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It's nearly 2014 and on the phone side, Android has exceeded apple by a long mile. There are so many useful features available but where android fails compared to apple is of course, DESIGN! Android apps aren't as consistent UI wise, and of course lack the "polish" of an app on iOS. I have a galaxy note 3 it is the best smartphone I've used since the original iPhone 3GS. It has so many features that I probably won't use daily but the fact it lets me do OTG hard drives, usb memory sticks, keyboards, mice, you name it it can support it out of box without root. It has wifi-direct, it has wireless AC, it has Qi compatible charging, removable battery, microSD for up to 256GB support (not-officially), notification lights with different colors, 720p slow-motion with 1/2,1/4,1/8 settings, 4K video recording, way way way better microphone with zoom support, 360 pano pics, image stabilization front and rear cameras, dual camera recording, tons of filters and add-ons, and those are just the short list for the CAMERA features!

Absolutely agreed! The Note 3 is absolutely great! For example the 4K video recording implementation is faboulous!

However, now that Samsung is announced the next S5/Note4 will have OIS and the S5 may be released VERY soon, I'm waiting for it instead of getting the Note 3.
 
Indeed he is. He has posted a long list of "arguments" (see my above post). Most of them shows he certainly doesn't have the slightest clue about what he's speaking about (e.g., the technical basics of photography).

Typical Apple fanboy.

You're right, I don't.

The mistake YOU make is assuming that a vast majority of Apple's consumer base knows any more than I do.

They don't.

And IF, like you, they care about the technical aspects of photography, they sure as hell aren't using a smartphone to capture high quality photos.

I'm a casual photog - for me, a smartphone camera works plenty well because I'm not doing anything professional with them. And with that said, the iPhone 5s has been the best camera of any smartphone I've used (see the list below).

Granted I haven't used a high-end Lumia, and I'm sure they're wonderful cameras. But no phone has the best EVERYTHING. You buy a Lumia if smartphone photography is your primary concern, but you do so knowing the app ecosystem isn't as strong as Apple's or Android's.

Value propositions - everyone is free to make their own choices. Because I like Apple products (they suit my needs well) and because I don't stomp around moaning and groaning about nonsense, I'm an Apple fanboy.

Ok.
 
And IF, like you, they care about the technical aspects of photography, they sure as hell aren't using a smartphone to capture high quality photos.

If one does know beforehand he's out for shooting, surely he'll have a decent camera. However, in all other cases, the old truth is valid:

"The best camera is the one that you have with you"

(which is, in most cases, a smartphone)
 
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Two mistakes you make here:

(1) I'm not saying I know what everyone wants - but sales numbers would seem to indicate there are plenty of people who find iOS devices perfectly capable for their needs. (I also worked at BBY for a short time, and as much as I don't know - many consumers made me look like a genius....)

which leads to point #2

(2) The average forum-goer (who post all those threads about f.lux) knows INFINITELY more about pretty much EVERYTHING tech related that MOST consumers who buy this stuff.

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If one does know beforehand he's out for shooting, surely he'll have a decent camera. However, in all other cases, the old truth is valid:

"The best camera is the one that you have with you"

(which is, in most cases, a smartphone)

True - you mistake my comments as a lack of desire in camera improvement. I merely don't BLAME Apple for some perceived holding back of features....

That being said - for a VAST majority of consumers, the iPhone 5s camera is near the top in quality. You may make requests for very specific things to be improved or added.....but when I look at photos taken on my 5s versus those on my N5, GS4, iP4s, iP5, HTC One, N4 - the 5s is better.

Like I said - never tried the Lumia series.

The camera will continue to improve. The iPhone has the best camera on the market (in my estimation). That is why I like it.

You may feel differently, which of course means you are free to make your own purchasing decision.

The argument here isn't whether or not the iPhone camera can improve (I agree it can) - its whether or not Apple is intentionally withholding features based on wanting to drive more consumers to purchase new devices more frequently.

I say, based on the evidence that the iPhone (in visual tests - not some spec sheet) has one of the best smartphone cameras on the market and the fact that Apple is a money-maker FIRST, it really doesn't matter whether or not they are intentionally holding features back.
 
Lol, you do understand we are talking about the ability to refuse updates here right?

I've seen this elsewhere, but as I've never NOT wanted to update I'm a little confused.....

Can't you just ignore the little red (1) on the settings icon and NOT update? My colleague's iPhone 4S is still on iOS 6.....he just doesn't care to update. Nothing has been forced on him.
 
I've seen this elsewhere, but as I've never NOT wanted to update I'm a little confused.....

