PowerMac 970's... Later than Sooner?

[BenRoethig]

Originally posted by iwantanewmac
So many people crying for "their" g5's
I think there is gonna be 1 G4 update.
New powermac not until very late 2003 or early 2004.

I don't think we're going to see another update for the G4. Motorola has done just about everything they can with the 7455 and I have a feeling the desktop versions 7457 and its DDR variant were never developed. Apple is stuck where it's at until the 970 (or another G4 successor chip) comes, whenever that is.

 

[Wonder Boy]

Re: A PPC970 announcement could spur G4 sales

Originally posted by AidenShaw
many customers are holding off right now because they think that the 970 will be here soon - perhaps in a few weeks at WWDC.

If everyone knew that it is many months away, many will decide that they can't wait that long, and they'll buy the current machines.

I said this to a buddy of mine 20 minutes before reading this post! You sir, are a genius.

BTW- I still need advice on whether to buy or wait on a airport device. I want to go wireless, but is today the day to go and buy one? Thanks.

 

[Frobozz]

Re: erin n dfw...apple made money...

Originally posted by anonmac
A 50-person design group just 'disbanded' in my city because of lack of work. (They purchased 10-20 new macs a year). and that IS representative of whats happening. (if you're in the industry, fighting for the last few jobs- you KNOW what i mean-- otherwise it's hard to fathom.)

You're in the wrong line of creative work. Business is booming if you're moving with the trends. If you don't, you're extinct like the dinosaurs. That's how the world works now, sadly. No longer can the same skillset move someone from age 25 to 65... it's usually about 5 to 10 years at most.

I know this is a bit off topic, but creative work no longer means designing something pretty. That's about 25% of the larger picture for any successful design firm. It just depends on your definition of design.

 

[fourthtunz]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
I here you on that. I'm running a 450MHz single processor at home and its really starting to get to me. But there is no way I'd drop several $k to get up and running right now on a Dual 1.42 when it will be greatly surpassed by the end of the year.

The good thing is that I have a TiPB and dual 1.25 at work.....so its not all that bad yet.

D

Yeah I'm with you, I decided to wait on the powermac, but bought an emac with the superdrive, a very nice machine with lots of software and half the price of a powermac. 2 Macs are better than one!
daniel

 

[IJ Reilly]

So what else is new?

Announced in June, and ships in September, along with Panther. A typical Apple rollout. Isn't that what most of us have been predicting all along?

They will probably also have to offer some significant pricing incentives to move the existing PM line. Alternatively, they could announce the 970 for the Xserve line only in June, and leave us guessing when it will appear in the desktop products.

Several scenarios with only small variations on the same theme.

 

[pgwalsh]

Very sad if true

If they don't announce the 970 at WWDC 2003, that will be very sad. If They don't ship until September then that would be even worse.

Options

 

[MisterMe]

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
I've said it before, I'll say it again.
If Apple want to keep Pro's who need / want fast machines as their customers, they'll beter give a hint if / when the successor of the G4 will come (hopefully, the 970... )..... otherwise they could be switching to the darker, but faster side!
As said before: PM sales are down anyway.

If the machines on the darker side could do the job, those people would have switched long ago.

 

[Groznoy]

a sad day

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
I here you on that. I'm running a 450MHz single processor at home and its really starting to get to me. But there is no way I'd drop several $k to get up and running right now on a Dual 1.42 when it will be greatly surpassed by the end of the year.

The good thing is that I have a TiPB and dual 1.25 at work.....so its not all that bad yet.

D

my 8500/450G4 died last night after I got back from work. I've been hoping to last a couple of months on this machine until the 970 comes out, but now I don't know what to do! I'm not buying the current powermacs. I want the 970 and a new enclosure. maybe i'll just hybernate for a while.

 

[dongmin]

Re: PowerMac 970's... Later than Sooner?

