Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[alien3dx]

I hope all those computers where Windows Updates are purposefully disabled are kept disconnected from the Internet. However, in that case such disabling wouldn't be necessary in the first place and the thought of the whole scenario makes me sad.

Old times , patch update by service pack and you can choose.But p2p update just upon you travel and open your wifi using your phone..is nut.. Data un-cheap in certain country.

Nowdays i do annoy with those update,at least osx i can ignore it.. everyday

 

[Feenician]

Absolutely I agree that financially Apple is doing great, but I remember being there for Apple when they where struggling to get to 10% U.S. market share.

First, thanks for the civilized and focused discussion. It seems to be thin on the ground here these days. I just followed you because I think you might have something interesting to say, whether or not I personally agree with it.

I started what was going to be a long reply but I’m just too tired to complete the thought. In the end I realized it amounts to “you can fool some of the people, some of the time but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time”. Apple have surely made many a misstep(2016 and to a lesser extent 2017 mbp keyboard, among others), and the odd outright failure(hello, trashcan thermals), along the way but the persistent notion here that they’re totally lost just does not match up with reality.Counterpoint: I wouldn’t spend your money to buy me a ‘16 mbp, never mind my own.

 

[navaira]

I really want a rMB with updated keyboard (I gather the current Magic Keyboard works as it should), or that upcoming Air with retina screen. This is my full list of needs and demands. Nothing to do with Intel. Just give me a computer I can travel with without a can of air, and without anxiety. And while I don't use an iPhone, I fail to understand how the idea of selling phones which can't be connected to the latest laptops without buying an extra dongle seems good to anyone. Again, nothing to do with Intel.

Other than keyboard, the retina Macbook is my favourite computer ever. Still don't see any other PC maker coming up with a better solution. But 2.5 (or so) years after I built it my Hackintosh remains faster in single core benchmarks than the base Mac Pro, and it cost half of the price. I get more kernel panics and software problems on actual Macs (this household is full of Macs...) than on the Hack.

I think this thread is full of people who are waving money at Apple *cue that 'shut up and take my money' meme*, and Apple is like 'dddddd here are your new watch bands and animojis'.

 

[throAU]

And while I don't use an iPhone, I fail to understand how the idea of selling phones which can't be connected to the latest laptops without buying an extra dongle seems good to anyone.

Whilst i 100% agree with the rest of your post, USB-C to lightning cables are cheap. Alternatively, just use wireless.

I use wireless between phone and mac unless i'm running personal hotspot, and that's mostly to charge the phone. I could just as easily plug it into the wall for that.

 

[alien3dx]

b

I really want a rMB with updated keyboard (I gather the current Magic Keyboard works as it should), or that upcoming Air with retina screen. This is my full list of needs and demands. Nothing to do with Intel. Just give me a computer I can travel with without a can of air, and without anxiety. And while I don't use an iPhone, I fail to understand how the idea of selling phones which can't be connected to the latest laptops without buying an extra dongle seems good to anyone. Again, nothing to do with Intel.

Other than keyboard, the retina Macbook is my favourite computer ever. Still don't see any other PC maker coming up with a better solution. But 2.5 (or so) years after I built it my Hackintosh remains faster in single core benchmarks than the base Mac Pro, and it cost half of the price. I get more kernel panics and software problems on actual Macs (this household is full of Macs...) than on the Hack.

I think this thread is full of people who are waving money at Apple *cue that 'shut up and take my money' meme*, and Apple is like 'dddddd here are your new watch bands and animojis'.

I'm still using iphone 5S, still good. But for future, i don't think yet to buy macbook laptop or ipad pro. I'm not sure what i'm doing with ipad pro since it not real OSX, still cannot do presentation with HDMI unless you're buying dongle dongle.

I have try the vm style , but seem no satisfaction.

The only i can upgrade my 2017 BASE line , just E-GPU . Even so , i have no idea what it will improved my work flow with extra cost 500 ~800 dollar more.

