Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[R3k]

I’d quite happily cruise along with my 2013 Mac Pro for the next couple of years, it’s still a beast for audio production....if it wasn’t crashing randomly due to GPU problems that lots of us are having and Apple won’t acknowledge.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-late-2013-gpu-driver-issues.1860297/

It’s a different angle I guess. I feel their products have a longevity- this thing is great even after 5 years. I doubt the iMac Pro would feel like much of a difference performance wise for the work I do, and I do push the system. However, Apple’s lack of focus on their desktop models is in line with a fix not being a priority for them.

 

[pipis2010]

Cook seems to forget that most iPhone users are also Mac users. Without the Mac there’s less incentive to buy an iPhone.

Hmmm no. People who have iphones/ipads, don’t need macs anymore...

 

[Lone Deranger]

So stating facts is blindly defending Apple now?

The key reason for that is that the iMac Pro was always intended to be the spiritual successor to the Mac Pro.

That is not a fact. That is mere speculation. No more or less accurate than anybody else's head scratching at Apple's bizarre behavior towards the Mac and power users.

 

[grandM]

FWIW, I have written an email to Tim Cook (as I did once to Steve Jobs).

did steve or tim reply?

 

[pipis2010]

Are the people who complain about the lack of hardware updates to the Mac computer lineup actually finding the existing hardware insufficient, underpowered and inconvenient... or is it just that they want something new to satisfy their desire for shiny new things?

I enjoy shiny new stuff, BTW. Much more than I should, in fact. The thing is, I also realize that hardware is just that: a conglomeration of metal and plastic. Getting new metal and plastic in different packages and setups every year is cool... but in the end, it’s what you do with it, the software and the applications that makes the hardware meaningful.

My beef with the technology industry (and Apple is a prime example) is that the leaps in software development often outstrip the potential of the hardware... so the vicious cycle of needing to upgrade your hardware in order to support the software never ends. At some point in time, users need to dig in and say, “No further!”, and stop the cycle in order to make the best use of what they have. Apple could focus on reliability rather than added functionality. They could focus on making software that runs better on older hardware. Unfortunately, reliability updates and compatibility updates do not sell machines, but rather encourage users to keep what they have. The cycle is painfully evident on Apple’s phone lineup, but extends to the iPads now as well. First-gen iPads released in 2010 run much slower on new software. Apple does not seem to be optimizing iOS so that users of older hardware can take advantage of the latest security updates and functionality. To be fair, making iOS 12 run well on an iPad from eight years ago might not be a practical option. Still, we are generating a lot of waste in terms of manufacturing materials in particular just to feed the endless hardware-software cycle.

All this complaining, and I still use Apple products, and I still choose to upgrade my software up to the point where the device practically becomes a brick for slowness. I envy those people who still feel happy with their old machines and find them eminently useful.

You are forgetting that the whole computer industry was built on the fact that each quarter/year something FASTER arrives, something BETTER is introduced, something NEW is produced, etc etc, so we have been trained all these years to expect such advancements/innovations, even if they offer marginal differences.

Heck, the whole world is based on this concept, in every single industry and market out there. I think the main concern of most people here, including myself, is that Apple should refresh their mac lineup more often, or should start heavily discounting for the older models they keep on selling or just discontinue them.

The reason this doesn’t happen, is because people are still willing to pay high prices for 2-3-4 year old computers (both pro and consumers it seems). Stop buying and then you’ll see how Apple will introduce updated models.

But, to me, Apple should refresh their models more often, yearly or every 2 years - it makes sense, because they are supposed to be a technological company still yes? And not a fashion/lifestyle brand that they are so eager to evolve into...

 

[grandM]

It's hard to argue one of the richest companies in the world cannot hire more engineers.

I think the story has two sides to it. When I used IBM clones I bought a new pc like every 2-3 years. My mac mini has now been in the run for like 5 years. So yes it proved to be better value. At the moment I bought it I believed I was being had. Old tech at premium prices.

