Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
From their blog post :
View attachment 2044522
Smell BS, as their cost increase after release.
Looks like they mix a cumulative cost curve with a non cumulative revenue curve.

It's not weird at all. Most of the cost is probably salary and other personel cost + renting office space. They're not firing the developers and programmers just because they released software.

And the rising cost can be described to a rising customers base, thus needed to handle more support, getting more sales and marketing people, thus maybe even getting a part-time HR-person or outsourcing such jobs with accounting.

I have seen Pixelmator growing from two people to twenty something.
 
A good app will have a steady flow of customers, as new people become aware of it and buy it.

There is a limited amount of people wanting to use software like Pixelmator.

The Pixelmator Team is located in Lithuania so wages are lower than most other western countries. Even if we assume as low a cost as $50,000 per employee it's still $1.25 million per year just in salary cost.

With an $8 sales price of which they get $5.6 would mean 223 000 new customers every year. Sooner or later, they'll will be running out of potential customers.

And I guess they need much more income than $1.25 million, probably more like $3 or $4 millions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KurtMann
Perhaps I'm showing my age, but there was a time before we had broadband internet when I used to buy boxed software that was never patched. I am talking about back in the day, i.e. when MS Office came on ~23 x 3.5in Floppy Disks...

Office 2000 Pro could cost something like $800 which would be about $1375 in today's dollar.
Windows 95 debuted at $210 (retail), about $410 in today's dollar.

Software was much more expensive before.
 
It will get updated the same as a monthly subscription version gets updated. It’s the same app.
It doesn’t just “get updated”. Someone has to update it. Someone has to do the work to maintain that app. To do that, someone has to get paid.

App maintenance for say, a Windows 98 or Windows XP app was voluntary. The app would continue to work regardless of what the developer did or didn’t do in most cases. You could go out and about a new computer and old software would just work. That’s not really true anymore. Buy a new device and it has iPad OS 16 on it, but it may not even let you install an app that was designed for iOS XX.
 
This app is ****.

Stop comparing it to Photoshop.

That’s like comparing TextEdit to Microsoft Word.

If you have compared this or Affinity Photo to Photoshop…

…then you’re not a true power user and haven’t seen the full power and capability of Photoshop.
 
It doesn’t just “get updated”. Someone has to update it. Someone has to do the work to maintain that app. To do that, someone has to get paid.

App maintenance for say, a Windows 98 or Windows XP app was voluntary. The app would continue to work regardless of what the developer did or didn’t do in most cases. You could go out and about a new computer and old software would just work. That’s not really true anymore. Buy a new device and it has iPad OS 16 on it, but it may not even let you install an app that was designed for iOS XX.
I was replying to someone who said they would be left behind. I was saying that with the subscription service on this app, you will still get updates for the paid version.

So if they update the app in the future to suit, say iPadOS 18, the people who are monthly, yearly subscribers will get the same update. So will people who have already paid a lifetime payment, because that is included in their subscription model.

The only difference would be if they take away the lifetime payment, like Notability did. However Notability have assured its lifetime customers that they can continue to get all updates, but they maintain the right to not pass on extra features. So far that is not the case with Pixelmator for Photos.
 
Last edited:
Yes, free labor!
What free labour ?
I have paid $$ for the software that I have and I have donated to free software, paid for shareware etc.

I also don't pay rent on books I own, Music CDs I own, DVDs I own, nor have I paid Apple any extra for my 27" 2010 iMac that I still use for various things.

None of my software stops working because they drop support for my old hardware/OS.
FileMaker Pro 4 still works fine for what I use it for, as does the old version of Final Cut, etc etc etc.
And it runs DipTrace well, and I still have an older version of Parallels with Win7 that drives my EPROM programmer just fine.

At work we have been caught, we bought a 10 seat perpetual licence years ago for $12,000
NOW we are looking at $20,000 a YEAR.

MY "cash flow" is just as, if not more important than theirs.
And as I say, I have dumped various bits of software that went into the rental scheme and bought a competing product or open source.
 
This app is ****.

Stop comparing it to Photoshop.

That’s like comparing TextEdit to Microsoft Word.

If you have compared this or Affinity Photo to Photoshop…

…then you’re not a true power user and haven’t seen the full power and capability of Photoshop.
I've read back through the thread and literally nobody has compared these apps to Photoshop. It's more philosophical about pricing and sales strategies. Are you just angry about your Adobe subscription? Who cares if you're a "true power user"? Weird flex.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rettro and KurtMann
Next year: after the huge success of the Pixelmator Photo subscription, we’re introducing it to our Pro software as well. You’re going to love it!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1Peace
Are you just angry about your Adobe subscription? Who cares if you're a "true power user"? Weird flex.

You ignored what people are saying to make a pointless post.

I made 2 grand on Sunday. Only on Sunday. Because of Adobe’s software.

Not possible with any of their competitor Apps.

So let power users use power apps and don’t recommend toy apps to people who want earn better money.
 
