Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[EvilEvil]

The bigger Apple gets, the harder they fall.

 

[geromi912]

Blame Intel

It's Intel that's the weak link. No one thought they could screw up this bad, so it caught Apple off guard, even though they have contingencies, and are fairly ahead of the curve. This has happen a bunch of times over the years.

Of course i'm guessing here, trying to make it sound all officious. It's a RUMOR forum after all

Oh is that why LITERALLY NONE other PC vendors have this problem?

 

[haydn!]

Can't see any problem personally. For what needs you need new mac every year? With new design. You need design or performance? The difference in performance with each new intel chipsets are marginal, so...

My Imac 27" 2011 still works perfectly except dust inside matrix. Appeared couple of years ago. Will buy awesome Imac 27" 5K 2017 with 512 SSD instead. Which I believe would serve for another good 5-6 years.

Because it well built and all teething problems has been addressed. That's the only things that matters.

Yes and no. Of course most people don't buy a Mac every year, but nobody wanting to buy a Mac today wants to pay full whack for hardware launched at least 12 months ago, in other cases 3, 4 or 5 years ago either.

Your average customer probably replaces their computer every 5 or so years. That means people who bought the Mac Pro and Mac Mini five years ago and need a new one now, are only being offered the same tech they already bought, still at the same price (or higher outside of the US!).

 

[geromi912]

Can't see any problem personally. For what needs you need new mac every year? With new design. You need design or performance? The difference in performance with each new intel chipsets are marginal, so...

My Imac 27" 2011 still works perfectly except dust inside matrix. Appeared couple of years ago. Will buy awesome Imac 27" 5K 2017 with 512 SSD instead. Which I believe would serve for another good 5-6 years.

Because it well built and all teething problems has been addressed. That's the only things that matters.

CPUs aren't, but GPUs are still getting big gains every generation. Well, at least for Nvidia. a GTX 1080Ti is a good 2-3 times faster than 780Ti, 3 years apart.

 

[Roadstar]

Are the people who complain about the lack of hardware updates to the Mac computer lineup actually finding the existing hardware insufficient, underpowered and inconvenient... or is it just that they want something new to satisfy their desire for shiny new things?

Well, for me the case is that I’d need to upgrade to a new Mac as my 2011 mini is starting to fall apart and it’s not going to get Mojave and because of that it’s not guaranteed to get all security updates. However, right now there’s nothing I can buy without hating myself. The current mini is a badly outdated joke, the iMac doesn’t work for me as I currently can’t fit multiple displays on my desk and I use my current one also for my PS4 and my work laptop. The current MBP/MacBook generations have unreliable keyboards that I’m not going to spend Apple amounts on. That leaves the MacBook Air, but that one’s lacking a retina display and I’d also like to future-proof with at least 1 USB-C port. So for me it’s a case of a valid upgrade need, but Apple’s not selling a viable machine.

 

[curtvaughan]

Could not agree more. Apple's leadership team should be ashamed of this situation. When your own loyal developers are calling you out, and the stats are this bad (has there ever been a less active hardware release schedule in the entire history of computing? Serious question.) it's nothing short of professional negligence. Apple, most of us rely on the Mac for our work, and I know it's an enormous surprise but you're letting us down, badly.
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Simply not true... only a tiny, tiny percentage of productive work gets done on mobile devices (I don't mean email and comms) and work is a pretty big part of life

Indeed - visit large university campuses and you'll notice two things: ubiquitous use of mobile phones, of course, but laptops remain the overwhelming computing tool of choice for students for research, writing of papers, and class assignments. Desktops remain the primary production tools for faculty and staff. This is also the case in the corporate world. Home is where desktops are declining in use, as mobile devices (phones, tablets, large display devices) are more attractive for entertainment and content delivery. Folks who work from home continue to prefer desktops and laptops to get work done. Keyboards still remain a staple for production, and virtual/bluetooth offerings for mobile devices remain inferior to laptop/desktop keyboards. Storage also tends to lag.

