Pismo Power!

[AphoticD]

The tiny sliver of a shim was factory fitted in this Pismo and not in conjunction with the thermal pads. I can vaguely recall seeing this same arrangement in my old iBook G3 800Mhz about 15 years ago.

---------
Heatsink
---------
Thermal compound
---------
Aluminum shim
---------
Thermal compound
---------
PowerPC 750 CPU

I don't know why they put it there, but I decided to reinstate it anyway. There is no gap between the CPU and heatsink on the Pismo.

Maybe someone can shed some light on this one?
[doublepost=1505489842][/doublepost]I'll go with what @LightBulbFun said.

 

[AphoticD]

Well, I can cross the CF Card as a boot device option off the list.

Here's Xbench benchmark of an old 4GB CF card I had from an Olympus E-410.

This is using a DoCoMo CF-PCMCIA adapter. Even worse than being slow, it monopolizes 100% of the CPU during read/write. I imagine this wouldn't be the case with a CF-IDE adapter, but as it is, This CF-PCMCIA setup is about as fast as a USB 1 thumb drive.

I tried a few different brands of CF cards. Some fared slightly better, but nowhere near HDD speeds, let alone SSD speeds.

 

[philgxxd]

Hilarious!

 

[MagicBoy]

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. PCMCIA is effectively a 16-bit ISA slot, and doesn't have DMA.

Cardbus is 32-bit, and similarly based on PCI so that's vastly quicker at up to 133MB/sec with bus mastering. I've never encountered a CF-Cardbus adaptor as yet though.

 

[AphoticD]

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest. PCMCIA is effectively a 16-bit ISA slot, and doesn't have DMA.

Cardbus is 32-bit, and similarly based on PCI so that's vastly quicker at up to 133MB/sec with bus mastering. I've never encountered a CF-Cardbus adaptor as yet though.

I'm guessing the lack of DMA would mean all I/O operations go through the CPU instead of being bus controlled?

I read somewhere that CF and PCMCIA share a common interface and the adapter doesn't do much more than redirect pins between the CF card and the socket.

With this in mind I expected better results from my 1.5Ghz PBG4. It is slightly more usable, But still slow and under full CPU load in Leopard, Tiger and Panther.

Im not going to buy a recent CF card just for testing though. Slow I can handle but full throttle CPU usage to transfer files at <2MB/sec is just pitiful.

 

[AphoticD]

Pismo Status update:

• New battery arrived and installed. Works a treat. I now have a fully portable Pismo!
• 1x 512MB PC133 SODIMM arrived from Hong Kong but had a cut running across the connector strip on one side and incidentally caused memory failure and corrupted my user account in Tiger, preventing login. Fixed the OS by dumping ~/Library/Preferences in single user mode and allowed it to restore defaults.
• Tested the RAM in my TiBook and confirmed that it failed to pass memory testing in TechTool (OS X) and Gauge Pro (OS 9).
• Ordered a set of 2x 512MB PC133 SO-DIMMs from a different seller to hopefully have better chances of operation (the original seller says he'll ship me a replacement, but that will be weeks away).
• 32GB mSATA SSD arrived and is ready to install - just waiting on the mSATA -> IDE adapter.

I've been enjoying using the Pismo as a portable for the past few days (mostly using it for tapping out my notes at night in front of the TV). Xcode runs really well in Tiger and I have actually found myself able to work on my app(s) using the Pismo. This has given me some insight on optimizing my code, which I wouldn't have thought of on a machine with greater resources.

I figure; Accommodate for the lowest Tiger capable hardware, test for things like VRAM size / Core Image support and then specifically optimize/ minimize or disable eye candy until it runs well enough on the old hardware. Moving the project across to anything newer (with more grunt) should then fly in comparison! Until all the filters and effect are loaded back in that is

 

[AphoticD]

I recall reading that the drive controller of pre G4 PBs can't handle ATA-60/100 drives. Can someone confirm that?
[doublepost=1505387117][/doublepost]I own a 1400c/166 which got the 80gig PBs G4 drive, but a SSD would be a big boost in terms of access time. Did someone try that?

What are your thoughts on the 1400c/166? What kind of usage do you put it through?

I’m trying to imagine how it might perform. I owned a few 7220/200’s many years ago which were 603e(v?) based and they performed okay, but being desktops, had the advantage of running bigger, faster IDE drives and upgraded graphics cards.

