PowerMac G5 Updates - March 23rd?

[neonart]

This thread has gone so long it's now a catch-all for anything else people need to go into.

Where are the flipin' G5's? I actually looked on Alienware's site like two days ago... now that's wack. Now, I'm not doing anything crazy, but the fact that even I looked at the dark side even for 3 minutes means there's got to be other, less loyal buyers making impulse buys at Witel Depot.

 

[pgwalsh]

This thread has gone so long it's now a catch-all for anything else people need to go into.

Where are the flipin' G5's? I actually looked on Alienware's site like two days ago... now that's wack. Now, I'm not doing anything crazy, but the fact that even I looked at the dark side even for 3 minutes means there's got to be other, less loyal buyers making impulse buys at Witel Depot.

Maybe Sun's Java Desktop is calling you... shhhhh

 

[ghiangelo]

This thread has gone so long it's now a catch-all for anything else people need to go into.

Where are the flipin' G5's? I actually looked on Alienware's site like two days ago... now that's wack. Now, I'm not doing anything crazy, but the fact that even I looked at the dark side even for 3 minutes means there's got to be other, less loyal buyers making impulse buys at Witel Depot.

hey i've got three quotes for dual Xeon configurations in front of me now. i'd like to get another for an AMD FX 53... this G5 wait is very long.

 

[neonart]

hey i've got three quotes for dual Xeon configurations in front of me now. i'd like to get another for an AMD FX 53... this G5 wait is very long.

What brand?

 

[invaLPsion]

hey i've got three quotes for dual Xeon configurations in front of me now. i'd like to get another for an AMD FX 53... this G5 wait is very long.

Build a PC around an FX-53 from Newegg. That system will be CHEAP and will Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

I was looking at getting one of those till I ordered by powerbook (see below).

 

[thatwendigo]

Build a PC around an FX-53 from Newegg. That system will be CHEAP and will Purrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Cheap?

Athlon FX-53 $815
Asus SK8V $183
Crucial 2GB PC 3200 (2x1GB) $700
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM SATA $206
Pioneer DVR-A07 8x DVD+RW/-RW $164
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB $245
Soundblaster Audigy 2ZS $164
ThermalTake 560w PSU $94
Koutec PCI 1394b KW-1314 $62

Cost: $2633

Parts alone, no case, runs you almost the price of a Dual G5.

Edit: Before anyone says anything about being able to buy cheaper parts, please take into account I only used the manufacturers that Apple would use, where possible. This is a comparison list, after all.

 

[Palador]

No, the G5 HASNT been updated.

Taking a Dual 2.0 and crippling it with a slower bus and two processors that from the 1.8 batch is NOT a freaking update! It's marketing ploy to sell more G5s. Too many people were either buying only the Dual 2.0 or NOT buying anything because they didnt want a single processor system when a dual was available... albeit more expensive. People were saying, why should I plop down $2300 on a single 1.8 when a dual 2.0 (more than twice the difference to most laypeople) is 3k?

And to respond to some statements in advance:

No, I wont be patient becayse the G5s wont come out soon. $100 bucks says they are announced at WWDC and shipping in 8 -10 weeks.

No, the current dual G5 2.0 isnt 'good enough'

No, its not the graphics card or something else holding things up for this long

Yes, its Apple and IBMs fault for having a 1 year update cycle and Yes their business will suffer because of it.

 

[Palador]

Wendigo,

That system can be had for cheaper. But as is it is a better price than the Dual G5 2.0 and I guarantee I'd have it running faster, cooler, and quieter than our long in the tooth PowerMacs.

 

[ingenious]

Wendigo,

That system can be had for cheaper. But as is it is a better price than the Dual G5 2.0 and I guarantee I'd have it running faster, cooler, and quieter than our long in the tooth PowerMacs.

yea, but its not a mac.

 

[thatwendigo]

Taking a Dual 2.0 and crippling it with a slower bus and two processors that from the 1.8 batch is NOT a freaking update! It's marketing ploy to sell more G5s. Too many people were either buying only the Dual 2.0 or NOT buying anything because they didnt want a single processor system when a dual was available... albeit more expensive. People were saying, why should I plop down $2300 on a single 1.8 when a dual 2.0 (more than twice the difference to most laypeople) is 3k?

