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Boot into Open Firmware and type multi-boot .

Here it is on a Rev. A Bondi iMac(I think all the errors it throws out are a product of the "flakiness" of these early systems-I've not seen a B&W do that). Note at the bottom you're given a list of bootable volumes(only one in this system) and prompted to type a number for the one you want to boot.

Later tray loaders and the Lombard had a primitive GUI type interface for this screen-I'll try to dig that out later if anyone is interested, although it won't be until after I get home from work this evening.

IMG_6146.jpg
 
Boot into Open Firmware and type multi-boot .

Here it is on a Rev. A Bondi iMac(I think all the errors it throws out are a product of the "flakiness" of these early systems-I've not seen a B&W do that). Note at the bottom you're given a list of bootable volumes(only one in this system) and prompted to type a number for the one you want to boot.

Later tray loaders and the Lombard had a primitive GUI type interface for this screen-I'll try to dig that out later if anyone is interested, although it won't be until after I get home from work this evening.

View attachment 838387

Interesting. So it doesn't manifest in a GUI? It's only in OF?

If I had one of these machines to play around with I'd try it, but alas, I do not :(
 
Thank you.
Today I received the ram model 'Kingston KVR133X64C3 / 256 VALUE RAM' and although they are 256MByte, the PM recognize only half of them (128MB). The chips are only on one side.

The B&W G3's are infamous for being very picky about RAM. You need to buy RAM that is tested and certified to work in these towers.
 
The B&W G3's are infamous for being very picky about RAM. You need to buy RAM that is tested and certified to work in these towers.

Hmm, maybe I've been lucky on the half dozen or so I have throwing whatever random RAM I have in them(often lowest bidder PC133 LD 256mb from China or whatever I happened to scavenge from the junk pile) or they aren't as picky as claimed...

The only G3 where I've really had major issues getting RAM to play nice is the Rev. A Beige ROM.

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Interesting. So it doesn't manifest in a GUI? It's only in OF?

If I had one of these machines to play around with I'd try it, but alas, I do not :(

There again, on B&Ws and early iMacs, it's OF based. The later tray loaders and Lombards get a clunky GUI. Slot load iMacs have the conventional boot picker we all know and love.
 
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@Amethyst1 First time I've ever seen that!

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Hmm, maybe I've been lucky on the half dozen or so I have throwing whatever random RAM I have in them(often lowest bidder PC133 LD 256mb from China or whatever I happened to scavenge from the junk pile) or they aren't as picky as claimed...

I think that you were lucky, because myself and many many others have seen how picky they can be. It seems to demand dual sided RAM. The only non-certified stick I ever got to work in mine was a random 128MB from a generic PC shop. And it was dual sided also.
 
I think that you were lucky, because myself and many many others have seen how picky they can be. It seems to demand dual sided RAM. The only non-certified stick I ever got to work in mine was a random 128MB from a generic PC shop. And it was dual sided also.

What you're talking about is what's known as "low density" RAM, and in my experience the B&W is fine with high density as long as the sticks are smaller than 256mb(256mb MUST me LD).

Truth be told, I don't actually know off the top of my head how many B&Ws I have, but they're a mix of Rev. A and Rev. B. I've also worked on/serviced/built plenty of others in addition to the ones I have myself. Some of mine are bone stock, while others have been pushed beyond reasonable limits in terms of clock speed and so forth.

The point being-I think you're fear-mongering on this, or you've just had really poor luck with RAM on these systems. Saying that people need to spend big bucks for "tested and certified" RAM for them is asinine in my experience.
 
I'm certainly not "fear mongering", but rather telling my and many others experience. And the main reason I did so is that the thread starter has an issue with their B&W only seeing half of a 256MB stick.
 
its well known that the G3 BWs MPC106 Memory controller requires the use of Low density RAM, or otherwise the RAM stick will only be seen at half capacity

this "issue" is not to do with the G3 BW being picky with RAM, its just how they all are, the same goes for G3 beiges Lombards tray-loading iMacs, and Yikes! G4s as they all use the same MPC106 Memory controller/north bridge

and 440BX based PCs if your wondering...

its just one of the limitations of the chipset thats all
 
They're not picky, they're just old. It's unreasonable to expect them to work with memory that post dates them by years and intended for other chipsets.

This is an important point to make, especially when sourcing RAM. While faster RAM can clock down to work with older equipment, it isn't guaranteed that it will be fully compatible. Also, you will tend to find that newer RAM is usually much easier/cheaper to find than the RAM that shipped with your particular Mac. What might have seemed like a bargain sometimes turns out to be a disappointment when only half the capacity is recognised by your Mac's memory controller.
 
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its well known that the G3 BWs MPC106 Memory controller requires the use of Low density RAM, or otherwise the RAM stick will only be seen at half capacity

To tag on to this, and I know you know this, the LD issue really seems to only come into play when you exceed 16mb/chip.

A 128mb stick with 8x16mb chips will work fine at full capacity, whereas a 256mb stick with 8x32mb(or a 512mb with 16x32mb) will only read at half capacity.

There again, timing doesn't matter as I've used all PC100, all PC133, or a mix of them. I've also used 512mb sticks or HD 256mb and just accepted them working at half capacity.

Again, I'll go back to the "junk pile at work" where I scavenged probably close to 100 sticks of ECC 128mb PC-100 low density. Some will claim that this is a guaranteed failure, but it boots fine in a B&W and just ignores the fact that it's ECC.

For laptops, 512mb LD PC-133 can be a bit hard to find, but it's out there. For that matter, 256mb low density(for Lombards) can be even more difficult, but there again you just have to wade through a bunch of Ebay listings. I've bought 20+ sticks at a time of unbranded, new production SDRAM from China and never had it fail for me unless I was working with a Rev. A beige or they messed up and sent my high density 256mb when the listing specified low density(even that works fine at half capacity in a B&W or beige, or at full capacity in a Sawtooth-Quicksilver).
 
