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PowerBooks on Feb 2nd?
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Hi Tom,
Unfortunately I don't have a good answer for you, other than to say that twice as much L2 cache would make for a much faster chip for many, many activities. Whether it's enough to make up for the lack of an L3 cache, I can't say. I think that it would have a fair bit to do with what you use your computer for...
Now, not to nit-pick, but I think you meant 1MB of L3 cache, 256KB of L2 cache on the older PB, vs. 512KB of L2 cache on the newer PB...
Cheers
3/16/04?
So i'm kinda new to macs and according to what everyone else is saying there is about a 6 month turn around for new models or revisions on these computers. So i'm just kind of curious if this is what normally happens then why was there so much hype for a feb 2/3rd date? I mean I know anything is possible with apple, but I'm curious if there were actually signs pointing to new books other than just some wishful thinking?
Just like others I've got my eye on a new powerbook and I will wait for the next revisions since I'm not in any hurry. Does anyone think the next revision will come on or before Tuesday March 16th? Just a thought I've been having since that will be the 6 month date.
So i'm kinda new to macs and according to what everyone else is saying there is about a 6 month turn around for new models or revisions on these computers. So i'm just kind of curious if this is what normally happens then why was there so much hype for a feb 2/3rd date? I mean I know anything is possible with apple, but I'm curious if there were actually signs pointing to new books other than just some wishful thinking?
Just like others I've got my eye on a new powerbook and I will wait for the next revisions since I'm not in any hurry. Does anyone think the next revision will come on or before Tuesday March 16th? Just a thought I've been having since that will be the 6 month date.
L3 cache
Benchmark tests have shown that the new 15" Al and 12" Al 1GHz machines are quite a bit faster than 15" TiBooks (1GHz). The TiBooks had L3 cache and 256k L2, while the new AlBooks only have the 512k L2. I guess this show they are faster (even though there's also faster RAM to take into consideration).
It woudln't surprise me if the next PowerBook revision would see the return of L3 cache, but still with 512k L2, using the 7457. I think supply issues of enough of those processors (as opposed to the L3-cache-less 7447s) might have led Apple to drop the L3 cache. Let's just hope that if it returns, they give little 12" Al L3 too...
Release dates
16th September was the last time the PowerBooks got updated. This means that we may not see an update for a while yet. However, no-one can ever be sure, and sometimes updates come within a few months. Rumours from reputable sites such as this come from insider sources, leaks, people willing to flirt with non-disclosure agreements, etc. I guess some of it is wishfull thinking from some sites to generate interest. So far, there have been no updates since MacWorld SF a month ago. Tuesdays are usually the magical day for updates but nothing so far despite several mourmourings of Power Mac and PowerBook updates. Don't expect G5 PBs this time around though.
BTW, I guess, following on from my earlier post, that my gut was wrong ! Oh well, we could all just hope for the 9th!
Benchmark tests have shown that the new 15" Al and 12" Al 1GHz machines are quite a bit faster than 15" TiBooks (1GHz). The TiBooks had L3 cache and 256k L2, while the new AlBooks only have the 512k L2. I guess this show they are faster (even though there's also faster RAM to take into consideration).
It woudln't surprise me if the next PowerBook revision would see the return of L3 cache, but still with 512k L2, using the 7457. I think supply issues of enough of those processors (as opposed to the L3-cache-less 7447s) might have led Apple to drop the L3 cache. Let's just hope that if it returns, they give little 12" Al L3 too...
Release dates
16th September was the last time the PowerBooks got updated. This means that we may not see an update for a while yet. However, no-one can ever be sure, and sometimes updates come within a few months. Rumours from reputable sites such as this come from insider sources, leaks, people willing to flirt with non-disclosure agreements, etc. I guess some of it is wishfull thinking from some sites to generate interest. So far, there have been no updates since MacWorld SF a month ago. Tuesdays are usually the magical day for updates but nothing so far despite several mourmourings of Power Mac and PowerBook updates. Don't expect G5 PBs this time around though.
BTW, I guess, following on from my earlier post, that my gut was wrong
! Oh well, we could all just hope for the 9th!Re: 3/16/04?
<shrug> Ever since one of the guys at IBM made a claim that there's no reason why they can't get a lower-power, G5 processor into a laptop - people have been guessing at dates for Powerbook updates.
If you're in no hurry, then sure - just wait and see what rolls around next. It's all speculation with Apple, but from watching what they did with the G4 processors in their desktop line in the past (and watching how speed increases have been handled so far on the Powerbook line), it's possible to make some fairly decent guesses at things.