I would not go back to windows as I've used the OS for about 21 years. Reinstalling, crashing, virusses, loss of data you name it. MacOs has proven to be more reliable. Though recently freezing occurs. If however I noticed the crowd going wild because of dark mode I thought to myself "wow, in 1998 you could customise like everything on windows 98".

 

[pipis2010]

I agree but people want great specs because it makes them feel good. Intel wouldn’t be selling Extreme Edition CPUs which are a terrible value if no one bought them. The smart money is buying used Xeons once servers dump them.

A big part of Apple’s problem is using the same hardware as their competitors. This wasn’t an issue in the PowerPC era. They should go to ARM as soon as it’s viable. No one attacks iOS devices based on performance. It’s only because of the walled garden limiting what you can do.

The same walled garden that Android provides and Amazon and most recently Windows as well...

 

[alien3dx]

It's hard to argue one of the richest companies in the world cannot hire more engineers.

I think the story has two sides to it. When I used IBM clones I bought a new pc like every 2-3 years. My mac mini has now been in the run for like 5 years. So yes it proved to be better value. At the moment I bought it I believed I was being had. Old tech at premium prices.

I would not go back to windows as I've used the OS for about 21 years. Reinstalling, crashing, virusses, loss of data you name it. MacOs has proven to be more reliable. Though recently freezing occurs. If however I noticed the crowd going wild because of dark mode I thought to myself "wow, in 1998 you could customise like everything on windows 98".

in big company it is not about engineer o heart. NT OS /linux are pretty stable, remove the scripting future, good to go.

 

[pipis2010]

Complete agree.

My iMac is now 11 years old and there is nothing to replace it with. Well there is, should I be inclined to spend in excess of £2000. But why would I do that when this iMac cost me £1000 in 2007? One of the unwritten agreements was costs remained similar over time.

Can’t help but think the decision to stop users upgrading is now coming home to roost for Apple. Short term boost to the bottom line but long term it makes people weary.

Buy an iMac now and I have to get it maxed out and pay the Apple tax up front. There is no room for it to grow with me; would we be having half these conversations if users could bump their RAM for a few years usage, like in the old days? I honestly think not.

And the problem with deciding to max it out is the buying decision stops being mine alone. My wife has to be involved and then it becomes a discussion. And discussions are often adjourned until anouther day. In my case, I’ve been waiting for a compelling iMac release for FOUR YEARS.

And it’s time to retire mine. Spinning beach balls now more and more common so with regret I’ve started looking to move back to Windows, and started the groundwork to migrate our phones and other devices.

It was said earlier; but Apple dumped me, not the other way around.

Sorry but I don’t understand: just because you are migrating to Windows, why do you have to change your phones also? Icloud still works in all platforms...or am I missing something? I have an iphone and ipad and am using a windows computer for so many years without any issues
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But even the slightest amount of common sense tells me this does not scale, otherwise we’d see way more Mac sales.

I have both iphone and ipad and use windows computer, no issues at all.

 

[Coconutcreampie]

To put this first world "problem" back into its proper perspective, take a few minutes time out to consider that THIS is the country where most of these complainers hail from - the LOUD, BRASH, "entitled" portion of the population of Ameria... and these videos just about sum that up:

Find another way to do your work, because complaining not only doesn't earn you money, it COSTS YOU TIME.

I don't know about you but as a person that LIVES IN the "first world," I don't weigh and conduct my life based on what the second and third world is like.

Oh, and work on overcoming your anti-Americanism; you'll be happier.

 

[richinaus]

Apple didn’t drop computer from their name until 2007.

And this is really when it all changed.

We are not privy to internal decision making, but I bet they discussed the long term winding down of pc’s for consumers and a shift to phones / tablets etc.

I would say about 20 - 30% of my professional work has to be done on a pc. The remainder could be done on an iPad Pro. That percentage will no doubt drop over the next 5 years down to just rendering only, simply due to the need of multi core powerful cpu,s. But I can also render via the cloud so really that becomes obsolete too.

Certainly by 2025 I have no expectations of using a desktop or laptop in their current formats.