 

[oldMacGenius]

Went from being an Apple Employee and lifelong Mac user to switching fully to the Windows ecosystem over the last few years; including being a paying Microsoft/O365 user.


Luckily Microsoft actually believes in choice, as they make all of their ecosystem available for all platforms - Office, OneDrive, Cortana, OneNote, and Bing. I can use any device I desire for my daily driver, which currently is an HP Spectre X360.


Steve Jobs / Alan Kay was right. People who are really are into software, should make their own hardware. Microsoft is doing that with Surface and other products, providing inspiration for everyone else. This indeed is Microsoft’s goal.


This is why you see the PC industry moving in the right direction, with Apple stagnating. Having an ecosystem of cooperative design lifts all boats.

 

[DesertNomad]

You forgot: out of router business!

Indeed. I still use an Airport and AirportExpress.

I've spent over $100K on Macs over the last 30 years and I'd like to keep buying a new machine each year for my software business, but there is nothing to buy. I have a 2014 MacBook Pro and 2012 MacBook Air on my desk (thankfully the Air can run 10.14).

I'm glad I was around for the early days of Mac and saw it through the glory days... and the tough times when Apple was one step away form disappearing forever. Today's Apple sells emojis and I'm just not in the market for those.

 

[Roadstar]

I disagree about touchbar. Hard coded function keys are the most useless thing we have going now. This isn't 1980s IBM PCs here, the function key is long dead. At least with the touchbar, you can make that line of keys somewhat more useful again, even of its underutilized.

I could live with the function keys being replaced by GimmickBar, but Esc needs to be hardware and in a fixed position.

 

[tn-xyz]

becasue no body wants to buy 2yr old hardware, maybe that.

so last years refresh is already too old for you?

 

[odvan]

Mac today wants to pay full whack for hardware launched at least 12 months ago, in other cases 3, 4 or 5 years ago either.

I agree on that. Apple could give a discount for a year (or more) old models, but it happens anyway when new macs appears. So it's not really a problem.

I suppose it's the same for other big players (Dell, Asus, etc). Correct me if I wrong.

I saw plenty of video from bloggers suggesting not to switch from Imac 2015 to Imac 2017. Because difference in performance not so big.

And a year old hardware doesn't mean it was manufactured year ago and spent this year in store. It's brand new and fresh from the factory.

Besides macs sales are steady, so once again I don't get why people complain. You won't change anything. Except lower your mood.

 

[drewsof07]

You can't blame Intel for Macs not having 8th generation Core chips which PCs have had for a long time, allowing smaller form factors than the 13" MBP to have 4-core processing power.

Apple used to get first dibs on Intel's new chips.

Probably went on the Intel naughty list when the ARM transition rumors came out

 

[lewdvig]

Went from being an Apple Employee and lifelong Mac user to switching fully to the Windows ecosystem over the last few years; including being a paying Microsoft/O365 user.


Luckily Microsoft actually believes in choice, as they make all of their ecosystem available for all platforms - Office, OneDrive, Cortana, OneNote, and Bing. I can use any device I desire for my daily driver, which currently is an HP Spectre X360.


Steve Jobs / Alan Kay was right. People who are really are into software, should make their own hardware. Microsoft is doing that with Surface and other products, providing inspiration for everyone else. This indeed is Microsoft’s goal.


This is why you see the PC industry moving in the right direction, with Apple stagnating. Having an ecosystem of cooperative design lifts all boats.

Yeah, I switch PCs constantly. Right now I have the x360 Spectre 2018. It's excellent.

Compared to the 2017 MBP 13 TB i just got rid of;

1. touchscreen versus touchbar; x360 wins
2. 2 in 1 form factor versus laptop; x360 wins
3. good keyboard vs new apple keyboard; x360 wins (although the backlighting is better on Mac)
4. ports; MBP wins
5. security; x360 wins (ir facial, fingerprint and better encryption for win pro)
6. performance; x360 wins (15 watt 8th gen gen quad)
7. expansion; x360 wins (abundant SSD upgrade options)
8. OS; even, both are excellent
9. value; x360 wins (roughly 60% cost of comparable MBP with inferior specs)

Having said that, a price break and 2018 components inside the nonTB MBP would switch me back.