1. We know the G4 processor never made it above 1.42Ghz in a PowerMac, so it's a fair bet to say it won't do so in a Powerbook either.
2. With the current Powerbook 17" already running with a G4 at 1.33Ghz, that means there's not much room left to grow without going to the G5.
3. More of a "hunch" here, but seeing as Apple never made a PowerMac that ran at 1.33Ghz (they skipped right from 1.25Ghz to 1.42Ghz), the Powerbook at 1.33Ghz was probably a compromise made due to cooling issues.
4. Taking points 1-3 into consideration, Apple can't go any further with the high end Powerbook 17" without redesigning the cooling for the processor, and incrementally bumping it up to 1.42Ghz, or just waiting and making the next release a G5 of some sort.
Personally, I'd say that effort to redesign the 17" PB just to squeeze another .09Ghz out of it would be a waste. If Apple feels the need to refresh the product line before they're ready to release G5 versions to the public, they'll probably just bump up the speed of the 12" PowerBook (possibly so it matches the 15" speed?). They've currently got themselves into a situation where many people can't really justify a small Powerbook instead of a fully loaded iBook anyway. Adding some CPU speed to the 12" might work nicely for them.
<shrug> Ever since one of the guys at IBM made a claim that there's no reason why they can't get a lower-power, G5 processor into a laptop - people have been guessing at dates for Powerbook updates.
If you're in no hurry, then sure - just wait and see what rolls around next. It's all speculation with Apple, but from watching what they did with the G4 processors in their desktop line in the past (and watching how speed increases have been handled so far on the Powerbook line), it's possible to make some fairly decent guesses at things.
1. We know the G4 processor never made it above 1.42Ghz in a PowerMac, so it's a fair bet to say it won't do so in a Powerbook either.
2. With the current Powerbook 17" already running with a G4 at 1.33Ghz, that means there's not much room left to grow without going to the G5.
3. More of a "hunch" here, but seeing as Apple never made a PowerMac that ran at 1.33Ghz (they skipped right from 1.25Ghz to 1.42Ghz), the Powerbook at 1.33Ghz was probably a compromise made due to cooling issues.
4. Taking points 1-3 into consideration, Apple can't go any further with the high end Powerbook 17" without redesigning the cooling for the processor, and incrementally bumping it up to 1.42Ghz, or just waiting and making the next release a G5 of some sort.
Personally, I'd say that effort to redesign the 17" PB just to squeeze another .09Ghz out of it would be a waste. If Apple feels the need to refresh the product line before they're ready to release G5 versions to the public, they'll probably just bump up the speed of the 12" PowerBook (possibly so it matches the 15" speed?). They've currently got themselves into a situation where many people can't really justify a small Powerbook instead of a fully loaded iBook anyway. Adding some CPU speed to the 12" might work nicely for them.
you [people] make good points by suggesting the presence of a G5 powerbook just around the corner. however, other research and speculation up to this point indicates that G5 powerbooks shouldn't be expected this calendar year.
i'm not sure what to think!
i'm not sure what to think!
G5 PB
I'm a new member, hope this reaches the thread it should reach. I am one step away from buying a 17" 1.33 PB, but am having second thoughts with all this G5 PB comming this year. Even if it is released after september, I am whilling to wait, BUT ANY IDEA ON HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST???
By the way, Mac User since 1995, currently iBook 800, iMac 15" Flat, severel iMac at Business.
I'm a new member, hope this reaches the thread it should reach. I am one step away from buying a 17" 1.33 PB, but am having second thoughts with all this G5 PB comming this year. Even if it is released after september, I am whilling to wait, BUT ANY IDEA ON HOW MUCH IT WOULD COST???
By the way, Mac User since 1995, currently iBook 800, iMac 15" Flat, severel iMac at Business.
G5 PowerBook - When and How Much?
collectively HOPE it's just around the corner.
"This Calendar Year", well... being totally realistic, I kind of doubt it.
But, it would be sooooo nice.
BUT then add some serious green to max out the RAM, replace the tortoise with a hare HD, $350 for AppleCare, and a few nickels for specially discounted software at time of purchase, God willing.
Save them Franklins, about 40 to 50 of them.
If you stop smokin', drinkin', chasin' skirts, and get another part-time job, you just might me ready by release date in 2005...
If that's too depressing, you could tide yourself over between now and then with a super little G4 iBook (which way outsell PB, are far more popular, and reasonably priced too!)
