Police Arrest 141 New York City Merchants in Stolen iPhone Sting

[joeip77]

Now why the heck would Apple do this? And if they do, who do you think will pay for the time and resources to do it? Not to mention the litigation Apple would face should their records be in error.

This is the way its been working for years. Its Still being done.
(Not on iPhones) It just seems that with the popularity of the iPhone why not just stop stolen iPhones from being blacklisted and then we can make some more money every month off of Stollen Property.
This is just wrong. Very easy to understand. Its just Greed.$$$$$
Maybe with the T-Mobile deal falling thru. A$$ can use that 39 billion they were going to spend and the extra money there making allowing stollen iPhones back on there network for profit, to let us have all have unlimited data and no data caps.

Merry Christmas

 

[disinfectant]

The New York Post? Really?
I've seen better journalism on Tumblr.

 

[joeip77]

This is dump!

It is AT&T and Apple's fault! They want to make money on stolen phones or other iDevices.

ACTIVATION and USAGE both works on Apple and AT&T servers, so they can block the IMEI numbers. The phone will not work unless it is returned.

Sweet
Finally someone gets it.
Wow
Cant more people see whats going on.

Merry Christmas

 

[Frankie4Fingers]

This is the way its been working for years. Its Still being done. (Not on iPhones)

What is *still* being done?

It just seems that with the popularity of the iPhone why not just stop stolen iPhones from being blacklisted and then we can make some more money every month off of Stollen Property.

Now you're beginning to understand why Apple will never get into the business of policing stolen goods.

Merry Christmas

You too!

 

[Judas1]

This is a ridiculous waste of resource to go after people who are just opportunistic. Most people are opportunistic, doesn't mean they're the type of bad guys who'd mug another person. I'm sure none of you have have ever turned a blind eye to some wrongdoing. Why don't the cops go after the muggers, the real criminals? Stake a beat at known crowded places that thiefs tend to be maybe. Or how about people with expensive items be more self aware of their surroundings. The world isn't sunshine and lollipop. I don't see the point of arresting real regular people who just happen to not be good sumeritans.

 

[joeip77]

What is *still* being done?



Now you're beginning to understand why Apple will never get into the business of policing stolen goods.

You too!

I was talking about blacklisting

Call sprint and tell them you want to check the status of the esn number on a pre-owned (stolen)phone before you buy it, they will most likely be happy to check the status for you.

Try this with ATT and you you'll see what I mean.
ATT are the ones that should be doing this,just like they used to.
If a phone was reported stollen a few years ago it was not ever allowed back on the network, and in some cases were the phone was recovered, it took an act of God almost to get it back on the network. I definitely know this is still in effect at sprint for sure.
ATT and Apple are making a profit of of stollen property and they know it.
Most folks just don't know this is going on and if they did I don't think they would care as long as they get there new shiny iPhone.
Sad but true

Joe

 

[Apple OC]

if the shoe was on the other foot and a merchant offered to sell a "cheap" iPhone ... there would be more than a few Cops willing to pick one up

 

[kylos]

If your second scenario above is considered entrapment, then I think there is a strong argument of entrapment here since they are walking into the store and approaching the store owners out of the blue with a contrived offer.

But I think there's another concern and that is that hopefully the police allow enough time after the store owner buys the item to make certain they were not going to turn around and call the police to report the incident.

...

You raise some good points. The laws in various jurisdictions take precedence over what is ethical, though. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't say whether what the police are doing constitutes entrapment, but my understanding is that entrapment laws are designed to protect people from being solicited to commit a crime.

That wouldn't be entrapment, that would be a lot worse.

Yes. In this case, you wouldn't even be able to convict the purchaser, since to their knowledge, it was a legitimate sale. Can you imagine being arrested because a cop tried to sell you a legitimate phone that was owned by the police department and the cop told you it was clean, but you must be a criminal because *obviously* the phone must have been stolen? If that makes you a criminal worth arresting, then everyone would be in jail.

...Think Bait Car. The thief is certainly "ready and willing".

There is a significant difference between a bait car and the reported crackdown on the phone black market. Police don't offer bait cars for sale; they place attractive unsecured vehicles in insecure locations. With the iPhone crackdown, they are explicitly asking you to purchase something illegally. While I share no sympathy with those who purchase stolen goods, I think this does approach the line of unethical behavior (asking someone to commit a crime so you can punish them). I don't think the role of government is to periodically test your morals, but to punish those who do break the law of their own motivation.