It's an update to the design of the computers. While the chips used in the G5 computers are not updated yet, the systems that they're sold in have had at least that one revision. Even if all they did was clock down a 2.0 system, it's still selling a version that wasn't previously available and which is a far better deal than the original single 1.8. As such, the G5 product line has been updated, and the xServes are running a revised version of the chip.

Hence. you're wrong.

No, I wont be patient becayse the G5s wont come out soon. $100 bucks says they are announced at WWDC and shipping in 8 -10 weeks.

That's within the boundaries that were set for the update.

No, the current dual G5 2.0 isnt 'good enough'

Opinion.

No, its not the graphics card or something else holding things up for this long

Citation, please. I'd like to see your source for this claim.

Yes, its Apple and IBMs fault for having a 1 year update cycle and Yes their business will suffer because of it.

Maybe, maybe not. You don't know what the holdup is, because if you did and you were talking about it, then you'd be risking your job. Apple is notorious for strict enforcement of NDAs.

That system can be had for cheaper. But as is it is a better price than the Dual G5 2.0 and I guarantee I'd have it running faster, cooler, and quieter than our long in the tooth PowerMacs.

Palador,

Read posts thoroughly before mouthing off.

My next line after that configuarion explained what I was doing, but in case you missed it, I'll try this again. That system is built to have a support infrastructure and feature set as close to Apple's hardware as possible. In every case that I could, the parts are exactly the same as the ones Apple uses, such as Maxtor and Pioneer drives, ATI graphics cards, Crucial memory and so on. Where not possible, I went with the midline or the only options available. Yes, the system could be cheaper than that, but only if you cut corners and build it from a market Apple has no access to!

Pissing and moaning about Apple's prices while using a scale that they can't possibly match is assinine and pointless. Yes, you can buy some knockoff part that the manufacturer has licensed out. Yes, you can find things cheaper or do workarounds to run things a different way.

What you don't get is the Apple software, integration, and service. Also, if you're so brilliant that you can run an FX-53 quieter than a G5, well... Why aren't you working for CoolMax or one of the other aftermarket thermal companies? Normally I hate using an argument like that, but I really am curious.

 

[invaLPsion]

Cheap?

Athlon FX-53 $815
Asus SK8V $183
Crucial 2GB PC 3200 (2x1GB) $700
Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM SATA $206
Pioneer DVR-A07 8x DVD+RW/-RW $164
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB $245
Soundblaster Audigy 2ZS $164
ThermalTake 560w PSU $94
Koutec PCI 1394b KW-1314 $62

Cost: $2633

Parts alone, no case, runs you almost the price of a Dual G5..

Does a G5 have 2gigs of ram? No.
Does a G5 have a 250 gig hard drive? No.
Does a G5 have an 8x superdrive? No.
Does a G5 have a radeon 98 pro? No.

Compare what you will, but for $2200, I configured a sweet PC with an FX-53, 160 gig HD, 1 gig Ram, Nvidia FX5950 Ultra 2004GT, a Lian Li Case, etc.

 

[MacRAND]

Goodbye

Does a G5 have 2gigs of ram? No.
Does a G5 have a 250 gig hard drive? No.
Does a G5 have an 8x superdrive? No.
Does a G5 have a radeon 98 pro? No.

Compare what you will, but for $2200, I configured a sweet PC with an FX-53, 160 gig HD, 1 gig Ram, Nvidia FX5950 Ultra 2004GT, a Lian Li Case, etc.

Can your sweet PC hold 16 GB of RAM or run OS X Panther?
NO? Well, then what good is it no matter how cheap it is?
The best part of your configuration is the well made Lian Li Case, and it still pales in comparison to a G5 case.

What's this about 250GB hard drive when you configured yours with 160 GB, which is what I'd prefer to a 250.

The new G5s are coming out with 8x Pioneer SuperDrives, and Apple already sells 5-packs of 8x DVD-R media for $19.95 and has drivers for the new 8x DVD/CD±R/RW burners in place as of 10.3.3.

