Planning ahead when buying a television

[balamw]

One review complains that you can't choose the aspect ratio for HD input, only for non-HD input. I don't understand why you'd need that; is that so you can decide how to handle 1080i input on the 720p display?

There are occasions when the signal doesn't match the the expectations. I haven't seen this for any HD content myself, but I own a number of DVDs that aren't done in "true" i.e. anamorphic widescreen so when played on an widescreen HDTV you get black bars on all sides. In this case it's nice to be able to tell it to blow it up and fill the screen. (i.e the video is encoded as full screen, including the back bars for widescreen)

The LG has the best contrast ratio (1600:1, compared to 1200:1 for the Sharp and 800:1 for the ViewSonic). I don't know much about LG Electronics as a company, but another LG model came up #1 in Consumer Reports' last review of 37" HDTVs.

FWIW LG used to sell their products under the Goldstar brand until recently... Perhaps that name is more familiar.

EDIT: Also, note that some functions may not work as you might expect. My Samsung LCD for instance, has PIP, but it only works for OTA TV signals and not the composite, VGA or HDMI inputs.

Finally I would suggest as others have that 2 HDMI ports should be a bare minimum for consideration of a TV that you hope will last a few years...

B

 

[matticus008]

Price aside, which of any is clearly best for displaying:

(1) DVDs (current format)
(2) DVDs (forthcoming HD or Blu-Ray)
(3) HD broadcasts
(4) Analog broadcasts

Assuming a display measuring under 40" viewed from about 12 feet.

Followup question: I know some of the set manufacturers are doing a better job of cleaning up analog broadcasts signals for digital display. Which ones?

1) DLP or LCoS projection sets have the cleanest DVD reproduction and the best blacks. LCDs are getting pretty good, though.

2) I have no idea--never tried an HD DVD. Maybe someone else has an opinion?

3) LCD TVs are particularly impressive with good HD signals

4) SDTVs . Really, though, something about plasmas tends to soften the "blotchiness" of upscaling without making the pictures look "soft." DLP sets are probably a runner-up in my opinion, but this one is extremely subjective. Do you like sharp lines, bright colors, consistency, or detail?

As for brands, I have been especially impressed by DLP offerings from Philips and Toshiba (and sometimes Samsung). LG and Samsung make solid LCDs. I'm not sure about Plasmas, but my neighbor's been quite happy with his Panasonic.

 

[balamw]

4) SDTVs . Really, though, something about plasmas tends to soften the "blotchiness" of upscaling without making the pictures look "soft." DLP sets are probably a runner-up in my opinion, but this one is extremely subjective. Do you like sharp lines, bright colors, consistency, or detail?

Subjective is the key word. Viewing conditions also play a key role.

Any time you play content that isn't at the native resolution you get some level of scaling artifacts, so this can be particularly evident for scaled SD content. However, just like most people don't notice the MPEG artifacts in a DVD or find 128 kbps MP3 "intolerable", for most people sitting far enough away fro the screen you won't notice them and you'll feel about as good about the picture as the same SD content on a similar sized SDTV.

Even old iTMS video at 320x240 looks better than VHS on my 40" LCD when I'm sitting 10' from it. If I cut that distance in half I notice the blockiness.

B

 

[Doctor Q]

Finally I would suggest as others have that 2 HDMI ports should be a bare minimum for consideration of a TV that you hope will last a few years...

For those keeping score:

ViewSonic N3760W - 1 HDMI, 2 component, 2 s-video, 2 composite, 1 RF.

Sharp LC37D40U - 2 HDMI, 2 component, 1 s-video, 3 composite, 1 RF.

LG 37LC2D - 1 HDMI, 2 component, 1 s-video, 1 composite, 1 RF.

 

[IJ Reilly]

1) DLP or LCoS projection sets have the cleanest DVD reproduction and the best blacks. LCDs are getting pretty good, though.

Uh-oh, you threw me another acronym curve there! What's the difference between LCD and LCoS? I haven't seen any sets marketed as the latter.

Also, any opinions about cable card vs. cable ready? On the Crutchfield site Dr. Q linked, it says that cable card TVs don't provided access to on-screen program guides. What's up with that? Otherwise, it seems obvious that getting rid of the box would be a huge plus for a cable card TV.

Lots of good information here guys, thanks! Hope I'm not hijacking the thread, Dr. Q!

 

[balamw]

Uh-oh, you threw me another acronym curve there! What's the difference between LCD and LCoS? I haven't seen any sets marketed as the latter.

Essentially there are two types of LCD, direct LCD and projection LCD. LCoS (Liquid Crystal on Silicon) is usually the latter, sort of a cross between LCD and DLP.

I don't have a Cable Card opinion since TiVo came into my life.

B

 

[matticus008]

Uh-oh, you threw me another acronym curve there! What's the difference between LCD and LCoS? I haven't seen any sets marketed as the latter.

LCoS is liquid crystal on silicon. It's actually more similar to DLP than LCD (it is a projection format rather than a transmissive format), and it's relatively rare. Basically, it uses an LCD panel for each RGB channel and a bright light, rather than DLP's color wheel. They tend to be high-resolution (at least 720p and never less) and pretty expensive, but it's seen by many as an improvement on DLP technology. Think of it as an LCD projector and a screen contained in a single unit, only better.

