Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Popular Mac Developer Slams Apple for 'Sad State of Macintosh Hardware'
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I dont care about "light" and neither does Apple, by the time you now add in the extra weight, bulk and inconvenience of the multiple adaptors you need to do anything useful you are back to where you were.
Hell, my first "portable" was a Kaypro 4.
My (now dead) MBP was an early 2011, added 16GB RAM and a 500GB SSD and it was still a good machine , intact it was a better machine than anything Apple now offer because I could take my laptop and do the jobs I needed all without a bloody adaptor.
What does that mean? They updated it just last year with the best components available within the thermal requirements. They also introduced a new iMac Pro recently too.
Yeah, but if Apple had not artificially constrained its self with this "it must be thin" w@nk then they could have come out with a better product. Sure higher thermal dissipation requirements, but faster and better .
We see this with the keyboards on the laptops too, the end result a cr@ppy keyboard prone to failure .
I had a 2011 MBP and if it had not died (GPU DOA) then I would still be using it. What I am using instead is my 2009 iMac because Apples current product lineup is garbage, there is nothing I would spend my money on, so I am not.
Apple has made too many design compromises that negatively impact the actual users. RAM soldered in, SSD soldered in, both items which I upgraded in my old MBP myself, and I am damned if I am going to pay Apple 4 times what either upgrade is actually worth.
I have been a Mac user since my 512KE, and every machine I owned since I have upgraded RAM/Storage.
As for the iMac Pro, ROTFLMAO, I am NOT paying that for a computer unless its a PC, because in 2 years time I can upgrade the video card, upgrade the RAM, install a 2nd SSD, etc etc etc.
Sorry Apple, closed box = closed wallet.
Apple has forced me to reevaluate everything. 10.14 is going to break a lot of my software. Apple is highly unlikely to have any decent hardware before 10.14 release. So if I am to get new hardware and software anyway, why not Windows or better still Linux.
Then you take a look at the Microsoft Surface Studio which starts at $3,000 and is worse than the base 27" 5K iMac in so many ways. Is there any way to upgrade the GPU on that?
The possibility that other manufacturers have equally bad hardware in no way excuses Apple.
Completely agree! Look at BOXX.com, you won’t find the slimmest machines but portables with 64 Gb memory.
It is never a strong argument to point a finger to others to defend one's own weaknesses.
On top of that: in the PC/Windows world there is freedom of (hardware) choice(s). With Apple not so much. If one doesn't like a Surface Studio one can easily pick something else, be it Microsoft or another OEM. Again, with Apple not so much.
Last edited:
Not even.
As a reminder, Windows XP came out in 2001.
Windows NT was out in the early 90s.
MacOS, prior to OS X did not even do multiple security contexts, and didn't even do memory protection. Every application ran with the same privileges and anything could crash anything else. A broken application could crash the kernel. The only advantage Apple had back then was the applications and the fact that people writing malware were targeting Windows primarily because you can get 90% of the results for half the effort (i.e., target one platform instead of 2).
Even Windows 95 did rudimentary memory protection between applications (so a crashed app didn't usually take down the OS unless it crashed an OS service).
Even Windows XP (which was a security disaster compared to Windows NT or 2000 due to additional network services exposed) was massively superior to classic macOS - from an architectural standpoint.
Sure, OS X was out in about 2000-2001 as well, but it really wasn't usable as a good performing operating system by the majority of Mac users until a few years after that. Say, Tiger.
[doublepost=1529895122][/doublepost]
Then they need to adjust their thermal design.
There's no way i'm buying a 21" all-in-one for that price without the ability to upgrade memory or storage and without a decent GPU.
I don't want a 27" non-Pro iMac, as it probably won't even fit on my desk, the price is a lot more severe and the GPUs in them are not enough for what i want either.
The iMac pro spec is surplus to my requirements in some areas and still lacking in others. It is massively over-priced vs. what I can get that better suits my requirements in PC land. Like... almost double the cost for still inferior-for-me spec.
Apple is building machines to some magical imaginary end user spec that just doesn't reflect what most people actually want.
People buy apple computers right now DESPITE the hardware, not because of it. Apple hardware used to be a selling point, and right now it just isn't.
Last edited:
I think the sales figures totally disprove your statement. It would have been more correctly to say that Apple does not reflect what you want. As far as I’m concerned, the hardware is more than enough for my needs and wants, save for the slow HDDs in the 21.5” iMacs.
I am really disappointed they put so much efforts in bringing a (next to useless for me) new iPhone on a regular and foreseeable basis but apparently that’s what most people actually want. They want a new toy for browsing facebook and instagram while they commute with the underground.
How so?
When did Apple take over the majority of the desktop or notebook market?
Fact is, Macs are a minority. If they built something that was suitable for the majority of users at a competitive price (i.e., as per my post "what most people want"), most people would buy them, as they do with the iPad. Even without the "ecosystem" (i.e., vendor lock in).
They don't. They're a minority in the market because they cater only to a fringe user group. Those who largely care more about macOS and shiny things than actual performance per dollar for their hardware.