Apple are 100% in the right direction, I just think users here don’t want to accept this, but also agree it would be nice if Apple did continue the upgrades until this transformation arrives. The ‘truck’ will remain but I bet Apple won’t make one (jobs never said they would, just that they would exist’.

Apple computers is dead. Apple consumer design company is alive and kicking.

 

[netwalker]

The reason this doesn’t happen, is because people are still willing to pay high prices for 2-3-4 year old computers (both pro and consumers it seems). Stop buying and then you’ll see how Apple will introduce updated models.

Since Apple has the monopoly on macOS hardware, buying whatever they offer for the price they want or stop buying until our old machines fall apart are our only options unless we are willing to switch systems (and that comes with additional costs for new software and external hardware).

 

[fairuz]

I’d quite happily cruise along with my 2013 Mac Pro for the next couple of years, it’s still a beast for audio production....if it wasn’t crashing randomly due to GPU problems that lots of us are having and Apple won’t acknowledge.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mac-pro-late-2013-gpu-driver-issues.1860297/

It’s a different angle I guess. I feel their products have a longevity- this thing is great even after 5 years. I doubt the iMac Pro would feel like much of a difference performance wise for the work I do, and I do push the system. However, Apple’s lack of focus on their desktop models is in line with a fix not being a priority for them.

Wait, that GPU problem makes it sound unusable. I'd be furious if my new pro machine were doing that.

 

[0388631]

That is nowhere close to being true. Most Mac users have iPhones, but NOT the reverse.

True. I'm not sure what that other user was thinking. The iPhone and iPod were and still are popular fashion items that work and work well.

 

[fairuz]

I think we all get into the trap where you think you need a quad core and 16GB to check email and browse the internet.

You need it to compile Swift code or use stupid Google Hangouts. The two things my MBP really struggles with.
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The smart money is buying used Xeons once servers dump them.

Server RAM too. Makes for cheaply upgradable Mac Pros.

 

[Chazz08]

I think the MacRumors buyer's guide speaks for itself. Any average person clicking through that guide would assume that Apple has abandoned computer development. Heck, I as a tech geek think they've abandoned computer development. We're all sitting here waiting for a speed bump. Most would expect more after more than a year.

I actually ended up selling my iMac and building my own PC because they haven't had any updates in forever. Nothing meaningful, anyway.

 

[tex210]

Considering the amount of computers (including the mid 2011 mini I also have) they’re abandoning with the Mojave release, that’s definitely not the case as the only macOS release where you can expect to have all relevant security issues fixed is the latest one.

I thought security updates continue for at least a year?
Edit- p.s. I am the problem. Apple TV 3.... my internet access is 3mbs ($20) so everything is in standard definition. I’m using an iPad mini 4 like I never thought I would(Best Buy $100 off), love my iPhone se on it’s $15 plan, and run a Mac mini 2010 that I bought used when it was about a year or two old (living room computer hooked up to tv for communal access). I’ll check back in a year hardware wise and decide then.

 

[Bacillus]

I'm SO GLAD I switched to a windows PC for my main work computer. - now I can get the machine exactly with the internals I need...I feel I have not lost a single thing by switching...Today mac is ONLY phones, and ipads and computers for light usage - nothing for demanding work on a computer. iMac Pro is a bad investment as a work computer, particularly because of the horrible Apple repair abilities if something goes wrong and the fact that its all-in-one - and that's the ONLY serious powerhouse apple has to offer - THe Mac Pro is just a joke and embarrassment, it should have been removed from their lineup. I hope nobody is stupid enough to buy that today... And don't get me started on the badly designed MabBook pro where tiny keyboard travel is more important than convenience and durability, the idiotic useless touch bar and USB-C only (dongle hell) for an extremely high price tag with low performance....Apple is not what is was for serious work, they were slow before, but at least something happened....now it's just a sad place to be for anyone that needs a proper work computer. Switching to windows 2 years ago and building my own machine was the best decision I have ever made. and I have upgraded it with more ram and storage a few times all ready, that's the beauty of it. The machine I have today would cost $15.000 minimum with apples tax, and you wouldn't even be able to get anything near most of the stuff I have in apples current state. I feel sorry for those who aren't able to see past Apple and pick what you need based on what is offered across brands and what would be best for what you do for a living.

