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PowerMac 970's... Later than Sooner?

Originally posted by Black Badger

The only danger to this is if the new machines do not perform as well as expected and a negative buzz will be created. Either way Apple are well aware of the fact that the new machines NEED to be pretty amazing so they will be pulling out the stops.
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The only thing stopping me from making an Apple tower purchase is that the current hardware is WAYYYYYY tooooo SLOOOOWWWWW; I'm not waiting for the 970 to appear: I'm waiting to see if it's fast as it SHOULD BE, before I consider a purchase. It would be an huge let-down to jump on a purchase (before seeing a performance test) that could end up being a very expensive mistake.
 
64-bit Developer Seeds

When other companies came out with their 64-bit CPUs and 64-bit operating systems, the early limited-production systems were given (or loaned) to software developers working on 64-bit applications.

This gave the developers a head start, so that by the time the 64-bit systems were in full production there were some 64-bit applications to run on them!

The other companies often had an additional step, where they released 64-bit development tools long before any hardware was available. These tools ran on the existing 32-bit systems, but used all of the 64-bit APIs and had additional tools to look for 64-bit programming errors (like treating a pointer as 32-bits).

You couldn't run the 64-bit programs, but you could at least be sure that they compiled and linked cleanly. As soon as you got 64-bit hardware, you could start debugging.
___________________________________________

I wonder if WWDC will see the release of 64-bit tools, even if there's no hardware around....
 
Tazznb
It would be an huge let-down to jump on a purchase (before seeing a performance test) that could end up being a very expensive mistake.
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In my previous post I outlined a proposal where Apple release a 'Developer Batch' at WWDC just for WWDC attendees available immediately. This would allow developers to develop/test/tweak their code and for benchmarks to be carried out, this would allow people like yourself to see whats what without having to make a blind purchase. At WWDC pre-orders for Aug/Sept would be available for the public (not just developers)
 
Speaking of dead pm sales, I love how Apple tells the stockholders that this is because of the economic pressures on the creative folks. They know the real reason, but they dare not not spin the data, otherwise they'd never recover.:)
 
Originally posted by Black Badger
As for killing Powemac sales, well they are pretty much dead now anyway.
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Definitely - I know for me (and I'm sure a few others) all the recent rumors regarding the potential availability of 970-based kit made me put off buying a G4. I do need a new computer, but not bad enough yet to warrant purchasing what is potentially old-generation stuff! =)

edit: I'm a creative person and I've actually GOT a chunk of money to spend on new equipment! boooo Apple. Hehe.
 
The PPC970 can arrive before 10.3 this system will only add 64Bit abilities to him but unless this he will be very fast !!!

The will realease the machine with this chip and Developers wil lget on WWDC the machines and builts of 10.3 to develop Software for this System and the Chip !

Than when some apps are ready 10.3 will come !

So WWDC machines and built of 10.3 for Developers !!!
Maybe also for Public ...

And then by Semptember 10.3 Public
 
they could pretty much release the 970 during the confrence. and if people think it well kill powermac sales. all i have to say is. drop the price 500 to 600 dollars and you have a sub 1000$ mac desktop in the low end.... people want a cheaper lowe end desk top but not an imac. the current powermac can fit nicly in there...
 
Originally posted by JtheLemur
Definitely - I know for me (and I'm sure a few others) all the recent rumors regarding the potential availability of 970-based kit made me put off buying a G4. I do need a new computer, but not bad enough yet to warrant purchasing what is potentially old-generation stuff! =)
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I here you on that. I'm running a 450MHz single processor at home and its really starting to get to me. But there is no way I'd drop several $k to get up and running right now on a Dual 1.42 when it will be greatly surpassed by the end of the year.

The good thing is that I have a TiPB and dual 1.25 at work.....so its not all that bad yet. :D

D
 
Apple will definitely say something about the 970 at the conference - a prediction - even if it's not ready to go into production.
I just feel that even Steve Jobs will have to bow to public and customer expectations. A lot of businesses have been holding off making purchases, in good faith, but can't continue to do this much longer, in the absence of confirmation. And Apple must know that.

My 50C.
 
I mean, how much longer can Apple 'coast' on the current line of PowerMacs? There's nothing new about them, and hasn't been in years - just splashes of paint to make them look new (DDR, Bluetooth, redesign of El Capitan)... blah! Hopefully they'll say SOMEthing.
 