The problem I see here is that the police are initiating the interaction and performing actions that may corrupt someone who never would have sought out to buy stolen property on their own. In essence, they are creating criminals out of people who may or may not become criminals.

...

To look at it from the perspective of fake hooker stings, I think it's fine if the John solicits the prostitute, but I think it's wrong if the prostitutes are approaching guys on the street and initiating the interaction.

GorillaPaws already said it.

We don't know what the cops did. Likely they have lawyers who work for the police department and the lawyers wrote a kind of "script" for the cops to use so they could be sure to get a conviction.


So the cops comes in and asks. "I need to sell my phone, know anyone who wants one?" Then merchant says "I can use one". Then maybe the cops tries to let him out of the deal and says. No you don't want this phone it's stolen. You can get into some trouble. --- You see the point is that they have to get him the opportunity but not pressure him and get him an easy way to back out. It is a fine line but I'm SURE some lawyers who know many past court cases have gone wrote a better script than I did.

I think this is a legitimate approach, but my guess is the courts don't force the cops to this standard.

 

[CDCC]

Phone ID

I thought each Phone had a IMEI ID that could be tracked when turned on. They do this in Europe. Makes stealing a cell phone not worth it. I guess they(the Carriers) want to sell more phones in this country?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Mobile_Equipment_Identity

 

[OrangeSVTguy]

Next stop: Craigslist.

 

[GorillaPaws]

We don't know what the cops did. Likely they have lawyers who work for the police department and the lawyers wrote a kind of "script" for the cops to use so they could be sure to get a conviction.


So the cops comes in and asks. "I need to sell my phone, know anyone who wants one?" Then merchant says "I can use one". Then maybe the cops tries to let him out of the deal and says. No you don't want this phone it's stolen. You can get into some trouble. --- You see the point is that they have to get him the opportunity but not pressure him and get him an easy way to back out. It is a fine line but I'm SURE some lawyers who know many past court cases have gone wrote a better script than I did.

First, what I think is wrong/right may not correspond 100% with the established legal standards. I would hope they met with the local DA prior to conducting the sting (not doing so would be very foolish) and have little doubt that they were working from a carefully contrived script. I'm more concerned with the rightness/wrongness of the issue than the technical legality of their tactics. If this behavior doesn't legally rise to the level of entrapment, perhaps the laws should be amended so that these tactics would.

The issue for me is that the police were initiating contact, and if the article is accurate on this point, then that fact alone is sufficient for me to shake my head. I'd have no problem whatsoever if they set themselves up as undercover fences and nabbed people as their agent was approached, but the police actively shopping stolen goods around town is a VERY different kind of activity.

 

[ShiftyPig]

Shame on the NYPD - if you suspect vendors are selling stolen iPhones/iPads, then do some detective work and bust them for selling stolen iPhones/iPads. It shouldn't be that hard. Don't conjure up some crazy entrapment scheme just to hit people with a charge when you are too lazy to get them on the real crime.

 

[Judas1]

I'd like to add to people who are for this type of police behavior to realize the world isn't divided into black and white, good people or bad people. Most people, including cops fall into the grey area. This sting isn't to crack down on phone theft, because it won't even put a dent in it, so stop applauding their effort. There will always be a market for popular goods and there will always be a way to offload hot items. Nice mention of craigslist up there. So this a waste of resource to go after people who are no worst than you, me, or some of your neighbors.

 

[meowr]

So if the cops were selling stolen iPhones, where did the cops steal them from?

Wouldn't the police officers now have to prove that the iPhones that they sold in the sting operations were indeed "stolen", in order to get a conviction?

And if they were in fact "stolen iPhones" (reported stolen by the true owners), why didn't they return them to the rightful owners?

I guessing they can't just sell oregano to a drug dealer, call the oregano marajuana, and have the drug dealer charged with buying/selling marajuana?

 

[alexiarudolf]

Nice Job NYPD, Congrats. The Culprit must be punished.

 

[haruhiko]

Great news.

However, I don't think anybody who wants to sell out their stolen iPhones will actually tell the shop owner the fact that the phone was stolen....

So if the seller hasn't told the shopkeeper about the fact...

can the shop owner be a bona fide purchaser of value without notice?

 

[nwlondonlad]

Man: (calls ATT) I would like to activate a new line on an iPhone that was reported stolen.

Att: no problem sir what type of plan would you like with that sir.

 

[davidgrimm]

This is great news. I wish they'd do this for everyone selling stolen stuff. Instead the police around here are pre-ocupied with drivers going 5 mph over the speed limit to round up people selling stolen goods.

