PowerBooks in Paris?

[yujini]

It wasn't an arguement, It's a fact that happened.
And though people say the stocks have been depleted,
it seems like the 867 combo drive 15inch powerboook is readily available in 1 week if you order it.

17inch, 15inch 867, 12inch seemed to sell fine at my apple edu store. Though I'm sure this is not what apple has been anticipating, it seems like it's being built by order now or at least the new pbooks come out.

 

[SeaFox]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: almost for sure

Originally posted by hose this!
Sure. It's grouped under what might be called the "natural laws of competition". If Intel can't fulfill processor demand, AMD sure as hell will - and they know this.

Uh, no. AMD will not produce Pentium 4's to fill Dell's order. That was my point. They may offer similar Athlons or Durons or whatever. But I doubt that processor will be a pin-for-pin match to the Pentium 4. So Dell will have to redesign motherboards for it. That is why Apple cannot just drop Moto for an IBM G4. They probably had other parts stocked in anticipation of a Moto update, and switching to IBM would have cost them money and time redesigning certain components for a different chip.

Why you're willing to go to such great lengths to defend this Apple policy borders on unquestioning orthodoxy.

Delaying products beyond anticipated launch dates is not Apple Policy. We all know they wanted to release this update sooner. Once again you are holding them responsible for problems beyond their control. And worse you're implying this is some completely normal event like some newbie who's only experience with Apple product launches is 1) G5 dual 2gig delays and 2) This Powerbook update.

Have you or any one you know ever run their own business? If you purport to offer a solution to customers and then can't deliver it, they don't want to hear crap about how it's your supplier's fault or the delivery guys fault or whatever.

Not wanting to hear the truth doesn't change its validity.

It's pretty much your fault and if you run over expected ("expected" and "promised" may draw a distinction in a court of law, but is immaterial in a market) you better tell your customers when they can expect delivery.

You can't offer information that doesn't exist. And maybe Apple doesn't want to say when to expect the new Powerbooks in case things slip again. That would just make people more mad, wouldn't you say?

Apple is a computer company. They're in the business of making computers. An essential part of that business is releasing fresh products in a timely manner, ESPECIALLY when their customers express a great demand for them. The foundation of any good business is delivering products your customers want/need. Lining up their suppliers and partners is Apple's responsibility. The buck stops there. It's not whiny at all that we should hold them ultimately accountable.

Anyone can make mistakes in their supplier chain. Apple isn't infallible in it's decisions, too. That doesn't necessarily mean everything is Apple's fault, though.

I'm afraid we are just going to have to agree to disagree, because I'm tired of typing the same logic over and over again.

 

[the_dalex]

Wow, reading all of those greedy consumer posts really makes me shiver.

Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

APPLE NEVER PROMISED YOU ANYTHING. They did this on purpose so that you wouldn't be pissed off, but you got pissed off anyway. That's your fault for having outrageous self-generated expectations that couldn't be met. Apple's only crime is that they have been promoting and taking orders for the 15-inch Ti Supers and they haven't delivered them in four weeks in my case. Beyond that, any frenzy you worked yourself into is your problem, don't blame Apple. If you absolutely refuse to purchase any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

 

[crees!]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Wow, reading all of those greedy consumer posts really makes me shiver.

Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

APPLE NEVER PROMISED YOU ANYTHING. They did this on purpose so that you wouldn't be pissed off, but you got pissed off anyway. That's your fault for having outrageous self-generated expectations that couldn't be met. Apple's only crime is that they have been promoting and taking orders for the 15-inch Ti Supers and they haven't delivered them in four weeks in my case. Beyond that, any frenzy you worked yourself into is your problem, don't blame Apple. If you absolutely refuse to purchase any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

Well said.

 

[hose this!]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Wow, reading all of those greedy consumer posts really makes me shiver.

Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

APPLE NEVER PROMISED YOU ANYTHING. They did this on purpose so that you wouldn't be pissed off, but you got pissed off anyway. That's your fault for having outrageous self-generated expectations that couldn't be met. Apple's only crime is that they have been promoting and taking orders for the 15-inch Ti Supers and they haven't delivered them in four weeks in my case...

Seems as though some people are a bit too used to bending over.

 

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

THANK YOU!!!

People are saying now they wont buy the soon-to-be-released G4 Powerbooks since they are convinced G5 Powerbooks will come out early next year. What will they say if that doesn't happen? We all were convinced this update was gonna happen three months ago.

 

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by hose this!
Seems as though some people are a bit too used to bending over.

A consumer's strongest means of communicating is with their wallet.

If you are upset by the pace of Apple's hardware development, maybe you should put your money where your mouth is. Buy a Dell laptop now instead of a Powerbook later and stop shouting at the moon.

 

[MasterMac]

Originally posted by SeaFox
We all were convinced this update was gonna happen three months ago.

But this time we're really, really sure

 

[true777]

If you absolutely refuse to purchase any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

But if those greedy consumers stopped complaining..
what would these forums be filled with?

 

[hmmm]

Why can't I check the status of my PB order - it's been 'Open' for 10 days now with still no sign of shipping (hedging my bets they'll release before they ship..) - but as things stand 13:00 CET 14/09/03 - the order status component in the Apple store is down and has been for the last 6 hours - sort it out Apple and put us all out of our missery

 

[MacIke]

Originally posted by SeaFox


A consumer's strongest means of communicating is with their wallet.

If you are upset by the pace of Apple's hardware development, maybe you should put your money where your mouth is. Buy a Dell laptop now instead of a Powerbook later and stop shouting at the moon.

Seafox

The only problem is that buying a Dell will increase the whine buy a factor of 20.

 

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. If you refuse to buy any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

However, some of us have specific needs; in particular I need to upgrade to 15 inch Powerbook with built in bluetooth. No such Mac exists now, so I will wait until one is available.

 

[Potus]

sorry double post

 

[Potus]

Originally posted by the_dalex
Wow, reading all of those greedy consumer posts really makes me shiver.

Despite popular belief, Apple employees do NOT work for you. They offer products for you to purchase, and try to convince you to buy them. They either do it well, or not, and they either succeed, or not. You are not as empowered as you think.

Need a computer RIGHT NOW for work or school purposes? Buy one of the currently available models which will do everything you need, just 10% less efficiently or comfortably than the one that doesn't even exist and hasn't been announced. There will ALWAYS be something better around the corner, and in three years the Powerbook you are complaining about not having now will be very obsolete, and you'll be complaining about something else.

APPLE NEVER PROMISED YOU ANYTHING. They did this on purpose so that you wouldn't be pissed off, but you got pissed off anyway. That's your fault for having outrageous self-generated expectations that couldn't be met. Apple's only crime is that they have been promoting and taking orders for the 15-inch Ti Supers and they haven't delivered them in four weeks in my case. Beyond that, any frenzy you worked yourself into is your problem, don't blame Apple. If you absolutely refuse to purchase any other laptop besides one that hasn't been specced or announced yet, then you really put yourself into a difficult and ridiculous situation, and you sound really idiotic when you complain.

Would you please run for President? You seem to be logical, intelligent, and articulate; qualities sorely lacking in most of your fellow posters. Thank you!

 

[neonart]

Originally posted by matznentosh
However, some of us have specific needs; in particular I need to upgrade to 15 inch Powerbook with built in bluetooth. No such Mac exists now, so I will wait until one is available.

I agree with you that you have a specific "need". But what you want exists.
You can still get a 15" Powerbook and a USB Bluetooth adapter. Sure it's not the nirvana that one can achive with internal BT, but when you had to use a cable box to get cable people dealt with it.
I'm sure there was someone wishing for Zenith or RCA or Sony to meet their "needs" for a cable ready TV- but that did not make them say these companies where horrible.
And I'm not bashing your post- you do have a certain requirement or need for a computer at this point.
I'm simply stating that those who claim Apple is a bad company for not having what they think is nessesary for them in a particular package are not seeing this has and will always happen in technology.