As I mentioned in your 1400 battery thread, I’ve spotted some available and I guess I am looking for some feedback. How’s the keyboard? It looks like it has a good, responsive depth.

Do you run System 7, 8 or 9?

 

[weckart]

Pismo Status update:

• 32GB mSATA SSD arrived and is ready to install - just waiting on the mSATA -> IDE adapter.

I've been enjoying using the Pismo as a portable for the past few days (mostly using it for tapping out my notes at night in front of the TV). Xcode runs really well in Tiger and I have actually found myself able to work on my app(s) using the Pismo. This has given me some insight on optimizing my code, which I wouldn't have thought of on a machine with greater resources.

It is a nice little workhorse and quiet with it. The only bugbear is the 802.11b WiFi slot. A pity that the AE card cannot be accommodated internally since the slower card is limited to TKIP encrypted passwords. Our latest IP supplied router supposedly supports both AES and TKIP but refuses to connect to my older PowerBooks.

The SSD will produce a nice little uplift in performance.






Two otherwise identical Pismos with differing disk benchmarks. I would point out that the Scorpio Blue in the slower Pismo is an ATA-100 drive.

 

[LightBulbFun]

I figure; Accommodate for the lowest Tiger capable hardware

you do realise that with my kernel, that "the lowest Tiger capable hardware" is now something like a 120Mhz 604 and 91MB of RAM

 

[AphoticD]

you do realise that with my kernel, that "the lowest Tiger capable hardware" is now something like a 120Mhz 604 and 91MB of RAM

You, sir are a miracle worker.

I recognize in retrospect my the use of the word 'capable', instead of 'supported'. So, that is true. I will need someone to test on a 604

Did you ever get the 603 support going? I was looking at the 1400 mentioned above, it only has a RAM capacity of 64MB though, is this the true maximum?

It is a nice little workhorse and quiet with it. The only bugbear is the 802.11b WiFi slot. A pity that the AE card cannot be accommodated internally since the slower card is limited to TKIP encrypted passwords. Our latest IP supplied router supposedly supports both AES and TKIP but refuses to connect to my older PowerBooks.

The SSD will produce a nice little uplift in performance.

Yes, even with the HDD it still runs pretty cool and quiet. I look forward to getting the SSD installed as it will boost performance as you've shown.

I've been using Internet Sharing from my PB12 to forward Ethernet to Airport using WEP 128bit whenever I want to go online with the Pismo or TiBook. I know the security risks and I can turn the signal off when I'm not using it.

As a bit of an an added bonus, this extra step of complexity for getting online has given me reason to switch off Airport while using the Pismo. The result is a longer battery life and more focused attention (and in the case of Cocoa; a need to RTFM instead of googling for answers).

Right now however I am procrastinating by browsing and responding on the MR forums using the Pismo with TenFourKit (Javascript off).

 

[LightBulbFun]

You, sir are a miracle worker.

I recognize in retrospect my the use of the word 'capable', instead of 'supported'. So, that is true. I will need someone to test on a 604

Did you ever get the 603 support going? I was looking at the 1400 mentioned above, it only has a RAM capacity of 64MB though, is this the true maximum?

OS X will only boot on a Macintosh (or Macintosh clone) thats is of a PCI architecture, so nubus machines are completely out of the picture

(Fun fact in tiger or leopard (cant quite remember which) the EULA says OS X can only be installed/run on an Apple branded computer, their-for running OS X Leo/tiger on a Macintosh clone would by definition of apples legal wording, be a PowerPC Hackintosh )

sadly I have not been able to test my kernel on a 603/e/ev machine yet, I have been unable to find a suitable machine my self still (anyone got a 128MB 3400c RAM card?), and sadly those that do own a suitable 603/e/ev machine, have been unable to test due to a few reasons

(I have a 4400 with 160MB of RAM but its the one PCI Macintosh that cant boot OS X, and I have 2! PowerBook 3400s, one of the best supported 603ev Macs for this kind of stuff but each one only has a 16MB RAM card, i feel like the ghost of Jobs is trolling me )

 

[weckart]

I've been using Internet Sharing from my PB12 to forward Ethernet to Airport using WEP 128bit whenever I want to go online with the Pismo or TiBook. I know the security risks and I can turn the signal off when I'm not using it.

As long as you are running Panther or later why not WPA2/TKIP rather than WEP?

 

[AphoticD]

Hah. The limitations of Apple's supported hardware regime created an opportunity for people like yourself to enhance and liberate their otherwise locked-down computers. The Jobs dictatorship will never be forgotten! Apple have continued this narrow window of support in his honour.

