It's me too. I don't mind looking at the Viewsonic logo on my current CRT, but when I take the plunge for an LCD it won't be a Dell.iGary said:
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PowerMac G5 Upgrades Announced (Officially)
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numbers are way off....
There are no PCI-X graphics cards - you're confusing PCI-X with PCIe, aren't you?
Note that many people are making the argument that PCIe is needed for *availability*, not performance. There's a fast shift to PCIe for higher end cards, and not as much new for AGP.
Staying with AGP will mean less choice and higher prices.
And, BTW, lots of 128MiB and 256MiB PCIe graphics cards for less than $40 at http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Prod...tion=pci+express&Order=price&CompareItemList= ....
Apple has one PCI-X 133 MHz slot and two PCI-X 100 MHz slots in the high end, 3 PCI 33MHz/64-bit in the low end G5. So, you're comparing two technologies that Apple doesn't support (PCIe and PCI-X 2.0).
Note that the real numbers are:
Table 1: Bandwidth of PCI, PCI-X, and AGP Buses
Table 2: PCI Express Bandwidth
(Tables from here, PCI-X 2 lines and x32 PCIe added.)
On the other hand, my Dell PW670 has 3 PCI-X 100 MHz slots, two PCI 32/33 slots, a PCI Express x4 slot, and an PCI Express x16 slote (with 150 watts of power available) in a system the size of the PM G5. (It also support 4 internal hard drives as well as two internal opticals.)
jauh said:
There are no PCI-X graphics cards - you're confusing PCI-X with PCIe, aren't you?
Note that many people are making the argument that PCIe is needed for *availability*, not performance. There's a fast shift to PCIe for higher end cards, and not as much new for AGP.
Staying with AGP will mean less choice and higher prices.
And, BTW, lots of 128MiB and 256MiB PCIe graphics cards for less than $40 at http://www2.newegg.com/Product/Prod...tion=pci+express&Order=price&CompareItemList= ....
jauh said:
Apple has one PCI-X 133 MHz slot and two PCI-X 100 MHz slots in the high end, 3 PCI 33MHz/64-bit in the low end G5. So, you're comparing two technologies that Apple doesn't support (PCIe and PCI-X 2.0).
Note that the real numbers are:
Table 1: Bandwidth of PCI, PCI-X, and AGP Buses
Code:
Bus 32-Bit Transfer Rate 64-Bit Transfer Rate
33-MHz PCI 133 MB/sec 266 MB/sec
66-MHz PCI 266 MB/sec 532 MB/sec
100-MHz PCI-X Not applicable 800 MB/sec
133-MHz PCI-X Not applicable 1 GB/sec
[COLOR=DarkRed]266-MHz PCI-X2 Not applicable 2 GB/sec
533-MHz PCI-X2 Not applicable 4 GB/sec[/COLOR]
AGP8X 2.1 GB/sec Not applicableTable 2: PCI Express Bandwidth
Code:
PCI Express Encoded Data Rate Unencoded Data Rate
x1 5 Gbps 4 Gbps (500 MB/sec)
x4 20 Gbps 16 Gbps (2 GB/sec)
x8 40 Gbps 32 Gbps (4 GB/sec)
x16 80 Gbps 64 Gbps (8 GB/sec)
[COLOR=DarkRed]x32 160 Gbps 128 Gbps (16 GB/sec)[/color](Tables from here, PCI-X 2 lines and x32 PCIe added.)
On the other hand, my Dell PW670 has 3 PCI-X 100 MHz slots, two PCI 32/33 slots, a PCI Express x4 slot, and an PCI Express x16 slote (with 150 watts of power available) in a system the size of the PM G5. (It also support 4 internal hard drives as well as two internal opticals.)
Cooknn said:
Same here, I decided to get a off brand MAG for my first LCD monitor. Granted the intended life-span of this monitor on my G5 is only about 2 months, at-least it is Silver, and it doesn't look half bad next to the G5.
Once my Desk is built, this monitor will end up in my Kitchen hooked up to an old preforma with a built in TV tuner, and i will be buying 2 19 or 20" LCD displays for the new desk
AidenShaw said:
Thanks for the detailed clarification!
Sounds like you have the exact same chassis I do for my work computer. Is that a Dell Precision Workstation?
FFTT rev b dual 2.0
FFTT - is the 1699 edu price from the APPLE Store, or somewhere else... alll I could find was a dual 2 refurb for 1,649, so if you have a link, can you please supply it? I am considering doing what you did... it seems this is a better value than the current middle of the line model, and already reflects a price cut/depreciation/devaluation that the new middle of the line doesn't, so I won't take as big a hit if they actually DO come out w/dual core processors in 6-12 months. Seems to me you could still pull a decent amount of the 1,699 back if you chose to EBay it at that time. What else do you give up other than u/g DVD burner, HD capacity, and of course, tiger and ilife?
FFTT said:
FFTT - is the 1699 edu price from the APPLE Store, or somewhere else... alll I could find was a dual 2 refurb for 1,649, so if you have a link, can you please supply it? I am considering doing what you did... it seems this is a better value than the current middle of the line model, and already reflects a price cut/depreciation/devaluation that the new middle of the line doesn't, so I won't take as big a hit if they actually DO come out w/dual core processors in 6-12 months. Seems to me you could still pull a decent amount of the 1,699 back if you chose to EBay it at that time. What else do you give up other than u/g DVD burner, HD capacity, and of course, tiger and ilife?
So, with my edu discount and the 10% at the Tiger release, a new G5 2.0 will cost me $1599.00.
I feel like an idiot not considering it.
I feel like an idiot not considering it.
