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PlayStation 4 Slim and Pro (NEO)

iosuser said:
From Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/10663/analyzing-sonys-playstation-4-pro-announcement

On that note, while Sony is pitching the console for 4K video and gaming, Mark Cerny was rather clear that to reach 4K gaming, they expect developers to make significant use of both spatial and temporal anti-aliasing/reprojection.to reach 4K. In other words, most of the time the console won’t actually be rendering games at 4K. This makes a lot of sense; all else held equal, the PS4 Pro needs to fill 4x as many pixels with a GPU that’s (at best) 2.3x as powerful.

This means that the number of games that natively render at 4K is by necessity going to be relatively few. Games could still render at resolutions over 1080p (e.g. 2560x1440), giving them more fidelity than current 1080p games, but various upscaling/reprojection methods will have to close the gap to 4K. Given that even the best PC GPUs have only recently reached the performance level to render the necessary 8.3Mpixels without significant quality compromises, and we’re likely a generation (or more) from consoles being able to reach that same level.
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My gaming PC I use 2560x1440 now - my TV set renders down that down to 1080p very well. I can't tell the difference from resolutions above that so there's no reason for the card to work harder. It is interesting to see how my card performs at the higher resolutions, though.

If I was to get a 4K TV (using it as a desktop monitor I would be able to tell the difference), the games are still more or less developed for 1080p, plus my RX 470 doing games at 4K with anything turned on, the fps starts to plummit.

Not complaining since I got it for $175. But retailing for $200, it is possible to make a $400 console out of this. From what I'm hearing the PS4 Pro is built upon an RX 470 GPU.
 
gkarris said:
You are getting 205 Euros in for your old 1TB PS4? That seems a lot.

Right now, it is $125 trade money for the 500Gig and 1TB PS4's in the US...
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Even more. It's €399 normally so essentially they are giving you €255 ...

They do great trade up deals here.
 
gkarris said:
My gaming PC I use 2560x1440 now - my TV set renders down that down to 1080p very well. I can't tell the difference from resolutions above that so there's no reason for the card to work harder. It is interesting to see how my card performs at the higher resolutions, though.

If I was to get a 4K TV (using it as a desktop monitor I would be able to tell the difference), the games are still more or less developed for 1080p, plus my RX 470 doing games at 4K with anything turned on, the fps starts to plummit.

Not complaining since I got it for $175. But retailing for $200, it is possible to make a $400 console out of this. From what I'm hearing the PS4 Pro is built upon an RX 470 GPU.
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Yeah, the more I think about it, now that my 4K setup is complete with the XB1S to play UHD Bluray, the more pointless this whole 4K thing is for me. It all started when I jumped on the deal on this Sony 4K TV I have. I'm sitting just 4 feet from it, and I can't tell the difference from the 1080 disc of the same movie. Sure text is nice and crisp on the desktop, but I gotta set it to 200% scaling (effectively going back to a 1920x1080 desktop lol), otherwise I can read anything even from just 4' away.
 
I am curious to hear some user reports on how big the difference really is in games. My fear is that I expected a bigger upgrade than a 100€ premium in the console can afford. If it's rather incremental, I might pass.
 
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MRU said:
Even more. It's €399 normally so essentially they are giving you €255 ...

They do great trade up deals here.
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Sorry, getting my GBP and Euros mixed up (silly American... ;))

iosuser said:
Yeah, the more I think about it, now that my 4K setup is complete with the XB1S to play UHD Bluray, the more pointless this whole 4K thing is for me. It all started when I jumped on the deal on this Sony 4K TV I have. I'm sitting just 4 feet from it, and I can't tell the difference from the 1080 disc of the same movie. Sure text is nice and crisp on the desktop, but I gotta set it to 200% scaling (effectively going back to a 1920x1080 desktop lol), otherwise I can read anything even from just 4' away.
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Yeah, the guy at work said the ONLY 4K UHD BR movie he had where it actually made a difference (watched the regular BR until he got the XBox One S) was "The Revenant" (he has a 60" Samsung 4K UHD HDR set and watches from 6 feet away).