** i'm sad when i want to buy 2015 macbook, finish stock ..

 

[bluecoast]

Out of interest, can anyone point to Windows computers of a similar quality - and upgradeability - to what Apple should be building? Ie:

- Pro Laptops
(EDIT: I originally wrote ‘ultrabooks’ here and it strikes me that this is the problem - Apple turned the MBP into a ultrabook in 2016 - which is not what pro users wanted.
- All in one PCs
- Mini PCs

(I don’t follow the PC market anymore, you see so I’m not sure where to start).

I don’t think it matters so much if the examples have a not so great exterior.

It’s more about their overall size and ability to upgrade - with modern (2018) specs of course.

 

[theluggage]

How else would we distinguish between good and bad predictors?

The good predictors are the ones who back up their predictions with sound arguments. We’re not talking exact science here, so some “good” predictions will be wrong.

The bad predictors are the ones who make logically fallacious, hand-wavy, pronouncements laden with ad Homs (you’re too upset...), straw men (I never said Apple was doomed), appeals to authority (Apple is the most valuable company) etc. - we’re not talking exact science here, so some “bad” predictions will turn out right.

 

[Musubi]

Out of interest, can anyone point to Windows computers of a similar quality - and upgradeability - to what Apple should be building?

I don't really keep track of offerings for the form factors that you listed but HP's Generation 4 workstation (either Z6 or Z8) is what I am ready to purchase next year to take over the heavy lifting duties of my 2010 Mac Pro (3.33GHz Westmere hexacore) depending on what type of design Apple ends up with for the 2019 model. Functionality is more important than form (especially if that form results in too much compromises which is why I never considered the 2013 Mac Pro) for myself. I have no issues with having to use Windows 10 Pro.

Quick overview:

Detailed 3rd party overview of the Z6:

Detailed 3rd party overview of the Z8:

 

[bluecoast]

I don't really keep track of offerings for the form factors that you listed but HP's Generation 4 workstation (either Z6 or Z8) is what I am ready to purchase next year to take over the heavy lifting duties of my 2010 Mac Pro (3.33GHz Westmere hexacore) depending on what type of design Apple ends up with for the 2019 model. Functionality is more important than form (especially if that form results in too much compromises which is why I never considered the 2013 Mac Pro) for myself. I have no issues with having to use Windows 10 Pro.

Quick overview:

Detailed 3rd party overview of the Z6:

Detailed 3rd party overview of the Z8:

Wow, those machines are beasts.

Some thoughts:

- If HP can do this, right now, why can’t Apple?
- I can only assume it’s something to do with including ARM processors in the mix somehow
- I did have a look at what a pro laptop should be in 2018 and came up with the Dell XPS 15 inch 9570.
- It seems pretty powerful and thin to me, yet apparently you can swap out the SSD, RAM & battery pretty easily.
- That’s something we can only dream about with the current MBPs
- Again: If Dell can do this, right now, why can’t Apple?

 

[alien3dx]

Wow, those machines are beasts.

Some thoughts:

- If HP can do this, right now, why can’t Apple?
- I can only assume it’s something to do with including ARM processors in the mix somehow
- I did have a look at what a pro laptop should be in 2018 and came up with the Dell XPS 15 inch 9570.
- It seems pretty powerful and thin to me, yet apparently you can swap out the SSD, RAM & battery pretty easily.
- That’s something we can only dream about with the current MBPs
- Again: If Dell can do this, right now, why can’t Apple?

apple changed to updated latest tech to design 1 mm lesser weight. First time i used magic keyboard. Pretty odd

 

[navaira]

- Mini PCs

There's a HUGE selection of Intel NUCs. It's a bring your own RAM and storage party – which answers the question whether they are upgradeable. Those NUCs aren't exactly Apple pretty, but they offer much more bang for the buck than a Mini. And they're mostly Hackintoshable.

 

[manu chao]

The good predictors are the ones who back up their predictions with sound arguments. We’re not talking exact science here, so some “good” predictions will be wrong.

The bad predictors are the ones who make logically fallacious, hand-wavy, pronouncements laden with ad Homs (you’re too upset...), straw men (I never said Apple was doomed), appeals to authority (Apple is the most valuable company) etc. - we’re not talking exact science here, so some “bad” predictions will turn out right.