Also, any opinions about cable card vs. cable ready? On the Crutchfield site Dr. Q linked, it says that cable card TVs don't provided access to on-screen program guides. What's up with that? Otherwise, it seems obvious that getting rid of the box would be a huge plus for a cable card TV.

I wouldn't jump on that bandwagon just yet. It's not really clear what kind of future CableCard actually has, whether cable companies will charge reasonable rates for the cards without the leased boxes, etc. I'd rather just put up with the devil I know (the cable/satellite box) than pay extra for something that doesn't exist yet and might not offer what it promised. CC is sort of like the Vista of cable television. It keeps getting scaled back and might never actually arrive in a usable form. That's just my impression, of course.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I wouldn't jump on that bandwagon just yet. It's not really clear what kind of future CableCard actually has, whether cable companies will charge reasonable rates for the cards without the leased boxes, etc. I'd rather just put up with the devil I know (the cable/satellite box) than pay extra for something that doesn't exist yet and might not offer what it promised. CC is sort of like the Vista of cable television. It keeps getting scaled back and might never actually arrive in a usable form. That's just my impression, of course.

From my reading, it seems that cable card TVs are becoming the norm, so pretty soon we won't have any choice except I suppose hooking a cable card TV up to a cable box, which I presume will still be possible. I do hate that cable box. It sits there sucking up electricity (a lot of it!) and doing nothing of value about 90% of the time. Cable cards, though -- this does seem like an unripe technology, just like so much of the HD scene!

 

[rdowns]

The closer I get to finally buying an LCD, the more confused I get.

IJ, cable cards, at least for TW, don't have the same functionality of the damn box.

 

[scorpion151]

my sharp aquos TV can use a 1080i signal i think, thats not the blueray one right? but yah, the thing looks great and havent had any troubles with it for the past 6 months or so.


its a 37 by the way...

 

[matticus008]

From my reading, it seems that cable card TVs are becoming the norm, so pretty soon we won't have any choice except I suppose hooking a cable card TV up to a cable box, which I presume will still be possible. I do hate that cable box.

It's easy to get that impression based on the literature and the supposedly high penetration of HDTVs in the US, but in reality the typical cable box isn't going anywhere any time soon.

Even if 50% of American households have an HDTV, it's quite likely that they have additional SDTV sets--I can't remember where I read this, but the average American family has something like 3.2 TVs (more than children!). If that's true, that means that HDTVs might only account for 1/6 of all the sets, and only a minority of HDTVs have CC slots. It's the future, perhaps, but only one possible future. What is more likely is the introduction of CC cable boxes (we're already seeing this), so people can pull the card and put it directly in their TV (but without access to the interactive software provided by a cable box).

The card isn't a processor, so the program guide, OnDemand, DVR, etc. won't work without a cable box anyway. The TV can only display what's fed to it; it can't create its own content, aside from the on-screen menu. Cable boxes create the program guide, etc. in software. Since the only reason I have digital services is for that DVR and program guide, CC is a useless technology for me. But if you use the box only as a tuner, that functionality is built into CableCard TVs.

 

[IJ Reilly]

The closer I get to finally buying an LCD, the more confused I get.

IJ, cable cards, at least for TW, don't have the same functionality of the damn box.

Curse that damn box.

Yeah, I'm pretty confused too. This thread has helped me sort things out quite a bit, but I still don't feel much closer to making a decision to dump the old glass TV. HDTVs are still pretty expensive, and I know I'll be stuck with whatever decision I make for quite awhile. I know a lot of early adopters got burned. With all of the competing specifications and features, I wonder if it isn't still burn time if you don't choose wisely.

 

[Doctor Q]

Lots of good information here guys, thanks! Hope I'm not hijacking the thread, Dr. Q!

Go right ahead and bring up whatever HDTV questions you have, and any answers you find. We have varying levels of knowledge so we can help each other.

As with most technology, I read enough to feel confident before making a purchase, and MacRumors is there when I need advice!

I talked my dad out of getting a cable card when he got cable service and a TV, because of the features it doesn't provide compared to a cable box.

 

[Veritas&Equitas]

I didn't read the whole thread, but saw that you are interested in a 37'' LCD. I just bought the Westinghouse 37'' LVM-37W3, and I use it as both a computer monitor and an HDTV, and it's flat out amazing.

8 ms response, 1080p, 16:9, 1920x1080 with TONS of inputs for around $1,150 shipped (what I paid from J&R)= HELL YEAH!

You can read more about it on [H]ardForums here and here. AVS Forums and Cnet consumer reviews also praise it quite highly as well. I couldn't be happier with a monitor/HDTV! Man, I sound like a salesman, but it's true

 

[IJ Reilly]

I didn't read the whole thread, but saw that you are interested in a 37'' LCD. I just bought the Westinghouse 37'' LVM-37W3, and I use it as both a computer monitor and an HDTV, and it's flat out amazing.

