Pontiac is dead

[Signal-11]

You are basing your entire logic on your own opinions on looks and not that of consumers. Sales are down for all automakers right now but the ones taking the least of the hit are Honda/Toyota. Volkswagen just surpassed Toyota for selling the most Vehicles.

Believe it or not, up until a few weeks ago, it was Hyundai that had lost the least sales.

 

[RHatton]

The least hit? Toyota just burned through $9.7 billion in Q1 and sales down 42% in April. Honda posted a 25% sales down the least of the others, but still down pretty big. GM had a 33% sales drop in April, Ford 31%, and Chrysler 48%. So Toyota is only upstaged by Chrysler.

Aren't you basing your logic on your opinion? I hardly hear about people talking about the designs of Toyota's and Honda's. Just fuel economy and reliability/quality. That is where the consumers taste is, not in the design.

I think you are missing the point.

PS.I'd buy a Hyundai Genesis

 

[quagmire]

Believe it or not, it was Hyundai taking the smallest hits, not Honda/Toyota.

Ah, your right. Autoblog's by the numbers stink. I was looking under by companies and they only list GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan, Toyota, and BMW.

 

[takao]

The Element is probably the most versatile utility vehicle any automaker has made thus far. Have you ever drove/ridden in one or seen the functionality? The Ridgeline is the same. The S2000 isn't "dead", they are revamping the model with another car in the near future. Since you tried so hard to shut down the other models what about the TL, TSX, MDX, RDX Turbo, Accord, Insight, Fit, New Corolla, and Civic Hybrid/Si. Are those too bland for you as well?

a revamp would mean that they continue selling the old model until a new one launches .. you know like other car makers do it

and your other example "exciting looking cars" make me think you might be the one behind the crime of the new Clio "design"

 

[quagmire]

I think you are missing the point.

PS.I'd buy a Hyundai Genesis

No, we're discussing designs of these vehicles not reliability/quality and fuel economy.

 

[RHatton]

a revamp would mean that they continue selling the old model until a new one launches .. you know like other car makers do it

and your other example "exciting looking cars" make me think you might be the one behind the crime of the new Clio "design"

In this case I was referring to what would be a similar platform of a small roadster with RWD and a small, high revving, low displacement motor. And I hate Clio's.

 

[RHatton]

No, we're discussing designs of these vehicles not reliability/quality and fuel economy.

I'm not trying to start some flame war with you about who's dad would win a fight. I stated that foreign automakers are producing better quality vehicles and that GM needs to pick up the pace. Someone in the thread stated that those models were bland and I disagree.

 

[quagmire]

I'm not trying to start some flame war with you about who's dad would win a fight. I stated that foreign automakers are producing better quality vehicles and that GM needs to pick up the pace. Someone in the thread stated that those models were bland and I disagree.

*sigh*

We were discussing the designs of these vehicles. When discussing the Element and Ridgeline design, you went to their versatility. Ok, like I said they maybe versatile, but they are not design wonders. Then I discussed how Toyota's do not produce any stellar designed vehicles. You go, " But, they are the least hit." I reply saying they are down as much as the Big 3 are and the consumer taste is in quality/reliability. Which then say I am missing the point of when we were in a design debate.

Simply, you're over the place when it comes to talking about the design of these vehicles. While looks are subjective, my point still stands that hardly anyone drools over cars that Toyota and Honda design like people have with American cars in the past, German cars, and the exotics.

And GM has picked up the pace while Toyota at least have fallen in quality.

 

[takao]

Civic SiR :was available in Europe. Reference the Civic VTi and Civic Type R which both featured DOHC 1.6 Liter motors with 160/200 hp @8200 RPM's and a stiffer suspension.
S2000: They only had three different models which all looked similar so what on earth are you talking about. The S2k, CR, and Japanese version were all the same looking car. The only things over the years that changed were the bumpers and motor in 2004. That car holds the highest hp per liter efficiency number to this day with 120 hp per liter. It consistently wins awards and tears up autox events worldwide.
NSX: At least we agree on something
Integra: It was the fastest FWD car in the world until the Mazdaspeed Protege. It consistently won best car 6 years in a row in Car and Driver. I fail to see your logic here. I've owned one for 8 years and its been the best car I've owned thus far.
Accord: Its the Acura TSX in the US and the Honda Accord in Japan. It has a K-series motor so whats not to like. Excitement of a VW design?
Supra: The 2JZ was arguably one of the best motor designs to this day. It can withstand 1000+hp beatings repeatedly and the car itself is a classic. Given the MKIII were rather ugly the MKIV was by far one of the best cars of our day.

