Let us know your thoughts (I assume this is your first Mac Pro)Well, ever since my last Quad, I've been on the look out for one at the right price and I've finally snagged one for £40 - first generation, 2.66Ghz with 9Gb RAM...I can always replace the CPUs later on if need be
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Powermac G5 Cautionary Tale...
- Thread starter Dronecatcher
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Yep, all was good til I disconnected the ADC and put more RAM in....
[doublepost=1530816005][/doublepost]
Yes it is - my first hurdle will be Snow Leopard or Lion...I can't think of any real reason to go with Lion.
Three pulses of the power light does indeed mean there is no memory detected. There is a well known issue with the PowerMac G5 where the ASIC next to the memory slots (located on the opposite side of the slots themselves) develops a solder connection problem and therefore the system is unable to see the memory. The suggestion to use a heat gun is an attempt to reflow the bad solder joints but, in the vast majority of cases that I've read about, it typically fails shortly after being performed.
[doublepost=1530817067][/doublepost]
They're a big step up in web browsing performance. IMO a 1,1 Mac Pro is a very capable web browsing (an area where I feel the G5 systems are severely underperforming) system.
Slightly newer browsers...
With that said, I'd either run SL or go whole-hog and run El Capitan. The latter requires a GPU upgrade, and there are various options from budget to relatively expensive.
(says the guy running Mavericks on his 1,1 because he likes it, it's still getting current FF builds, and he's been too lazy to install El Capitan).
El Capitan is about to go out of support.
You could just use Linux instead. As always, it's faster and fully supported.
Of course, the PowerPC experience has a good share of quirks, but in my experiences on a Mac Pro 3,1, the journey has been next to flawless. I'd recommend elementary OS to most replicate OS X. Juno is likely coming out sometime this month, which I'd wait for (then dual-boot) with Snow Leopard.
You could just use Linux instead. As always, it's faster and fully supported.
Of course, the PowerPC experience has a good share of quirks, but in my experiences on a Mac Pro 3,1, the journey has been next to flawless. I'd recommend elementary OS to most replicate OS X. Juno is likely coming out sometime this month, which I'd wait for (then dual-boot) with Snow Leopard.
WaterFox.
The latest version is still compatible with Lion. I have used it on several A1181 MacBooks and it works great!
I would run Elcap on your 1,1. If you do, be certain that you read the 1,1/2,1 El Capitan thread on here as when you update the os, 2018 sec update will revert your boot.efi file & brick the box lol. That thread talks about how to fix this. Regardless of the short ElCap support, I think it’s worth it & a good learning opportunity overall.
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...s-x-el-capitan.1890435/page-170#post-26211926
At this point I have used Leo, SL, Lion & Elcap on this box & Elcap is IMO a much better overall experience in terms of functioning within the Apple ecosystem, iOS peripherals & running current software. Performance really has not slowed either. Fun box for sure. I like mine a lot.
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...s-x-el-capitan.1890435/page-170#post-26211926
At this point I have used Leo, SL, Lion & Elcap on this box & Elcap is IMO a much better overall experience in terms of functioning within the Apple ecosystem, iOS peripherals & running current software. Performance really has not slowed either. Fun box for sure. I like mine a lot.
Last edited:
El Capitan will most likely be supported by the major web browsers for a long time to come. It also still supports major productivity software like Office 2016 and the latest versions of Adobe CC.
Linux doesn't have anything on OS X when you need to run mainstream software.
I'll admit that it's all in your needs, but for many folks Linux really isn't a viable option.
For me, if I can't run the following software, it's a no-go. Others will have different requirements:
MS Office, or at least Word, Excel, and Powerpoint
Endnote
Adobe CS in some form(primarily Photoshop, but also InDesign and Illustrator)
Adobe Lightroom
Adobe Acrobat Pro
I also occasionally use programs like Spartan and Mathematica, neither of which have anything close to a Linux equivalent.
BTW, the hardcore computational chemistry guys have switched almost entirely to Macs and MacOS/OS X. They can still do Perl and Python programming, but don't have to deal with half-baked solutions like OpenOffice when it comes to presenting and publishing.
Why anyone would want to use Linux on an Intel Mac is completely besides me, unless it's someone's only computer. The reason anyone would want to buy a Mac is, well, an official platform for macOS/OS X. Other than dual booting, which I get with Windows, there's no real reason to boot flaky operating systems such as desktop Linux builds, when they offer quite literally no advantages to Mac or even Windows. Lackluster desktop software selections, is always gonna be a problem.