Can't you just ignore the little red (1) on the settings icon and NOT update? My colleague's iPhone 4S is still on iOS 6.....he just doesn't care to update. Nothing has been forced on him.

Yes, but you can never make a mistake and if you want to try the latest and greatest you can't go back. The update is also wasting a considerable amount of space unless jailbroken. Your friend can also never do a fresh install of ios 6 on the 4s regardless of the fact that he is still on ios6
 
Yes, but you can never make a mistake and if you want to try the latest and greatest you can't go back. Your friend can also never do a fresh install of ios 6 on the 4s regardless of the fact that he is still on ios6

Even if jailbroken with the .ipsw saved?

Forgive the ignorance, I jailbroke for a time, but am not really that into it. I thought, even though Apple isn't signing the older software, as long as you had the .ipsw saved you could manually install an older software through iTunes.

Also, just out of curiosity, why wouldn't you want to upgrade to a newer iPhone? And why don't you want to use iOS 7?
 
Even if jailbroken with the .ipsw saved?

Forgive the ignorance, I jailbroke for a time, but am not really that into it. I thought, even though Apple isn't signing the older software, as long as you had the .ipsw saved you could manually install an older software through iTunes.

Only devices with the a4 or lower can be restored if you have shsh blobs saved for that device and firmware version captured with tinyumbrella, ifaith, or the like. A boot rom exploit is required. The iPhone 4 is the latest device that can freely switch between ios versions if the user has those blobs saved from when Apple was still signing.

A royal PITA for someone who likes to tinker with apple devices, which is actually quite fun aside from the whole you can never mess up and need a restore.

I'm primarily motivated personally by wanting to keep a jailbreak, but every mainstream computer OS aside from ios can downgrade. I may update my 4 to ios 7 eventually, but I'm glad I can always take that device back wherever.
 
Well I did follow your advice and found a very nice explanation online in a macrumors forum post #21.

And about the LED you can turn on Accessibility Settings and enable the LED flash for Alerts.

Not even close to a proper LED notification light. Ever use an Android phone with one?

C'mon Apple! It's simple to implement! I'll even donate a simple device like a Motorola Defy to show you proper LED notification implementation :)
 
Not even close to a proper LED notification light. Ever use an Android phone with one?

C'mon Apple! It's simple to implement! I'll even donate a simple device like a Motorola Defy to show you proper LED notification implementation :)

I hate the notification light.....

Drives me nuts blinking at me. I know I have a notification from the numerous other ways my phone alerts me. And with an iPhone, my display comes on showing me exactly what notification and, if I so chose, a snippet of that notification.

I will never understand the clamor for this feature.
 
I hate the notification light.....

Drives me nuts blinking at me. I know I have a notification from the numerous other ways my phone alerts me. And with an iPhone, my display comes on showing me exactly what notification and, if I so chose, a snippet of that notification.

I will never understand the clamor for this feature.

Can be turned off :p

As usual though, options are bad :p
 
No.

But if Apple was doing this (and they are not) it would be incredibly stupid. Why do you think purposely giving somebody a bad experience with an Apple product would result in that person buying another Apple product? (A product they are still selling, by the way).

If anything, it would make people move to android. And after they switch they might notice that 2 year-old android phone's battery is not as good as it used to be. And that apps don't seem as fast as they once did. And the newer phones have newer features.

It's the way technology works. And iOS 7 didn't make your 2 year old battery worse. The last 2 years did that.


This was one of the best points I've heard so far. The course of events though, seem so indicative of neglect to say the least and too be fair my battery definitely started draining much faster with iOS7.
 
Google just released Kitkat, which supports older devices than jelly bean. Also those with older devices might have been better off not being able to update to iOS 7. My iPhone worked just fine before it, even though I think iOS 7 looks better.

Try to install KitKat on a three years old Android phone .... Oh yes, you can't !
You can install and USE iOS 7 on a 3,5 years old iPhone 4, OFFICIALLY.

Every time I see a thread about "planned obsolescence" on Apple products, the only word I think is BS !


Ooohhh, i can see members of the fandroid armada storming the thread to list all the fantastic features of android .... An os that need a 2 Ghz quadcore chipset just to run smooth ... :rolleyes:

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The solution is simple!

Buy an Android device!

Those have a long history of getting support and updates!

Yes .... In some case for a full year :D

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Indeed he is. He has posted a long list of "arguments" (see my above post). Most of them shows he certainly doesn't have the slightest clue about what he's speaking about (e.g., the technical basics of photography).