My understanding was that the 4400 (7220 in Australia) was the basis for many of the Mac clones and possibly the TAM(?)

If you were to get Tiger running on the 4400, Mac clones and/or the TAM, you would make Vintage Mac headlines!
[doublepost=1507347647][/doublepost]

As long as you are running Panther or later why not WPA2/TKIP rather than WEP?

WPA2/TKIP doesn't appear to be an option. Maybe I missed something?

 

[LightBulbFun]

Hah. The limitations of Apple's supported hardware regime created an opportunity for people like yourself to enhance and liberate their otherwise locked-down computers. The Jobs dictatorship will never be forgotten! Apple have continued this narrow window of support in his honour.

My understanding was that the 4400 (7220 in Australia) was the basis for many of the Mac clones and possibly the TAM(?)

If you were to get Tiger running on the 4400, Mac clones and/or the TAM, you would make Vintage Mac headlines!

the 4400 TAM and many mac clones (and the 3400-Kanga) are all PowerStar machines indeed based around the PSX/PSX+ chipset, but specify the 4400 does not boot OS X sadly, (the TAM is just a 5500/6500 mated to a 3400c LCD panel, in a fancy case) while these machines are all PowerStar macs, they are broken down into their own architectures, that clones may copy and use.

the 4400 and more or less all the lower end clones are whats called Tanzania based machines and all share the same Open Firmware model identifier of AAPL,e826 where as a TAM/5500/6500 is AAPL,e411 which means its a Gazelle based machine no clones where ever based off of it, and the 6400/5400 for that matter are AAPL,e407 which is also known as alchemy, again no clones IIRC) from what I have seen all the PowerStar based clones have been Tanzania based machines. from the extensive research I have done the alchemy Gazelle Hooper and Kanga are all the PowerStar based macs that are able to boot some version of OS X, with Hooper/Kanga having the best support.

I Have seen vague reports of OS X on Tanzania based macintosh clones, but never anything on a 4400 sadly, and in my own extensive testing I have not been able to get any version of OS X booting on my 4400

whats probably not helping matters is I have a 160Mhz 4400 (160Mhz models being more obscure since they where only sold in Europe) which are from what I read slightly different to the 200Mhz 4400s im not sure what the exact differences are tho sadly, what I do know is the 160Mhz has a gestalt ID of 514 where as the 200Mhz units are apparently 515, and that the 160Mhz 4400 is said to have a 96MB RAM ceiling however my 160Mhz 4400 is happily working with 160MB of RAM... both have OF model identifiers of AAPL,e826 of course since they are both Tanzania machines, but otherwise I dont know how they differ,

I do vaguely remember reading something about the different gestalt IDs in the dev documentation for the LPX40 Reference board apple produced (which was what the 4400 was based off of more or less) so ill have to check the dev docs for that out again and see if it pertains to anything, even if its something minuscule this stuff can throw big wobblies when it comes to this sort of stuff so who knows...

I hope this all makes sense! (why do these write ups always take over an hour to write up )

 

[AphoticD]

It always takes time to get the facts straight!

There's a chart of Gestalt IDs in this LPX-40 Dev Note. And a comparison chart of the reference design vs the 4400 in the PPC_4400.pdf

Maybe these will shine some light on things?

 

[bobesch]

The Edimax Mini-USB WLAN adapter (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/granites-ibook-g3-clamshells.1747559/page-8#post-22145536) should work with your Pismo (Tiger/Panther). I use it for my G3-Clamshell, G4-Cube and G4-GooseNeck. Unfortunately there's the USB1-bottleneck...

 

[LightBulbFun]

It always takes time to get the facts straight!

There's a chart of Gestalt IDs in this LPX-40 Dev Note. And a comparison chart of the reference design vs the 4400 in the PPC_4400.pdf

Maybe these will shine some light on things?

yeah 514 is the gestalt ID for the LPX40 board with soft Power and a Macintosh floppy drive, where as 515 which is that of the 200Mhz 4400 is not listed there, notice how the 160Mhz 4400 is not even mentioned in the Apple Dev PDF for the 4400. I do wonder what the differences between the 160 and 200Mhz units are, the only things noticed that are different between the 2 on a hardware level are, the CPU Speed the supposed 96MB RAM limit on the 160Mhz 4400 (which is inline with the LPX-40) and the fact the 160Mhz 4400 has a 3 PCI slot riser card where as the 200Mhz 4400 has a 2 PCI slot + 1 com-slot 2 slot riser card. (my 160Mhz 4400 works happily with 160MB of RAM so I dont know how true that 96MB limit is, id not be surprised if the LPX40 board also works with 160MB of RAM) PS while i was refreshing my info on this again, it looks like there where alchemy based clones