Sure, but what if I am convinced that your arguments are logically fallacious, hand-wavy and straw men? How do we find a benchmark to decide which of the two of us is right?

And you can say what you want, I am not believing you if you say you are not upset, that your not charged with emotion on this subject.

 

[nt5672]

This is not true. The current keyboards are not wireless if you plug in the cables. You can disable bluetooth on the computer and the keyboard will still function.

I tried just using the wired keyboard and my iMac keeps reconnecting the wireless. While you can disable bluetooth that kills the mouse, which does not work wired. So for all practical purposes it is true.

 

[Abazigal]

The good predictors are the ones who back up their predictions with sound arguments. We’re not talking exact science here, so some “good” predictions will be wrong.

The bad predictors are the ones who make logically fallacious, hand-wavy, pronouncements laden with ad Homs (you’re too upset...), straw men (I never said Apple was doomed), appeals to authority (Apple is the most valuable company) etc. - we’re not talking exact science here, so some “bad” predictions will turn out right.

I suppose that would make me a bad predictor then.

Which then begs the question - if someone using supposedly bad “predictions” ends up having a better track record than another person relying on “good predictions”, what are the chances that the bad predictions actually the good ones, and vice versa?

In all honesty, I find the main reason why many seemingly “good predictions” about Apple end up being flat wrong despite the underlying logic sounding legitimate is simply because the people making those predictions are trying to apply a business model to a company for which said model just isn’t relevant.

You know, like when people claimed the iPhone X wouldn’t sell because it was too expensive. Which makes sense from an economic standpoint - something which costs more should sell less. Yet the iPhone X did very well, and the reason is that Apple as a company commands the best customers for whom price usually isn’t a concern, and that conventional disruption theory simply didn’t not apply.

Yet someone making this point would sound arrogant and deluded, and still end up being right. While someone relying on conventional wisdom ends up being dead wrong every single time.

Who decides what valid evidence is or isn’t?

 

[Roadstar]

Out of interest, can anyone point to Windows computers of a similar quality - and upgradeability - to what Apple should be building? Ie:

- Pro Laptops
(EDIT: I originally wrote ‘ultrabooks’ here and it strikes me that this is the problem - Apple turned the MBP into a ultrabook in 2016 - which is not what pro users wanted.
- All in one PCs
- Mini PCs

(I don’t follow the PC market anymore, you see so I’m not sure where to start).

I don’t think it matters so much if the examples have a not so great exterior.

It’s more about their overall size and ability to upgrade - with modern (2018) specs of course.

Lenovo has Thinkpads in various sizes and most of them can be upgraded and/or fixed nicely. The keyboards are also top notch, and that’s why I might be buying a personal (I’ve got one from my employer and one from the current client project as well) Thinkpad in the near future.

 

[Val-kyrie]

Definitely.

I have been directly responsible for say 5-10 people becoming apple customers and will also be responsible for diverting the same or similar number away due to being the person who gets asked amongst my social circle.

I'm not alone. You lose goodwill with the people who others turn to for advice, and the impact is significant.

After SJ returned to the helm at Apple, I steered countless people and businesses to the Mac. Now I cannot do so in good conscience.

As an example, out of the blue, my dad called me yesterday because he was thinking about purchasing a new Mac, but he complained that the MBPs lacked the ports he needs and cost too much. He really only uses macOS for personal use but needs Windows for his business. He can run El Capitan and VMWare Fusion on his older 15" MBP and that is all he needs. I told him not to bother buying a new Mac and shared how close i am to purchasing a PC and going back to Windows. His MBP is an older model so we are going to upgrade his HD to an SSD. If he needs something else, I will steer him back to a PC.

Apple is already losing customers, and a shift to ARM will amplify this shift when normal users like my dad can no longer run Windows in an emulator. Death by a thousand cuts.

 

[ocnitsa]

Apple is already losing customers, and a shift to ARM will amplify this shift when normal users like my dad can no longer run Windows in an emulator. Death by a thousand cuts.