stop posting and start reading ...
1. we were talking about design,
2. i explicitly state "some nice performing cars"
3. and you go on rambling about engine and HP here and there
and if you want to talk engines i only have to mention "Diesel" and out of the room the japanese engineers are

 

[RHatton]

*sigh*

We were discussing the designs of these vehicles. When discussing the Element and Ridgeline design, you went to their versatility. Ok, like I said they maybe versatile, but they are not design wonders. Then I discussed how Toyota's do not produce any stellar designed vehicles. You go, " But, they are the least hit." I reply saying they are down as much as the Big 3 are and the consumer taste is in quality/reliability. Which then say I am missing the point of when we were in a design debate.

Simply, you're over the place when it comes to talking about the design of these vehicles. While looks are subjective, my point still stands that hardly anyone drools over cars that Toyota and Honda design like people have with American cars in the past, German cars, and the exotics.

And GM has picked up the pace while Toyota at least have fallen in quality.

Design encompasses the motor, interior, chassis design which leads to quality and reliability hence why I quoted you. I don't understand your definition of design unless you are referring purely to aesthetics.

Takao: Diesel is efficient but produces more emissions and so far with the gas prices all over the place I don't see the market for it growing. Its good for torque and efficiency but not for a sports car.

 

[quagmire]

Design encompasses the motor, interior, chassis design which leads to quality and reliability hence why I quoted you. I don't understand your definition of design unless you are referring purely to aesthetics.

Yes, I was talking about the exterior of the vehicles. I thought I was pretty clear on what I was talking about when I was stating the design of the vehicles.

BTW, what you are talking about is mostly the engineering of the vehicles.

 

[RHatton]

Yes, I was talking about the exterior of the vehicles. I thought I was pretty clear on what I was talking about when I was stating the design of the vehicles.

BTW, what you are talking about is mostly the engineering of the vehicles.

This is true. I am mainly referring to engineering rather than aesthetics so I apologize for the confusion.

PS. I see you are a bimmer driver. I've had the privelege of driving quite a few of their newer vehicles and I must say they are hands down the best driving experience. The Z4M was great as well as the new M3.

 

[RGunner]

Diesels....

Design encompasses the motor, interior, chassis design which leads to quality and reliability hence why I quoted you. I don't understand your definition of design unless you are referring purely to aesthetics.

Takao: Diesel is efficient but produces more emissions and so far with the gas prices all over the place I don't see the market for it growing. Its good for torque and efficiency but not for a sports car.

I disagree with your statement about Diesels. Go look up what engine technology has won the LeMans series the past 7 years. Diesels can be made into sports cars, it just isnt happening... (yet)

 

[ZeroCorpse]

My first car was a Pontiac.

Granted, it was a beat-up, used, old 1979 giant boat of a car, but I was safe in it, anyway.

Still, I won't miss them. Bring on the new technologies.

 

[Signal-11]

I disagree with your statement about Diesels. Go look up what engine technology has won the LeMans series the past 7 years. Diesels can be made into sports cars, it just isnt happening... (yet)

Also, more or less emissions depends on what you consider a more environmentally degrading - SOx, NOx or PM.

 

[gkarris]

Their cars - constantly... (used to own one...)

Only a matter of time before the division as a whole...

 

[SactoGuy18]

Also, more or less emissions depends on what you consider a more environmentally degrading - SOx, NOx or PM.

Interestingly, work done by Ricardo UK recently has made it possible for turbodiesel engines to even meet the world's toughest emission standard: CARB's Super Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle (SULEV). We could get ultra-clean turbodiesel cars within the next two years.

 

[themoonisdown09]

No big loss for me, I never did like Pontiac.

 

[iJohnHenry]

My first car was a Pontiac.

Mine too, a '54 27 series from the States. Straight 8. Fun car. Couldn't kill it with a gun.

 

[iCantwait]

Well you can still buy the G8 in Australia, as after all, IT'S A BLOODY HOLDEN!!!!!!!!!

to y'all cretins out there, the Holden commodore was sold as a pontiac in the US, just goes to show that Aussies rule!

 

[DoFoT9]

Well you can still buy the G8 in Australia, as after all, IT'S A BLOODY HOLDEN!!!!!!!!!

to y'all cretins out there, the Holden commodore was sold as a pontiac in the US, just goes to show that Aussies rule!

i not really worried either, because holden still makes the same car body its hot as hell

 

[gaming4fun]

In my small experience with Pontiac, they were all right. Better than my Ford Tempo. LOL