But again, how many movie studios are going to even bother with 4K UHD Discs? :eek:

(time to start planning the rest of my DVD upgrades to regular BR before all those go away...)

Here's an interesting article/graph:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by...d-vs-1080p-full-hd-tvs-and-upscaling-compared

resolution-4k-ultra-hd-chart-small.png


Looks like 4K gaming on a desktop monitor will make the difference (I use a Sharp 1080p 32" TV set on my gaming PC from just under 1 foot away).
 
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gkarris said:
Sorry, getting my GBP and Euros mixed up (silly American... ;))



Yeah, the guy at work said the ONLY 4K UHD BR movie he had where it actually made a difference (watched the regular BR until he got the XBox One S) was "The Revenant" (he has a 60" Samsung 4K UHD HDR set and watches from 6 feet away).

But again, how many movie studios are going to even bother with 4K UHD Discs? :eek:

(time to start planning the rest of my DVD upgrades to regular BR before all those go away...)

Here's an interesting article/graph:

http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by...d-vs-1080p-full-hd-tvs-and-upscaling-compared

resolution-4k-ultra-hd-chart-small.png


Looks like 4K gaming on a desktop monitor will make the difference (I use a Sharp 1080p 32" TV set on my gaming PC from just under 1 foot away).
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55" at 4' is well into the worth it zone. I should invest in some new glasses :D
 
4K....blah. The difference (for me) especially for CGI is tough to see, at the very least not worth the processing power. Thats my opinion.

However HDR....now thats where we are going to see tremendous differences. I made a brief video on youtube so people could help understand the difference although its much more impressive in real life with a moving image.

 
cynics said:
4K....blah. The difference (for me) especially for CGI is tough to see, at the very least not worth the processing power. Thats my opinion.

However HDR....now thats where we are going to see tremendous differences. I made a brief video on youtube so people could help understand the difference although its much more impressive in real life with a moving image.

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Yes - was just at Best Buy and the comparison in sets with and without HDR is astonishing - as long as the content supports it.

AFA the graph, feel sorry for the guy walking out with a new 65" 4K set that's gonna view it from 10 feet away in his living room.

At least in his mind, there's a difference... :eek:

(maybe he's the next evolution of humans that have higher resolution sensing eye retinas) ;)
 
gkarris said:
Yes - was just at Best Buy and the comparison in sets with and without HDR is astonishing - as long as the content supports it.

AFA the graph, feel sorry for the guy walking out with a new 65" 4K set that's gonna view it from 10 feet away in his living room.

At least in his mind, there's a difference... :eek:

(maybe he's the next evolution of humans that have higher resolution sensing eye retinas) ;)
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Ahem! Lol

IMG_0329.JPG

Those graphs are a good rule of thumb but not the end all be all. They are usually based on 20/20 vision which a very large portion of the population have better than, myself included. But more realistically the decision is made for you once you decide you want HDR. At least to the best of my knowledge all HDR sets are 4k.

I'm about 12' away and 4k is "fairly" obvious. Although that line becomes blurred when comparing high quality 1080p to mediocre 4k. BD/mkv vs 4k streamed on youtube from a subpar 4k camera for example. Conversely UHD BD vs BD is obvious.

EDIT: I sound like I'm justifying my purchase because I am. Damn thing wasn't cheap! But I don't have any buyers remorse so in the end I think it was well worth the money. Although to do over again I would consider an LG OLED more because of Dolby Vision and future proofing HDR content. Flip side is the input lag was too high for gaming for me. Buying a TV right now is like negotiating a mine field.
 
Well I'm going to get one but it is a bummer about the UHD support. I don't have a 4K or a HDR TV yet but I'll definitely be in the market early next year. $399.99 is a great price and I was in the market to buy another PS4 for the bedroom TV.