Or, you could guess which Donkey or Elephant we should vote into the White House so our Tax Refund in early 2005 will hopefully provide us with the wherewithal to buy another Apple...
Yes, we want a G5 PB so bad we can taste it andOriginally posted by michaelrjohnson
... arrival of a G5 powerbook just around the corner.
However, other research and speculation up to this point indicate that
G5 powerbooks should NOT be expected this calendar year.
collectively HOPE it's just around the corner.
"This Calendar Year", well... being totally realistic, I kind of doubt it.
But, it would be sooooo nice.
Sure, a good historical estimation would probably range between $2,999 and $3,499 for the 15" and 17" PB, less for the 12" depending on SuperDrive or Combo, and other configurations.
BUT then add some serious green to max out the RAM, replace the tortoise with a hare HD, $350 for AppleCare, and a few nickels for specially discounted software at time of purchase, God willing.
Save them Franklins, about 40 to 50 of them.
If you stop smokin', drinkin', chasin' skirts, and get another part-time job, you just might me ready by release date in 2005...
If that's too depressing, you could tide yourself over between now and then with a super little G4 iBook (which way outsell PB, are far more popular, and reasonably priced too!)
Or, you could guess which Donkey or Elephant we should vote into the White House so our Tax Refund in early 2005 will hopefully provide us with the wherewithal to buy another Apple...
Attachments
The quality on the present design is so poor, I for one, am going to wait until the ones from Quanta are released. There's not a lot they can do in terms of speed until the G5's are released. The G4 never got over 1.4 mhz and it was overclocked even then. The bus is too slow on the G4's. But there are a couple of things they could do to give it a modest speed boost such as equipping them with faster hard drives (the 4200 rpms are just way too slow) and they could use faster video cards, ie 128 ram memory. Faster ram would help too but that can't happen until they get a faster frontside bus on the G4. However, a larger cache would help.
You're forgetting that all that "faster" stuff means a huge battery too. Or a hour of battery life with the current battery.
The G4 is a great, superb chip for the PowerBook line. Fast and resonably energy effeicient.
just got my feb3 made pb15
just received the pb15 in lightning quick two days from Taiwan to Toronto. The build is impeccable, even though there's no hardware upgrade in any means. The ilife'04 is included seperately in a disk, and this is huge for me. No latch or the close gap problem, no dead pixel, no white spot or uneven lighting, no overheating, as this notebook seems to function perfectly. Wut can I say, the 15" widescreen is the BEST!!
just received the pb15 in lightning quick two days from Taiwan to Toronto. The build is impeccable, even though there's no hardware upgrade in any means. The ilife'04 is included seperately in a disk, and this is huge for me. No latch or the close gap problem, no dead pixel, no white spot or uneven lighting, no overheating, as this notebook seems to function perfectly. Wut can I say, the 15" widescreen is the BEST!!
Re: Re: 3/16/04?
[QUOTES] SNIP
Personally, I'd say that effort to redesign the 17" PB just to squeeze another .09Ghz out of it would be a waste. If Apple feels the need to refresh the product line before they're ready to release G5 versions to the public, they'll probably just bump up the speed of the 12" PowerBook (possibly so it matches the 15" speed?). They've currently got themselves into a situation where many people can't really justify a small Powerbook instead of a fully loaded iBook anyway. Adding some CPU speed to the 12" might work nicely for them. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree, speed hike is unlikely until G5 for 17". 12" definetly has some wriggle room if they can squeeze some more speed and a better graphics card in it. Illuminated keyboard would be fab and distignuish it further from the iBooks.
I do wonder if the 17" and possible 15" might see an iSight camera built into the hinge or something facing inward when the screens opened up, no expense spared sort of feature in a tweak to the current design.
A price drop would be nice as well...
[QUOTES] SNIP
Personally, I'd say that effort to redesign the 17" PB just to squeeze another .09Ghz out of it would be a waste. If Apple feels the need to refresh the product line before they're ready to release G5 versions to the public, they'll probably just bump up the speed of the 12" PowerBook (possibly so it matches the 15" speed?). They've currently got themselves into a situation where many people can't really justify a small Powerbook instead of a fully loaded iBook anyway. Adding some CPU speed to the 12" might work nicely for them. [/B][/QUOTE]
I agree, speed hike is unlikely until G5 for 17". 12" definetly has some wriggle room if they can squeeze some more speed and a better graphics card in it. Illuminated keyboard would be fab and distignuish it further from the iBooks.