Same things with phones. I got tired of lightning to 3.5 and apple lightning pods wearing out (3 pairs in 6 months) and switched to much cheaper Samsung phones with 3.5 jacks.

Luckily Apple gear holds its value. But I would much rather upgrade from old apple stuff to new apple stuff.

 

[maflynn]

Blame Intel

Razer, Dell, MSI, ASUS, etc etc all have coffee lake processors but when it comes to Apple, its Intel's fault they Apple is a generation behind?
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Are the desktops even any better on terms of ability to upgrade?

Technically the iMac Pro is upgradable but its not easy. The regular iMac is not upgradable, the Mac mini is not that upgradeable and while the Mac Pro is sort of upgradable its not due to lack of components.

 

[Flight Plan]

That will not happen. AMD is not crap, nVidia has no offering providing the same or better performance with the same TDP. Or at least did not last year. nVidia's policy is awful. I

TDP be damned.

AMD GPUs don't do CUDA. That's a FAIL for anybody who uses a CUDA based graphic rendering engine. Are you saying it's permissible for Apple to make creative computers that aren't flexible enough to create?
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Just what the site needs. More complaining about the Mac. Sigh.

Oh pu-lease!
Do you think we should be quiet? The state of Mac hardware is abominable and unacceptable!

 

[Manzanito]

The Mac Pro should really be Don't Buy as well. Just because it got a price cut doesn't make it any more attractive for 4.5 year old hardware that had an arguably flawed design in the first place. The fact it's handily beaten by an all-in-one only serves to reinforce this point. MacRumors, please update!

I wonder what the reaction would've been at the Mac Pro's unveiling if Phil Schiller had said they won't be updating it for more than 5 years.

I really wish macrumors stated the actual age of the ancient “new” mac pro.

When Schiller said it was the mac pro for the next ten years he really meant it lol.

 

[srminton]

While I agree that Apple could make some improvements with the Mac (especially the neglected Mac mini), the current hysteria is, well, hysterical. It's been more than 1 year since they updated MacBook Pros! And 2 years since a major redesign! My God, how often do you need to buy a new MacBook Pro? These are expensive computers. If you're demanding a new one every 12 months (or even every 2 years), maybe you should consider donating some of that spare cash to charity instead because you really do not need a new $2000 computer every 12 months. I'll be that less than 5% of the people whining are really pushing the limits of what Macs could do 5 years ago, let alone a year ago. Like the guys who cry about not having 32GB RAM in the laptop they use for Microsoft Office, YouTube and Facebook. Seriously, it's become a badge of Mac manliness to gripe about 'the state of the Mac'. Give me a break. You want a toy where you can touch the screen and fold it into a tent shape to watch YouTube videos, get a Windows PC or a Chromebook. You want to do some work (you know, where the work is the thing, not the things you use to do the work), then stop complaining and do some work on your expensive computers. If you don't know how, more fool you.

 

[Totally]

i understand the criticism regarding the mac mini and mac pro, but why do we need a fresh lineup each year?

Do you want to pay full retail top of the line prices for 1 year old hardware that was virtually a a year behind already when it was released? That's paying full retail for 2 year old technology. Most people would switch to windows.

 

[borntrouble]

Define a majority of Mac Users. Would you classify the majority as power or as everyday users. The latter comes to mind, including education. The current line up more then meets their needs under the hood. The Mac OS software seperates the Mac from others like Windows OS. The need to refresh the hardware, not a differenator as it would be with different Windows systems. My 3 plus year old Mac Book doing just great, more speed then I need. Not everyone needs a heavy lifting system.

You dont make money with "what people need" nowadays. You make money with "what people want". And the people want new Mac Hardware. Easy as that.

 

[haydn!]

I agree on that. Apple could give a discount for a year (or more) old models, but it happens anyway when new macs appears. So it's not really a problem.

