Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[LordVic]

moving the same drive to USB-A enclosure gives me 40 MB/s read/write speeds due to USB 3.0

Somethinsg wrong. USB-3.0, while not Thunderbolt 3 speeds is effectively 5gbps. can easily push a standard hard drive at 110MB/s and do some serious good numbers on SSD. at 40MB/s it sounds like the USB controller itself on the device (not the iMac) is only USB2.0, which is limited to 480mbps.

Switch the drive enclosure to a USB3 enclosure and you'll likely get a much better improvement in performance. Although a boot drive over USB is not ideal

 

[Count Blah]

Somethinsg wrong. USB-3.0, while not Thunderbolt 3 speeds is effectively 5gbps. can easily push a standard hard drive at 110MB/s and do some serious good numbers on SSD. at 40MB/s it sounds like the USB controller itself on the device (not the iMac) is only USB2.0, which is limited to 480mbps.

Switch the drive enclosure to a USB3 enclosure and you'll likely get a much better improvement in performance. Although a boot drive over USB is not ideal

Better than the glued in spiny drives Apple ships

 

[Roadstar]

After a while the iMac figured out more or less what to put on its five kB SSD, and now only takes twice as long to start up as the 2011 one did. Everything works OK, programs launch at very acceptable pace. Except Windows and everything in it, because the VM file is 64 GB, and obviously can't fit on the 24 GB Flash capacity of the Fusion Drive. But the bigger problem was Microsoft's shamelessness. 'This machine's processor is 7th generation. That means it's too new. Get Windows 10.' We were forced to install Win 10 because the machine is too new. Even when I bought new Macbooks that were not supposed to run the old system, a Time Machine restore gave me a nice and shiny install of El Capitan. The Win 8.1 VM is, well, a VM, the drive image is the same as it was, but the processor is too new. I can't with that.

I'm awaiting #dongles so I can connect the SSD again, but I'm also marvelling over how shameless Microsoft is. Computer is too new to receive security updates. Win 8.1 is still being updated, worked perfectly well, it's not like it's some sort of ancient system that was originally compiled for Commodore 64. And this sort of thing is example #5958 why despite of 'sad state of Macintosh hardware' I want to stick with a Mac, despite the insane storage prices.

Umm, I’m not sure how the Mac is better in this scenario since as far as I know, you can’t successfully install an earlier version of macOS than the one the computer came with. The drivers just aren’t there.

 

[navaira]

Switch the drive enclosure to a USB3 enclosure and you'll likely get a much better improvement in performance. Although a boot drive over USB is not ideal

It's USB3.1 compatible enclosure. System Report tells me it's on USB 3.0 hub, and speed is up to 480 Mb/s (not MB). Tried it on two computers with the same enclosure *and* tried two SSDs (I have too many spare parts everywhere around the house...)

Edit: It was the CABLE. I swear...
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Umm, I’m not sure how the Mac is better in this scenario since as far as I know, you can’t successfully install an earlier version of macOS than the one the computer came with. The drivers just aren’t there.

I bought a 2016 rMB, then restored El Capitan from Time Machine to it – it was possible, even though the rMB came with Sierra. Haven't tried any other versions though.

 

[LordVic]

It's USB3.1 compatible enclosure. System Report tells me it's on USB 3.0 hub, and speed is up to 480 Mb/s (not MB). Tried it on two computers with the same enclosure *and* tried two SSDs (I have too many spare parts everywhere around the house...)

Edit: It was the CABLE. I swear...

Hopefully working properly now

 

[chucker23n1]

The absolute worst windows ever written? That's a toss up between ME and Vista. those cores and kernels were so absolutely horrendously unstable. Overbearing requirements for performance, and just downright blasphemies to technology.

Characterizing Vista's kernel as "horrendously unstable" isn't fair, I'd say. "Overbearing requirements for performance" certainly is, yes. Vista was released quite prematurely, but it had to be, as they were way, way behind schedule — it was originally supposed to be a small release before the bigger Blackcomb, but features kept creeping in, and even after they kicked some out (the Longhorn "reset"), things got delayed. As a result, and because some performance-heavy stuff like Aero was left in, they had too little time for optimizations. You can see this in 7, which isn't that significantly different, yet performs much more smoothly — had they been given another two and a half years, Vista would've had quite a different perception.

