PowerPC Macs Are Useless...

[z970]

I really wouldn't use an office suite in alpha just because it's newer.

v4 from PPCAppStore is fine. It won't spontaneously crash and lose all your data.

 

[kasuja00]

I really wouldn't use an office suite in alpha just because it's newer.

v4 from PPCAppStore is fine. It won't crash and lose all your data.

I agree, i have 4.0.6 and it's fast and reliable

 

[Traace]

There are dev and Alpha Builds of LibreOffice 5 and I think even 6 for PPC Macs, I just cannot find a link right now. Maybe later

https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/manulix/other/libreoffice/

 

[amagichnich]

https://ftp.osuosl.org/pub/manulix/other/libreoffice/

Thanks a lot, that's what I meant!

 

[brdeveloper]

Intel Mac owners are currently facing the same problems PPC users have. Besides outdated browsers, OSX (pre-macOS) users have issues to get older peripherals working. My Nikon Coolscan V requires Rosetta, which was last distributed with Snow Leopard. My Fast Track Pro doesn't work properly (with all of its features) since Yosemite. Apple insists on changing the way drivers have to be made every OS version.

Intel Mac owners can always dual boot older and newer OS, and my older Macs (a unibody macbook 2009 and a macmini 2010) can run HighSierra, but in a couple of years AppStore will start blocking downloads for them.

And this introduces the last problem I have with Apple ecosystem: how can I download the last app version that is supported by Snow Leopard? I need to deal with unreliable software repositories on the web, that is, I'm pushed to not safe download practices, although I have bought licenses for using that stuff.

This behaviour also pushes users of older hardware to piracy, or perhaps to self-convince that Logic 9 is a kind of abandonware and could be freely downloaded.

In the iOS world, I have a highest spec iPad Mini 1 (64GB/Gsm) which runs iOS 9. I tried to download everything I could at AppStore, so those apps will be allowed to download in the future (hopefully). Otherwise, I'd be locked to software I already owned when Apple decided that iOS 9 was obsolete.

I also have subscriptions at iCloud and Apple Music... Apple should make more of this kind of money and leave our old Macs/iStuff alone.

 

[DaKKs]

anyone know if PPCappstore can be fooled into not checking for os? I love this app on my G4. Most of these apps are universal and what works on 10.5(intel) works most of the time on 10.6 and 10.7 as well. I'm dualbooting 10.6 and 10.7 on my intel mini and wanted to try it out.

 

[sparty411]

Intel Mac owners are currently facing the same problems PPC users have. Besides outdated browsers, OSX (pre-macOS) users have issues to get older peripherals working. My Nikon Coolscan V requires Rosetta, which was last distributed with Snow Leopard. My Fast Track Pro doesn't work properly (with all of its features) since Yosemite. Apple insists on changing the way drivers have to be made every OS version.

Intel Mac owners can always dual boot older and newer OS, and my older Macs (a unibody macbook 2009 and a macmini 2010) can run HighSierra, but in a couple of years AppStore will start blocking downloads for them.

And this introduces the last problem I have with Apple ecosystem: how can I download the last app version that is supported by Snow Leopard? I need to deal with unreliable software repositories on the web, that is, I'm pushed to not safe download practices, although I have bought licenses for using that stuff.

This behaviour also pushes users of older hardware to piracy, or perhaps to self-convince that Logic 9 is a kind of abandonware and could be freely downloaded.

In the iOS world, I have a highest spec iPad Mini 1 (64GB/Gsm) which runs iOS 9. I tried to download everything I could at AppStore, so those apps will be allowed to download in the future (hopefully). Otherwise, I'd be locked to software I already owned when Apple decided that iOS 9 was obsolete.

I also have subscriptions at iCloud and Apple Music... Apple should make more of this kind of money and leave our old Macs/iStuff alone.

Open source software is the solution to most of the problems you've listed. Where it's possible, society as a whole needs to reject propriety software, and be more willing to adopt open standards.

 

[z970]

Open source software is the solution to most of the problems you've listed. Where it's possible, society as a whole needs to reject propriety software, and be more willing to adopt open standards.

Finally, someone who has seen the light...

 

[TheShortTimer]

I constantly see it on FB with some LEM users, and the "MacProUpgrade" group. I've been almost shunned by posting about my 2008 3,1 Mac Pro there.

Good thread!

