Planned Obsolescence?

[teknikal90]

i dont believe that 'planned obsolescence' occurs intentionally with technology.
i think its just another effect of rapidly evolving technologies and requirements.

sure, back in the day, things lasted for ever.
but back in the day, innovation and technology didnt move as rapidly, requiring new devices to accommodate for them.

try loading javascript heavy websites on an iPhone 2g.
not a very fun experience.

make a phone call using a 90's desk telephone? no problem.

telephone technology and website standards move at different paces.

were just enthusiast of the fast pace technology.

 

[gotluck]

keeping things up to date and standard makes servicing said device MUCH easier.

I view that as more of an excuse to force updates rather than a necessity.

They could still make servicers update devices in order to receive support.

...

This isnt directed towards you at all, but it is funny to read the continuous responses knocking android updates, when we are talking about the desire to refuse updates/rollback here.

 

[Menneisyys2]

Innovation ?
All most of android phones can do is "more of the same" : Samesung Universe 56 had a 17" display ? Samesung universe 57 will have a 18" display. No matter if it needs a backpack to be carry on and hands like King Kong to be used .... it must have a larger display !
Samesung World 103 had a eightcore 3 Ghz ? Samesung World 104 will have a 12-core 3Ghz. Just to try to be different from a crowd of all identical boring phones ...

Last time I checked the only potentially great step ahead was made by Apple with a 64-bit architecture and a fingerprint sensor that really works.
Speaking about innovation ....

I've listed a lot of true innovations in competing non-iOS flagships (Qi, much better video recording, dual recording, in for example low light much better camera etc). Those flagships do have much-much more true innovations. Sure, it's not 64-bit and not a fingerprint sensor but I still deem the former innovations far more useful than, say, the fingerprint sensor. Heck, the 5s can't even record stereo audio while shooting video - its video support is REALLY outdated.... and I haven't even mentioned 1080p60 or even true 720p120 (the 5s only shoots at 360p120 effectively as it records at half the resolution of the output file.)

Of course, if you aren't interested in shooting with the camera, recharging the device wirelessly etc., then, you may not find the vastly superior camera, (with additional battery / other covers) the Qi of the Note 3, the Lumia 1020 etc. that useful. Being a VERY frequent camera user and hating recharging wires, I do value them much more than the fingerprint sensor.

----------

I view that as more of an excuse to force updates rather than a necessity.

They could still make servicers update devices in order to receive support.

...

This isnt directed towards you at all, but it is funny to read the continuous responses knocking android updates, when we are talking about the desire to refuse updates/rollback here.

And, again, let's point out that many software upgrades have actually removed previously existing, great functionality, in order to force people to upgrade to new models:

- slow-motion video recording in the iPhone 4S
- anti-aliasing on the iPad 1/2
etc.

 

[jrswizzle]

I view that as more of an excuse to force updates rather than a necessity.

They could still make servicers update devices in order to receive support.

...

This isnt directed towards you at all, but it is funny to read the continuous responses knocking android updates, when we are talking about the desire to refuse updates/rollback here.

View it however you wish - point still remains. Is it easier for a company to service devices on a standard version of an OS, or devices on 6 different versions, all with varying degrees of feature and functionality.

----------

i dont believe that 'planned obsolescence' occurs intentionally with technology.
i think its just another effect of rapidly evolving technologies and requirements.

sure, back in the day, things lasted for ever.
but back in the day, innovation and technology didnt move as rapidly, requiring new devices to accommodate for them.

try loading javascript heavy websites on an iPhone 2g.
not a very fun experience.

make a phone call using a 90's desk telephone? no problem.

telephone technology and website standards move at different paces.

were just enthusiast of the fast pace technology.

This guy has it right here. 100% agree.

I'd also like to point out, Apple tried keeping a piece of software working with Legacy devices for years.....that software was iTunes and it was so bloated keeping up with all the older devices, it eventually had to be re-written....