Typical Apple fanboy.

And you are speaking about "fanboys" !?!
You, the one who keep speaking of Note 3 as if that ridiculously huge thing was a smartphone comparable to a sleek iPhone ?
 
No.

But if Apple was doing this (and they are not) it would be incredibly stupid. Why do you think purposely giving somebody a bad experience with an Apple product would result in that person buying another Apple product? (A product they are still selling, by the way).

If anything, it would make people move to android. And after they switch they might notice that 2 year-old android phone's battery is not as good as it used to be. And that apps don't seem as fast as they once did. And the newer phones have newer features.

It's the way technology works. And iOS 7 didn't make your 2 year old battery worse. The last 2 years did that.

It's not that your Apple eXPerience got "worse", it's that "over time it's slowed down", but the 5s is "so much faster". The issue is, if you compare a 4s running iOS 6 to a 5s running iOS 7, you'll see how much less of an issue it is.

And as to the battery life, it is an issue. My girlfriend had her 4s replaced about a month before iOS 7 came out, her battery is at 99% capacity, and there was a noticeable difference in iOS 6 to iOS 7. A user with a bad battery may just chalk it up to the battery getting "worse", but if you have a 4s with a perfectly functional battery, it's noticeable.
 
And you are speaking about "fanboys" !?!
You, the one who keep speaking of Note 3 as if that ridiculously huge thing was a smartphone comparable to a sleek iPhone ?

As I've pointed out above, I'm not an Android / Note 3 fanboy as I don't even have the latter. A true fanboy would have it ;)

Yes, it's BIG. However, it has a lot of pretty much unique features; for example, 4K video recording or Wacom support.

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Ooohhh, i can see members of the fandroid armada storming the thread to list all the fantastic features of android .... An os that need a 2 Ghz quadcore chipset just to run smooth ...

If you meant me - the vast majority of that list also applies to Nokia's high-end cameraphones running Windows Phone (or even Symbian). That's three different operating systems I'm a "fanboy" of. That is, we can't be Android fanboys - let's say we're fanboys of true progression and innovation - something Apple has been lacking lately? :)

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You may make requests for very specific things to be improved or added.....but when I look at photos taken on my 5s versus those on my N5, GS4, iP4s, iP5, HTC One, N4 - the 5s is better.

Noone questions this (except for the GS4's being pretty much on par with the 5s). None of those phones are cameraphones - unlike, say, the 808 or the 1020.

Actually, I pretty like the camera of my 5s too. I just am aware of its huge limitations and will switch to a Note 4 / GS5 ASAP if they have at least as good a camera as their predecessors - but, now, with OIS.
 
Who's forcing who to update? If you HATE the new software so much, don't install it.

At the same time, my top point still stands - so we're upset that Apple is adding more robust features to their software, which in turn won't run on 3 year old hardware as smoothly as it would on brand new hardware?

Yet we want new features (many have argued for added features here in this thread) and often times berate Apple for not adding enough.

Seems for Apple, its a lose-lose. Of course, they could simply write the perfect software code that magically works 100% smoothly on every device ever made....dang, why haven't they done this already! :rolleyes:

We're coming up on year 7 of the iPhone's existence. Obviously we are in the midst of a highly accelerated technological boom, but really? How long did it take Microsoft to "perfect" (no software is perfect, certainly not Microsoft's) Windows so it ran well on a wide variety of devices? Heck, Android is just now REALLY addressing the OS fragmentation by making concerted efforts to slim down Android (which carries a boat load of redundant stock apps).

My point? People need to relax. If a phone isn't working for you, you make the choice to either work through it, or buy a new one. Heck, if you're on the 4S, you could get a 5C for $100 on contract. If you don't care to upgrade all that often, the 5C will work plenty well with iOS 7 for sometime.

But if you prefer to buy a phone that will last 10 years AND work perfectly with all future software updates, sorry but you're out of luck. There isn't a smartphone on the planet like that. I'm sure we'll get there - but at this point, the smartphone - despite its HUGELY important role in our culture - just isn't there yet.

As for the corporate America bit - ya, I'm all about it. Heck, if it weren't for our capitalist system (and my Dad's work ethic) I wouldn't have enjoyed the life I have up to this point.....I also wouldn't have the opportunities I have at this point to do the same thing he did and make a success of myself. But I'm not going to get into all of this here.....would only derail the thread into an eco-political war.


You totally have a point. From a fiscal point of view it doesn't help Apple to focus resources on old hardware. It just doesn't seem so much to ask for a company to at least maintain the integrity of a purchased device, like a time capsule if you will of what that device was capable of during that short time of its heyday. People clamor for the novelty of new features and functionality but like I said the ability to stay put to where it was optimized the best would go a long way.

