This is what happens when you develop something without looking at the license first. The same can be said for developers that use commercial game engines, commercial frameworks, etc... Don't write a line of code that depends on APIs whose license is not MIT/BSD/public domain, and you won't have these problems.
Popular Reddit App Apollo Would Need to Pay $20 Million Per Year Under New API Pricing
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Vidd
macrumors 65816
Honestly, I'd love Reddit to fall apart. I miss when the internet was a collection of forums where all voices are equal and discussions could last months or even years, instead of threads where the popular opinions are the only ones made visible and the thread dies within a day.
Reddit lost its collective mind some time after 2016 and if it pulls a Digg, that's fine by me.
Reddit lost its collective mind some time after 2016 and if it pulls a Digg, that's fine by me.
Perfect example.
MLVC
macrumors 68000
Well, that depends. If you're, e.g., the Turkish opposition, you'd be silenced a couple of days before the elections by Musk. You're free as long as Musk deems it okay, he has no issue bowing for authoritarian regimes (but does have an issue with democracies seeing he pulled out of the (for now) voluntary EU regulation on disinformation). Yep, all very "free".
cateye
macrumors 6502a
This is not a reasoned opinion and parrots the sort of nonsense that lead to us paying more for digital music (during the iTunes years) than physical media.
A physical object like the iPhone in your example has a cost. A cost to produce, to ship, to store. It is an object. If I take it, you no longer have it. If I take it for free, you, as a producer, have not been fairy compensated. Digital goods, like access to an API, do not have fixed costs. Serving ten API calls does not cost 10x one API call.
Which is not to say there is zero cost to a company like Reddit (or Twitter, or whomever) for providing access to its API. There are infrastructure and support costs, in addition to managing that API access. No one is arguing, I bet not even the developer of Apollo, that being charged for that access is on its face unfair. What is unfair is charging a usurious price that has no relationship to actual cost, or even reasonable cost.
Look at it this way: Let's say Apple charges $1000 for a fancy new iPhone 37 when you buy it from Apple. But what if Verizon approached Apple and said, "We want to sell your iPhone 37, how much?" and Apple said, "Actually, for you, it's $1500." Would that be fair? Of course not. And in fact, that sort of pricing shenanigan for physical goods is illegal.
What is the fair price for Reddit to charge for API access? I don't claim to know. But charging $20M to Apollo makes it clear Reddit's end goal has nothing to do with equitable pay for access, but rather limiting the marketplace.
Vidd
macrumors 65816
Reddit already bought the better Reddit client and ruined it once before.
They probably have no interest in hiring the Apollo developer since their roadmap is likely more avatar customisations and other such nonsense features.
Well thought out take. The other interesting aspect is yes, Reddit has server costs, development costs and so on, but the content they provide is user-provided, much like Twitter. Everyone contributing is providing free content, on top of providing the ad views.
sjsharksfan12
macrumors 68020
I wish it was like that, but some Reddit subs ban you from their sub for participating in other reddit subs (In my case, a sub they deemed Misinformation). Why would me posting in one subreddit make me public enemy #1 in another. This is where the phrase "stay in your lane" applies.
If they are using my comments they are going to get some dumb as can be AI. All my reddit comments on now on Stable Diffusion asking "why doesn't this work?"
everybodylovesramen
macrumors member
Once Apollo has their API’s cut off - i’m logging back into Reddit on the website to delete my account.
Can we get Digg to reformat and just replace Reddit like it used to?
Can we get Digg to reformat and just replace Reddit like it used to?
cateye
macrumors 6502a
That sucks and is terrible and is essentially a further example of the sort of political narcissism I was decrying. I'm going to assume your specific example is not super common. Or at least, I hope it isn't.
cateye
macrumors 6502a
Great point and one I didn't even address. It makes the idea of enormous sums for API access even more difficult to justify since producer costs are essentially zero. It's all infrastructure costs, which absolutely do not follow anything like the sort of curve that Twitter or Reddit would claim.
sjsharksfan12
macrumors 68020
I would say for a time it was common. Fortunately it only happened to me once, but I know there was like a 2 week span last year where it happened a lot.
urmaster
macrumors member
Thanks for making yourself available to questions, I have 2:
Did Reddit let you know what sort of API usage other apps are seeing or what they consider fair?
How are they measuring api usage, is it hits used against credentials provided? Does that figure match your expectations?
They already charge for their UI that piggybacks on a social network, which is fine - but how far can they stretch it if they keep increasing their fees to match the rising cost of API usage?
As I said, you got many third-party apps that are doing under due to this, they cannot realistically keep charging more because Twitter or Reddit decides on a steep fee increase, only a minority of dedicated users would follow and that's typically not enough for them to survive - worst case, the third-party is forced to rely on ads, which is exactly what their app was supposed to oppose by charging a fee in the first place.
adrianlondon
macrumors 603
I also choose this guy's dead app.
Build your entire business around someone’s else’s business, and this is bound to happen. Sucks for Apollo, but honestly Reddit can do whatever they want.
I learned this the hard way with my first major business when I was 28. The company I was piggybacking off of pulled the plug, it screwed me, and I went through bankruptcy.
I learned this the hard way with my first major business when I was 28. The company I was piggybacking off of pulled the plug, it screwed me, and I went through bankruptcy.
MadDawg2020
macrumors 6502
A ‘lifetime’ user?! LOL
Reddit as a platform has existed for just 17 years - this Apollo app a fraction of that.
I am sure your life will carry on just fine long after Reddit and this app cease to exist.
MadDawg2020
macrumors 6502
Guess you want to go back to BBS on Compuserve or Prodigy then because that was probably the last time profits were not the driving factor.
Once you stay away for a month and come back, it’s so much more horrible-er than when you’re used to it. Like quitting smoking and then smelling your own stanky car.