Last edited:
You can do this for any subscription in the App store. That’s actually why Netflix DOESN’T want their subscription paid through the app store :) It’s too easy to “turn it on for a month” and immediately unsubscribe.
For the streaming services in general like if you watch through a desktop web browser, if you just wanted 1 month's worth, I thought you could just sub, immediately cancel, and then ride out the month knowing that it won't auto-renew. How is this any different than what the iOS App Store does?

On a related note, I thought Netflix doesn't want to go through the app store b/c then they'd have to give Apple their 30% cut?

It's things of this nature that gave rise to digital piracy... and will continue to feed it.
I really do wonder what the actual piracy rates are these days. While it's not trivial to jailbreak an iOS device, it's not difficult either. I know people pirated photoshop like crazy since it was, crazy expensive. But dunno if these sorts of apps would be available. I figured people these days are on the lazier side (including yours truly :) ), so they'll just find free alternatives, or call the whole thing off and move on.
 
For the streaming services in general like if you watch through a desktop web browser, if you just wanted 1 month's worth, I thought you could just sub, immediately cancel, and then ride out the month knowing that it won't auto-renew. How is this any different than what the iOS App Store does?
The main difference is for someone that signs up and forgets about it. Going through Apple, all current subscriptions are in one place, with a simple swipe to cancel. It’s info at-a-glance that makes management easy.
On a related note, I thought Netflix doesn't want to go through the app store b/c then they'd have to give Apple their 30% cut?
That, too, but they are currently willing to give Apple their 30% cut when a user signs up for the lowest package, (the one that allows access to the games), so they’re not wholly against it. The bigger issue for them is that people were FAR more likely to cancel and resubscribe later (they call it churn) when “Netflix” was listed right there in subscriptions. Removing it from there meant people just stayed subscribed, which is better/more consistent for their bottom line.
 
Long gone are the days where you could buy software and run it for a decade unless you want to do that on a device that is airgapped from the internet and never updated.
Heh.. reminds me of an issue my father had months back... His copy of Microsoft Office 2002 stopped working, and he got pushed to sub to Office 365. Frankly, I'm surprised it took 20 years for it to finally stop working, and that it worked into Windows 10 no less! As far as tech goes, he's generally against paying anything (although TBF, he's long retired and never spent much time on computers even when he was working), so no one-time purchase, let alone subscriptions. He just uses the basic with Office productivity (no macros, nor pivot tables), so we installed Libre Office and called it a day.

Just recently, productivity applications became more profitable than games due to subscriptions. While there’s a lot of people that don’t like them, there appears to be lot more people that are comfortable with supporting companies with a subscription.
Yeah, productivity and business have always been a whole different beast. Without some of these pieces of software, you don't make money. The value proposition there is, spending $30 a year to tens of thousands of $'s per year is justified when it makes you up to millions of $'s per year, or otherwise 5x to 25x what you spent. Those devs have gotten complaints that their apps are just too expensive. They just counter that their apps have saved their users hundreds to thousands of hours of worker time. If a typical employee is charging even $35 an hour, the savings are still significant.

Entertainment and recreation OTOH... this is much more fungible. There are no shortages of these. And it's worse since they need to compete with things outside the app store... video games on Android, console, PC, Steam for one. Then you have plenty of others like streaming, sports, physical activity, dining out... the list goes on and on really.

.... Netflix, Disney plus, I had to get rid of all that too as its just too damn expensive. ....
If you haven't already, consider rotating streaming services. For me, this easily keeps it to under $20 a month (average has been $13 a month thus far), and I get them ad-free. OTOH, I'm not interested in live TV nor sports, so this simplifies that a whole lot.

And look for discounts, sales, and promos whenever you can. For examples, I get a year's of Paramount Plus for free courtesy of T-Mobile (it's the version w-ads though). I had Hulu for $1 to $2 a month via their Thanksgiving sale (I cancelled this b/c the ads were too much for me), and HBO Max is having a 40% off sale until Oct. 30th. Disney+ is going up in price on Dec. 8th, so I may lock in the annual, current rate before then. Curiosity Stream is only $20 per year for HD, so it's been cheap enough to just always have.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Max Webb
This is only true if the developer was motivated to continue supporting the product without any additional payment. My purchase queue is full of apps that have been abandoned and no longer work. (Of course, they still work on my iPod touch gen2. :rolleyes:)
Heh, that tops me. I started off on an IpT3, but still have my iPod Touch 5. It's still on ios7, so I long turned off the bt and wifi. It's pretty much a glorified calculator, timer, flashlight, and reference guide, but b/c it's so slim and small, I carry it with me anyways. When I travel, I still need a lightning cable for my iPad, so that's covered as well.

That’s a 7x price increase with a single update. I’ve seen gradual price increases but never something like this. I get that if $7.99 stopped being enough to support the development, yes, it’s necessary to raise the price. But this, this is a special kind of nasty.