No matter how you cut it, if you build your sweet PC you still have to lower yourself to WindowsXP, and isn't that a fate worse than death? Oh, you could go Lindows, but you cannot run Panther, the iApps (except tunes), FinalCutPro, Logic 6 or 5,000 other OS X programs...except on a Mac.

However, do what feels good, switcher.
Nobody else is persuaded, no one else will follow your lead to PC land.

 

[Duff-Man]

Compare what you will, but for $2200, I configured a sweet PC with an FX-53, 160 gig HD, 1 gig Ram, Nvidia FX5950 Ultra 2004GT, a Lian Li Case, etc.

Duff-Man says...you forgot to mention - also included....an os with security like swiss-cheese...daily virus updates...ugly as sin...etc etc etc.....oh yeah!

 

[Palador]

Ok, you just go ahead and tell yourself that the dual 1.8 was an update and its the only update we needed.

Great, feel better?

Just because it was a model unavailable before does not make it an update in the true sense of the word. Apple's Updates = progress... except for that one, right? I mean, what if they had come out with 1.2 G4s in Powerbooks a week ago for slightly cheaper with no other changes. Would you have called that an update? No, its old technology at a slightly better deal. (the dual 1.8 G5 still not as good of a deal as 10 month old technology should be)

Granted, it was a better deal for sure, but it was not an update.

Hence, you're wrong.

As far as my source on the delays... HAVE you been reading macrumors.com lately or just trolling in the forums? Its because IBM has dropped the ball in its 90nm process and Apple didnt have a backup plan. A slightly faster 130nm chip would suit me just fine.

If Apple comes out with 3GHz Dual G5s at WWDC shipping by August, I will eat my words and switch AGAIN back to Apple. But how many of you beleive that will really happen?

Btw, I could absolutely find quality parts like you mentioned for 10-20% cheaper than you quoted. Much more cheaper in some cases, and less impressive than others. Check out fatwallet.com sometime

 

[thatwendigo]

Ok, you just go ahead and tell yourself that the dual 1.8 was an update and its the only update we needed.

Once again, read and understand a post before you attack me. I never said that the 1.8 duals were "the only update we needed." I'd really have been happy to see 3.0ghz machines six months ago, but I also understand the realities of the market.

Just because it was a model unavailable before does not make it an update in the true sense of the word. Apple's Updates = progress... except for that one, right? I mean, what if they had come out with 1.2 G4s in Powerbooks a week ago for slightly cheaper with no other changes. Would you have called that an update? No, its old technology at a slightly better deal. (the dual 1.8 G5 still not as good of a deal as 10 month old technology should be)

You're right. Taking a system that used to be single processor and pushing it up to be a dual is just taking "old technology" and using it to defraud the users. What Apple should have done is magically wave their hands to make the IBM fab process suddenly run smoother and give us all 8ghz sextuple-core G6s.

Granted, it was a better deal for sure, but it was not an update.

The motherboards supported duals, and one model was given twice as many processors as it had previously had. It's an update.

Update - n - bring to the latest state of technology; in computer technology

Apple brought more of the line up to their more modern approach, i.e. SMP.

As far as my source on the delays... HAVE you been reading macrumors.com lately or just trolling in the forums? Its because IBM has dropped the ball in its 90nm process and Apple didnt have a backup plan. A slightly faster 130nm chip would suit me just fine.

Sure, guy. I don't read anything at all, which is why my posts almost always reference the latest rumors and talk about them in combination when discussing the G5. Yes, I know that IBM "dropped the ball" on 90nm (your lack of attack on everyone else who's having serious issues with the process shows your bias) and that they're having supply issues. This has nothing to do with whether or not the research and design of the 3.0 ghz machiens will be done, nor does it exclude the other rumors.

If Apple comes out with 3GHz Dual G5s at WWDC shipping by August, I will eat my words and switch AGAIN back to Apple. But how many of you beleive that will really happen?

I think it could, but I don't know if it will.