Also Apple definitely shoves iOS7 down ur throat, while ur sleeping in fact. lol (I'm referrring of course to it automatically downloading when charging and connected to wifi)
 
As I've pointed out above, I'm not an Android / Note 3 fanboy as I don't even have the latter. A true fanboy would have it ;)

Yes, it's BIG. However, it has a lot of pretty much unique features; for example, 4K video recording or Wacom support.

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If you meant me - the vast majority of that list also applies to Nokia's high-end cameraphones running Windows Phone (or even Symbian). That's three different operating systems I'm a "fanboy" of. That is, we can't be Android fanboys - let's say we're fanboys of true progression and innovation - something Apple has been lacking lately? :)

----------


Innovation ?
All most of android phones can do is "more of the same" : Samesung Universe 56 had a 17" display ? Samesung universe 57 will have a 18" display. No matter if it needs a backpack to be carry on and hands like King Kong to be used .... it must have a larger display !
Samesung World 103 had a eightcore 3 Ghz ? Samesung World 104 will have a 12-core 3Ghz. Just to try to be different from a crowd of all identical boring phones ...

Last time I checked the only potentially great step ahead was made by Apple with a 64-bit architecture and a fingerprint sensor that really works.
Speaking about innovation ....
 
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Using a Nexus 5 - where can I disable it?

EDIT: Nvm, found it.

Never said options were bad.....just don't understand the fervor with which people campaign for this feature.
You might never have actually said "options are bad" but you certainly have made it clear that you are in lockstep with Apple's defined use cases for their products...many of which don't include an option.

Apple's use case for the iPhone is that the owner is ALWAYS with the device... including taking a shower, using the toilet, sleeping, EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME. They expect their phone to alert you and everyone around that you own one of their products.

For the rest of us, we may leave our phone on the desk or nightstand... while we take a shower. (I understand that hipsters bath quite infrequently so that is not such an issue for them) The only way to know if we received a call or text is to pick the phone up and turn it on. An indicator light is a very convenient way to know. (Even some of the cheapo Android phones I've owned had a notification light to differentiate between a phone call and text.)

Maybe our phone is on silent because we're in a meeting and don't want to be distracted... again, an indicator light is a convenient way to look down (either on the desk, or at the phone in a holster) after the meeting.

It is simple common sense to provide an option for a visual cue (as well as an audible and tactile option)... why this is one of the great mysteries of the universe to you is puzzling.
 
You might never have actually said "options are bad" but you certainly have made it clear that you are in lockstep with Apple's defined use cases for their products...many of which don't include an option.

Apple's use case for the iPhone is that the owner is ALWAYS with the device... including taking a shower, using the toilet, sleeping, EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME. They expect their phone to alert you and everyone around that you own one of their products.

For the rest of us, we may leave our phone on the desk or nightstand... while we take a shower. (I understand that hipsters bath quite infrequently so that is not such an issue for them) The only way to know if we received a call or text is to pick the phone up and turn it on. An indicator light is a very convenient way to know. (Even some of the cheapo Android phones I've owned had a notification light to differentiate between a phone call and text.)

Maybe our phone is on silent because we're in a meeting and don't want to be distracted... again, an indicator light is a convenient way to look down (either on the desk, or at the phone in a holster) after the meeting.

It is simple common sense to provide an option for a visual cue (as well as an audible and tactile option)... why this is one of the great mysteries of the universe to you is puzzling.

Lol - there is so much generalization fail going on here I'm even sure where to begin.....

How about short simple responses for you - you know, so you don't confuse what I say into some ridiculous argument:

(1) I'm not a hipster. I bathe quite frequently.

(2) I too leave my iPhone laying on my nightstand while I shower - right next to my Nexus 5.

(3) At some point before my commute, I'm going to pick up my phone and check the weather/traffic. Oh look! I have emails. I'll take care of those when I get to work.

(4) I have a brain, so I remember I had emails. I look at my phone again, oh wow! More notifications! I take care of them and set the phone on the desk next to me.

(5) At various points during the day I get notifications - my phone vibrates and dings (unless I'm in a meeting). It also lights up the display for a brief time - showing me what notification I received - "ahh, facebook - I can check that out later".

(6) Again, same brain - I remember my facebook notification and check it out when I get home.

At no point in time does a blinky light help me. That's fine if you want to ASSUME (remember what that does) that I am AGAINST options. Just that in this particular instance, having used phones WITH the notification light, there is literally no added benefit that I can see.