 

[macphoria]

People are saying now they wont buy the soon-to-be-released G4 Powerbooks since they are convinced G5 Powerbooks will come out early next year. What will they say if that doesn't happen? We all were convinced this update was gonna happen three months ago.

If PowerBooks are updated on Tuesday with G4, you can bet G5 PowerBook will not come out for at least 6 months.

But I think better indication of G5 PowerBook's arrival depends on G5 Power Macs. I really think G5 PowerBook will not come out until G5 Power Macs have sufficient lead in processor speed. Slow G4 development and similar processor speed between PowerBooks and Power Macs hurt Power Mac sales in the past. So when we start to see G5 Power Macs get consistent periodical processor update, we'll know G5 PowerBooks will come out.

I think late Summer 2004 is when we'll see G5 PowerBook.

 

[songofthewoods]

Originally posted by macphoria
If PowerBooks are updated on Tuesday with G4, you can bet G5 PowerBook will not come out for at least 6 months.

But I think better indication of G5 PowerBook's arrival depends on G5 Power Macs. I really think G5 PowerBook will not come out until G5 Power Macs have sufficient lead in processor speed. Slow G4 development and similar processor speed between PowerBooks and Power Macs hurt Power Mac sales in the past. So when we start to see G5 Power Macs get consistent periodical processor update, we'll know G5 PowerBooks will come out.

I think late Summer 2004 is when we'll see G5 PowerBook.

Let's put it another way. The G4 powerbooks consume approximately 15 watts of power.....and they get quite hot on your lap. The current G5 machines consume 45 watts of power. There are 9 fans on the G5 to keep it cool....plus, have you seen the heat sink on these things? They are MASSIVE! To use the G5 in a powerbook, Apple will have to figure out a way to cool the G5 CPU in a very tiny enclosure. This is going to be a massive engineering feat........ I wouldn't hold my breath for a G5 powerbook to come out any time soon.

 

[MasterMac]

Originally posted by songofthewoods
Let's put it another way. The G4 powerbooks consume approximately 15 watts of power.....and they get quite hot on your lap. The current G5 machines consume 45 watts of power. There are 9 fans on the G5 to keep it cool....plus, have you seen the heat sink on these things? They are MASSIVE! To use the G5 in a powerbook, Apple will have to figure out a way to cool the G5 CPU in a very tiny enclosure. This is going to be a massive engineering feat........ I wouldn't hold my breath for a G5 powerbook to come out any time soon.

*sigh*

For a while I actually wanted to type up all the things that are wrong with this post, but I'd just be repeating what pleanty of people have already said throughout the numberous PB threads

 

[zync]

Mastermac didn't want to type up why the post was wrong but that doesn't mean I won't

Let's put it another way. The G4 powerbooks consume approximately 15 watts of power.....and they get quite hot on your lap. The current G5 machines consume 45 watts of power. There are 9 fans on the G5 to keep it cool....plus, have you seen the heat sink on these things? They are MASSIVE! To use the G5 in a powerbook, Apple will have to figure out a way to cool the G5 CPU in a very tiny enclosure. This is going to be a massive engineering feat........ I wouldn't hold my breath for a G5 powerbook to come out any time soon.

I don't really know how many times this must be said. Take notice all you new people, read all the posts before yours if you don't want to a. anger people or b. look like an idiot. I myself have already made three of these posts already but four can't hurt.