 

[Max(IT)]

I've listed a lot of true innovations in competing non-iOS flagships (Qi, much better video recording, dual recording, in for example low light much better camera etc). Those flagships do have much-much more true innovations. Sure, it's not 64-bit and not a fingerprint sensor but I still deem the former innovations far more useful than, say, the fingerprint sensor. Heck, the 5s can't even record stereo audio while shooting video - its video support is REALLY outdated.... and I haven't even mentioned 1080p60 or even true 720p120 (the 5s only shoots at 360p120 effectively as it records at half the resolution of the output file.)

Of course, if you aren't interested in shooting with the camera, recharging the device wirelessly etc., then, you may not find the vastly superior camera, (with additional battery / other covers) the Qi of the Note 3, the Lumia 1020 etc. that useful. Being a VERY frequent camera user and hating recharging wires, I do value them much more than the fingerprint sensor.

Note 3 and Lumia 1020 aren't really smartphones in my opinion: they are phablet , a category I classified like useless. Not real tablet. Not sleek smartphones.
Your "innovations" are just improvement in a sector (video and photo) where a smartphone is just a "casual player".
I'm not a pro, but it like photography very much and I have a real dslr for serious shots.
For casual shots my iPhone is more than enough without the need to carry with me a monster like Nokia Lumia 1020.
Fingerprint sensor isn't an innovation ? I bet we are going to see quite a lot on many future Samsung phones as well

 

[jrswizzle]

I've listed a lot of true innovations in competing non-iOS flagships (Qi, much better video recording, dual recording, in for example low light much better camera etc). Those flagships do have much-much more true innovations. Sure, it's not 64-bit and not a fingerprint sensor but I still deem the former innovations far more useful than, say, the fingerprint sensor. Heck, the 5s can't even record stereo audio while shooting video - its video support is REALLY outdated.... and I haven't even mentioned 1080p60 or even true 720p120 (the 5s only shoots at 360p120 effectively as it records at half the resolution of the output file.)

Of course, if you aren't interested in shooting with the camera, recharging the device wirelessly etc., then, you may not find the vastly superior camera, (with additional battery / other covers) the Qi of the Note 3, the Lumia 1020 etc. that useful. Being a VERY frequent camera user and hating recharging wires, I do value them much more than the fingerprint sensor.

# of times I've wanted to record at 1080p60 = 0
# of times I've used the fingerprint sensor to bypass my more secure password = too many to count

All your posts do is point out what YOU look for in a smartphone. That's fine. YOU buy what's best for YOUR needs. The Note 3 seems to have all the things you say the iPhone should have, so go buy the Note 3 (Actually, I think you said you were going to go with the Note 4 or GS5....).

The roughly 100 million people who buy iPhones every year don't do so for 1080p60 video recording or wireless (NOT) charging. They do so for a long list of other reasons. Just because those reasons don't jive with what you look for, doesn't mean they are valid and valuable.

 

[Menneisyys2]

# of times I've wanted to record at 1080p60 = 0
# of times I've used the fingerprint sensor to bypass my more secure password = too many to count

All your posts do is point out what YOU look for in a smartphone. That's fine. YOU buy what's best for YOUR needs. The Note 3 seems to have all the things you say the iPhone should have, so go buy the Note 3 (Actually, I think you said you were going to go with the Note 4 or GS5....).

The roughly 100 million people who buy iPhones every year don't do so for 1080p60 video recording or wireless (NOT) charging. They do so for a long list of other reasons. Just because those reasons don't jive with what you look for, doesn't mean they are valid and valuable.

I agree we all have different needs. However, this still doesn't mean Apple isn't innovating. They do keep innovating. It's just that their competitors are innovating faster and including a lot of, for a lot of users (incl. me) useful / essential functionality in their handsets. This is why I'm pretty unhappy with Apple. and, of course, because of their hostile stance against users, including removing previously existing features like the slow-motion video in the 4S via firmware updates.