If people would quit buying stolen goods, then criminals would be much less likely to steal it in the first place.

 

[gnasher729]

Seems to me that it's important to consider that this store owner is being approached by someone who is basically announcing that they "stole" something (and therefore may be accustomed to committing violent crimes) In this case, their desire may be to get the guy out of the store as quickly as possible ... in fact, they may actually be fast-thinking and remember their security cameras are running and simply buy the phone to get the guy the hell out of the store and then when the coast is clear, call the police and provide video and the returned merchandise. Not really a smart move, but it would be a matter of panicking not criminal intent.

No thief would be going to a store and say "buy these stolen phones, or I'll shoot you". If the thief had a gun and was willing to use it, he would just say "give me the cash, or I'll shoot you". No point in going to all the effort and steal mobile phones and hand them over. It just doesn't make sense.

And buying stolen goods and then calling the police is a stupid idea, because at the very least you will have to return the goods and then good luck getting your money back from the thief.

Great news.

However, I don't think anybody who wants to sell out their stolen iPhones will actually tell the shop owner the fact that the phone was stolen....

So if the seller hasn't told the shopkeeper about the fact...

can the shop owner be a bona fide purchaser of value without notice?

If you buy stolen goods, the stolen goods never become your legal property, so if you get caught, the best possible outcome is that you have to return the goods to the proper owner without any compensation, and then you can try to sue the thief for the damage to your wallet; good luck with that. Whether you have committed a crime would depend on the exact situation and the exact laws in the place where you are. Normally it will be a crime if you either knew or if you should have known that the goods were likely to be stolen. If I tell you that thirteen people each bought me an iPhone as a birthday present, and I'm offering you to buy twelve of them for $50 each, then you should know that the goods are stolen.

In this case obviously the cops wanted to be able to proof that the buyer knew the goods are stolen, no easier way than to just tell the buyer.

 

[wacky4alanis]

It's a temporary and pointless response to a real problem. These people aren't going to prison. And the real thiefs now know (OK - already knew) NOT to mention that the stuff they are selling was stolen. I agree that the obvious solution is for the police to maintain a list of stolen IMEIs, and for the police to FORCE the carriers to disable those devices or be fined large sums of money. If and when the phone is returned to the rightful owner, then the police simply remove the IMEI from the banned list. Yes it will cost some money to administer such a system, but it will also make our cities safer to walk around in.

This sting might put a small dent in the problem, but obviously cost the taxpayers a ton of money, and is not a long-term solution to the problem.

 

[rcfa]

Grubby Apple greedy?

Since all iPhone activations, iCloud, etc. all go through Apple, why doesn't apple maintain a global database of stolen phones, and block them from access to AppStore, iCloud, etc. and sync that database to the carriers?

They use their control to make money, but not to protect the consumer, because stolen phones mean additional sales, eliminating to a large degree the need for a low-end, low-profit iPhone. The high-end users just buy a new phone again, and the bottom-feeders buy the stolen goods.

Besides that Apple could do something, the sting in NYC is relatively useless: you can still sell these things on eBay, CraigsList or elsewhere to unsuspecting buyers.

So all it does is attract publicity in an election year....

 

[alent1234]

Since all iPhone activations, iCloud, etc. all go through Apple, why doesn't apple maintain a global database of stolen phones, and block them from access to AppStore, iCloud, etc. and sync that database to the carriers?

They use their control to make money, but not to protect the consumer, because stolen phones mean additional sales, eliminating to a large degree the need for a low-end, low-profit iPhone. The high-end users just buy a new phone again, and the bottom-feeders buy the stolen goods.

Besides that Apple could do something, the sting in NYC is relatively useless: you can still sell these things on eBay, CraigsList or elsewhere to unsuspecting buyers.

So all it does is attract publicity in an election year....

you will get a lot of false alarms as scorned spouses call in fake thefts, bad craigslist/ebay sales and whatever. sure you can require police reports but how many people know their serial number and then you have to hire people to read the report and make changes

 

[Wicked1]

Stealing is wrong, but how is this not entrapment.

essentially that was but for some reason they seem to always find away around that law, just like Cops posing as Escorts or other types looking to find people willing to take the bait then they get arrested, it is like a game of fishing. Should be illegal, but who knows what those folks buying the products were doing with them. If it were just an avg Joe, then yes it is against the law, but if they were trying to break a crime ring, some how they get around that law.