The big assumptions made in most arguments I've seen FOR the notification light are that (1) I absolutely HAVE to know this second if I have notifications (and vaguely where they come from) but I can't be bothered to actually use my phone and (2) that I will, for some reason, NOT pick up my phone UNLESS there is a notification present. I don't know about you, but I frequently use my phone during the day and am able to take care of any and all notifications that are there.

Like I said - its fine if you want to justify why its some hugely important feature and Apple is failing as a company for not implementing (which I've seen people claim.....) but I will NEVER understand the draw. Not against implementing the option - I actually came up with the idea to make the rounded square on the home button glow before they got rid of it with TouchID. I just think its hilarious that in a thread where people are complaining about overly complicated software slowing down their old phones, we're also asking for Apple to add more options.....which would thereby complicate things further and slow the older devices down more.....

Sometimes, if something works. There isn't a need to add another 5 ways to do that thing. One of my pet peeves with Android (which thankfully is being addressed) is the number of redundant STOCK apps....but like I said - Google came to its sense and we now have the much better Hangouts app for SMS and Google Hangouts.
 
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I hate the notification light.....

Drives me nuts blinking at me. I know I have a notification from the numerous other ways my phone alerts me. And with an iPhone, my display comes on showing me exactly what notification and, if I so chose, a snippet of that notification.

I will never understand the clamor for this feature.
It's for the times when you are not around your phone when the notification comes in. Rather simple and straightforward.

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Just keep in mind that Windows 7 was "snappier" than Windows Vista, and Windows 8 actually runs on hardware that Windows 7 cannot run on. Apple could write software that runs circles on the 4s, they choose not to.

It's a deliberate choice on Apple's part to make older devices less useful.
Or simply the result of Apple focusing on the newer hardware and capabilities and coding to pull the most optimal performance out of that. I wonder which one sounds more plausible. ;)

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Who's forcing who to update? If you HATE the new software so much, don't install it.

At the same time, my top point still stands - so we're upset that Apple is adding more robust features to their software, which in turn won't run on 3 year old hardware as smoothly as it would on brand new hardware?

Yet we want new features (many have argued for added features here in this thread) and often times berate Apple for not adding enough.

Seems for Apple, its a lose-lose. Of course, they could simply write the perfect software code that magically works 100% smoothly on every device ever made....dang, why haven't they done this already! :rolleyes:

We're coming up on year 7 of the iPhone's existence. Obviously we are in the midst of a highly accelerated technological boom, but really? How long did it take Microsoft to "perfect" (no software is perfect, certainly not Microsoft's) Windows so it ran well on a wide variety of devices? Heck, Android is just now REALLY addressing the OS fragmentation by making concerted efforts to slim down Android (which carries a boat load of redundant stock apps).

My point? People need to relax. If a phone isn't working for you, you make the choice to either work through it, or buy a new one. Heck, if you're on the 4S, you could get a 5C for $100 on contract. If you don't care to upgrade all that often, the 5C will work plenty well with iOS 7 for sometime.

But if you prefer to buy a phone that will last 10 years AND work perfectly with all future software updates, sorry but you're out of luck. There isn't a smartphone on the planet like that. I'm sure we'll get there - but at this point, the smartphone - despite its HUGELY important role in our culture - just isn't there yet.

As for the corporate America bit - ya, I'm all about it. Heck, if it weren't for our capitalist system (and my Dad's work ethic) I wouldn't have enjoyed the life I have up to this point.....I also wouldn't have the opportunities I have at this point to do the same thing he did and make a success of myself. But I'm not going to get into all of this here.....would only derail the thread into an eco-political war.
How would you know you actually truly hate it without installing it? And once you do, for the vast majority there's no way to go back to anything else. Provide a way to go back, and most of this becomes moot then...but that's not happening unfortunately.
 
[/COLOR]How would you know you actually truly hate it without installing it? And once you do, for the vast majority there's no way to go back to anything else. Provide a way to go back, and most of this becomes moot then...but that's not happening unfortunately.

Oh I don't know - seems plenty of people are completely capable and willing to destroy and berate something without trying it around here.

But really, this is neither here nor there. I'm not arguing my points, I'm using them to argue the idea that Apple is in the wrong for this "planned obsolescence". I would think it a great addition if Apple opened up the ability to move backward in OS versions. But I also understand why they don't. There's a reason Apple offers some of the best customer service in the industry.....keeping things up to date and standard makes servicing said device MUCH easier.
 
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