 

[gotluck]

View it however you wish - point still remains. Is it easier for a company to service devices on a standard version of an OS, or devices on 6 different versions, all with varying degrees of feature and functionality.

Yes and they could, without taking away rights common to all other modern OS's

 

[jrswizzle]

Yes and they could, without taking away rights common to all other modern OS's

Seeing anything offered by a smartphone as a "right" is a mistake honestly.....

Perhaps you didn't mean it the way you said it. But that choice of words belies an entitlement to a certain level of experience.....when there is no obligation for any of these tech companies to provide said experience.

Again, consumers have the ultimate power. When one decides the experience no longer warrants the price, that consumer moves on. It really is that simple.

Seems though, too many people feel they need to start some "movement" to get (in this case) Apple to do things "the right way" or offer "freedom of choice".

That's not how this works.

 

[Hackintosh Sr.]

I would rather have an OS built to take advantage of the fastest hardware vs. the slowest. I don't want an OS with Iphone 4s speed in mind. I want an OS that makes it fast as possible on what they just released. Say for example they were going to take out UI animations(even though they kind of suck, but for example purposes) just because it didn't run right on Iphone 4s. There would be an example of a feature that they left out for the iphone 5s just because iphone 4s couldn't handle it and so on.

It is not mandatory for you to update your phone to ios7. If it is that big of deal to you, then stay on the ios version your device came with.

 

[Menneisyys2]

It is not mandatory for you to update your phone to ios7.

I wish this was true...

 

[gotluck]

Seeing anything offered by a smartphone as a "right" is a mistake honestly.....

Perhaps you didn't mean it the way you said it. But that choice of words belies an entitlement to a certain level of experience.....when there is no obligation for any of these tech companies to provide said experience.

Again, consumers have the ultimate power. When one decides the experience no longer warrants the price, that consumer moves on. It really is that simple. Don't need that **** anyway.

Seems though, too many people feel they need to start some "movement" to get (in this case) Apple to do things "the right way" or offer "freedom of choice".

That's not how this works.

Nah, I meant it that way. I believe if we don't get some list of 'computing rights' going its just a matter of time before all OS' are jailed and freedom is restricted, because that method is best for corporate profits (not the user). Leading to the castration of the internet and all that good stuff. I'm worried about the slippery slope, before iOS no mainstream OS was this restrictive. I honestly feel like Apple owns my device, until the day it's jailbroken..then it's finally mine. Nah I take that back, I still can't downgrade anything newer than an iphone 4.

The right to have the product like you bought it (factory state) doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me. Deny me genius bar support unless I upgrade, I couldn't care less.

iphone = computer, it's not really a phone anymore. What is a tablet then?

 

[jrswizzle]

Nah, I meant it that way. I believe if we don't get some list of 'computing rights' going its just a matter of time before all OS' are jailed and freedom is restricted, because that method is best for corporate profits (not the user). Leading to the castration of the internet and all that good stuff. I'm worried about the slippery slope, before iOS no mainstream OS was this restrictive. I honestly feel like Apple owns my device, until the day it's jailbroken..then it's finally mine. Nah I take that back, I still can't downgrade anything newer than an iphone 4.

The right to have the product like you bought it (factory state) doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me.

iphone = computer, it's not really a phone anymore. What is a tablet then?

I couldn't disagree more. But seems like you'd be more suited for an Android device. That's what I'd suggest - that way you don't have to worry about Apple taking away your freedoms.

 

[gotluck]

I couldn't disagree more. But seems like you'd be more suited for an Android device. That's what I'd suggest - that way you don't have to worry about Apple taking away your freedoms.

That doesn't solve the slippery slope problem. They took your's away too you know, you just don't care. Well actually, they never gave anyone freedom. These 'common rights' so to speak.