Originally posted by Macrumors
Recent information, however, suggests that PowerMac development is still ongoing, and neither finalized nor in-production at this time. This would suggest that PowerMac 970's would not ship until some time well after WWDC.

no one has really discussed what this could mean. If the machines are indeed still 'in development', then it's probably way way off before we could get our grubby hands on them. Maybe not til 6 months from now. So maybe not until MWSF 2004!!!

 

[Kamu-San]

Re: erin n dfw...apple made money...

Originally posted by anonmac

p.s. anyone who says the powermac sales are slow because of performance is dead wrong. the creative markets (where i work) ARE drying up. A 50-person design group just 'disbanded' in my city because of lack of work. (They purchased 10-20 new macs a year). and that IS representative of whats happening. (if you're in the industry, fighting for the last few jobs- you KNOW what i mean-- otherwise it's hard to fathom.)

Scary, but insightful. That means that Apple should target other markets than the creative pros too.
And lower their prices. Because face it, a dual 1.42 is *not* slow. It's just waaaaaay to expensive for it's performance.

 

[mactastic]

Re: So what else is new?

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Announced in June, and ships in September, along with Panther. A typical Apple rollout. Isn't that what most of us have been predicting all along?

They will probably also have to offer some significant pricing incentives to move the existing PM line. Alternatively, they could announce the 970 for the Xserve line only in June, and leave us guessing when it will appear in the desktop products.

Several scenarios with only small variations on the same theme.

What he said!
And as for another scenario... I wouldn't complain if a fall release of the iBook had a G4 running at 1-1.25Ghz in it for under $1200 when the pro line goes 970. Or a PMG4 tower under $1000 (I know, what about the iMac, eMac etc. but some people like all-in-ones, and others like to have pci slots.). Not everyone needs their computer to push the limits of speed, so cheap G4's would keep them selling.
My $0.02

 

[areyouwishing]

Originally posted by MisterMe
If the machines on the darker side could do the job, those people would have switched long ago.

I had an Apple II GS, that was my first, and last apple to date (though i plan on getting one soon). I work as a graphic designer and have NEVER had a problem using a PC for my work.

You're in the wrong line of creative work. Business is booming if you're moving with the trends. If you don't, you're extinct like the dinosaurs. That's how the world works now, sadly. No longer can the same skillset move someone from age 25 to 65... it's usually about 5 to 10 years at most.

I agree with this statement to a certain degree. Even though we have shifted our focus slightly (more CD-ROMS, websites, etc.) our primary dollar is earned off collateral material. I wouldn't say business is booming like it was 2 months ago, but I did get a raise last week, so I can't complain too much.

 

[Remus]

Re: Re: PowerMac 970's... Later than Sooner?

Originally posted by dongmin
no one has really discussed what this could mean. If the machines are indeed still 'in development', then it's probably way way off before we could get our grubby hands on them. Maybe not til 6 months from now. So maybe not until MWSF 2004!!!

I do not think it is that far off. If you look at this article from Business Week Online you will see that it looks like they will be out this summer. IMHO that means August with ship date of September.

I know the guy who wrote this article does not have the technical knowledge of computer from his statement "IBM says the new Apple chip will be of the 64-bit variety, which means it can process twice as much information per cycle as existing 32-bit chips." But from a business aspect he may have the right info.... IMHO

 

[jayscheuerle]

Another thought...

If these machines do come out in (let's say July), why would any of the brighter people in these forums buy one right away? As anyone who has read these discussions as recently as the current Tower release would know that revisions are frought with problems and these are going to be BIG revisions.

So, for any of you impatient fellows out there, let's not hear any whining about overly sensitive RAM, jet engine fan noise or table melting heat when you put your order in on release day. Same goes for those installing Panther in a production environment. Apple can't even release a .0x release without it hosing someone's system.