The Edimax Mini-USB WLAN adapter (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/granites-ibook-g3-clamshells.1747559/page-8#post-22145536) should work with your Pismo (Tiger/Panther). I use it for my G3-Clamshell, G4-Cube and G4-GooseNeck. Unfortunately there's the USB1-bottleneck...

he could also use a compatible 802.11G/N Wifi cardbus card, thats what I do with my Pismo

 

[weckart]

he could also use a compatible 802.11G/N Wifi cardbus card, thats what I do with my Pismo

802.11g maybe but n Cardbus cards are very thin on the ground, especially ones that will work with Tiger. I can only think of that one Buffalo card that usually costs upwards of $70 when it pitches up on the bay.

 

[LightBulbFun]

802.11g maybe but n Cardbus cards are very thin on the ground, especially ones that will work with Tiger. I can only think of that one Buffalo card that usually costs upwards of $70 when it pitches up on the bay.

I just use a cheap compatible G card I found for something like £6 on ebay, works all the way down to 10.2.x or so (granted not all versions of OS X support WPA n the like)

but heres a good guide for finding an N card for your mac just use google translate!

http://www.journaldulapin.com/2016/02/08/une-carte-wi-fi-802-11n-dans-un-powerbook/

this reminds me I need to see about compiling the IOPCCardFamily.kext from 10.2.6 source against tiger (or figure out how to compile the tiger kext and then start patching/hacking away at it ) to see if i can get the PC Card slots in a Kanga working in tiger, as the fix for anything 10.2.7 and higher is to use the 10.2.6 kext but the kext it self fails to load in tiger sadly, and the stock driver in anything 10.2.7 and up does not work with the PCCard slots in the 2400-kanga) if anyone here wants to have a crack at this by all means do try

(sadly all my Hoopers and my Kanga have the ethernet only expansion card which never has worked in OS X, you get the same errors from the ethernet kext/driver from OS X server 1.2v3 all the way to tiger amusingly, so my only way to get networking on the kanga in OS X is via the PCCard slots but those dont work in tiger so my kanga has no way to network in tiger, apart from maybe the serial port? and since the ethernet port does not work in OS X and nor do the PCCard slots work in tiger I have no way to get files on and off the kanga in tiger LOL)

 

[weckart]

That French article looks like a translation of the US article I read. This was the same hack I used to get my BCM4321 PCIe card running under Tiger in my G5.
As for your Kanga, external SCSI Zip or CDR seems to be the easiest, if cumbersome solution.

 

[AphoticD]

I just use a cheap compatible G card I found for something like £6 on ebay, works all the way down to 10.2.x or so (granted not all versions of OS X support WPA n the like)

but heres a good guide for finding an N card for your mac just use google translate!

http://www.journaldulapin.com/2016/02/08/une-carte-wi-fi-802-11n-dans-un-powerbook/

this reminds me I need to see about compiling the IOPCCardFamily.kext from 10.2.6 source against tiger (or figure out how to compile the tiger kext and then start patching/hacking away at it ) to see if i can get the PC Card slots in a Kanga working in tiger, as the fix for anything 10.2.7 and higher is to use the 10.2.6 kext but the kext it self fails to load in tiger sadly, and the stock driver in anything 10.2.7 and up does not work with the PCCard slots in the 2400-kanga) if anyone here wants to have a crack at this by all means do try

(sadly all my Hoopers and my Kanga have the ethernet only expansion card which never has worked in OS X, you get the same errors from the ethernet kext/driver from OS X server 1.2v3 all the way to tiger amusingly, so my only way to get networking on the kanga in OS X is via the PCCard slots but those dont work in tiger so my kanga has no way to network in tiger, apart from maybe the serial port? and since the ethernet port does not work in OS X and nor do the PCCard slots work in tiger I have no way to get files on and off the kanga in tiger LOL)

What version is the IOPCCardFamily.kext from 10.2.6? Apple's opensource page indicates it was v24.5, but I can't see how this relates when the kext installed in 10.2.8 is version 1.4.0.