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High density RAM was out well before the B&W was introduced. And the average person will think that anything classed as PC100 will work in a PC100 system. Most don't know to even look past the PC100 spec.
 
High density RAM was out well before the B&W was introduced. And the average person will think that anything classed as PC100 will work in a PC100 system. Most don't know to even look past the PC100 spec.

The issue is NOT with high density RAM in general-it is with high density 256mb sticks. All 256mb sticks were expensive enough in 1999 that I doubt many people were buying them, and those that were I would have hoped would have taken the time to research them.
 
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The issue is NOT with high density RAM in general-it is with high density 256mb sticks. All 256mb sticks were expensive enough in 1999 that I doubt many people were buying them, and those that were I would have hoped would have taken the time to research them.

Have you used single sided 128MB sticks successfully in a B&W? I was only ever able to use double sided.
 
Have you used single sided 128MB sticks successfully in a B&W? I was only ever able to use double sided.

I will load some up and show tonight.

I'd have to double check, but I know I have one B&W that came to me with its factory RAM configuration-a single 128mb stick(with an Apple on the sticker). I THINK it was a high density stick.
 
They're not picky, they're just old. It's unreasonable to expect them to work with memory that post dates them by years and intended for other chipsets.
No. They're picky. No other computer I own is that picky with RAM (Or anything else like drives and PCI cards for that matter). They remind me of G5s as those are picky too. My sawtooth is old, and so is my Pentium 120 PackardBell PC. None of these come close to how picky the B&W is.
 
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No. They're picky. No other computer I own is that picky with RAM (Or anything else like drives and PCI cards for that matter). They remind me of G5s as those are picky too. My sawtooth is old, and so is my Pentium 120 PackardBell PC. None of these come close to how picky the B&W is.

I knew there were others who found the B&W to be quite picky. Out of the 4-5 generic PC shop sticks I tried... only 1 ever worked, and it was a dual sided 128MB. To get working 256MB sticks, I had to order them from OWC.
 
I think the point is that they can be picky, and if you have one of the neurotic ones then you may well be in for fun times.

My rev A B+W G3 is super chilled out and seems to be happy with whatever random crap I throw in it as long as I don't try and use the onboard IDE controller. But by contrast I once had another rev A that was picky about EVERYTHING, drives, PCI cards, Ram, you name it, if it wasn't want it wanted it threw a wobbly, and it sometimes had a tantrum even with stuff it had previously played nicely with. I also never managed to get any kind of stable overclock with it even using the CPU from the aforementioned other rev A that has been happily clocked from 300 -> 450Mhz for the last decade in that machine so I can only point the finger at the LoBo.

Most of the rev Bs I've encountered though have been a lot better, and all my Yikes, Sawtooth and Gigabit G4s have been super tolerant, but the pickiness started creeping back in with Digital Audios IME.

I guess it's a little unfair to say picky really, as I think the truth of the matter is that they work perfectly with components that meet the spec that they designed for, they're just less tolerant of deviations from that, even mild deviations that other systems take in their stride.

You can see that as a weakness of the system, or you can see the tolerance of other systems as an unexpected bonus, depends on your POV.

It's partly about the environment and use case though, these are now mostly personal hobby machines, where as once they were commercial workhorses, and I make very different decisions when buying parts for commercial production machines vs my own.

For example on the HP servers at work in production environments I will never fit anything other than approved parts (at higher expense), the guaranteed compatibility and continuity of support means it is a necessity, but as soon as those machines rotate out of production into lab use, or if I'm using similar kit at home, then I'm happy to fit any old stuff as long as it 'works'.
 
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I have a rev A B&W and sulky is how I would describe it. If it doesn’t want to play it will just go on strike for no reason whatsoever. Cold boots are always a bit of a lottery.
 
I will say my Rev A G3 BWs can be a bit picky overall, requiring me to shuffle the RAM sticks around from time to time (sadly I dont own any Rev B machines to compare against)

but the whole RAM sticks at half capacity, is just a memory controller limitation, its not down to the machines being picky, thats what people dont seem to get it seems.

so in that regard a G3 BW is not a picky machine, but in other regards it can be a bit finicky

(in that I find my Rev A, will general work with whatever random RAM I throw at it, but sometimes ill just have to randomly shuffle the RAM around in different slots)
 
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My list of woes when I had a B & W....never again....

1. Rev A 350Mhz B & W working with 192Mb
2. Upgrade RAM - wont boot.
3. Put original RAM back in - wont boot
4. Reseat GPU - boots
5. But then stops booting again
6. Then starts booting again
7. Install OSX but updates won't install
8. Wont verify expanded disk images
9. Doesn't recognise my Firewire optical drive
10. Wont boot
11. Replace HDD with Compact Flash but wont install
12. Replace with standard HDD and it boots/installs
13. Replace CDRW with CD/DVD
14. Wont boot from optical drive unless using commands in Open Firmware
 
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My list of woes when I had a B & W....never again....

1. Rev A 350Mhz B & W working with 192Mb
2. Upgrade RAM - wont boot.
3. Put original RAM back in - wont boot
4. Reseat GPU - boots
5. But then stops booting again
6. Then starts booting again
7. Install OSX but updates won't install
8. Won't verify expanded disk images
9. Doesn't recognise my Firewire optical drive
10. Wont boot
11. Replace HDD with Compact Flash but wont install
12. Replace with standard HDD and it boots/installs
13. Replace CDRW with CD/DVD
14. Wont boot from optical drive unless using commands in Open Firmware

I thought mine had issues, but yours seems to be like a spiteful person at the end of a bad relationship.
 
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