Bless
 
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cynics said:
Ahem! Lol

View attachment 649293

Those graphs are a good rule of thumb but not the end all be all. They are usually based on 20/20 vision which a very large portion of the population have better than, myself included. But more realistically the decision is made for you once you decide you want HDR. At least to the best of my knowledge all HDR sets are 4k.

I'm about 12' away and 4k is "fairly" obvious. Although that line becomes blurred when comparing high quality 1080p to mediocre 4k. BD/mkv vs 4k streamed on youtube from a subpar 4k camera for example. Conversely UHD BD vs BD is obvious.

EDIT: I sound like I'm justifying my purchase because I am. Damn thing wasn't cheap! But I don't have any buyers remorse so in the end I think it was well worth the money. Although to do over again I would consider an LG OLED more because of Dolby Vision and future proofing HDR content. Flip side is the input lag was too high for gaming for me. Buying a TV right now is like negotiating a mine field.
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You probably have 20/15 or glasses that bring you to that.

I had glasses but my correction was small so I was able to get 20/10 - that amount of clarity was scary... :eek:

So I didn't bother with them (plus I didn't have insurance so I didn't bother).
[doublepost=1473389414][/doublepost]
2nyRiggz said:
Well I'm going to get one but it is a bummer about the UHD support. I don't have a 4K or a HDR TV yet but I'll definitely be in the market early next year. $399.99 is a great price and I was in the market to buy another PS4 for the bedroom TV.


Bless
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Yeah, leapfrogging.

The XBox One S has 4K UHD BR Drive.
The PS4 Pro has a better GPU for 4K Up-scaling.
The XBox Scorpio will have actual 4K.
The PS5 will outdo Scorpio...

You gotta get something sometime.
 
MRU said:
On a 1tb HDD ... of all the things 1tb seems really inadequate on a device designed for 4k content.
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It's astounding how much they've slipped on this. They had such a good thing going with the PS4, the marketing and hype was perfect. Really wonder what they're playing at.

The refusal to release the PS1 emulator for PS4, refusal to even (publicly at least) attempt a PS3 emulator or PS2. And now it won't play 4K blurays. It's so bizarre! It's like they're cutting off backwards and future compatibility. I think this is going to sting them. I think MS are gaining public support now and Sony need to catch up.
 
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I haven't purchase a current gen console, I'm still using my PS3. I have a 4k TV, but it doesn't have HDR. When the rumors started for the PS4 Neo, I was willing to wait for that to be released to have a device that could drive all the 4k content to my TV. After the Xbox One S announcement, I thought "something like that is all Sony needs to make". After Sony's announcement this week I am very torn. If they had included 4k Blu-ray support, I would buy it when it comes it. I know I won't buy many/if any 4k Blu-Ray's, but I like knowing I could rent them and have the capability.

I'd prefer to stick with the Playstation console because I have a ton of PS+ games I have "purchased" and could download once I had the console, and friends who have a bunch of PS4 games, to have a good library when I get it. If I switched to the Xbox One S, it has exactly the features I want but I would have to invest more in getting a game collection.

I really feel Sony missed the mark with this release.
 
wwooden said:
I haven't purchase a current gen console, I'm still using my PS3. I have a 4k TV, but it doesn't have HDR. When the rumors started for the PS4 Neo, I was willing to wait for that to be released to have a device that could drive all the 4k content to my TV. After the Xbox One S announcement, I thought "something like that is all Sony needs to make". After Sony's announcement this week I am very torn. If they had included 4k Blu-ray support, I would buy it when it comes it. I know I won't buy many/if any 4k Blu-Ray's, but I like knowing I could rent them and have the capability.

I'd prefer to stick with the Playstation console because I have a ton of PS+ games I have "purchased" and could download once I had the console, and friends who have a bunch of PS4 games, to have a good library when I get it. If I switched to the Xbox One S, it has exactly the features I want but I would have to invest more in getting a game collection.