I do wonder if the 17" and possible 15" might see an iSight camera built into the hinge or something facing inward when the screens opened up, no expense spared sort of feature in a tweak to the current design.
A price drop would be nice as well...
Re: Re: Re: 3/16/04?
And there's no harm in Apple silently putting a 1.42 GHz in the 17"?
The problem with that is that so camera-sensitive places would prohibit PowerBooks from being taken in.
And there's no harm in Apple silently putting a 1.42 GHz in the 17"?
Re: Re: Re: Re: 3/16/04?
This would definitely be true in my case. Where I work you cannot have cell phones or PDAs in most areas. In the least restrictive areas you can have a cell phone, but it must not have a camera or any kind of voice recording feature.
As far as a PB update, I hope there is one coming within the next 5 weeks. I will be authorized for an interest-free computer loan from my company next week. Then, I will have 30 days to make a purchase. Hopefully, I will be buying a 15" PB 1.33.
Hickman
This would definitely be true in my case. Where I work you cannot have cell phones or PDAs in most areas. In the least restrictive areas you can have a cell phone, but it must not have a camera or any kind of voice recording feature.
As far as a PB update, I hope there is one coming within the next 5 weeks. I will be authorized for an interest-free computer loan from my company next week. Then, I will have 30 days to make a purchase. Hopefully, I will be buying a 15" PB 1.33.
Hickman
price drop in special deals section?
Am I in need of eye check up or do I see an updated Special Deals section on the apple store site where the powerbook g4 referbs have price drops?
if this is so.. then perhaps maybe we can indeed expect price drop on the new ones next week?
--------------------
"Im just the same as all the rest I've been tryin to throw my arms around the world" -U2
http://www.bilvox.com
Am I in need of eye check up or do I see an updated Special Deals section on the apple store site where the powerbook g4 referbs have price drops?
if this is so.. then perhaps maybe we can indeed expect price drop on the new ones next week?
--------------------
"Im just the same as all the rest I've been tryin to throw my arms around the world" -U2
http://www.bilvox.com
No, they pretty much look the same
I've been looking at 12" and 15" refurbs as options, and I don't think the prices have budged there. Don't know about the 17" though.
I've been looking at 12" and 15" refurbs as options, and I don't think the prices have budged there. Don't know about the 17" though.
No educational discount on already discounted products.
Apple rarely (never!) combines discounts.
Besides, Apple sets specific price amounts for a product as its price, whether in the Apple Store, the Discount Store, or as an Educational Discount price, not as a percentage OFF where ever you find the product you want.
Even at an Apple Retail Store when they have a 10% off SALE, it does not apply to an Educational Discount price, but it may apply to an in-store marked down price on "Refreshed" or "Refurbished" items.
But, you can always ask.
Do not think so.
Apple rarely (never!) combines discounts.
Besides, Apple sets specific price amounts for a product as its price, whether in the Apple Store, the Discount Store, or as an Educational Discount price, not as a percentage OFF where ever you find the product you want.
Even at an Apple Retail Store when they have a 10% off SALE, it does not apply to an Educational Discount price, but it may apply to an in-store marked down price on "Refreshed" or "Refurbished" items.
But, you can always ask.
Re: No educational discount on already discounted products.
Heads up! The educational prices on discount items are further discounted...
Cheers!
[Edit] On closer inspection, they don't do it for all products in the discount store. So, some have it some don't...
PS: Anyone know why those come in as links and not images, even though I used the [ IMG ][ /IMG ] tags? [/Edit]
Originally posted by MacRAND
Do not think so.
Apple rarely (never!) combines discounts.
Besides, Apple sets specific price amounts for a product as its price, whether in the Apple Store, the Discount Store, or as an Educational Discount price, not as a percentage OFF where ever you find the product you want.
Even at an Apple Retail Store when they have a 10% off SALE, it does not apply to an Educational Discount price, but it may apply to an in-store marked down price on "Refreshed" or "Refurbished" items.
But, you can always ask.
Heads up! The educational prices on discount items are further discounted...
Cheers!
[Edit] On closer inspection, they don't do it for all products in the discount store. So, some have it some don't...
PS: Anyone know why those come in as links and not images, even though I used the [ IMG ][ /IMG ] tags? [/Edit]
(IMG) link or Attach File: image
But, if you use Attach File: and (Choose File) button down below the Reply text box, you should be able to upload a small file from your computer, which is how I uploaded the screen shot of my ugly mug taken from iChatAV video window.
BTW the Creator of the original Happy Face used my face as the model...
I have never been able to get the IMG button or language to do anything except create a link to an image.