Btw, I could absolutely find quality parts like you mentioned for 10-20% cheaper than you quoted. Much more cheaper in some cases, and less impressive than others. Check out fatwallet.com sometime

No, not "quality parts like <I> mentioned." You have to do the comparison with manufacturers Apple uses, or you're already destroying the validity of your numbers.

 

[thatwendigo]

Does a G5 have 2gigs of ram? No.
Does a G5 have a 250 gig hard drive? No.
Does a G5 have an 8x superdrive? No.
Does a G5 have a radeon 98 pro? No.

In order:
It can.
It can.
Yes. The model I listed is the one in Apple computers.
It can.

Compare what you will, but for $2200, I configured a sweet PC with an FX-53, 160 gig HD, 1 gig Ram, Nvidia FX5950 Ultra 2004GT, a Lian Li Case, etc.

Configured? Where, and with who? Did you use the same kinds of parts restriction I did so that the comparison would be remotely fair, or did you go with the cheapest stuff available? The processor alone in a parts-only FX-53 is over $800.

 

[Downdivx]

I'll be happy when we have some new powermac rumors so these pointless arguements can end or at least get muted. I think you guys just need to accept that each of you has a different opinion and you're not going to change each other's mind.

 

[pgwalsh]

You're right. Taking a system that used to be single processor and pushing it up to be a dual is just taking "old technology" and using it to defraud the users. What Apple should have done is magically wave their hands to make the IBM fab process suddenly run smoother and give us all 8ghz sextuple-core G6s.

Dont' think I appreciate your sarcasm on this one, not like you care. However, I agree with the sentiments of others in that the Dual 1.8 wasn't a progress update. The 1.8 tried to take demand off the dual 2.0. Apple simply needed to increase production of the Dual processor Mobo's. No new technology was added. The product was just reconfigured to offset demand. Otherwise I can't think of a reason to deliver it. I do recall many MacRumors people being upset at Apple not releasing all the PowerMacs as Dual or at least the top two. This could have been another reason.

 

[invaLPsion]

Can your sweet PC hold 16 GB of RAM or run OS X Panther?
NO? Well, then what good is it no matter how cheap it is?
The best part of your configuration is the well made Lian Li Case, and it still pales in comparison to a G5 case.

What's this about 250GB hard drive when you configured yours with 160 GB, which is what I'd prefer to a 250.

The new G5s are coming out with 8x Pioneer SuperDrives, and Apple already sells 5-packs of 8x DVD-R media for $19.95 and has drivers for the new 8x DVD/CD±R/RW burners in place as of 10.3.3.

No matter how you cut it, if you build your sweet PC you still have to lower yourself to WindowsXP, and isn't that a fate worse than death? Oh, you could go Lindows, but you cannot run Panther, the iApps (except tunes), FinalCutPro, Logic 6 or 5,000 other OS X programs...except on a Mac.

However, do what feels good, switcher.
Nobody else is persuaded, no one else will follow your lead to PC land.

I haven't switched....

See my sig...

 

[thatwendigo]

Dont' think I appreciate your sarcasm on this one, not like you care. However, I agree with the sentiments of others in that the Dual 1.8 wasn't a progress update. The 1.8 tried to take demand off the dual 2.0. Apple simply needed to increase production of the Dual processor Mobo's. No new technology was added. The product was just reconfigured to offset demand. Otherwise I can't think of a reason to deliver it. I do recall many MacRumors people being upset at Apple not releasing all the PowerMacs as Dual or at least the top two. This could have been another reason.

Oh, but you do appreciate the outright flaming from Palador and company? I'll keep that in mind.

I don't know how to get this through to you people who are determined to see this as some sort of negative step, but I'll try again. The G5 processor and the G5 computer are two separate products, and the update of one does not always mean the update of the other. Regardless of reasoning, the 1.8ghz mid-line machine used to be a single, but is now a dual, and this is progress towards faster machines across the line. Are you honestly going to say that adding a processor isn't updating that model? Is that not a speed increase and a jump in architecture support (RAM, at the very least)?

The fact that you don't see a reason other than to take demand off the top doesn't mean that it's the only one. People don't always have the money, or the desire, to shell out top dollars for top machinery. For some, the 1.8 is an acceptable compromise between price and performance, and the addition of a second processor makes it that much more attractive.