I really feel Sony missed the mark with this release.
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Sounds like your a candidate for a PS4 Pro - you'll be able to take advantage of the 4K Upscaling at least.

Sorry about your backward compatibility. It is available as "streaming" for playing PS3 games, but you have to pay for them over again if you already own them (same with PS2 and PSX games).

You'll just have to get a dedicated 4K UHD player next year when the price drops.

Sony's philosphy is mainly streaming with 4K movies and downloads with games.

The first time I saw a mockup of the PS4 at BestBuy I didn't even know where the disc slot was - it seems sort of hidden. I heard rumors that Sony decided to put an optical drive in it the last minute as Nintendo announced they were putting in an optical drive in their new Wii U...
 
If I don't have a 4K TV, although it supports full 1080 P with my PS4 currently, Is the PS4 Pro worth to my advantage or not? I am considering the Scorpio in Spring. Are there any advantages to having the Scorpio or Pro without 4K TV?

Any feed back on this would be helpful to me.
 
Relentless Power said:
If I don't have a 4K TV, although it supports full 1080 P with my PS4 currently, Is the PS4 Pro worth to my advantage or not? I am considering the Scorpio in Spring. Are there any advantages to having the Scorpio or Pro without 4K TV?

Any feed back on this would be helpful to me.
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It depends. It's highly likely that games with frame rate stutters will benefit greatly from the extra power meaning a more coherent and consistent performance level, likewise extra graphical effects afforded by the extra gpu power will still be available on it whether in 1080p or 4K so there will be (potentially) extra benefit there too.

If you currently have a PS4 would the new be worth rebuying in full ? Possibly not.... But if you can trade up so that you subsidise the pricing with your old PS4 then the new model is worth it.

If you don't have a PS4 as is, I would get the Pro regardless. Yes it's $100 more than the slim, but it's also far more future proof especially as developers begin optimising games for it.
 
MRU said:
Even more. It's €399 normally so essentially they are giving you €255 ...

They do great trade up deals here.
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I got an e-mail from Gamestop. All they're doing in the US is $125 for a PS4 in trade towards a PS4 Slim or Pro (that's their normal trade value) or $150 for any Xbox towards a PS4 Slim or Pro (that's $50 extra).

Interesting...
 
gkarris said:
I got an e-mail from Gamestop. All they're doing in the US is $125 for a PS4 in trade towards a PS4 Slim or Pro (that's their normal trade value) or $150 for any Xbox towards a PS4 Slim or Pro (that's $50 extra).

Interesting...
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Wow that's miserable by comparison.
 
gkarris said:
I got an e-mail from Gamestop. All they're doing in the US is $125 for a PS4 in trade towards a PS4 Slim or Pro (that's their normal trade value) or $150 for any Xbox towards a PS4 Slim or Pro (that's $50 extra).

Interesting...
Click to expand...

Never buy consoles at gamestop, go somewhere else.
 
MRU said:
It depends. It's highly likely that games with frame rate stutters will benefit greatly from the extra power meaning a more coherent and consistent performance level, likewise extra graphical effects afforded by the extra gpu power will still be available on it whether in 1080p or 4K so there will be (potentially) extra benefit there too.

If you currently have a PS4 would the new be worth rebuying in full ? Possibly not.... But if you can trade up so that you subsidise the pricing with your old PS4 then the new model is worth it.

If you don't have a PS4 as is, I would get the Pro regardless. Yes it's $100 more than the slim, but it's also far more future proof especially as developers begin optimising games for it.
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Thanks for the advice. Appreciated.
 
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Centaurr said:
Never buy consoles at gamestop, go somewhere else.
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They've been giving good deals on Microsoft - but now that these companies are actually subsidizing the actual retailer... :eek:

I have a *strong* feeling that PS4 Pro's will be "very hard to get" :eek:, sort of like No Mans Sky Limited PS4 Editions (which are now available plenty).

We dumb Americans... ;)
 
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