You're sure to pay for revision A
So wait and see for revision B

- j

 

[macspirit]

Hardware strategy/roadmap

While the Intel/AMD folks seem to have a clear view of what lies ahead with regard to future hardware releases, the PowerPC people seem to lost in the desert...waiting patiently (in a coma?) for Moses to lead them back to the Promised Land. IMHO, Apple needs to spearhead an effort to marshall their hardware forces for an all-out assault on the Intel juggernaut. Why not enlist IBM, Motorola, Samsung and a few others to form a 'coalition of the willing'? Willing to cooperate on the creation of hardware designs that lead, rather than follow the industry. Apple needs to push hardware design, because the incentive for desktop processor development just doesn't seem to be there. Motorola, IBM and the rest seem to be primarily interested in the embedded market, and have scant interest in spending research and development dollars to produce state-of-the-art desktop computer processor designs. That's something Apple sacrificed, when it killed off the clones. It reduced the size of the market for the very kinds of hardware on which its continued profitability depends. And it left a very sour taste in the mouth of its biggest supplier of PowerPC chips...Motorola. The competition the cloners provided to Apple forced them to develop newer and faster hardware designs at a more rapid pace. Imagine how much more incentive Motorola had to produce faster generations of PowerPC chips, when their own hardware sales profits depended on them. Imagine how that incentive evaporated, when Apple pulled their license. It's no wonder Apple is turning now to IBM for salvation, because they're all that's left of the PowerPC alliance. Clearly, the time for action has passed. One wonders if Apple will ever wake up, and get their act in gear.

 

[freundt]

Originally posted by BenRoethig
I don't think we're going to see another update for the G4. Motorola has done just about everything they can with the 7455 and I have a feeling the desktop versions 7457 and its DDR variant were never developed. Apple is stuck where it's at until the 970 (or another G4 successor chip) comes, whenever that is.

...And not to mention the whole Moto/Apple lawsuit...

 

[IJ Reilly]

Re: Re: So what else is new?

Originally posted by mactastic
What he said!
And as for another scenario... I wouldn't complain if a fall release of the iBook had a G4 running at 1-1.25Ghz in it for under $1200 when the pro line goes 970. Or a PMG4 tower under $1000 (I know, what about the iMac, eMac etc. but some people like all-in-ones, and others like to have pci slots.). Not everyone needs their computer to push the limits of speed, so cheap G4's would keep them selling.
My $0.02

Back atcha. At some point we need to look beyond the technical and political questions and even (lord help us) beyond the rumors to what Apple must do in the near term as a matter of basic survival. Fact is they absolutely must get these new CPUs out the door, and no matter how quickly they can hustle their butts to make it so will hardly be fast enough, the change is that far overdue. If we know this for a fact as Apple customers, certainly Apples knows it.

All of which suggests to me sooner rather than later, and not because it necessarily squares with all of the rumors, but because Apple just cannot afford to wait any longer.

 

[rjwill246]

Re: Hardware strategy/roadmap

Originally posted by macspirit
While the Intel/AMD folks seem to have a clear view of what lies ahead with regard to future hardware releases, the PowerPC people seem to lost in the desert... Apple needs to spearhead an effort to marshall their hardware forces for an all-out assault on the Intel juggernaut. Why not enlist IBM, Motorola, Samsung and a few others to form a 'coalition of the willing'? Clearly, the time for action has passed. One wonders if Apple will ever wake up, and get their act in gear.

You are right. I was just looking at the computers at a car dealership (put in any workplace) and they were all flimsily made black things with either Dell or Gateway stamped somewhere, parallel ports (et al. passé stuff) and it just hit me that Apple can never get into this market because it is simply NOT Apple to do so! It is certainly unthinkable for them to make crappy black boxes. But- what if they make a well integrated hub and have beautifully made but stripped down iMac-like "terminals" to go with a stunningly designed server (hey! it might not be hidden and someone might see it!) and get into that great Unix software "catalogue" of business software and THEN go head to head with the Wintel world. It just seems an impossible task for Apple to sell PMs or iMacs as currently configured to be bought in the millions to replace the "black box" market. Macs are too expensive... but that begs another question and that is, does Apple want to get into that market? Judging by comments on this forum, one senses that the answer would be a resounding NO! However, "stripped down" does not have to mean 'crappy' and I venture that there is indeed a market opportunity for Apple to blow away the competition with 'business' machines that would not be an embarrasment to them (or us). Hence, another need for a coalition of the willing!