Linux' real place is on the server, out of view, in use for services. In the entire time it's been used as a desktop operating system, it still has nothing on macOS or Windows. And if you really wanted to run Linux as a main operating system, building a cheap PC is a much more sensible option. I really don't get why every thread on older Macs needs to have someone prop up Linux as some sort of silver bullet. It has its place, but not here.
Linux' real place is on the server, out of view, in use for services. In the entire time it's been used as a desktop operating system, it still has nothing on macOS or Windows. And if you really wanted to run Linux as a main operating system, building a cheap PC is a much more sensible option. I really don't get why every thread on older Macs needs to have someone prop up Linux as some sort of silver bullet. It has its place, but not here.
If you can clear the shorting, the card should still work. Just not with an ACD. Otherwise there were other issues.
[doublepost=1530831972][/doublepost]
Doesn’t Mathematica run on Linux? The free copy you get with a Raspberry Pi runs on Raspbian, based on Debian.
I can't speak for OpenOffice, but LibreOffice, the default office suite for most distributions, is NOT half-baked.
Maybe because modern OS X is a completely neutered, flakier option than Linux is. Maybe because Apple thinks they can manage your computer better than you can. Maybe because Linux is more Apple-like than Apple themselves are. It could really go on.
...Or they want well-built hardware to last forever, complete with sexy, easy-to-service internals. Speaking on their older professional computer families, of course.
...Excuse me? No real reason to boot powerful operating systems over flaky, sad excuses of computer software such as Windows? Well... Here's one. http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/software-technology/difference-between-dos-and-unix/ And another. https://www.pcworld.com/article/206692/5_things_linux_does_better_than_mac_os_x.html One more. https://itsfoss.com/linux-better-than-windows/ I could do this all day.
No, there are thousands of good software selections available. What's gonna be a problem, is people's unwillingness to move to superior environments, simply because they're "different". The age old Incentives-and-Information problem is a pesky one.
Its place is EVERYWHERE, since it's so damn portable and simple to pick up. They don't call Debian "the universal operating system" for nothing, you know!
This post was heavily biased and based on borderline disinformation. I am very disappointed.
I purchased my 2006 iMac 6,1 for a steal in 2016 (high-end model with the 2.33 GHz Core 2 Duo + GeForce 7600 GT) and since installed an SSD + 4 GB RAM (3 GB usable). It maxes out at OS X Mountain Lion, which Apple and many third-party software developers dropped support for years ago. Mountain Lion was the first version of MacOS I ever used on a personal Mac, and as such I still enjoy using it, but it's definitely feeling outdated now.
So, I installed Linux Mint on the iMac (dual-boot) and it has now become the primary OS I use on that hardware. It matters more to me that the hardware is useful than it does that the hardware runs MacOS or Windows, and it is more useful with Linux and current versions of apps such as Google Chrome.
Performance is surprisingly good for a current OS on a 2006 Mac as well, better than I would expect from MacOS or Windows. And as a bonus, I get the Cinnamon dark UI, which if Apple had their way would only be available for the 2012+ Macs that can run Mojave.
Do keep in mind that Macs aren't just about the software. The 2006 iMac has a very nice all-in-one design with a 1920x1200 display, IR sensor, and speakers built-in. A PC box with an external display + pair of speakers wouldn't be nearly as nice to look at. And it certainly would've cost more than I originally paid for the 2006 iMac.
Last edited:
Dark Metal pixels require more grunt than light OpenGL pixels. Yes, that sounds about right.
Cinnamon is a beautiful WindowManager. I am also really impressed with the look and feel of Fedora Workstation.
Well built hardware? Have you forgotten the subject of the thread you're responding in?
DOS? Did I read this right? You're posting a comparison of UNIX to DOS?
I don't believe Daniël is being negative towards Linux but rather is questioning why anyone would, with a few exceptions, use Macintosh hardware to run it. I recommend you go back and re-read his post. This time without the fanboy glasses. I think you'll be surprised to discover he was not being negative towards Linux.
I totally agree with you on this point. Debian is one of the most compatible and well supplied Linux distribution you can find. Works great on powerpc processors and it is the only one I've found to be working well with my old Asus laptop from 2004.