Considering this, it is time to roast the

one of Tim Cook most ignorant statement:
"Why would you buy a PC anymore?"

Millions of people who use a Mac for a living,
need BIG SCREEN, POWERFUL and EXPANDABLE computers

People who are the go or all they do is read news/weather and take picts all day,
can use an iPhone/iPad.

I have a 43" LG 43UD79-B a spectacular piece of tech that only cost $600
I put it next to the iMac 27" and the iMac looks like a laptop.
furthermore iMac screens besides being MIRRORS have a nasty yellow hue
that will make your eyes hurt after just 30 minutes
with the LG 43' I can stay 12 hours straight and it's all fine.

to run a tech company you need someone who adores technology,
uses it and understands it.

none of these kind of people are currently running Apple

For God’s sake, let someone like Michael Dell run the Mac division as a seperate company (and save it from the Apple Board morons that killed Steve’s heritage)

 

[nfl46]

Wow. This topic has nearly 1,000 comments. Lol. I guess it’s safe to say a lot of people are upset. Righteous so, though. It’s like Apple forgot about the Mac line.

 

[Abazigal]

I think the MacRumors buyer's guide speaks for itself. Any average person clicking through that guide would assume that Apple has abandoned computer development. Heck, I as a tech geek think they've abandoned computer development. We're all sitting here waiting for a speed bump. Most would expect more after more than a year.

The average Mac user doesn’t know or care about the MacRumors upgrade chart for Mac hardware. If the consumer needed a new Mac right now, she would not consult Rogue Amoeba first. She’d just go buy one.

 

[MandiMac]

I, for one, trust Apple. Let‘s wait until the end of 2018 and then re-investigate this thread - lots of hats will be eaten

In reality, the normal consumer or even prosumer (that’s where the money’s at) will gladly update a computer from 2012 or 2014 to the items we can have now. What we’re discussing here is all because all of us know that there are new processors out. But aside that? iMacs are a great value for desktops, for instance. It has been said time and again that Apple updates the line-up every year. For pros we have the (stop-gap?) iMac Pro, and Macs usually get their love in October.

So before we all get on the „Apple is doomed!!1“ train that is normally reserved for our much beloved Analyst friends, let‘s wait for winter 2018 and then the tables will have changed one way or another.

 

[oldMacGenius]

I also use a Windows Phone for everything not iMessage; don’t tell anyone

(I don’t use a single app that’s not also available on web.)

Yeah, I switch PCs constantly. Right now I have the x360 Spectre 2018. It's excellent.

Compared to the 2017 MBP 13 TB i just got rid of;

1. touchscreen versus touchbar; x360 wins
2. 2 in 1 form factor versus laptop; x360 wins
3. good keyboard vs new apple keyboard; x360 wins (although the backlighting is better on Mac)
4. ports; MBP wins
5. security; x360 wins (ir facial, fingerprint and better encryption for win pro)
6. performance; x360 wins (15 watt 8th gen gen quad)
7. expansion; x360 wins (abundant SSD upgrade options)
8. OS; even, both are excellent
9. value; x360 wins (roughly 60% cost of comparable MBP with inferior specs)

Having said that, a price break and 2018 components inside the nonTB MBP would switch me back.

Same things with phones. I got tired of lightning to 3.5 and apple lightning pods wearing out (3 pairs in 6 months) and switched to much cheaper Samsung phones with 3.5 jacks.

Luckily Apple gear holds its value. But I would much rather upgrade from old apple stuff to new apple stuff.

 

[mscice]

Apple needs to stop spending their resources on self driving cars and stick to Technology in IT sector.

 

[fairuz]

Many, if you can't use THAT old chasis without redesigning cooling system because you have designed it for less heat than the new generation generates.

I would think and hope the new gen is generating less heat, at least in the laptops.

 

[Azmazz]

I just had to pay $700 for a new keyboard , just because the butterfly keys were sticking . Unbelievable , first time in 20 years that’s I’m considering dumping Apple hardware