There is *NO* heat problem with a G5 which would be of lower speed in a laptop. First off, the PPC G4 7455 rev. A processor at 1 GHz runs HOTTER, that means more hot, than a G5 at 1.2 GHz. Secondly, the PM G5 has 9 fans so that it can be QUIET. The fans are low RPM fans, unlike those used to cool PC processors. Not only that, but the PM G5 has 4 thermal zones and (I'm almost positive, though I can't find any info on it on Apple's website) only 1 fan cools each processor. The heatsink is large so that it has more surface area, not because the G5 is hell to cool, but because some of Steve Job's marketing relies on super quiet computers. The larger the heatsink, the less fan power needed to cool, thus facilitating the use of low RPM fans. Get actual facts before you speak and learn that cooling applications in desktops, like large heatsinks, do not necessarily apply to laptops.

 

[songofthewoods]

Re: Mastermac didn't want to type up why the post was wrong but that doesn't mean I won't

Originally posted by zync
I don't really know how many times this must be said. Take notice all you new people, read all the posts before yours if you don't want to a. anger people or b. look like an idiot. I myself have already made three of these posts already but four can't hurt.

There is *NO* heat problem with a G5 which would be of lower speed in a laptop. First off, the PPC G4 7455 rev. A processor at 1 GHz runs HOTTER, that means more hot, than a G5 at 1.2 GHz. Secondly, the PM G5 has 9 fans so that it can be QUIET. The fans are low RPM fans, unlike those used to cool PC processors. Not only that, but the PM G5 has 4 thermal zones and (I'm almost positive, though I can't find any info on it on Apple's website) only 1 fan cools each processor. The heatsink is large so that it has more surface area, not because the G5 is hell to cool, but because some of Steve Job's marketing relies on super quiet computers. The larger the heatsink, the less fan power needed to cool, thus facilitating the use of low RPM fans. Get actual facts before you speak and learn that cooling applications in desktops, like large heatsinks, do not necessarily apply to laptops.

Look, I'm not an Apple engineer so I honestly I can't validate what I wrote.......but I'd also like to think I'm not speaking out of my ass. I can tell you that I have read quite a few articles on-line concerning the PB's, and cooling challenges Apple is going to have with the G5's. Perhaps my information is dated....perhaps it was simply bad. If I can "dig up" any of these articles I'll gladly share them on this board.

 

[songofthewoods]

Re: Re: Mastermac didn't want to type up why the post was wrong but that doesn't mean I won't

Originally posted by songofthewoods
Look, I'm not an Apple engineer so I honestly I can't validate what I wrote.......but I'd also like to think I'm not speaking out of my ass. I can tell you that I have read quite a few articles on-line concerning the PB's, and cooling challenges Apple is going to have with the G5's. Perhaps my information is dated....perhaps it was simply bad. If I can "dig up" any of these articles I'll gladly share them on this board.

Still looking for some of those articles. Here is one from www.lowendmacs.com.

One more thing. I have no desire to "piss people off" nor do I want them to "think I'm an idiot". I have been "reading the other posts before mine" on this board and 2 or 3 others. As a matter of fact I've read hundreds of posts up here over the past few weeks. I can't say I've read them all, after all........I do have a life. The response from "Zync" to my initial statement is was arrogant, especially considering this is a RUMOR board. Not one of you up here is an Apple engineer nor can any of you can claim you know exactly what's going on with the PB's. You people need a life. Geez.... I've seen more bull**** spread around up here in the past few weeks than on any other board, and then you jump my ass for making reference to the article below.

Go stick your heads in the sand!

From www.lowendmac.com:

On the heat issue, Smith notes that Motorola claims the new chip consumes 16.6W at 1.3 GHz, compared to the current 7455's 15W at 1_GHz, so it will certainly not improve the heat issue. For comparison, a G3 750fx chip running at 800 MHz draws only 3.6 watts, or a projected 5 watts at 1_GHz (not yet marketed), which is one reason why I contend that the G3 is still the best PowerPC chip for laptops if you don't need the AltiVec horsepower of the G4.

IBM is said to be working an a G3-class processor with AltiVec, but it remains to be seen whether it will offer any power economy advantages over the Motorola chips.