But reliability-wise? I suppose the original release wasn't that great; the Service Packs helped. But since the 6.0 kernel got massive improvements compared XP's 5.1/5.2, I feel it's more of a toss-up.

Windows 10 still has a bit of an issue with settings vs control panel. But that's going to be a long painful road to go down. The Control panel itself is an immensely powerful set of tools, that as an admin, i loath to give up. Settings might be great for your average user, but it does not have everything that control panel can do

In general, I feel they're on the wrong path with the Metro/UWP/Fluent UI. It's ugly, it has low information density, it requires them to rewrite stuff that was working fine and replace it with versions that lack features. And that in turn leads to bizarre situations where you're pointed to the "old" version for when you want to do advanced stuff.

In This PC (née My Computer), you no longer get offered Control Panel. It used to be that you got offered both, which was of course a questionable UI. However, if you click Uninstall or change a program, Apps & features first opens in settings, then you're offered "Programs and features" as a "related setting" (how is a regular user supposed to figure out what that even means?), which is the old UI for the same thing, because the new UI cannot do all the same stuff. Some obscure features like "Install a program from the network" are gone, and in addition, the old UI offered much more customization and density on how to display the information.

And then there's the problem Windows has had for a very long time: multiple UIs that all do the same thing, but different portions of it. Settings has a UI to manage your account and that of others. Control Panel has the Vista-era one that used to do the same, but now does stuff like configuring UAC. You can go from there to the 2000-era one by clicking "Manage User Accounts" (really? I thought that's what I've been doing here?). And that one, in turn, points to "Advanced user management" which takes place in MMC. In Settings, you see that you're an Administrator, but it's not really explained what that means or whether you can change it. In the 2000-era UI, you get radio buttons to pick a group, including an explanation, which is actually pretty decent UI. But both of those UIs also lie, as MMC shows: your relationship to groups is 1:n, so MMC instead shows a list of groups you're a part of. Want to give someone else admin access to your computer? You're probably best off doing it in the UI that hasn't been touched in nearly two decades and instead has seen four different attempts (I skipped the XP-style UI that has actually been killed off) to replace it.

Microsoft has always been weirdly impotent to fix this: make a coherent story of what users should and shouldn't be able to do, then make a UI for it, hide some stuff under Advanced to make it scarier to change and set a focus on the more common actions, and presto.

And while an increasing amount of built-in Windows stuff uses the new new new UI, I still want to see Microsoft dogfood this more and redesign Visual Studio in it. Not because I actually want it (I suspect the results would be a nightmare), but because I want them to realize what a flawed approach "no compromises!" is.

How did you even get to use Windows ME?

I guess you must've seen it work in the seconds that it stayed up between plug n play driver crashes!

Incidentally, I had this weird unicorn of a computer that was far more reliable in Windows ME than it was in the Windows 98 SE it shipped with.

 

[Brian Crockett]

Agree or disagree, Mac value holds up extremely well and lifespan are increasingly pushing the boundaries...Look at MacBook Air from 10 years ago still fetching over $100 dollars on eBay. People are keeping their devices longer and longer no need for product refreshes every year. IMO.

The reason I'm holding on to my late 15" 2009 Macbook Pro is that the prices have jumped dramatically. The change from mechanical drives to SSD's has priced me out of the market. I paid $1800 for my Macbook Pro in early 2010 to replace it with an equivalent capacity 15" would be over $3000.

 

[chucker23n1]

The reason I'm holding on to my late 15" 2009 Macbook Pro is that the prices have jumped dramatically. The change from mechanical drives to SSD's has priced me out of the market. I paid $1800 for my Macbook Pro in early 2010 to replace it with an equivalent capacity 15" would be over $3000.

It's true that the MacBook Pros start quite a bit higher, but the 2009 15-inch MacBook Pro had 500 GB storage max, and the 2017 15-inch MacBook Pro with 512 GB storage is $2600.