Also, if you think that posters at MacRumors being upset with Apple is at all going to affect their strategy... Well, I think I hardly need to comment on how silly that is.

Thanks for the laugh, pgwalsh.

 

[Palador]

Also, if you think that posters at MacRumors being upset with Apple is at all going to affect their strategy... Well, I think I hardly need to comment on how silly that is.

Thanks for the laugh, pgwalsh.

Conversely, the posters here who defend Apple with the 'they can do no wrong' mentality hurt innovation and in the long run will hurt the company. If their customers arent pushing them for more frequent updates, competitive pricing, etc. then the people at Apple will think it is okay to release updates once a year... that its okay to sell us the ancient G4 as if it was the cat's pajamas for astounding prices... that its okay to focus on their beloved iPod at the sacrifice of their loyal computing followers.

These arguements were all brought up with the G4 and will never go away until something changes at Apple.

I really envy people like wendigo. I wish I could just sit there an be happy with being sold a 10 month old computer for 3k and think it's 'good enough'

Have so many of you forgotten Apple's motto? Think Different! Think Motivation, Think Speed, Think Progress... It's happening in the PC community right now and it hasnt happened in the Mac community since last June.

 

[pgwalsh]

Oh, but you do appreciate the outright flaming from Palador and company? I'll keep that in mind.
Thanks for the laugh, pgwalsh.

Just because I commented on yours doesn't necessarily mean I agree with him either.

I do agree with Palador's take on this issue and that doesn't discount that you think it's a product upgrade, but Palador and I see it different. Of course it doesn have to be just processor, but adding one more doesn't qualifty in my eyes. It's what they should have done to begin with. I feel badly for the people who purchased a single 1.8 right before the dual came out.

In addition just because they added a processor doesn't make it an uprade. As opposed to you saying upgrades are not soley in the form of processor speed upgrades, I agree.. If they included newer componenets across the board, then maybe I'd see it as an upgrade, not as somethin they should have done to begin with.

 

[thatwendigo]

Conversely, the posters here who defend Apple with the 'they can do no wrong' mentality hurt innovation and in the long run will hurt the company.

Wrong. Posters neither help nor hurt Apple by the mere act of posting. That is my whole point, because anyone who is swayed by a post on a messageboard that doesn't link to hard, factual evidence is someone who doesn't know enough to make informed decisions to begin with. The only thing that anyone on this board is doing right now is sharing ideas and opinions, and that doesn't at all change Apple's course of action.

If their customers arent pushing them for more frequent updates, competitive pricing, etc. then the people at Apple will think it is okay to release updates once a year...

You say that as if there's something they can do about what a supplier does with their manufacturing lines. It's not as if there's a really broad range of consumer-grade PowerPC manufacturers out there. IBM and Motorola are pretty much the only game in town, and going x86 would be commercial suicide.

that its okay to sell us the ancient G4 as if it was the cat's pajamas for astounding prices...

The G4 is more expensive than comparable PC parts, period. The only reason that the G5 isn't as comparatively a rape on price-to-performance is that IBM is more focused on the task than Motorola was, and has less of an investment in making their processors for embedded tasks and more of a benefit from making them usable in consumer machines.

that its okay to focus on their beloved iPod at the sacrifice of their loyal computing followers.

PowerMac income > iPod income

These arguements were all brought up with the G4 and will never go away until something changes at Apple.

These are the realities of the market, Palador. If you don't like it, there are a thousand odd manufacturers out there who make other processors and other architectures. Go have fun!

I really envy people like wendigo. I wish I could just sit there an be happy with being sold a 10 month old computer for 3k and think it's 'good enough'

Look, would you quit it with putting words in my mouth? I don't even have $3k free to be buying a G5. My two main computers are an eMac and an iBook, with a G4 tower that I game on sometimes.

Guess what? For what I do, they are 'good enough.' A G5 would be even better, but at this point in the computing game, short of bad coding and feature bloat, we're reaching the wall as far as consumer needs. Why do you think that even the x86 world is seeing a lengthening of the time that people hold onto their machines?