A little OT, but my 2c nonetheless....

I've noticed a lot of newbies on these boards complaining about how slow the G4 is, how low sales of G4 Powermacs are and have been from what seems like no evidence.

Sure, the G4 isn't the total powerhouse it first seemed it would be, but there are a lot of people who find the performance of jaguar on a dual G4 to be pretty good, myself included.

The 970, if and when it is released, will no doubt herald a whole new era of enjoyable Mac computing, but let's not forget that we're getting a decent (if not world-beating) experience now, and Apple has used the lull in hardware to come out with some incredible software solutions that run well on current top-end machines. My concern is more for the consumer buyers who are only now beginning to see anything like the performance they should expect from the Finder in OS X. Speed-wise the performance of OS 9 on consumer machines was far more adequate, but things are improving. I look forward to the day when there are 970-powered iMacs - then there'll be no cause for complaint

*gets ready to eat his own words*
 
Well there is one interesting thing that could really kill them - if they announce the 970s at WWDC and then provide an speed bump to the current G4s to tide us over until the 970s are available.

That would be a shot in the foot for Apple if they did that. Which means that if they announce a new machine based on the 970 at WWDC (which is what we're all expecting) that will mark the end of the PowerMac G4 line - and it would be in Apple's best interest to get the new machines out into the public asap.

Given that - there is no reason Apple isn't spreading rumors itself saying that the 970s will come out later.....rumor control at this point might mean the difference on selling the old G4s off....

D
 
We've previously heard rumors that there will be one more "minor technical update" to the PM G4, so this is not inconsistent with that. My guess, however, is that Apple will provide us with a roadmap for new processor integration, lest those who purchase the new G4 (if these rumors are, in fact, true) can do so with their eyes open. In other words, these would likely be manufactured in extremely limited qualities as sort of a finger-in-the-dam measure.

elo
 
Re: I hope not

Originally posted by macdop
...not buying new hardware that will be massively obsolete in a month or two!
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obsolete?

This word is bandied about quite a bit in these forums. Isn't there anyone who knows what it means? Let me help.

adj.
1. No longer in use
2. Outmoded in design.

See? There's no mention of cutting edge or even being trounced in benchmarks. There are pre-G3 machines out there that aren't "obsolete", depending on their usage. Providing that the hardware doesn't fail, your machine will run the software that's installed on it indefinately. It doesn't become a worse machine as better ones come out.

You can complain about the ugly portholes tacked on the G4's 5 year old case or the tacky mirrored doors or the loud fans. You can even get steamed up at the increasingly non-competitive performance of these machines compared to P4s. But obsolescence? That's absurd!

The grammar police have left the building! - :D

As an addendum, I'm hoping that 10.3 adds the equivalent of an extra couple megahertz to the feel of my machine. It's all about perception...
 
A PPC970 announcement could spur G4 sales

Originally posted by The Shadow
Apple will definitely say something about the 970 at the conference - a prediction - even if it's not ready to go into production.
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Many people predict that even hinting about the PPC970 will destroy PMG4 sales.

OTOH, if Apple were to say "PPC970 coming in January", it's possible that you'd see a quick jump in sales of the current G4 models.

The reason - many customers are holding off right now because they think that the 970 will be here soon - perhaps in a few weeks at WWDC.

If everyone knew that it is many months away, many will decide that they can't wait that long, and they'll buy the current machines.
 
Re: Re: A PPC970 announcement could spur G4 sales

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Many people predict that even hinting
about the PPC970 will destroy PMG4 sales.

OTOH, if Apple were to say "PPC970 coming in January", it's possible that you'd see a quick jump in sales of the current G4 models.

The reason - many customers are holding off right now because they think that the 970 will be here soon - perhaps in a few weeks at WWDC.

If everyone knew that it is many months away, many will decide that they can't wait that long, and they'll buy the current machines.
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History is not on your side here - the classic example of Osbourne computers is quoted all of the time against this arguement. Most people would just continue to live with their current machines - adding memory, a Quartz Extreeme capable video card, etc until the newer machines come out. In my case, I bought an older, used PM and a Radeon 8500 to hold me - Apple saw zero profit from my purchase.

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Of course, they could always start taking pre-orders for a January release! :p
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That's more likeley - especially if a deposit is required on them.
 