 

[GregA]

Re: Hardware strategy/roadmap

Originally posted by macspirit
IMHO, Apple needs to spearhead an effort to marshall their hardware forces for an all-out assault on the Intel juggernaut. Why not enlist IBM, Motorola, Samsung and a few others to form a 'coalition of the willing'? Willing to cooperate on the creation of hardware designs that lead, rather than follow the industry.

Alternatively, could (for instance) IBM build a 970 Xserve for Apple, using the design principles IBM is already using on their own 970 systems, but with Apple box and software? Would that be a good or bad thing for apple?

Would that work for other systems, with other manufacturers? Or would it remove Apple's control over their hardware & software integration?

 

[GregA]

Re: Hardware strategy/roadmap

Originally posted by rjwill246
It is certainly unthinkable for <Apple> to make crappy black boxes. But- what if they make a well integrated hub and have beautifully made but stripped down iMac-like "terminals" to go with a stunningly designed server (hey! it might not be hidden and someone might see it!) and get into that great Unix software "catalogue" of business software and THEN go head to head with the Wintel world.

That's really interesting!

And not just for small companies saving money - but for homes as they start more commonly wanting more than one computer. A nice little iMac-like option as a dumb terminal - maybe with graphics chip and soundcard for speed?

(Throw in the option of using old Mac OS 8/9 machines as dumb terminals too?... or Linux PCs?)

 

[macspirit]

Re: Re: Hardware strategy/roadmap

Originally posted by rjwill246
I venture that there is indeed a market opportunity for Apple to blow away the competition with 'business' machines that would not be an embarrasment to them (or us). Hence, another need for a coalition of the willing!

I must tell you that I am amazed that Apple has waited this long to do something about Motorola's inability (or unwillingness) to keep pace in the area of processor performance. Surely their technical people have been aware of what's been going on for the last couple of years.

I would agree that Apple certainly has the wherewithall to produce a 'business' class of machines that would humble their Wintel competition, but I wonder if they have the will to do so. Given the current paucity of processor choices for such a project, and their propensity to prefer prodigious profit margins, I become even more skeptical of their ever attempting to move into that market.

Apple has concentrated all of their efforts on the digital hub and software development of late, while hardware development seems to have fallen somewhere way down the list of priorities at One Infinite Loop. The big, unanswered question is 'Why?' If anyone out there knows the answer, I'd love to hear it.

 

[Abstract]

Re: Re: I hope not

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
obsolete?

This word is bandied about quite a bit in these forums. Isn't there anyone who knows what it means? Let me help.

adj.
1. No longer in use
2. Outmoded in design.

See? There's no mention of cutting edge or even being trounced in benchmarks. There are pre-G3 machines out there that aren't "obsolete", depending on their usage.

Ah, that's every Mac-head's pre-programmed answer to the "obsolete" statement. If Macdop doesn't want to buy hardware that WILL become obsolete in 2 months, then good. From your train of thought, I should feel quite happy and comfortable purchasing a Pentium II 400MHz for $3000 since all I need a computer for is internet browsing, MS Word, Excel, and Powerpoint.

Let me put it this way: a Pentium II would fit my needs, but no, I'm definitely not willing to part with $3000 to purchase one. Even for my needs, a new computer that is slower than a P4 2.0GHz is obsolete hardware that I shouldn't pay a premium for. Mac users are paying a premium. My mode of thought can also be used for a G4 Dual 1.42GHz computer, especially when I know a 970 is just around the corner. I want to get the best product for my money, and at this point in time, getting a DP G4 1.42GHz PM isn't in anyone's best interests, no matter what their needs are. A Pentium 1 is obsolete in anybody's book, even if it can still 'technically' be used by some poor shlub.