This is still despite the massive hatred for recent versions of Windows. Even in that landscape, people are STILL buying PCs due to the lack of competitive or appropriate computer offerings by Apple.
Last edited:
The dislike of Windows isn’t recent, it’s been pretty constant since Windows 3.1 at the very least. It just never caused a majority of people to abandon the Windows universe because there wasn’t anything that was drop in ready to replace it. People, especially business people, don’t want to learn a new system they want to use it. Apple had the right marketing with the ‘It just works’ they just didn’t back it up with the software and hardware required to get businesses to change. Not that this would have been easy. Companies had spent, intentionally and unintentionally, a lot of money getting people trained to use software like Excel and Power Point and didn’t want to throw that knowledge away. And Apple never seriously tried to get into engineering software like CAD and solid modeling. Most businesses wanted a single OS if they were large enough to require their own IT department. Apple may have had better software in some fields but the Windows universe had similar software and a much wider computer source. Didn’t like Dell? Go to Sony or Acer or HP. If you don’t like Apple hardware you’re out of luck, you don’t have other computer suppliers to go to. And most companies don’t want to mess with any Frankentosh computers that have no official support from anyone.
Want a desktop Windows machine but don't like the Surface Studio? Pick something else from the hundreds of PC suppliers out there, assemble one yourself, or go to a company who will build one to spec. You'll be lucky to find any ultra-slim all-in-one with an upgradeable GPU but there's a whole spectrum of desktop systems from floor-standing, water-cooled towers to compact desktop systems that can still accommodate a half-length PCIe GPU. Want a PC laptop but don't like the Surface Book (take it from me - nice idea but too much to go wrong) or the Surface Laptop With A Carpet On The Keyboard? Likewise - everything from mini convertibles that run full Winodws to chunky Gaming Laptops/Mobile Workstations that are ideal if you just need to shuttle them between desks.
Want a desktop Mac but don't want an iMac/iMac Pro? Tough. There used to be alternatives - like the Mac Pro Cheesegrater - but they were allowed to wither and die. OK, if the GPU is the issue then there's TB3 external GPU enclosures that can take the card of your choice... which can't then drive the display built into the iMac. Magical. Apple are never going to be able to offer the variety available to Windows, but even an up-to-date, high-end Mac Mini would make more sense with an eGPU.
Anyway, the potential customers for the Surface Studio are the ones that would otherwise be looking at a large Wacom Cintiq LCD tablet that would cost $1000+ over the price of an iMac while rendering the iMac screen redundant. For them, the unique ergonomics could outweight the mediocre CPU/GPU specs, which are probably good enough to run painting/CAD software. If that were my main use case, I'd have bought one by now - Apple have nothing to compare.
Meanwhile Microsoft can afford to produce niche/concept products like the studio because they still get a rake-off from every boring mini-tower or basic laptop sold by hundreds of PC makers. Heck, they even make money selling Office to Mac users who need to exchange documents with the rest of the world (anyway, Office is the worst Word Processor/Spreadsheet package... except for all of the competition).
You are imagining the dislike of Windows.
Mac forums are an echo chamber.
A lot of the die-hard enthusiasts became embittered when Microsoft shipped bad OSes that you were forced to buy because of their market position.
It never occurred to them that Microsoft could get a new CEO, do an about-face, and start shipping really, really good software.
Since the 90's, most of the world has used Windows. (MacOS has single-digit marketshare.)
And most Windows users are satisfied.
The "everyone hates Windows, Windows is bad software" meme just isn't true the way Mac boosters wish it was true.
I have strongly disliked and detested Windows since version 3.11. I've tried - to sometimes lesser and sometimes greater extent - all their iterations since... Windows 95, 98, 2000, Windows 7, 8, and 10. Windows 10 is the first version I've used, somewhat extensively, that I can honestly say is actually acceptably good in my personal opinion (the Pro version, I can't speak for Home), particularly after installing the Windows Linux subsystem.
Would I ever use it as my primary OS on PC hardware? No, my choice there is Linux. But when I'm forced to use it for work purposes I no longer want to chuck the PC out of the nearest window. I, of course, accept that other people's mileage may vary considerably.
If Windows 10 can get this kind of praise from a Linux black belt who spends time on Mac forums, what other proof does anyone need that it's good now?
Definitely not perfect, but defintely good.
Meanwhile OS X continues to also be not perfect but good.
They are different, with each having definite strengths and weaknesses, but we are FAR from the days of OSX being the "it just works" computer, and anything with an MS badge crashing constantly and being full of viruses.
In fact those days are literally 20 years ago now. A lot has changed.
I actually like the Pro edition of Windows 10. It gets the job done well enough for me. Plus, I like Windows File Explorer better than macOS Finder.
During the 7± years you owned your early 2011 MacBook Pro, did you encounter any frustration with being restricted to USB 2.0 and FW800 speeds or having to choose the more expensive Thunderbolt option, if it was available? I have a Late 2011 15" MacBook Pro and that was really the only thing that drove me nuts, making me wish I had waited for a Mid-2012 to get USB 3.0. Or were you able to find an Express Card that gave you what you needed?