However, the G5 processor used in the new Power Mac towers introduced this week consumes a whopping 42W at 1.8 GHz, making those machines' elaborate nine-fan computer-regulated cooling systems obligatory, and their resemblance to portable space heaters is more than a whimsical observation.

On the basis of that level of power-sucking and heat generation, I would suggest that G5-based laptops are an extremely unlikely prospect any time in the foreseeable future.

Tony Smith contends that the 7457 remains the most likely processor candidate for the 15.4" PowerBooks expected to be rolled out later this summer.

 

[zync]

Re: Re: Re: Mastermac didn't want to type up why the post was wrong but that doesn't mean I won't

Originally posted by songofthewoods
Still looking for some of those articles. Here is one from www.lowendmacs.com.

One more thing. I have no desire to "piss people off" nor do I want them to "think I'm an idiot". I have been "reading the other posts before mine" on this board and 2 or 3 others. As a matter of fact I've read hundreds of posts up here over the past few weeks. I can't say I've read them all, after all........I do have a life. The response from "Zync" to my initial statement is was arrogant, especially considering this is a RUMOR board. Not one of you up here is an Apple engineer nor can any of you can claim you know exactly what's going on with the PB's. You people need a life. Geez.... I've seen more bull**** spread around up here in the past few weeks than on any other board, and then you jump my ass for making reference to the article below.

Go stick your heads in the sand!

From www.lowendmac.com:

On the heat issue, Smith notes that Motorola claims the new chip consumes 16.6W at 1.3 GHz, compared to the current 7455's 15W at 1_GHz, so it will certainly not improve the heat issue. For comparison, a G3 750fx chip running at 800 MHz draws only 3.6 watts, or a projected 5 watts at 1_GHz (not yet marketed), which is one reason why I contend that the G3 is still the best PowerPC chip for laptops if you don't need the AltiVec horsepower of the G4.

IBM is said to be working an a G3-class processor with AltiVec, but it remains to be seen whether it will offer any power economy advantages over the Motorola chips.

However, the G5 processor used in the new Power Mac towers introduced this week consumes a whopping 42W at 1.8 GHz, making those machines' elaborate nine-fan computer-regulated cooling systems obligatory, and their resemblance to portable space heaters is more than a whimsical observation.

On the basis of that level of power-sucking and heat generation, I would suggest that G5-based laptops are an extremely unlikely prospect any time in the foreseeable future.

Tony Smith contends that the 7457 remains the most likely processor candidate for the 15.4" PowerBooks expected to be rolled out later this summer.

I'm sorry if I sounded "arrogant" to you, for that was least on my mind. I meant to inform and I guess my recent anger with continuous posts like "the G5 is waaaay to hot" or "man look at that heatsink and the nine fans" angered me. I'm sorry if that was passed onto you, though my first statement was a general statement to everyone and not just you. I have a life as well, but I read fast and when I have nothing better to do. I'm a full time student and between classes I have time to read and respond to these posts, and reading 10+ pages of responses isn't that much when you read it as it's being posted to. Just because someone has read every post doesn't mean they have no life. So there we go, we're even. We both attacked each other and we've both had a rubuttal. I'm sorry if I have offended you in any way, I'm just really anxious to see my new powerbook be presented, whether it be G4 (most likely of course) or G5.

 

[schalliol]

Re: PowerBooks in Paris?

Originally posted by Macrumors and side ports.

They better not make this stupid engineering move!!!!! They totally get in the way on your lap, how annoying, the back is good for a desk purpose and with the angle you put the display at anyway, you create room at the back.

 

[cb911]

Re: Re: PowerBooks in Paris?

Originally posted by schalliol


They better not make this stupid engineering move!!!!! They totally get in the way on your lap, how annoying, the back is good for a desk purpose and with the angle you put the display at anyway, you create room at the back.

yeah, i'm not too crazy about the side ports... if you were using it with a peripheral on your lap, from the side it would be easy to snap off in the port. but Apple knows best.