Do you mean via bootcamp? Why wouldn't ARM be able to run Windows in a virtual machine?

 

[bluecoast]

Lenovo has Thinkpads in various sizes and most of them can be upgraded and/or fixed nicely. The keyboards are also top notch, and that’s why I might be buying a personal (I’ve got one from my employer and one from the current client project as well) Thinkpad in the near future.

Thanks so much.

Have to admit, now I’m looking at other companies laptops, I’m pretty shocked at what Apple is offering - or isn’t.

So much choice, the build quality is getting better and better at the high end and pro machines are (mostly) designed to be user-serviceable with the RAM and SSD at least - with battery replacement being relatively easy.

For me, all it would now take is for Windows to not be terrible. Admittedly, that’s a big ask, but MS does seem to be taking this seriously now!

 

[alien3dx]

Thanks so much.

Have to admit, now I’m looking at other companies laptops, I’m pretty shocked at what Apple is offering - or isn’t.

So much choice, the build quality is getting better and better at the high end and pro machines are (mostly) designed to be user-serviceable with the RAM and SSD at least - with battery replacement being relatively easy.

For me, all it would now take is for Windows to not be terrible. Admittedly, that’s a big ask, but MS does seem to be taking this seriously now!

windows just an operating system. If OSX can be installed on normal laptop if legal, i think they can cope easily 50% market of the world , but they don't have the group /staff to cater all the manufacturer in the world like Microsoft does.

Microsoft on the gain of linux this day and swift also comin to ubuntu
https://www.microsoft.com/net/download/macos ..

 

[Omega Mac]

[doublepost=1529543964][/doublepost]Apple is a phone company.

.. and a phone is now a computer, is an everyday appliance.

 

[Endorphine88]

You HAVE To be joking.

In your price differential with wintel, don't forget the $$$ for Applecare/Applecare+

You may not want to tinker, but when you get the $700+ bill for the repair of a $20 part, the day after Applecare runs out, you'll be wondering why it's not easier/cheaper to fix.

You know who also didn't want to 'tinker' with their devices? My wife, mother, two sisters, nephew, niece, in-laws. You know who DID 'tinker' and improve the performance of their Macs over time? ME. I saved my family thousands, over the years, because I 'tinker'.

Can you guess who now tells their family to NOT buy Macs anymore, because they are all sealed? Yep, you guessed it - ME.

Your argument is as unsound as the anti-3.5mm plug folks - Take it out, I don't use it. If you don't use it, what harm is there in keeping it for people who do?

Insanity!!

I'm sorry your family has had a bad experience with Apple. Mine has been quite the opposite. I know what I am buying and I understand completely that it would cost a lot to repair once AppleCare is no longer valid.
I also no longer use the headphone jack on my phone. No one is forcing me to make the choices I make, they are completely voluntary and you don't have to approve of them. There's plenty of alternatives out there and that's the beauty of competition.

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Thanks so much.
For me, all it would now take is for Windows to not be terrible. Admittedly, that’s a big ask, but MS does seem to be taking this seriously now!

I don't know the last time you used Windows, but nowadays it is only a matter of preference, not a matter of quality. Even most MacRumors members (besides the religious fanatics) will admit to that. And heck! Even if they don't admit it, ask them how many have Windows installed on their Macs/MacBook (pro)'s nowadays

 

[bluecoast]

I don't know the last time you used Windows, but nowadays it is only a matter of preference, not a matter of quality. Even most MacRumors members (besides the religious fanatics) will admit to that. And heck! Even if they don't admit it, ask them how many have Windows installed on their Macs/MacBook (pro)'s nowadays

I've used Windows a great deal since Windows 3.11, 95 up to 10 with Vista being the only version that I didn't use too much (thankfully - I remember a file copy of about 50mb to a local file server being estimated to take 2 hours by Explorer. It took about 2 minutes)

Anyhow, I'd have to respectfully take issue with you there, as in I think that the user experience - always a strong point of the Mac - is way way better than Windows 10.

When you use Windows 10, it doesn't take much for you to dig down and reveal lots of Win32 admin and accessory apps that haven't been updated (seemingly) since Win 7.