 

[Brian Crockett]

My 2 cents, bring back the Xserve.
I develop in FileMaker for Mac shops. Bringing in a Windows server just to run FileMaker is a real pain. Mac Mini's are too underpowered for big stuff and and there's no redundant power supply, network ports, raid, etc. So we have to buy a non Apple box that's rack mountable and has hot swappable drives and server grade components , then install Windows Server on it. $$$$.
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It's true that the MacBook Pros start quite a bit higher, but the 2009 15-inch MacBook Pro had 500 GB storage max, and the 2017 15-inch MacBook Pro with 512 GB storage is $2600.

Unfortunately, I upgraded the drive in mine to 1TB for about $120 third party. To get 1TB in the 2017 15-inch brings it up to $3200. That's $600 for an additional 512. My 1TB drive is nearly full. To pair things down to fit in 512 would be a serious pain. It would take me days to triage everything.

 

[Skeptical.me]

I "don't mind" them but i built a superior spec machine (to the base model) for about half the price.

Sure it didn't include the monitor but i do not need or want a monitor. I already have one.

(R7-2700X, 32 GB RAM, 1 TB Samsung Evo 860 SSD, 2x RX Vega 64 for around $4k AUD).

To get anywhere similar spec to that (still inferior) I'd be looking at $7k AUD.

(replaced the R7 with a threadripper as appropriate if you want more cores. it's still way cheaper).

And i have slots in the PC.
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Well, ok you could do that. But thats not really a supported method. Disabling BITS also breaks a heap of other stuff that you may want to use BITS for, e.g., large file copies across the WAN, etc.
[doublepost=1529559308][/doublepost]

See, people wouldn't have to be doing this stuff if Microsoft actually provided the option for more fine grained user control over the process.

But they aren't interested in that. If you run Windows 10 you're a product to monetise.

Can I pay you to build my next mac lol - Im an Aussie ;-)

 

[kudukudu]

In my house we have current generation macbooks/ipads/iphones, but my home desktop machine is an ancient 2008 mac pro. I don't use it all that much, but it is my repository for home videos, all our pictures, etc. I will not buy an all-in-one imac since I want a chassis to put a bunch of drives and believe in having a desktop machine with proper components and cooling. My 2008 mac pro is going strong after 10 years, but I have seen multiple failures in imacs with crowded components due to inadequate cooling. I have been waiting to see if apple will ever re-introduce a proper cheese grater style mac pro or whether my next desktop machine is going to be a custom build with Windows.

 

[Expattyke]

Rogue Amoeba developer Quentin Carnicelli, who works on Mac software like Airfoil, Audio Hijack, Loopback, and Fission, this week penned a critique of Apple's Mac lineup and the company's recent lack of Mac updates, and that missive has been gaining some attention from Mac fans.

Using MacRumors' own Buyer's Guide, Carnicelli points out that it's been more than a year since any Mac, with the exception of the iMac Pro, has been updated.

It's been 375 days, for example, since the iMac, MacBook, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Air machines were last updated, and it's been 437 days since the Mac Pro saw the price drop Apple implemented as it works on a Mac Pro replacement.

The Mac Pro has not seen a hardware update since December of 2013, more than 1600 days ago. Apple has promised its professional users that a high-end high-throughput modular Mac Pro system is in the works, but we thus far have no details on when it might see a release.

The Mac mini, Apple's most affordable desktop Mac, has gone 1338 days without an update, with the last refresh introduced in October of 2014. While Apple has made promises about a refreshed Mac Pro, no similar statement has been provided about a future Mac mini, aside from a comment from Apple CEO Tim Cook stating that the Mac mini continues to be important to Apple.

According to Carnicelli, the state of the Mac lineup is "deeply worrisome" to him as a person who works for a Mac-based software company. Customers are, he says, forced to choose between "purchasing new computers that are actually years old" or "holding out in the faint hope that hardware updates are still to come."As Carnicelli points out, Apple could reassure its Mac users with updates and speed bumps to its Mac lineup on a "much more frequent basis," calling the current lack of updates "baffling and frightening to anyone who depends on the platform for their livelihood."

Apple in 2017 refreshed much of its Mac lineup (iMac, MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, and MacBook) at its Worldwide Developers Conference, but this year, Apple opted to focus instead on software, with no new Mac hardware announced. With no new hardware in June, based on past release history, we could be looking at an 18-month upgrade cycle this time around, as pointed out by iMore's Rene Ritchie, with new Macs making an appearance in September or October.

