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Popular Reddit App Apollo Would Need to Pay $20 Million Per Year Under New API Pricing

I've been using Apollo since day 1 of buying my iPhone 12 Pro Max but when talk of them charging came up about a month ago I knew it was dead. Started using the official app and honestly dont hate it but I know I'm in the minority. The ads don't bother me.

Hopefully once Reddit kills itself off there is an alternative place to go. Reddit can be awful a lot of the time but still has a lot of useful communities and information.
 
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riverfreak said:
Why should API access be free? A free tier is 1000 requests a month, not 50 million.

Is anyone here in a position to judge what a fair rate is? Please share your rationale.

And for those offended by Reddit tracking, are you also paid members of MR?
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I am currently paying for Ivory, Apollo, Macrumours and Ars Technica. I am more disappointed than angry. I will definitely be using Reddit a lot less without Apollo (or maybe just stop using it altogether). To me, it’s not just the site, but how I interface with it that makes the difference (similar to why I prefer Apple products over android or windows devices, even though they largely do the same thing).

Oh well, one less way of killing time in the toilet for me.
 
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gaximus said:
I know people love Reddit, but I’ve never been able to get into it, I absolutely hate being asked every time I visit a link if I want to continue on safari or chrome. I would be using the browser I’m using if I didn’t want to use it.
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That’s actually google’s fault. AMP links. You can fix it with a Safari extension like Amplosion
 
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riverfreak said:
Maybe the problem isn’t that Reddit is charging too much but that the developer of Apollo is charging too little and relying on taking things for free, and that people are too big of cheapos to pay for what they use.

How many of the complainers are paying users of Apollo?
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There are many(!) paying Apollo users simply because the plain Reddit experience is so bad.

How many, I don't know.

But, despite asking very little per user, the devs seem to be making a living off Apollo and have plenty of time to take requests and make the Apollo version of Reddit exactly how most Reddit users want it.

There's really been a lot of support for Christian Selig over the years as Reddit's number of users has gone up.

I do genuinely think Apollo and other third party Reddit clients are responsible for a healthy portion of Reddit's growth.

Anyone who thinks the difference between Apollo and plain Reddit web or the official Reddit app hasn't been using Reddit a lot.
 
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TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️ said:
Dang! That sucks! Reddit might be next to be shut down from the social media platform.

Someone come up with $20 Million Dollars quick to save them.
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Even if the App dev could come up with $20 million.... I wouldn't pay if I were him, since what Reddit is doing is extortion and anti-competitive behavior.
 
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I’m not a huge Reddit person but Apollo made me enjoy it. If I had to go back to using the Reddit app or worse Reddit in the browser. I’d honestly stop using it.
 
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riverfreak said:
Is anyone here in a position to judge what a fair rate is? Please share your rationale.
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From the developer:

As for the pricing, despite claims that it would be based in reality, it seems anything but. Less than 2 years ago they said they crossed $100M in quarterly revenue for the first time ever, if we assume despite the economic downturn that they’ve managed to do that every single quarter now, and for your best quarter, you’ve doubled it to $200M. Let’s also be generous and go far, far above industry estimates and say you made another $50M in Reddit Premium subscriptions. That’s $550M in revenue per year, let’s say an even $600M. In 2019, they said they hit 430 million monthly active users, and to also be generous, let’s say they haven’t added a single active user since then (if we do revenue-per-user calculations, the more users, the less revenue each user would contribute). So at generous estimates of $600M and 430M monthly active users, that’s $1.40 per user per year, or $0.12 monthly. These own numbers they’ve given are also seemingly inline with industry estimates as well.

For Apollo, the average user uses 344 requests daily, or 10.6K monthly. With the proposed API pricing, the average user in Apollo would cost $2.50, which is is 20x higher than a generous estimate of what each users brings Reddit in revenue.
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So, there you have it. Let's assume they can somehow double the revenue per user, that would still mean their price is 10x higher than "fair". And this still doesn't take into account that the whole platform is what it is today in very large parts due to third party tools and clients and also in the future would grow faster with a bigger ecosystem (think of it as a reseller program, third-party price should be lower, not higher).

Third-party apps also bear some of the hosting costs for content. API-only users are therefore cheaper for them than users who use the full products. So, again, if anything, thirt-party price should be lower per user.

They also said they want to allow certain content (Not safe for work) only on their official clients. NSFW-related subs are a relatively big part of Reddit that would hence not be available on third-party clients, further diminishing their value.

Given all that and that the original estimates are way too much in their favor to begin with, their price is anywhere between 10-100x too high. The only explanation for such unfair pricing is that they want to kill off third-party clients completely.
 
sjsharksfan12 said:
Why would me posting in one subreddit make me public enemy #1 in another.
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I can see subreddit pairings where denying access to one based on participation in another would be silly, sure, but likewise there's plenty of stuff out there that draws a particularly troublesome crowd. The mods don't necessarily have the time to vet every user's posting history to figure out if they're actually supporting the main talking points of particular subreddits, or just trolling the flat earthers, anti-vaxers and other conspiracy nuts drawn to them.