Have so many of you forgotten Apple's motto? Think Different! Think Motivation, Think Speed, Think Progress... It's happening in the PC community right now and it hasnt happened in the Mac community since last June.

Read my posts. I'm one of the few people around here who routinely talks about possible new directions. Take a quick hunt through my old posts by clickin on the name next to this one. Look for what I was saying about networked computing, modular devices, and other strategies that could end up being good directions for Apple to take.

Speed is in more than the hardware. Progress means more than a chip. You can have the speediest processor ever, but if the software that runs on top of it doesn't take advantage of it, then there's no point.

For a while, the G3 did kill higher-clocked competitors. The G4 did the same on certain tasks, and the PC world learned how to defeat it. Now Intel's paying the price for their quick-and-dirty leaps with heath that's greater than the lightbulb in the fixture over my head.

Computing isn't always about the specs of your machine, even if they tend to help things along. For someone who's talking about 'thinking differently,' you're sure off in the standard gauges of what speed is.

 

[Frobozz]

Does a G5 have 2gigs of ram? No.
Does a G5 have a 250 gig hard drive? No.
Does a G5 have an 8x superdrive? No.
Does a G5 have a radeon 98 pro? No.

Compare what you will, but for $2200, I configured a sweet PC with an FX-53, 160 gig HD, 1 gig Ram, Nvidia FX5950 Ultra 2004GT, a Lian Li Case, etc.

... and it will run Windows. Eck.

 

[MacZoro]

WINDOWS is an alternative? You're kidding, right?

Ok, you just go ahead and tell yourself that the dual 1.8 was an update and its the only update we needed. Great, feel better?

blah, blah, blah...​

Granted, it was a better deal for sure, but it was not an update.
Hence, you're wrong.

blah, blah, blah...​

As far as my source on the delays...
HAVE you been reading macrumors.com lately or just trolling in the forums?
...Its because IBM has dropped the ball in its 90nm process and Apple didnt have a backup plan.

SOLE SOURCE (except for Motorola G4) means there is no backup plan. Duh!
It's called "having faith in Big Blue"​

A slightly faster 130nm chip would suit me just fine.

Apparently you are easy to please, or you are not as concerned with heat and power issues as the rest of us are ...including IBM & Apple.​

If Apple comes out with 3GHz Dual G5s at WWDC shipping by August, I will eat my words and switch AGAIN back to Apple.

WHY BOTHER, YOU WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED EXCEPT IN THE PC WORLD WITH WINDOZE!
I neither expect a 3GHz G5 by then, nor hope for one - for your sake ​

But how many of you beleive that will really happen?

CONSIDERING THE "NEWS" AND "RUMORS" - none AT THIS POINT
But, who cares? Eventually, IBM will produce a solid 3GHz (and, beyond) and will be able to supply Apple, and it won't be that long, nor does it tax a real Mac person's patience.​

Btw, I could absolutely find quality parts like you mentioned for 10-20% cheaper than you quoted. Much more cheaper (sic) in some cases, and less impressive than others.

BIG DEAL. WHO REALLY CARES? PC PEOPLE, NOT MAC PEOPLE.​

Check out http://www.fatwallet.com sometime

WHY? THEY DON'T HAVE MACS! WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT?
IT'S A WASTE OF OUR TIME AND ENERGY.​

IBM may be going it slow (along with Intel and others who are likewise reportedly having similar 90nm problems) in getting new improved G5 chips to Apple, but new faster G5s are coming - witness the new 90nm G5 Xserves being migrated into the BIG MAC supercomputer at Virginia Tech.

PC may be your choice, but to a Mac person patience with Apple is the better alternative, never a PC...no matter how cheap or supposedly fast they may be. Same old problem > WINDOWS.

IBM didn't spend billions on their Fishkill, NY plant just to walk away.
Two constants in this world over the last 20 years,
IBM plus Apple equal progress.
PC plus Windows equal a big fat painful headache.

All the cheap, fast PC hardware in the world could not induce me or any real Mac person to switch to Windows. It won't bother anyone if you switch to PC.