I tried building v24.5 kext from source using both Xcode/Project Builder and the pbxbuild.sh script. I couldn't get a successful build of this version on any of my systems - 10.2.8, 10.3.9, 10.4.11.

Maybe there's an intermediate version here, which will build on Tiger and provide the support for the Kanga's PCCard bus. Either that or a mish-mash will be required.

https://opensource.apple.com/source/IOPCCardFamily/

Interesting tidbit; The OS X PC Card driver was based on the pcmcia-cs open source Linux kernel module (kernel 2.4 only) and there are remnants of X86 support in the OS X installed kext's Info.plist. (Back in Jaguar days)

 

[LightBulbFun]

That French article looks like a translation of the US article I read. This was the same hack I used to get my BCM4321 PCIe card running under Tiger in my G5.
As for your Kanga, external SCSI Zip or CDR seems to be the easiest, if cumbersome solution.

cool ill have to hunt down the english version of that article
sadly I dont have anything SCSI (my Macintosh SE is my first proper foray into SCSI, I have researched SCSI quite a bit but I have never owned any SCSI devices apart from the Ports on my beige macs ) and im not sure if the Kangas SCSI port works in tiger

What version is the IOPCCardFamily.kext from 10.2.6? Apple's opensource page indicates it was v24.5, but I can't see how this relates when the kext installed in 10.2.8 is version 1.4.0.

I tried building v24.5 kext from source using both Xcode/Project Builder and the pbxbuild.sh script. I couldn't get a successful build of this version on any of my systems - 10.2.8, 10.3.9, 10.4.11.

Maybe there's an intermediate version here, which will build on Tiger and provide the support for the Kanga's PCCard bus. Either that or a mish-mash will be required.

https://opensource.apple.com/source/IOPCCardFamily/

Interesting tidbit; The OS X PC Card driver was based on the pcmcia-cs open source Linux kernel module (kernel 2.4 only) and there are remnants of X86 support in the OS X installed kext's Info.plist. (Back in Jaguar days)

the Source code version for that kext in 10.2.7 is version 33, and that kext does not work with the Hooper/Kangas PCCard slots

the compiled 10.2.6 kext from OS X 10.2.6 according to its info.plist file is version 1.3.2 which is the last version to work with the hooper/kangas PCCards setup, sadly this kext only loads in OS X versions up to and including 10.3.9 but anything later and it fails to load with a link/load error IIRC (later PCCard slot kexts do see the PCCard slots but they error out)

its strange that it wont compile even on 10.2.8... wonder what errors if any its throwing out trying to compile?, notice how the source code goes from 24.5 which works with the hooper/Kanga right to 33 which does not work... (So sadly theres no in-between version we can try) would be good to figure out what changed between version 24.5 and 33 and try and figure out what broke the slots...

 

[AphoticD]

2x 512MB PC133 SO-DIMMs just arrived (very quickly) from another HK based seller. Brand new Hynix stock this time. Installed and tested A OK.

I had 320MB previously installed and what a difference that extra RAM can make in Tiger! Boot and app launch times have substantially improved. I've read that 512MB was the recommended minimum for Tiger, but considering you can officially install it with only 128MB, I took the advice with a grain of salt and just accepted that the Pismo was slow. I can see now that with maxed out RAM, when the SSD adapter comes in, it will make this curvy black portable a pleasure to use.

My 4 y/o calls the Pismo "Daddy's Bat-Computer".

 

[AphoticD]

If you have the old dead PRAM battery, just rebuild your own. It takes 2xVL2330 batteries. Suppliers such as CPC, Farnell, element14 or even Amazon should supply those, even with the soldered tabs on.

So after a long period, I finally got these cells together. It turned out to be 4x VL2330 batteries.

I have followed the existing circuit and hacked together a replacement PRAM battery, but wanted to confirm the voltage readings on a known working PRAM battery before sticking it in my Pismo.

Sticking the multi-meter prongs into the back of the connector/plug of my new DIY PRAM battery I get:

Red wire (+) to Black wire (-) ~6V
White wire (+) to Black wire (-) ~3V

Is this what it should read or did I go wrong somewhere? Shouldn't I have achieved ~12V (4x3V)?

 

[philgxxd]

I don' know about your circuit but the voltages only add if the batteries are connected in series.
So it kind of make a sense if you are measuring 6V assuming the black wire lays in between the 4 in series connected batteries.
What do you get if you measure between the red and white wire?
9V ?
Did you measure the cells individually?
Maybe one is shot (0V) ?