AidenShaw said:
No, as a matter of fact I am not confusing things! Unix workstations use PCI-X yes I mean X not PCIe or PCI-E as some call it... Trust me, when I post something I always have hard evidence to back my facts, in this case a bunch of PCI-X (note X not E) on my desk!
AidenShaw said:
Oh, ok, it might've come across like I was comparing stuff to do with Apple... I was actually just comparing architectures. This goes back to the post about PCI-X being faster than PCIe, that's all. In this case nothing to do with Apple's products (primarily because they don't support it, as you rightly said)
The Dual 2.0 is a rocking box - and handles large images in Photoshop beautifully - as I know you are a photographer. It's also excellent for video editing in Final Cut and DVD Studio Pro. $1599 is indeed a great price.iGary said:
[EDIT] Steve looks like a little OC surf rat in your avatar
cliffinMO said:
I went to the Apple education store then clicked the RED TAG SALES
This was under Sales NOT refurbs.
I placed my order by phone.
I found out that the SALE features listing specifies 3 PCI slots.
These are actually the original PCI-X slots.
Keep in mind that these are straight default 2.0's
so you'll need to get any GPU upgrades elsewhere.
I have to send in for the $9.95 Tiger upgrade when I get my machine.
Now I'm thinking pretty hard about getting the Dell 24" display
with the money I saved.
melchior said:
Your bottleneck is the speed of the harddisks. If it is your foremost priority to open large files quickly, get 2 fast drives and build a RAID-0 of them.
put it up, then
Why not tell us what you have then? If your Gruntmaster 9000 workstation has an Acme HyperSpace 12K PCI-X card, then say so.
None of the current Sun SPARC workstations have PCI-X, and the Sun AMD workstations use nVidia AGP cards. IBM POWER workstations use PCI cards, PA-RISC seems to have moved to AGP (with some legacy PCI cards). SGI is in a different league entirely (up to 16 Fire-GL GPUs per workstation). Of course I didn't check every offering from every manufacturer, so please point me at your system.
Being secretive about your systems leads us to wonder if you're making things up....
jauh said:No, as a matter of fact I am not confusing things! Unix workstations use PCI-X yes I mean X not PCIe or PCI-E as some call it... Trust me, when I post something I always have hard evidence to back my facts, in this case a bunch of PCI-X (note X not E) on my desk!
Why not tell us what you have then? If your Gruntmaster 9000 workstation has an Acme HyperSpace 12K PCI-X card, then say so.
None of the current Sun SPARC workstations have PCI-X, and the Sun AMD workstations use nVidia AGP cards. IBM POWER workstations use PCI cards, PA-RISC seems to have moved to AGP (with some legacy PCI cards). SGI is in a different league entirely (up to 16 Fire-GL GPUs per workstation). Of course I didn't check every offering from every manufacturer, so please point me at your system.
Being secretive about your systems leads us to wonder if you're making things up....
x16 PCIe has twice the bandwidth of PCI-X 2.0 533 !!
But look at the tables that I posted, clearly x16 PCIe is faster than any PCI-X - even the new (and nearly non-existent) PCI-X 2.0.
PCIe is taking off rapidly, even my recent servers have PCIe slots for high bandwidth cards (10GbE, IB, FC). PCI-X 2.0 isn't taking off at all.
jauh said:Oh, ok, it might've come across like I was comparing stuff to do with Apple... I was actually just comparing architectures. This goes back to the post about PCI-X being faster than PCIe, that's all. In this case nothing to do with Apple's products (primarily because they don't support it, as you rightly said)
But look at the tables that I posted, clearly x16 PCIe is faster than any PCI-X - even the new (and nearly non-existent) PCI-X 2.0.
PCIe is taking off rapidly, even my recent servers have PCIe slots for high bandwidth cards (10GbE, IB, FC). PCI-X 2.0 isn't taking off at all.
Cooknn said:The Dual 2.0 is a rocking box - and handles large images in Photoshop beautifully - as I know you are a photographer. It's also excellent for video editing in Final Cut and DVD Studio Pro. $1599 is indeed a great price.
[EDIT] Steve looks like a little OC surf rat in your avatar
He does look like a little hippy, doesn't he? It's his senior pic.
Now all I have to do is convince the significant other that $1600.00 will be coming out of the checking account.
FFTT said:
That's sweet, I thought I would be in for $100+ on the tiger u/g.
You ought to consider the 23" HP (L2335), IMHO. My wife is real particular about that kind of thing & that's what she's been eyeing. I think I'm going to pitch her the rev B 2 & the 2335 instead of the rev c 2.3 and no monitor u/g... her last NEW mac was a 15" PB a couple of years ago, and her DT is a G4-450 w/ a 1 ghz (single) sonnet u/g we bought I think in 1998. I believe the performance increase from that to the dual 2.0 will be so great, the incremental boost (2.0 v 2.3) wouldn't be worth the $.
Any one else w/an opinion on that?
how did you get the extra 10% off along with your academic discount? Did you have to pay tax since you call the order in? I can't seem to get my academic discount when i click on the red tag its almost like a different store or cart.
i want to order online so i have no tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-scott
i want to order online so i have no tax!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-scott
saxmonster said:
I think it depends on your UNI. From my Mac at UNI (work) I can get access to a cheaper education site than I can from my home Mac. It is something to do with a combined sales agreement with UNI's that have .ac.uk I think.
Sorry if you are in the US I have no idea how it works over there.
G.Kirby said:TS were right about the PMac bumps, wonder if we will see iMac and eMac bumps tomorrow.
Gosh, I hope so! Otherwise I guess it would be Tuesday of next week.