It’s also giving other iOS devs some ideas, already saw the Apollo dev left a comment on Reddit saying he approves of this 7x price increase…
That's actually been known in the developer circles for over a decade, if not more. A podcast I listened to around 2016 mentioned the only way to really go is to charge premium pricing, or utilize subscriptions. Premium pricing to them was at least 5x what they were charging then. An article about somebody who worked at a company who made freemium/"free to play" games mentioned something similar that if people were willing to pay $20 to $50 per game, then the mobile gaming landscape could've been much more different. But we're stuck with what we got now.
 
Yeah, productivity and business have always been a whole different beast. Without some of these pieces of software, you don't make money. The value proposition there is, spending $30 a year to tens of thousands of $'s per year is justified when it makes you up to millions of $'s per year, or otherwise 5x to 25x what you spent. Those devs have gotten complaints that their apps are just too expensive. They just counter that their apps have saved their users hundreds to thousands of hours of worker time. If a typical employee is charging even $35 an hour, the savings are still significant.

Entertainment and recreation OTOH... this is much more fungible. There are no shortages of these. And it's worse since they need to compete with things outside the app store... video games on Android, console, PC, Steam for one. Then you have plenty of others like streaming, sports, physical activity, dining out... the list goes on and on really.
My point is that, for very many people, the “value proposition” is “helping out the developer”. IAP’s for games pulls in a LOT of money for developers, across all of them it’s quite a large amount of money. The fact now is that subscriptions, for non-game apps, are making developers (as a whole) MORE than game IAP’s. And, a lot of these folks aren’t professionals, they’re only using the apps for their personal use. They’ve just got disposable income to the point where giving 3, 5, or more dollars a month to a developer in the way of a subscription doesn’t break them and provides much needed funds for the developers.

These are the people that developers are looking to connect with and they’re finding success.
 
That’s ironically what happened with monument valley. The developer made the bulk of his revenue on iOS, while the android version was pirated to heck and back.

That's about right...
"Of that revenue, 81.7 per cent was made from iOS sales of the game on iPhone and iPad."

Piracy rates was 95% on Android, but piracy on iOS was 60%. It does give credence to statements saying "there really isn't a culture of paying for things on the mobile stores". And also shows that "iOS users actually pay for things" isn't quite right, but I digress.

Office 2000 Pro could cost something like $800 which would be about $1375 in today's dollar.
Windows 95 debuted at $210 (retail), about $410 in today's dollar.

Software was much more expensive before.
People yearn for the olden days of the 80s and 90s when video games didn't have ads nor very consumer hostile MTX. However, same deal... competition in those days wasn't as fierce as they are today. Also, games of those days would set you back $50 to $60. With inflation, that'd be $91 to $171 today. If people were willing to pay that much for software on the app store, subs, MTX, and ads would've taken a completely different trajectory.
 
Piracy rates was 95% on Android, but piracy on iOS was 60%. It does give credence to statements saying "there really isn't a culture of paying for things on the mobile stores". And also shows that "iOS users actually pay for things" isn't quite right, but I digress.
It doesn't say piracy was 60% on iOS. It said "either pirate it or nab the puzzler for free". Monument Valley was offered for free at multiple times.

For example:
 
but piracy on iOS was 60%. It does give credence to statements saying "there really isn't a culture of paying for things on the mobile stores". And also shows that "iOS users actually pay for things" isn't quite right, but I digress.
Piracy wasn’t on iOS 60%. The article states:
“60 per cent managed to either pirate it or nab the puzzler for free.“ (it was free for a week in December 2015 that I know of)
for Android:
“The piracy or unpaid rate on Android was a huge 95 per cent”

The point of the article being that, if a developer wants to make money on mobile on a single purchase app (no ads, no subscription), even though there are FAR, FAR more Android devices than iPhones, you’re going to have a better return on your investment releasing for iOS. ALL iOS users may not pay for all things, but, compared to Android with it’s ease of sideloading, more iOS users than Android users pay for things.
 
You ignored what people are saying to make a pointless post.

I made 2 grand on Sunday. Only on Sunday. Because of Adobe’s software.

Not possible with any of their competitor Apps.

So let power users use power apps and don’t recommend toy apps to people who want earn better money.
If you are that good of course you could make money using Affinity. What are you talking about?
 
That’s a 7x price increase with a single update. I’ve seen gradual price increases but never something like this. I get that if $7.99 stopped being enough to support the development, yes, it’s necessary to raise the price. But this, this is a special kind of nasty.

It’s also giving other iOS devs some ideas, already saw the Apollo dev left a comment on Reddit saying he approves of this 7x price increase…


It’s not unlike the fantastical app (subscribe to get apps for all devices, from Apple Watch to Mac). And maybe that’s the future of Apple software. Small but dedicated groups of users subscribing to software which they have legitimate uses for, and the rest back on iOS stock apps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Unregistered 4U
It’s not unlike the fantastical app (subscribe to get apps for all devices, from Apple Watch to Mac). And maybe that’s the future of Apple software. Small but dedicated groups of users subscribing to software which they have legitimate uses for, and the rest back on iOS stock apps.
It does sound like it’s moving in that direction.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KurtMann
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.