Some of the blame for Apple's lack of updates can perhaps be placed on its reliance on Intel, and in the past, some Mac refreshes have been pushed back due to delays with Intel chips. This is likely one of the reasons why Apple is planning to transition from Intel chips to its own custom made Mac chips as early as 2020.

MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac, and MacBook Air upgrades are not in the dire state that Mac Pro and Mac mini upgrades are in, but increased attention on issues with the MacBook and MacBook Pro keyboards has left Apple customers eager to see those machine updated, especially as Apple has not acknowledged these keyboard issues despite their prevalence in the media.

"Apple needs to publicly show their commitment to the full Macintosh hardware line and they need to do it now," writes Carnicelli.

Carnicelli's comments on the state of the Mac lineup came just before Apple released a new Mac advertising campaign. Called "Behind the Mac," the campaign highlights creators who use their Macs to "make something wonderful."

The first ad spots in the series focus on photographer and disability advocate Bruce Hall, who uses his Mac for editing photographs, musician Grimes, who uses the Mac "from start to finish" to write all of her music, edit music videos, and more, and app developer Peter Kariuki who used his Mac to code the SafeMotos app, which is designed to connect passengers with safe motorcycle drivers in Rwanda.

These ads, while inspiring, may be seen as too little too late by those who have grown frustrated with Apple's Mac lineup and have come to see the lack of updates as an indicator of a lack of commitment to the Mac.

Article Link: Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'

[doublepost=1539199227][/doublepost]New to this forum, 14 years a Mac user, disgusted with the lack of attention to Macs. My first Mac was a mini in 2004. The low entry price allowed me to dip my toe in the water and learn what wonderful devices they were. I followed it with a couple of Intel based Macbooks, then a couple of Airs, then my current 2015 Macbook Pro, all great machines. As an IT guy I had hoped for continuation of the server line, first disappointment. Then the Mac Pro stagnated, so it couldn't reasonably be used as a server. The Mini never had enough horsepower, and Apple wouldn't license OS/X server for use on competent hardware. On the personal side, the Airs didn't get upgrades and the new MacBook came with no ports to speak of. At this point I have to conclude that Macs are of little or no concern to Apple, as it is now a mobile/cloud/media company.

 

[BaltimoreMediaBlog]

In my house we have current generation macbooks/ipads/iphones, but my home desktop machine is an ancient 2008 mac pro. I don't use it all that much, but it is my repository for home videos, all our pictures, etc. I will not buy an all-in-one imac since I want a chassis to put a bunch of drives and believe in having a desktop machine with proper components and cooling. My 2008 mac pro is going strong after 10 years, but I have seen multiple failures in imacs with crowded components due to inadequate cooling. I have been waiting to see if apple will ever re-introduce a proper cheese grater style mac pro or whether my next desktop machine is going to be a custom build with Windows.

I am in nearly the exact same position. My 2009 Mac Pro is upgraded with a Metal graphics card. Not ever buying an iMac and wondering if Apple will ever again sell a replacement for this machine. I don't want a disposable machine and I don't currently need a laptop.

 

[Candykane75]

In my house we have current generation macbooks/ipads/iphones, but my home desktop machine is an ancient 2008 mac pro. I don't use it all that much, but it is my repository for home videos, all our pictures, etc. I will not buy an all-in-one imac since I want a chassis to put a bunch of drives and believe in having a desktop machine with proper components and cooling. My 2008 mac pro is going strong after 10 years, but I have seen multiple failures in imacs with crowded components due to inadequate cooling. I have been waiting to see if apple will ever re-introduce a proper cheese grater style mac pro or whether my next desktop machine is going to be a custom build with Windows.

Im sorry to say but in your hearth, you know the awnser, Apple only cares about how things look. It has to be all slimm beautiful,non servisable , and trash in 2-3 years . They dont care your laptop has to look like a frankinstein with zillions of wires to connect everthing in there mind everthing is wireless and storage you put in the cloud so you can pay them a montly fee to get acces to your own data ...