Last edited:
I've always enjoyed Linux on X86/X64 - both from a tinkering perspective and as a solution for folk who've asked me to set up a 'no-nonsense' internet computer, the joy of installing a distro that auto senses all hardware, installs drivers, completes all updates and is done usually within half hour is amazing.
PPC not so much, that is definitely under the tinkering for the sake of it guise, as it's a time consuming journey to get any machine close to running properly.
Linux on Intel Macs has it's place I'm sure for those disenfranchised with modern Apple - I myself haven't used a OSX newer than Snow Leopard so I can't speak for how disappointing modern iterations are. However, for design and music, Linux has nothing to remotely compare to what we have available on the Mac and for that reason, my productive machines will always be OSX.
PPC not so much, that is definitely under the tinkering for the sake of it guise, as it's a time consuming journey to get any machine close to running properly.
Linux on Intel Macs has it's place I'm sure for those disenfranchised with modern Apple - I myself haven't used a OSX newer than Snow Leopard so I can't speak for how disappointing modern iterations are. However, for design and music, Linux has nothing to remotely compare to what we have available on the Mac and for that reason, my productive machines will always be OSX.
For us who like to tinker as a hobby, Linux is the gift that keeps on giving. I have Linux running on two of my machines- Elementary OS on my Blackbook 4,1 and Debian 8 XFCE on my iBook G4 1.33. I have found that these two systems are the sweet spots for the distros that I chose and am keeping them on those machines. Yes, there are limitations on the PPC install, but I've gotten that install to the point where I no longer want to tinker with it, and it's become one of the machines that I rotate in and out of use regularly. I've installed Linux on pretty much every PowerPC machine with a Radeon that I've owned, and most have too many issues to want to keep the install. My aluminum PB G4 1.5, for instance, was a big disappointment, due to trackpad and video driver issues. No amount of tinkering or research could get these issues to sort out no matter what I did. My DP2.0 G5 HATES Linux with a passion, with stuttering and choppiness while running the X server, but that's probably due to the Radeon 9600 Pro in it. That machine will stay on Leopard, which is very pleasant to use. If you use video playback as one of the benchmarks (and I admit that I do to a certain extent), the latest Leopard Webkit and Quicktime 7.7 makes this a no-brainer, even on my TiBook 867. Your mileage will definitely vary with PowerPC installs.
The Macbook 4,1 install with Elementary OS? Pure bliss. Much faster than ML and much more up-to-date, and as an everyday machine, a joy to use. I still have ML on my other (white) Macbook 4,1 and it gets used here and there, but has various issues that plague it due to the unsupported install (video, etc). I wouldn't mind running Lion, if I could get the machine to boot with the 64-bit kernel (although I admit I never tried with the 3,1 or 4,1 machines and went straight into the unsupported ML install). I'd have to put my recommendation in for Linux or even Windows 7/10 (with the spying services shut off and an extensive hosts file) on the plastic 1,1 to 4,1 Macbooks over OS X, whatever that's worth. Still, I keep my 3,1 and white 4,1 on OS X, just because... well...
All of my other Macs have various flavors of Mac OS/macOS/OS X on them, and they're upgraded and configured for the maximum usage experience. My Bondi iMac has a 400mhz G4 processor (compliments of @dosdude1) and is a lot of fun to mess with, just to see how far I can push it (compliments of @AphoticD and HIS tweaks). It plays 3gp video via the View script/mplayer nicely, and with 512mb of RAM and in 16-bit color with shadows turned off, it's pretty speedy as a general-use machine. I'll probably follow his lead and drop it back to Puma, as I haven't spent much time with it except "back in the day". Same with my now-repaired Wallstreet.
We've gone wayyy off-topic now...
Last edited:
We may be off topic but there's not much else to say about the original topic so may as well discuss something else.
I can speak up to Yosemite, because for right now, that's as far as the Mac Pro I use at work goes.
Just some basics for me…
Lion added a new minimum sizing of Finder windows. I keep a lot of windows open on my left monitor at work. It makes it easier to access stuff I work with a lot. But it requires windows to be of a specific size. I now have to use an Applescript to get past Lion's new minimum window size because it's larger than the smaller size I need.
Mavericks added a SMB bug. After 24 hours you can no longer work with InDesign documents on the server. Try to save and it causes InDesign to quit because "X document has lost it's connection". A work around exists allowing you to use CIFS (SMB 1) to connect to the server. But, while more stable it's slower than SMB 2 and SMB 3.