 

[Cappy]

Apple is not going to enter into the pricewar . They never have and only will at this point if they break up into hardware and software to release an x86 based Mac OS X. If the hardware no longer has to support the software development as it has, those prices can come down quite a bit and be very competitive.

Now what could get interesting if someone went out on a limb, is see Apple break up into hardware and software. The hardware side becomes even more niche oriented in what it develops with monster multiprocessor systems for Unix markets and one or two cool looking boxes for the consumer and/or executives. The software side on the otherhand would support those systems as well as release an x86 based version. The Windows itunes software would be released when this happens and be a nice intro for getting Windows users to think more about Mac OS X.

Speaking of itunes I'm wondering how much longer before Apple releases an itunes box that connects to a stereo system so that consumers can tap into playing music downloaded off of the itunes store. This might be Apple's trojan for getting into consumer settop market that virtually everyone has failed at. Something like this probably wouldn't be shown at wwdc though but it would be a perfect product to come out this year.

 

[abdul]

release 970 so get rid of g3

i hope they do release the 970 at wwdc, i dont kno much about it but there a lot of 'to be annoced' patrs in the schedule of wwdc, is that normal?

if they just release it maybe then i can buy an ibook... the g3 is not worth having even at 900mhz, especially when the os is alvitec optimised and the g3 makes no use of this!

sj just release the 970 so you can move the ibook onto a more powerful processor (more powerful i said b4 eeryone says how poerful the g3 is anyway!)

 

[jayscheuerle]

Re: Re: Re: I hope not

Originally posted by Abstract
Ah, that's every Mac-head's pre-programmed answer to the "obsolete" statement. If Macdop doesn't want to buy hardware that WILL become obsolete in 2 months, then good. From your train of thought, I should feel quite happy and comfortable purchasing a Pentium II 400MHz for $3000 since all I need a computer for is internet browsing, MS Word, Excel, and Powerpoint.

Let me put it this way: a Pentium II would fit my needs, but no, I'm definitely not willing to part with $3000 to purchase one. Even for my needs, a new computer that is slower than a P4 2.0GHz is obsolete hardware that I shouldn't pay a premium for. Mac users are paying a premium. My mode of thought can also be used for a G4 Dual 1.42GHz computer, especially when I know a 970 is just around the corner. I want to get the best product for my money, and at this point in time, getting a DP G4 1.42GHz PM isn't in anyone's best interests, no matter what their needs are. A Pentium 1 is obsolete in anybody's book, even if it can still 'technically' be used by some poor shlub.

okay.....

Either you still don't understand what obsolete means or you have a special rumor-site dictionary...

I'll type slowly here... Obsolescence is not related directly to processor speed or price or specs of any sort (though if you're looking for a $3000 PII, I'll be happy to set you up). It is related to usage and is most often subjective. Seldom is an object rendered completely obsolete on its own (8-tracks, Betamax, 5.25" floppies- though I bet there are a few people out there for whom they are not). If your usage moves beyond it, it may become obsolete for you (if you have a contemporary Mac, ADB devices are obsolete for you). To imply that a machine becomes obsolete because of a jump in processor speed is ludicrous. If 10.3 only supported the 970 chipset and you wanted/needed to run it, then yes, current machines would be obsolete to YOU. But that's not going to happen. Desire for a 970 will not make your G4 obsolete. Best interest or foresight may assure you of a product with a slightly longer shelf-life and are very practical reasons for holding off a purchase, but it's not like the release of the 970 is going to change the specs of machines currently available. They are what they are, and frankly, one of those things is overpriced. I wouldn't buy any Apple tower right now and it's not for fear of obsolescence, it's because I think they're a rip-off.

Merriam Webster is your friend. Use him.