Re: A PPC970 announcement could spur G4 sales

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Many people predict that even hinting about the PPC970 will destroy PMG4 sales.

OTOH, if Apple were to say "PPC970 coming in January", it's possible that you'd see a quick jump in sales of the current G4 models.

The reason - many customers are holding off right now because they think that the 970 will be here soon - perhaps in a few weeks at WWDC.

If everyone knew that it is many months away, many will decide that they can't wait that long, and they'll buy the current machines.
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...... Or if it's a large corporate entity they may be forced/pressured to go the dark road of WIntel; What do you think? Not everyone's gonna wait! Especially when you have to contend with a company that have a large Windows population.

I have an Eduacational order for the machines that are coming, and if they have nothing new to show before my ordering time is up they'll STRONGLY recommend my purchasing pcs for the classes.

A lone consumer, or head of business probably can afford to wait, but I don't have that luxry.:(
 
Osbourne only had one product

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
History is not on your side here - the classic example of Osbourne computers is quoted all of the time against this arguement.
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Yes, but Osbourne was a small company with one main product.

Right now I have Powerpoints outlining IBM's Intel server roadmap for the next 18 months, right down to last-order-dates and new model numbers and specs and intro dates. I also have similar presentations from Dell and HP. I'm buying Xeons today, even though I have a non-disclosure presentation on Prescott and even later chips.

These companies believe that it's important to give their customers the information necessary to plan and budget IT purchases - more important than ego and surprises.

"Osbourne" is the exception....


Most people would just continue to live with their current machines...
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In other words, just what they're doing anyway.
 
Just because their may be a demo of the 970 running panther (if you want to demonstrate your 64bit OS you need to run it on something) doesn't mean they were going to be released or announced to the public. Everyone assumed that's what it meant. Now they very well could be ready but they aren't going to be announced there I don't care what anyone says. Announce the 970 at a developers $1400 per person conference which centers around software? No.

It will be in the fall or possibly around MWNY like it's been stated all along.
 
Re: A PPC970 announcement could spur G4 sales

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Many people predict that even hinting about the PPC970 will destroy PMG4 sales.
Click to expand...

Sales aren't that good right now are they? I think Apple will have to find away to announce. Furhtermore, they'll have to go 970 across the board.

With Intel's springdale chipset and cheap HT P4's for it, $800 pcs will be blowing the best PMG4 out of the water.

Springdale Chipset

Apple is going to have to rethink this pro/consumer model. At the very least each line should have a maxed out machine. And moving to a 970 or equivalent is no longer if, but how soon.
 
WWDC not to be missed.

I don't know if someone already pointed this out, but I remember apple saying something like this WWDC will be the most important or whatever in Apple's history...

I don't think that only a new iPod software and a preview of Panther will do that :p

Still, 970's aren't granted of course. But I would look forward in at least a demo of it used in a Mac..
 
erin n dfw...apple made money...

eric,

don't be foolish-- of course apple made money on you... just not directly...the person you bought from most likely upgraded their powermac to one SOOOOOOO much more powerful, they sold their 'old, slow one' to you- and they will probably sell the new one when the 970's come out- costing them a few 100 dollars (remember, these are macs, they HOLD resale value very well) and they will have had a 'New, Fast mac' the WHOLE TIME YOU WERE SCREWING AROUND with last years (or 1999, as the case) models.

i know people who do this all the time...they actually RELY on whiners like you.

enjoy your old slow mac, then enjoy the '15 minutes of fame'you have with your 970 when it comes out- cause you wont upgrade to another new one til the 980's or later(2 years)...whining the whole time.

have a great day.

anonmac

p.s. anyone who says the powermac sales are slow because of performance is dead wrong. the creative markets (where i work) ARE drying up. A 50-person design group just 'disbanded' in my city because of lack of work. (They purchased 10-20 new macs a year). and that IS representative of whats happening. (if you're in the industry, fighting for the last few jobs- you KNOW what i mean-- otherwise it's hard to fathom.)
 
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
If Apple want to keep Pro's who need / want fast machines as their customers, they'll beter give a hint if / when the successor of the G4 will come (hopefully, the 970...:) )..... otherwise they could be switching to the darker, but faster side!
As said before: PM sales are down anyway.
 
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