty. I don't say that it's right, but corporate America (or the world, for that matter) isn't exactly honest either.

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

I use file sharing occasionally [...]

While I appreciate the effort that goes into finding a definition to prove me wrong, no transaction of property takes place when you download an album.

It's copyright violation, man. It's a semantic debate, at best, but there is a distinct difference.

 

[ChrisBrightwell]

wait so getting something by not paying for it is not stealing?

That's not what I said. I said that downloading music is a violation of copyright.

so i can go into a music store and take CDs off the rack and not pay for it and it isn't stealing?

No, because you're stealing a tangible asset. You're not opening the CD, ripping it, and putting it back on the shelf.

or i can go into the apple store and grab photoshop and final cut studio and not pay for it and i wont be arrested for stealing since it isn't stealing?

You probably wouldn't be arrested if you copied those apps onto your iPod from a demo machine (as that would simply be a copyright violation), but you would probably be arrested if you picked up a box of discs and walked out the door (since that would be stealing).

 

[slu]

<rant>

With the excpetion of a few sane people here, this thread is so filled with ignornace, it is laughable.

In my opinion, there is no way to justify the illegal downloading of music.

"It's because the music is crap" - Then you shouldn't have to download anything all. Or pick up a guitar and write your own song for free.

"It's because it is too expensive" - I think eating out can be too expensive, so I guess I'll start dining and dashing.

"You are only taking money from a corporation, not the artists" - Well then I am never going to pay for any clothes again, because all that money goes to a corporation. Or gas. Or food. etc.

"It's not on iTunes" - Well, back when I was in college (only 8 years ago), before Amazon and iTunes, we got CDs at stores. And if a CD I wanted was not stocked in the store, they would order it for me and call me when it came in. Guess what, it still works this way. And you can order online!

I have a feeling that everyone here that steals music is less than 20 years old and can't make one note of music themselves. You all need to grow up and start doing the right thing. You are screwing hundreds of people by downloading music, and you should feel guilty about it. If you wouldn't dine and dash or you wouldn't steal from Wal-Mart, then stop stealing music.

</rant>

 

[eva01]

You probably wouldn't be arrested if you copied those apps onto your iPod from a demo machine (as that would simply be a copyright violation), but you would probably be arrested if you picked up a box of discs and walked out the door (since that would be stealing).

I will ask the apple store manager in braintree on friday if i would be arrested or not for downloading software to my iPod from the demo machines.

 

[EricNau]

This thread should be closed. It started out as an innocent question and some members had to chime in justifying and defending illegal activities.

 

[savar]

well, im a teenager who occasionaly does live shows, so making $ isn't a priority, i just love playing music!

Then don't complain about the money.

 

[savar]

I have a feeling that everyone here that steals music is less than 20 years old and can't make one note of music themselves. You all need to grow up and start doing the right thing. You are screwing hundreds of people by downloading music, and you should feel guilty about it. If you wouldn't dine and dash or you wouldn't steal from Wal-Mart, then stop stealing music.

</rant>

...speaking of ignorance...