So yeah, it would be nice if everyone was judged based on their actual actions rather than association, but since that information is available I can see why it would be used as a shortcut. Especially in the more egregious cases.
 
Puonti said:
I can see subreddit pairings where denying access to one based on participation in another would be silly, sure, but likewise there's plenty of stuff out there that draws a particularly troublesome crowd. The mods don't necessarily have the time to vet every user's posting history to figure out if they're actually supporting the main talking points of particular subreddits, or just trolling the flat earthers, anti-vaxers and other conspiracy nuts drawn to them.

So yeah, it would be nice if everyone was judged based on their actual actions rather than association, but since that information is available I can see why it would be used as a shortcut. Especially in the more egregious cases.
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Then they shouldn’t be mods if they can’t deal with things on an individual basis of their actions inside that specific subreddit. Guilt by association is not the answer.
 
Reddit website is so crappy right now that I exclusively use it through Apollo both on mobile and desktop. I paid for pro because it has some nice features but I'm not paying monthly subscription for reddit so I guess it's another service I've been using for years I'll leave (after Netflix)
 
It was only a matter of time that Twitter and Reddit killed off the 3rd party apps.
Twitter did it out of the blue, Reddit are doing it under the guise of AI API pricing needs, but still not so subtle.

People on here need to react the same way as when Apple Sherlocks something. 'Ah well, was only a matter of time, shouldn't run an app that can clearly become part of the main service.....'.
 
ChristianSelig said:
Hey all, if you have any questions about this feel free to ask (I'm the Apollo developer).

Been using MacRumors since before I could code so it's always cool to be on the site, wish it was under better circumstances.
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You own the interface to the customer. Do you realise you are in control?
So you can start 'a network of communities where people can dive into their interests, hobbies and passions' and make Apollo its interface.
Find investors (Apollo users will pledge), build a team and thrive.
Make it great for both moderators and users.

Or let Reddit management strangle your current business to death like they are doing right now.
 
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poorcody said:
Did you get the impression they were trying to "price-away" (i.e. eliminate) third-party apps, or are they trying to have revenue match what they are getting with ad impressions on the web and their own app?
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Why just „match“ revenue to other channels (by either forcing them to your own app or the web interface) when you can try increasing it way beyond that?

If I were a PowerPoint slide deck wielding revenue growth consultant or private equity investor for Reddit, why would I anchor my recommended ARPU (average revenue per user) on the measly price Christian Selig charges his customers for Apollo subscriptions today?

It’s only customers’ willingness to pay that limits what we can extract from them. Given the breadth and popularity of Reddit, why can‘t we let other popular online subscriptions services, say Netflix, serve as our anchor?

MacRumors said:
The average Apollo user uses 344 requests per day, which would be priced at $2.50 per mont
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There you go: Let‘s be prudent and double that figure for the higher/more power users among them.
If customers are willing to pay 7-10 dollars a months for Apollo - about the same as for their Netflix subscription - that leaves enough headroom for Christian Selig to have a very profitable business.
 
How the hell does Reddit even make this sort of money? I don’t pay a sub and have virtually nil personal information on there. Where is their revenue coming from?
 
soapropos said:
Reddit clearly learned nothing from Twitter and the death of Tweetbot.
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On the contrary. They are copying directly from the Twitter playbook and their “kill 3rd party apps” strategy.

The way the execs see it: 3rd party apps = missed revenue.
 
Apollo exists because reddit wasn't paying attention. Apollo controls the customer relationship, and reddit has realized that letting others control your customer is a dumb idea.

Now if you want to push back, you can argue that your user base actually contributes to reddit. Your app isn't a parasite, it's actively making reddit better because your users are more engaged and drive more traffic. At that point you're a partner, not a parasite.
 
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If Reddit had any iota of sense, they would hire Apollo’s dev and make Apollo the default iOS client. I can tolerate ads, but I don’t think I would find joy using the stock Reddit app in any capacity.
 
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Abazigal said:
If Reddit had any iota of sense, they would hire Apollo’s dev and make Apollo the default iOS client. I can tolerate ads, but I don’t think I would find joy using the stock Reddit app in any capacity.
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They bought Alien Blue, which I still prefer to Apollo, and killed it in favour of their awful app.

It made me realise Reddit's goal isn't to have a great app, but to have a profitable app.
 
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It would be alright if Reddit cleaned up their website. Have you ever tried viewing a Reddit thread on your iPhone in portrait orientation? It totally breaks the layout, squashing all the words into a tiny thin column.
 
sorgo † said:
Reddit is a cesspool echo chamber. Hopefully it goes the way of the dodo (Twitter) very soon. :)
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Sigh, I ceep saying this: pick your subreddits carefully( pesonally I'm on r/csharp, r/wireguard, r/zfs + a few others, and I've never seen this toxicity) , the defalt main page ( when you are not logged in) is a cesspool and ofc if you head for r/politics or r/religion, yea you are ending up in flameware/astroterfing hell rather quicly
 
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