"You were always a slave, so it's okay"

 

[teknikal90]

I've listed a lot of true innovations in competing non-iOS flagships (Qi, much better video recording, dual recording, in for example low light much better camera etc). Those flagships do have much-much more true innovations. Sure, it's not 64-bit and not a fingerprint sensor but I still deem the former innovations far more useful than, say, the fingerprint sensor. Heck, the 5s can't even record stereo audio while shooting video - its video support is REALLY outdated.... and I haven't even mentioned 1080p60 or even true 720p120 (the 5s only shoots at 360p120 effectively as it records at half the resolution of the output file.)

Of course, if you aren't interested in shooting with the camera, recharging the device wirelessly etc., then, you may not find the vastly superior camera, (with additional battery / other covers) the Qi of the Note 3, the Lumia 1020 etc. that useful. Being a VERY frequent camera user and hating recharging wires, I do value them much more than the fingerprint sensor.

----------



And, again, let's point out that many software upgrades have actually removed previously existing, great functionality, in order to force people to upgrade to new models:

- slow-motion video recording in the iPhone 4S
- anti-aliasing on the iPad 1/2
etc.

everyone innovates.
android manufacturers take ideas and implement them in a half baked fashion
Apple takes them and implements them in a three quarter baked fashion

since id rather a device that bring 8 new features that work well 3/4 of the time than a device that brings 12 new features that work well 1/2 of the time, i choose apple.

but theyre both equal to 6. so no fighting required.

 

[jrswizzle]

That doesn't solve the slippery slope problem. They took your's away too you know, you just don't care. Well actually, they never gave anyone freedom. These 'common rights' so to speak.

There are no "common rights". Nor should there be. There is a list of features and specs which, based on what a user is looking for, make up the overall experience.

You decide whether or not to purchase a device based on these criteria. I for one feel perfectly free to use the device how I feel it should be used. I don't feel restricted at all.

I'm not sure what device would satisfy your criteria....really just all sounds relatively crazy to me. It's a smartphone. I don't tend to attach strong words and feelings to devices that make my life relatively easier and are fun to have, but ultimately don't affect whether I live or die. My wife's grandparents live a healthy, happy life without any of these devices.

I live a healthy, happy life with them. To each his own....but to say something designed by someone else should function exactly like I say it should makes little to no sense. I didn't design and build it. Sure I bought it - but I bought it knowing what it could do and how I would do it.

 

[roadbloc]

no!

Yes. The tech industry discovered long ago, just as the light-bulb industry did, you start making products that can last forever then you will see a massive reduction in profits.

 

[jrswizzle]

"You were always a slave, so it's okay"

I've used a number of other devices - work on a Dell, play on an MBA, own an iPad, Nexus 5 and iPhone 5s.

I dictate my use case and in no way do I feel restricted when I use my iPhone. Maybe because I was aware of whatever "limitations" it has when I bought it....or perhaps because I understand what the device was designed to do and how it was designed to do it.

 

[gotluck]

There are no "common rights". Nor should there be. There is a list of features and specs which, based on what a user is looking for, make up the overall experience.

You decide whether or not to purchase a device based on these criteria. I for one feel perfectly free to use the device how I feel it should be used. I don't feel restricted at all.

I'm not sure what device would satisfy your criteria....really just all sounds relatively crazy to me. It's a smartphone. I don't tend to attach strong words and feelings to devices that make my life relatively easier and are fun to have, but ultimately don't affect whether I live or die. My wife's grandparents live a healthy, happy life without any of these devices.

I live a healthy, happy life with them. To each his own....but to say something designed by someone else should function exactly like I say it should makes little to no sense. I didn't design and build it. Sure I bought it - but I bought it knowing what it could do and how I would do it.

but there are common user rights, just look at the permissions the user gets in other OS'.. IE. they have more permissions.

You bought the device knowing what it could do, but if Apple chooses to change it in a software update you cannot go back. This is a legitimate complaint. You can disagree, I don't really understand why, because none of this has to effect you personally. It's just an option.

----------

I've used a number of other devices - work on a Dell, play on an MBA, own an iPad, Nexus 5 and iPhone 5s.