There's a product out there called DAVE and it was made by Thursby Software for late versions of OS 9 and versions of OS X up to Yosemite. Why? Because it took Apple that long to implement the SMB protocol that EVERYONE ELSE HAD.
I think it was also Lion that made you have to exert additional energy to get to your Library folder inside your Home folder.
Yosemite continues this tradition of trying to prevent access to customizing the system. Apple believes that you the user should run only a stock version of OS X in the manner they install it. So they make every effort to prevent you from modifying the system.
In the past this was evident in that Menucracker was a thing. But now they have started to really lock the system down. Disk Utility has also been neutered.
So Yosemite is where I stop on Mac.
As an aside, Windows 7 is where I stop on my PCs. When that finally gets around to not being supported anymore I am ultimately going to be faced with a decision of what OS to use and I am not into Windows 10's forced updates. That'll be a while yet, but maybe by that time Linux will be more mainstream.
In any case, Snow Leopard is probably the sweet spot. I certainly don't care for much of OS X above that.
Your write up could be the case for Linux opposing modern OSX - I've only just started with Lion so it's too early to tell - the future might be Linux for daily driver, vintage OSX for productivity.
Things have always kind of been a night and day thing depending.
I hate Tiger because of the disaster it was at work. But on my home Macs it's been a stable and reliable (and yes, fast) system. Panther was great at work and home, but very boring. Leopard was the same, but I've had to optimize it both at work and home.
Snow Leopard only saw home use and it took getting used to but I like it. Everything past that has been used at work and that's where my bias comes in.
I'm sure OS X performs well in home use, but I've got no Macs than can run anything higher than Snow Leopard at home.
Consequently my experience is colored by how Lion, Mountain Lion, Mavericks and Yosemite deal with Windows 2012 servers, InDesign and file sharing.
Yosemite has been the first version that's been modern enough for me to stay current, have Finder stable with SMB 3 but at the same time still be able to support some of the older stuff I still need. But Apple is already moving to deprecate it.
But this is only my experience. At home I also have some PC/Server type stuff but other ways to work around things.
Just putting it out there, but if your Mac has 4GB or more of RAM then El Capitan is the best “Modern” (post-Snow) version of OSX imho. I really don’t like Sierra and don’t care much for HiSi, but El Cap improved massively upon Mavericks and Yosemite in terms of performance and general quirks. Snow Leopard is still the finest of the lot though.
Alright, for one, I realize I've got a historical tendency to not pay enough attention to title bars while posting, but most Macs are regarded as well-built machines compared to the competition. Save for several exceptions, like the first G5s.
They are also generally prettier to look at.
And? The point remains that Daniël claimed that Linux distributions "offer quite literally no advantages to Mac or even Windows.", which is just factually false. Therefore I am pointing out an undeniable advantage that although both Linux and OS X benefit from, disproves his claim that Linux distributions offer no advantages whatsoever to even Windows, for crying out loud. One (technically two) is built off of an objectively superior platform over the other, which makes a difference if you're commonly in the command line, which many people are.
Hardware is irrelevant. You could run OS X on a Windows PC if you wanted to, and Macs use off-the-shelf internals, making them nearly identical to a regular computer, internal component-wise. It's really up to what you already have on hand, not to what you have, period.
So he isn't negative, and I'm a fanboy. Really.
Most of the content that made up his post was based off disinformation, inexperience, and opinion, all stated as-a-matter-of-fact. Yes, my post had its share of bias and opinion, but not as prevalently. He sounds like he's either never used it before, or has only had bad experiences in a couple of examples, then promptly decided to go back to his known operating systems and badmouth all Linux desktop distributions.
I recommend you follow your own advice. This time without the apologist glasses.
-
This is getting a little out of hand. Even if there isn't much to say about a non-functioning G5, we can at least talk about G5s in general on a G5-focused thread. I believe that to be a better option than a petty "My OS is better than yours!" prizefight.
Truce, to everyone.
I would go with El Capitan on the iMac 6,1, only no one has figured out how to make GPU acceleration work on the 7600 GT, meaning it'd be almost unusable. It does run very nicely on a 2006 Mac Pro with an aftermarket GPU.
Mountain Lion is a fine version as well, it's just not supported by much in 2018. And obviously El Capitan will eventually reach the same fate (already has with Apple Xcode / iWork / iLife, as apparently supporting two older versions of MacOS with current apps is too much work for a multi-billion dollar company).