8 ms response, 1080p, 16:9, 1920x1080 with TONS of inputs for around $1,150 shipped (what I paid from J&R)= HELL YEAH!

You can read more about it on [H]ardForums here and here. AVS Forums and Cnet consumer reviews also praise it quite highly as well. I couldn't be happier with a monitor/HDTV! Man, I sound like a salesman, but it's true

Note, this is a monitor, not a TV. No built-in tuner or speakers. Westinghouse does make TVs, too, though.

 

[balamw]

Note, this is a monitor, not a TV. No built-in tuner or speakers. Westinghouse does make TVs, too, though.

For some folks that might actually be a better choice.

Kinda like the iMac, if you know you're not going to use the speakers or use the tuner it kinda sucks that you may need to buy the whole package.

Similarly, if your cable box puts out component or HDMI and you plan to use a 5.1 capable receiver for audio all you really need is a monitor.

B

 

[IJ Reilly]

For some folks that might actually be a better choice.

Kinda like the iMac, if you know you're not going to use the speakers or use the tuner it kinda sucks that you may need to buy the whole package.

Similarly, if your cable box puts out component or HDMI and you plan to use a 5.1 capable receiver for audio all you really need is a monitor.

B

Granted. I mean, that thought had occurred to me. I was really just pointing out that you're probably not going to find a 37" LCD 1080p HDTV for $1,150.00 -- at least, not yet.

At some point I'm probably going to get the home theater sound system, but I'd still like to have built-in speakers, if only because I'm not going to want to power up a few hundred watts just to watch the news.

 

[balamw]

Granted. I mean, that thought had occurred to me. I was really just pointing out that you're probably not going to find a 37" LCD 1080p HDTV for $1,150.00 -- at least, not yet.

At some point I'm probably going to get the home theater sound system, but I'd still like to have built-in speakers, if only because I'm not going to want to power up a few hundred watts just to watch the news.

Agreed, I was just pointing it out for anyone else who might be considering a purchase...

FWIW. We used to have the TV hooked up to surround via a receiver, but I never hooked it up in the new house. The room isn't well suited for it and I'm also trying to keep it simple enough that my kids can watch TV without adult intervention...

B

 

[Doctor Q]

I just saw this post by MacCurry about Cold-Cathode-Flourescent-Lighting (CCFL) back lighting for LCDs. Look like another factor I'll have to study before knowing which models are best.

Sets this expensive lasting only 3-4 years?

 

[balamw]

I just saw this post by MacCurry about Cold-Cathode-Flourescent-Lighting (CCFL) back lighting for LCDs. Look like another factor I'll have to study before knowing which models are best.

Sets this expensive lasting only 3-4 years?

FWIW CCFLs have been in notebooks forever, and many of those get more hours than an HDTV. Plus, they're usually not that hard to replace...

That said, I did spring for the "extended warranty" on my 40" Samsung precisely for this reason.

B

 

[IJ Reilly]

After following the two threads on HDTV, I have to admit that I don't know how anyone can make a truly intelligent informed decision on buying one of these sets. The pitfalls and gotchas are all over the place and they only seem to proliferate with time. An impulse purchase seems like the way to go -- random selection seems to be about as bullet-proof a method of buying as studying the specifications and reading the reviews. It'll all change next week anyway...

 

[balamw]

It'll all change next week anyway...

Apple HDTVs next Tuesday!

B

 

[fastdrive]

Another thing you may also want to consider is the 720 v 768 issue. If the tv is 768 lines, you may end up with a lot of underscan or overscan.

I used to own a 768 DLP set and with my Windows HTPC I had to use a program like powerstrip to get custom resolution and timing to get the whole screen displayed correctly. I am not sure how Apple deals with this issue of adjusting for over/under scan (as I said never hooked my MBP to the TV)

I currently own a 50 in 720p plasma and don't have to worry about this issue atleast with the same HTPC box.

Secondly you have to be careful that not all 1080p sets are true 1080p. They use different electronic magic to display 1080p, but at the loss of FPS.

 

[Doctor Q]

Reviews I've found useful for the models I'm looking at:

ViewSonic N3760W - PC Magazine

Sharp LC37D40U - CNET

LG 37LC2D - Circuit City user reviews and post #140 here. I didn't find a magazine or tech site professional review.

And look what else I found: A $100 rebate on the 37LC2D this week.

 

[matticus008]

After following the two threads on HDTV, I have to admit that I don't know how anyone can make a truly intelligent informed decision on buying one of these sets.

That's just it; you can't. There are so many minor variations, even within given technologies, that no one person can stay on top of everything. TV shopping is even worse than computer shopping--your only real hope is to decide on a handful of features or performance standards that are essential to you and to rule everything else out altogether from the outset.

Once you've cut down the field, then you can start comparing the small details. I personally find it useful to confine myself to a few brands as well during the second round of cutbacks--unless there's a stellar model from a brand I wouldn't normally consider, I stick to a group of 6 or 7 brands which vary depending on the product. Even after all this cutting back, I'm still stuck with a good 15-20 individual products to consider, which is just enough for me to have variety and sanity at the same time.