 

[groadyho]

9yrs old, win7 now running win10 pro, Beats Audio, 1tb storage came with it, AMD phenom quad core, the AMD radeon graphics card still gets updates, startup is fast and it still runs like a champ all for $700. Wife has current office on it. Never had issues other windows users complain about. She just works. Been waiting for her to die but she won't. I should add I use a 21in LG 1080p flat panel monitor

 

[john123]

I really can't blame Apple. They've created such cachet around their brand and such a strong ecosystem that they're able to sell tons of whatever gimmicky mediocre mobile computing product they put on the market. What incentive could they possibly have to "do it right"? Whatever increase in sales they'd get from power users would be more than offset by the hit in brand associations and the losses from people who prioritize thin and shiny over powerful.

I don't have to like it, but as a corporate strategy, it absolutely makes sense.

 

[JungleNYC]

In my house we have current generation macbooks/ipads/iphones, but my home desktop machine is an ancient 2008 mac pro. I don't use it all that much, but it is my repository for home videos, all our pictures, etc. I will not buy an all-in-one imac since I want a chassis to put a bunch of drives and believe in having a desktop machine with proper components and cooling. My 2008 mac pro is going strong after 10 years, but I have seen multiple failures in imacs with crowded components due to inadequate cooling. I have been waiting to see if apple will ever re-introduce a proper cheese grater style mac pro or whether my next desktop machine is going to be a custom build with Windows.

I am in a near identical position. Clinging onto my 2008 MacPro (upgraded graphics card, maxed RAM) and it SUCKS running on ElCap, but i gotta keep CS5 and Aperture alive! I do not care how "thin" a computer is. I just want it to work well, be upgradeable, and not be automatically "retired" after 5 years.

 

[MiG007]

9yrs old, win7 now running win10 pro, Beats Audio, 1tb storage came with it, AMD phenom quad core, the AMD radeon graphics card still gets updates, startup is fast and it still runs like a champ all for $700. Wife has current office on it. Never had issues other windows users complain about. She just works. Been waiting for her to die but she won't. I should add I use a 21in LG 1080p flat panel monitor

...um maybe you need to rephrase your second to the last sentence or maybe use non-gender specific pronoun?

 

[curtvaughan]

Honestly, unless you are doing professional video or photo editing, all most people need these days is a Pixelbook, tablet with keyboard, mouse and external monitor support or something similar. There are apps that can do pretty much anything that a traditional desktop app can do and in some cases can do more.

The other exception may be those into gaming, but again, that is a niche market that is going to become less and less profitable as time goes on, as a result we are going to see fewer and fewer Mac and even Windows based computer updates. Instead we are going to see a focus where the money is and that is on devices that have an Ecosystem, be it Apple based iDevices, Google Chrome Based Devices, Android Devices or Amazon Devices. Ultimately that is where the money is and Amazon has it right, it isn't in overpricing the hardware, the profits are in getting as many people as you can to use your devices and then sell them software, movies, books, etc. through your own store.

We may not like this model, but it is the way things are going to go and I begrudgingly admit that there are some advantages to this approach, such as better security (not perfect, but better), systems that encourage cloud based usage like the Pixelbook also have a bit of an advantage, as your data is saved as you type, in real time and if something happens, you can log in on any other device and pick up right where you left off.

Ultimately, the PC and the Mac are dying and I think we need to begin to accept that now, rather than waking up one day and finding they are no longer being sold at all and start to be in panic mode.

Tell that to the thousands of students I see with laptops at a major state university in my town. Sure, they all have phones, but they all use laptops for their research and school work. Thousands. Desktops are not being used as much, but laptop PCs, both Apple and otherwise, are still being very much purchased and used. Phones and tablets are for content, laptops (and desktops) are for production. This is an old topic, and this likely won't be read, but I just had to sound off. Cheers, from my Dell XPS 13 running Arch Linux. I needed ports and didn't want dongles, so no longer buy Apple laptops. I have a nice iPad Pro and an iPhone 6s+ with a phone jack. Probably bought my last iMac about a year ago. If Apple doesn't keep up development of the Mac line, I'll probably get a nice PC desktop when the Mac goes south. I also agree that the form factor of the iMacs lends to cooling issues which limit their trouble free operation to about 4-5 years. My old 2006 MBP still runs - obviously dated, but it runs and was a great hardware purchase 12 years ago. If Apple really put out a new cheese grater style Mac Pro, I'd gladly make it my next anchoring desktop.