But, if you use Attach File: and (Choose File) button down below the Reply text box, you should be able to upload a small file from your computer, which is how I uploaded the screen shot of my ugly mug taken from iChatAV video window.
BTW the Creator of the original Happy Face used my face as the model...
Attachments
Buying my first PowerBook
I am new to MacRumors, but have been reading some of the threads on the PowerBooks and I was looking for some buying advice.
I have a Dell Dimension 8200 at home and I am looking to purchase a laptop for school. I have a PowerMac G4 867 DP at work (w/OS 10.2.8) and I love it. I think it's much easier to use. I have Virtual PC with Windows XP Pro on it, so I can test things on the Windows side if I have to.
I program in FileMaker Pro at work and find it much easier to design on my Mac than on my Windows at home.
My current classes involve learning/using Macromedia Suite MX 2004 - I purchased the academic version last fall and installed it at home. I tested the applications on my Mac at work and think they will be easier to use on a Mac.
So...I have been keeping my eye on MacMall to buy a 15" 1GHz PowerBook and bump the RAM up to 1GB. Will that be good enough for me? Will it run Virtual PC very well?
I'm anxious to buy, but not sure if I should wait for these rumored price drops etc. This will help me to take work home. I have also been picking up FileMaker Pro work on the side and it would be easier to bring a laptop to a client's site.
Thanks for your input.
Long-windEd
I am new to MacRumors, but have been reading some of the threads on the PowerBooks and I was looking for some buying advice.
I have a Dell Dimension 8200 at home and I am looking to purchase a laptop for school. I have a PowerMac G4 867 DP at work (w/OS 10.2.8) and I love it. I think it's much easier to use. I have Virtual PC with Windows XP Pro on it, so I can test things on the Windows side if I have to.
I program in FileMaker Pro at work and find it much easier to design on my Mac than on my Windows at home.
My current classes involve learning/using Macromedia Suite MX 2004 - I purchased the academic version last fall and installed it at home. I tested the applications on my Mac at work and think they will be easier to use on a Mac.
So...I have been keeping my eye on MacMall to buy a 15" 1GHz PowerBook and bump the RAM up to 1GB. Will that be good enough for me? Will it run Virtual PC very well?
I'm anxious to buy, but not sure if I should wait for these rumored price drops etc. This will help me to take work home. I have also been picking up FileMaker Pro work on the side and it would be easier to bring a laptop to a client's site.
Thanks for your input.
Long-windEd
Re: Buying my first PowerBook
Sounds like you and I are pretty similar users. I have a Dimension 8200 and a PowerBook 1Ghz/1GB, and I do database and web work too, so I think I can help you.
The PowerBook's great. 1GB is, for the most part, all you'll need. Getting more is a waste of money for what you're doing, in my opinion.
You'll not find the same "snappiness" on your PowerBook that you find with your Dell...browsing in the GUI will be slower, as you may be aware from comparing your DP tower to your Dell. The relative merits of OS X versus Windows 2000 or XP have long been discussed, and I'll assume that since you're familiar with both platforms, you know the pros and cons of each.
Since you've used VirtualPC, you know that it can be *slow*. If you want to use it to run anything of significance, forget about it.
Database work on any laptop is not so much fun, mostly because of the slow drive speeds. FMP is better implemented on the Mac than it is on the PC, *but* if you're really using your laptop for database "show and tell" for clients, the PowerBook should be great.
Price drops will come. My personal guess is new models and/or price drops by the end of March, but it's really anyone's guess.
Sounds like you and I are pretty similar users. I have a Dimension 8200 and a PowerBook 1Ghz/1GB, and I do database and web work too, so I think I can help you.
The PowerBook's great. 1GB is, for the most part, all you'll need. Getting more is a waste of money for what you're doing, in my opinion.
You'll not find the same "snappiness" on your PowerBook that you find with your Dell...browsing in the GUI will be slower, as you may be aware from comparing your DP tower to your Dell. The relative merits of OS X versus Windows 2000 or XP have long been discussed, and I'll assume that since you're familiar with both platforms, you know the pros and cons of each.
Since you've used VirtualPC, you know that it can be *slow*. If you want to use it to run anything of significance, forget about it.
Database work on any laptop is not so much fun, mostly because of the slow drive speeds. FMP is better implemented on the Mac than it is on the PC, *but* if you're really using your laptop for database "show and tell" for clients, the PowerBook should be great.
Price drops will come. My personal guess is new models and/or price drops by the end of March, but it's really anyone's guess.