You don't see a problem in Apple charging the exact same price for something in 2018 that they did in 2013? The cost of specific components inside these machines will be dramatically cheaper today compared to five years ago and R&D costs would have recuperated long ago. Apple should have already discounted the price of several of its Mac's and should not be just waiting for a newer model to come out to justify it. They're ripping people off.

I suppose it's the same for other big players (Dell, Asus, etc). Correct me if I wrong

Yes, you're wrong. Dell for example have a considerably larger line of hardware, that they manage to update considerably more frequently. They also discount their hardware several months after release, and several months before the next revisions hit the market. The same is most likely true to Asus, HP, Lenovo... and every other hardware manufacturer. Even Microsoft have a better hardware track record than Apple of late!

I saw plenty of video from bloggers suggesting not to switch from Imac 2015 to Imac 2017. Because difference in performance not so big.

I'd agree that upgrading only 2 years later is a waste of cash unless your working on software this is constantly pushing the boundaries of processing power. However, we're not talking 2 years with the Mac Mini or Mac Pro. We're talking 5-6.

And a year old hardware doesn't mean it was manufactured year ago and spent this year in store. It's brand new and fresh from the factory.

Obviously. But do you think Apple is paying the same price for the components it's sticking in those machines today that it was 5-6 years ago? Do not think better quality/spec components are not available today compared to 5-6 years ago?

 

[iwataasks]

The bigger Apple gets, the harder they fall.

© Steve Jobs

 

[lewdvig]

Much smaller companies than Apple do a great job of designing new HW and keep them up to date. It boggles the mind that they put so much effort into materials and design but can't be bother to upgrade chips (in some cases pin compatible!).

We know from the HW hacking scene that it is pretty easy to get a firmware on Nvidia cards that works well on CMPs. Hobbyists can figure it out, but not Apple?!

Apple should bring back that CMP design, a system which still draws gasps of astonishment when I open one up for HW geeks due to the impressive engineering, and stop being so petty regard videocards.

If Apple go all in on ARM I am not sure the non Apple pro apps will follow. So in that case it won't matter. Maybe that is why they are not bothering. Or do they just buy up Adobe and Autodesk with some sofa money and port everything to ARM?

ARM for consumers will be fine, but I'm not sure about that platform competing with 16-32 core desktop systems of the coming years. But the single core performance of the latest Apple chips is impressive.

Maybe there is a method to the madness, but like others I am not seeing it.

 

[Santabean2000]

Can't believe the Mac has been so badly neglected.

Can only think that they're madly working on their new iOS Pro line of computers.

Horrible time to be in the market for a new machine.

 

[maflynn]

Can't believe the Mac has been so badly neglected.

Apple is in crisis mode now - They invited a bunch of journalists in last year (or the year before I forget), to promote the notion that the Mac is important. The execs have said numerous times its important, but other then then iMac Pro, we've not seen much in terms of hardware. Apple's competitors have had no issues in rolling out Coffee Lake based computers.

 

[groadyho]

While I agree that Apple could make some improvements with the Mac (especially the neglected Mac mini), the current hysteria is, well, hysterical. It's been more than 1 year since they updated MacBook Pros! And 2 years since a major redesign! My God, how often do you need to buy a new MacBook Pro? These are expensive computers. If you're demanding a new one every 12 months (or even every 2 years), maybe you should consider donating some of that spare cash to charity instead because you really do not need a new $2000 computer every 12 months. I'll be that less than 5% of the people whining are really pushing the limits of what Macs could do 5 years ago, let alone a year ago. Like the guys who cry about not having 32GB RAM in the laptop they use for Microsoft Office, YouTube and Facebook. Seriously, it's become a badge of Mac manliness to gripe about 'the state of the Mac'. Give me a break. You want a toy where you can touch the screen and fold it into a tent shape to watch YouTube videos, get a Windows PC or a Chromebook. You want to do some work (you know, where the work is the thing, not the things you use to do the work), then stop complaining and do some work on your expensive computers. If you don't know how, more fool you.

Exactly. You want to do real work use a PC. There is reason PC owns business because you can use it for real work and fun. 8.9% market share for businesses is dismal.