Hahaha, I am certainly no Linux black belt. Up until fairly recently I was a pretty hardcore Mac guy. It just so happens that my experience with OS X's Unix base since the first public beta has made transitioning my knowledge to Linux pretty easy and, for my purposes, it is a far more preferable choice over Windows.
But, yes, I have to admit that Windows is certainly a fairly good operating system these days.
Fun anecdote: I spent an hour last week removing obtrusive adware from a colleague's infested MacBook. And that wasn't the first time I've dealt with that on what I also used to believe was immune to such shenanigans.
[doublepost=1529952774][/doublepost]
It is unfortunate that Apple never evolved OS X's Finder very much. In some ways, I still consider Finder to have been better on System 7.x.
I don't think Macs were ever immune to adware or viruses. If they were, you wouldn't have Norton on there. It's just that people never targeted them considering the user base is a blip compared to PC.
You’re not alone.
Thanks to lazy professors (who are using six year old lessons with questionable links), my 2013 iMac and Time Machine drive were slammed by a virus and neither has properly recovered even after the anti virus software removed the virus. I have been having problems with this 2013 iMac since Yosemite, but it is awful on Sierra and worse now because of that hit.
Have now decided to sacrifice my crappy Acer laptop to this university for future classes, and hope Apple get their stuff together when I have enough $ to replace this iMac. With what is anyone’s guess, but I hope the high mucky muck loop de loops at Apple Park are serious about getting on the case with hardware and software.
It is so embarrassing...and frustrating.
You quote ONE product, in the non Apple world there are many options.
Tell me which Apple laptop can have more RAM or a bigger SSD or even the battery replaced by the average consumer.
And apart from the now ancient MacPro, which Apple product can have its GPU upgraded ?
I write this on my 27" 5K iMac, I have been a Mac user for over 30 years. It is Apples design choices which are forcing me to swap platforms.
[doublepost=1529960461][/doublepost]
I never ddi huge file transfers on my laptop so it never bothered me. What I did have was a USB->Serial adaptor for running diagnostics on various equipment. Doing Data recovery on crashed hard drives was always done on my desktop machine, it could be left running for days if needed. I still used FW800 for the odd job.
My Mac mini at home has a 12TB RAID connected via USB3.
reply to the entire page
what the heck am i supposed to do with the iMac G4 sitting downstairs?
the motherboard needs to be replaced, faulty graphic card.
an hour project after I replace the motherboard.
then what?
I guess i can use my HP lazerjet 32 printer i love, canon scanLDE 30 i can still install without praying the downloads work and then photoshop some artwork i recent did this year, if my CS3 is still valid. iTunes should be able to play music downstairs and those speakers are really good!
i might try to search something online but not too many web designers code for that era anymore, fox even says so.
so i walk away from the igloo thinking maybe during the winter i can might fix that up.
meanwhile todays project was try to figure out why the magsafe adapter for the MacBook Air suddenly stopped working at 6:34 saturday nite.
i took the adapter apart, ran some voltage tests, nothing is wrong, it is generating power, but not to the MBA.
mind you i did this while the spain-morrocco match was playing on the iPad. my concentration was on the power adapter not the qualifying match. i just purchased the adapter brand new in 2015 around this time of the year to replace the original one.
the adapter works......it's fine, not signs of fray, burn loose wires....the adaptor just won't work.
why am i doing this?
It boggles the mind that everything i purchased this century works, and if needed can get fixed by joe the mechanic, hank the handyman, tiffany the tailor and percy the proctologist.
except my apple products.
why?
perhaps joe, hank, tiffany and percy are not billionaires i guess.
what the heck am i supposed to do with the iMac G4 sitting downstairs?
the motherboard needs to be replaced, faulty graphic card.
an hour project after I replace the motherboard.
then what?
I guess i can use my HP lazerjet 32 printer i love, canon scanLDE 30 i can still install without praying the downloads work and then photoshop some artwork i recent did this year, if my CS3 is still valid. iTunes should be able to play music downstairs and those speakers are really good!
i might try to search something online but not too many web designers code for that era anymore, fox even says so.
so i walk away from the igloo thinking maybe during the winter i can might fix that up.
meanwhile todays project was try to figure out why the magsafe adapter for the MacBook Air suddenly stopped working at 6:34 saturday nite.
i took the adapter apart, ran some voltage tests, nothing is wrong, it is generating power, but not to the MBA.
mind you i did this while the spain-morrocco match was playing on the iPad. my concentration was on the power adapter not the qualifying match. i just purchased the adapter brand new in 2015 around this time of the year to replace the original one.
the adapter works......it's fine, not signs of fray, burn loose wires....the adaptor just won't work.
why am i doing this?
It boggles the mind that everything i purchased this century works, and if needed can get fixed by joe the mechanic, hank the handyman, tiffany the tailor and percy the proctologist.
except my apple products.
why?
perhaps joe, hank, tiffany and percy are not billionaires i guess.