 

[groadyho]

...um maybe you need to rephrase your second to the last sentence or maybe use non-gender specific pronoun?

Lol. Dont let my 69' Chevelle hear you say that, she might take offence.

 

[brofkand]

9yrs old, win7 now running win10 pro, Beats Audio, 1tb storage came with it, AMD phenom quad core, the AMD radeon graphics card still gets updates, startup is fast and it still runs like a champ all for $700. Wife has current office on it. Never had issues other windows users complain about. She just works. Been waiting for her to die but she won't. I should add I use a 21in LG 1080p flat panel monitor

The only issues I have had with Windows for the past 10 years are third party software and drivers. Those have gotten more and more rare as Windows has gotten better at plug and play, and app developers have updated their software. Nowadays I'd actually say my Windows machines are more bug-free and trouble-free than my iMac. How far we've come!

 

[utelme]

[doublepost=1539199227][/doublepost]
New to this forum, 14 years a Mac user, disgusted with the lack of attention to Macs. My first Mac was a mini in 2004. The low entry price allowed me to dip my toe in the water and learn what wonderful devices they were. I followed it with a couple of Intel based Macbooks, then a couple of Airs, then my current 2015 Macbook Pro, all great machines. As an IT guy I had hoped for continuation of the server line, first disappointment. Then the Mac Pro stagnated, so it couldn't reasonably be used as a server. The Mini never had enough horsepower, and Apple wouldn't license OS/X server for use on competent hardware. On the personal side, the Airs didn't get upgrades and the new MacBook came with no ports to speak of. At this point I have to conclude that Macs are of little or no concern to Apple, as it is now a mobile/cloud/media company.

I've been a Mac computer user since my first Apple II back in the day. No Rom auto start, hard drives haven't been invented yet, used 2 3.5 inch floppy disks. Next I bought a 150baud modem that was not full duplex you needed to throw a switch to send and receive. It's so long ago computers for most were something to explore an figure out. But now even though they have more power and can do more they have sorta lost their mystique. I remember when I made my first connection to another person via text it was amazing to watch each letter being typed. I ran a BBS few years later using a IIgs a sort of precursor to the release of the first Mac back in 84. Apple was the first home computer took pc years to figure out people wanted computers. But these day's it's all about cloud computing iOS and iPhone's and apps. I currently am typing on a iMac 27" 2011 3.1ghz. I installed 32gig's of ram memory. But it's old and the AMD Radeon HD 6970M graphics card was flawed and quit. I repaired it myself and managed to get it working again it's running on borrowed time. I was planning on getting a new Mac but all I see are over priced hardware that Apple's proprietary hardware attitude I'm sure is killing sales. What they are offering are closed systems, they even now glue the screens
on their latest iMac's and iMac Pros. So what they are telling me stay out only Apple is allowed to repair and after 3 years forget fixing our Mac. Why would anyone shell out 6 grand or more for a computer that only has 3 years of warranty. With the last 2 years the user pays for Apple Care to get the extra 2 years of coverage. It wasn't so bad with earlier system since you could depend third party upgrades or repairs, that seems to be a thing of the passed. Apple is a company that is focused only on their revenue stream and stock price. Once my iMac 27 dies I am at a lost for what I should get probably a used Mac somewhere or just by a cheap entry level.

 

[LiveM]

...um maybe you need to rephrase your second to the last sentence or maybe use non-gender specific pronoun?

She is correct, though I understand if you were referring to the possible confusion for the wife.

 

[groadyho]

The only issues I have had with Windows for the past 10 years are third party software and drivers. Those have gotten more and more rare as Windows has gotten better at plug and play, and app developers have updated their software. Nowadays I'd actually say my Windows machines are more bug-free and trouble-free than my iMac. How far we've come!

For me it is the loss of controlling updates. I can no longer pick and choose which ones ones to download and update. Tbh, win10 has made thst 9yr old machine feel new again. I like it. Some pretty cool features too, like 3d photos

 

[navaira]

She is correct, though I understand if you were referring to the possible confusion for the wife.

I also thought "you're waiting for your wife to die? Does she know that?!"