I dictate my use case and in no way do I feel restricted when I use my iPhone. Maybe because I was aware of whatever "limitations" it has when I bought it....or perhaps because I understand what the device was designed to do and how it was designed to do it.

most of the limitations are skin deep and the functionality is there but locked, like the filesystem. The common complaint of.. that'll take too much dev time.. is so much BS... it's all there already.

 

[jrswizzle]

but there are common user rights, just look at the permissions the user gets in other OS'.. IE. they have more permissions.

You bought the device knowing what it could do, but if Apple chooses to change it in a software update you cannot go back. This is a legitimate complaint. You can disagree, I don't really understand why, because none of this has to effect you personally. It's just an option.

----------



most of the limitations are skin deep and the functionality is there but locked, like the filesystem

I think I'm one of the few who actually prefers the way iOS handles files versus a traditional filesystem.

I see my devices as distinct and separate. I know plenty of people want and feel like their smartphone can be computer replacements. And in many ways it can - but I also don't want or need to interact with my smartphone the same way I've always interacted with a computer. Different device = different experience.

As for the option part - again, don't mistake my disagreement with your "rights" comments for a desire to NOT see any options added. I'm simply indifferent to the whole thing. If Apple opens stuff up, fine. It won't affect me a bit one way or the other - but I recognize others want it.

I guess I'm also realistic about what I see Apple doing in the future. I understand their philosophy and don't see some of this stuff gelling with what they see the smartphone being. You disagree with that? Buy something else.

I'm a regular old user. I don't really care about "permissions" as far as being able to change and tweak things. I upgrade when new stuff comes out and use it just fine. Call me a sheep, or blind. I guess I am.....

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[TheGenerous]

I still use my TI-83 if that makes you happy.

 

[gotluck]

I think I'm one of the few who actually prefers the way iOS handles files versus a traditional filesystem.

I see my devices as distinct and separate. I know plenty of people want and feel like their smartphone can be computer replacements. And in many ways it can - but I also don't want or need to interact with my smartphone the same way I've always interacted with a computer. Different device = different experience.

As for the option part - again, don't mistake my disagreement with your "rights" comments for a desire to NOT see any options added. I'm simply indifferent to the whole thing. If Apple opens stuff up, fine. It won't affect me a bit one way or the other - but I recognize others want it.

I guess I'm also realistic about what I see Apple doing in the future. I understand their philosophy and don't see some of this stuff gelling with what they see the smartphone being. You disagree with that? Buy something else.

I'm a regular old user. I don't really care about "permissions" as far as being able to change and tweak things. I upgrade when new stuff comes out and use it just fine. Call me a sheep, or blind. I guess I am.....

Ignorance is bliss.

It's apathy that will lead to the censorship of the internet in the US at least.
The internets patriot act.

Anyways all of my complaints could be silenced if apple allowed downgrading. I would even spam good guy apple memes on this forum.

 

[wilky76]

In most situations recording video with Mono sound is actually better than Stereo, Google it and you see why this is.

It's could be one of the reasons as to why Apple decided to leave out Stereo recording when recording video.

 

[Menneisyys2]

In most situations recording video with Mono sound is actually better than Stereo, Google it and you see why this is.

Wrong, unless you use badly engineered mikes - that is, ones that don't record much audio from the front. There's a reason everything has went stereo. You won't show me any contemporary consumer, non-entry-level P&S camera with mono-only audio.

It's could be one of the reasons as to why Apple decided to leave out Stereo recording when recording video.

Highly unlikely.

 

[cwwilson]

The newest software is always going to be built around the newest hardware so that the newest phone will have the best experience. Remember how fast the iPhone 4 was on iOS 4? iOS 5 ran circles around it with the A5 processor. iOS 7 was made for the A6 and A7. iOS 6 didn't even run that well on my 4 and iOS 7 just killed it dead. The software gets more and more demanding with all the new tricks Apple implements so eventually you will have to upgrade your device to keep up.