They look really really out of place with their smaller font sizes and toolbars etc. than the new up to date Win 10 UWP (including Windows Explorer). And that's just the 1st party apps - 3rd party apps mostly use Win32 (admittedly as MS really messed up the UWP transition leaving devs scratching their heads). It makes the system feel really really disjointed.

And let's not mention the Win 7 era Control Panel - which is still going strong.

Finally, MS does seem to be accelerating its drive to make Windows have a better user experience - the new fluent design framework has been back ported to Win32 and we're seeing it pop up all over the place.

I wouldn't be surprised if by March next year, Windows 10 is looking and feeling pretty great.

However, If you're just in MS Office, Firefox, Chrome or Adobe CS etc. it doesn't matter too much if you have a Mac or a PC, I'll admit!

Not to mention the games. So many games...

 

[theluggage]

Which then begs the question - if someone using supposedly bad “predictions” ends up having a better track record than another person relying on “good predictions”, what are the chances that the bad predictions actually the good ones, and vice versa?

Ok, let's have a knock-out coin-tossing tournament: 1024 people pair up, toss a coin and the winner goes through to the next round. After 10 rounds there will be a single winner who has won 10 tosses in succession: that person must be some sort of coin-tossing genius, right?

We're all speculating about a complex system based on insufficient data. Its all educated guesses. Anybody who could predict the impending demise of Apple with any degree of confidence wouldn't be posting it here, they'd be on the phone to their broker shorting AAPL.

You know, like when people claimed the iPhone X wouldn’t sell because it was too expensive. Which makes sense from an economic standpoint - something which costs more should sell less. Yet the iPhone X did very well,

Do we actually have the data to prove that? What does "wouldn't sell" or "did very well" mean? What is important in the long term - unit sales or revenue? Looking at Apple's figures, total iPhone unit sales were up 3% in Q2 2018 (...when the iPhone X was readily available) c.f. Q2 2017 (...when the newest iPhone was the non-spectacular, incremental, 7 and everybody was speculating about the forthcoming radical iPhone re-design). Is that good, or would you expect a surge in sales after a major once-in-2-3-years revamp? Revenue was up 14% - but then both the X and the 8 were more expensive than previous models - is making more money out of flat sales my hiking margins sustainable? Come September when the iPhone XI/Xs/whatever launches, will customers who have previously updated every year think twice because of the higher price?

Did the people making that prediction also anticipate that Apple's major competitor, Samsung, and arch-enemies, Google, would also hike the price of their flagship phones - (probably for the same reason, to make more money out of stagnant sales)?

Its a similar case for the 2016 MacBook Pros - they certainly didn't flop, but they didn't bring in a massive growth in unit sales as you might expect from the first major re-design in years - revenue went up because the prices went up.

If someone makes a prediction based on a convincing-sounding argument (something which costs more should sell less) and that turns out not to happen, then the question has to be why?

The iPhone 7 was going to be a complete failure because it didn't have a headphone jack - the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 blew it out of the water... but then it turned out that the Note 7 tended to blow itself out of the water. Did Apple maybe dodge a bullet there?

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

I didn't really look at it from that perspective. That makes sense. However, it is something I appreciate about Apple products and it appeals to me. I don't want something I can "tinker" with. I want a sealed device. There are definitely alternatives out there with better specs and a lower price,but I've seen time and time again how people run benchmarks and compare a seemingly less "powerful" Mac against a PC, for example, that has better specs and the Mac always ends up being more efficient and delivers better performance.
I think that Apple was bound to face this challenge as their product line grew over the years, but I also think they create their own rules. It is certainly not such a big issue to me.

What would be the difference to you if Apple would not seal your device? Why are you so adamant about having it sealed? Simply don't open it and use it as you always did. You won't even notice the difference if it is sealed or not. If someone else wants to upgrade such a device let them. In the end you will even be better off because repair on those devices is much cheaper, simply because they are not glued together but easily accessible.

The title of this thread is: "Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'" and that is exactly what this whole discussion is about: professional users about professional Macs. Being upgradable is a must on professional machines.