I too have noticed this in various FB Mac groups, particularly in LEM - which is ironic, considering that its stated focus includes getting the best out of "aging Macs." Many posters on there determine the lifespan of their Macs according to availability of updates and access to OS releases. Just in the past few days, I saw a post that advised people to "move on" from their operating system once the updates cease. Suppose you can't move on because no upgrade pathway exists or an upgrade would be counter-productive due to the introduction of incompatibilities and performance issues?

According to that logic, 70% of my computers should be disposed of because the software that they run under was superseded years ago! Never mind that you could put an unsupported computer behind an old PC running Smoothwall or IPFire for when you want to go online. Or that it could continue to carry out its tasks within an air-gapped scenario: which is what I've done with one of my WinBoxes that requires no Internet access, ever.

Those types of people that buy into that business model, I find are not too intelligent. I feel that the quality control decline has gone down as well because they've realized the people dumb enough to buy into said business model are also dumb enough to keep paying for repairs or machine replacements, after their super extended apple care runs out.

Apple has adopted the philosophy of a fashion/lifestyle organisation that markets seasonal products to a consumer base that will discard them once the season finishes, in favour of the latest season of shiny, status-symbol fashion-pieces. In a similar vein to how Microsoft had distorted the public's perception of computing as an experience in which heavily bugged, fragile and insecure programs are the norm, Apple are now distorting the perception of computers as restrictive, stripped down of functionality and disposable. This is problematic because the industry are following their lead in many aspects and the apologists will parrot, "Well their competitors are doing the same thing!"

 

[timidpimpin]

I would argue that someone who thinks any computer is useless is quite useless them self.

 

[Appleuser201]

I find PPC macs very useful If nothing other than they can usually be had for very cheap, and make a good reliable basic computer for various tasks.

They are VERY limited by software. It agrivates me actually. Leopard; is a very modern OS even by todays standards. There is absoutly no reason why it, or even Tiger can't be useable. The reason is because apples software support sucks, and worse than ever. 10.11 is now dead in the water to them. Windows 7 came out in 2009. 2009. And is still supported by not only Microsoft, but by just about every other software developer out there. And it runs on everything! (So does 10, but for the purpose of OS age 7 was a better example). I've run 7 on as slow as a 600Mhz Pentium 3 ThinkPad with 256mb of ram. Aside from slow graphics from the Rage 128 it had, it was a solid basic use computer.
FireFox just dropped Windows XP support last year, a good 5 years after Microsoft did. FireFox didn't even support leopard past what, version 4?
Moral of my rant is; I can take a PC from 2001 and run the latest versions of all the web browsers or whatever else, with a 10 year old OS and be perfectly fine with it. Try to do the same on a Mac of equal age is tedious and a job for only enthusiasts. Why? because apple says the OS is too old. That's literally it.

Just to clarify, Firefox 4 never made it to PPC at all, only intel Leopard. So stupid, right?
Apple declared Leopard ''EOL'' in 2011 officially making even the quad G5 obsolete. Google never supported PPC with it's Chrome browser first released in 2008. Not that I care, Chrome is a piece of junk but still...

 

[psychicist]

Just to clarify, Firefox 4 never made it to PPC at all, only intel Leopard. So stupid, right?
Apple declared Leopard ''EOL'' in 2011 officially making even the quad G5 obsolete. Google never supported PPC with it's Chrome browser first released in 2008. Not that I care, Chrome is a piece of junk but still...

The burden is entirely on Apple to provide an updated operating system for the hardware or let the community provide support for it, if the company feels it can't handle the responsibility. I understand that for many years there was no hardware to target or speed up development, but that was also of their own doing. They bought P.A. Semi and had the engineers create ARM chips for their phones and tablets instead of developing POWER chips for their laptops and desktops.

On the Linux side we can still run the latest software including Firefox 68 on the same hardware Apple deemed obsolete a decade ago. The upgrade path is also not to Apple Intel Macs but to systems such as Talos II, Blackbird and whatever other parties in the OpenPOWER ecosystem will come up with over the next few years. Maybe if we get lucky Apple will make a comeback with POWER, but I will only believe it when I see it.

As for Chome, I have stopped using it for almost everything and am generally happy with the current state of Firefox as a working browser across all my desktops, laptops and mobile devices.

 

[z970]

Maybe if we get lucky Apple will make a comeback with POWER, but I will only believe it when I see it.

Modern Apple's entire business model is completely counter to everything POWER stands for, especially given its new management at The Linux Foundation. Quite simply, it's not going to happen.

If we are unfortunate and Apple makes a comeback with POWER, they'll be sure to either gimp it, or implement some kind of proprietary, "secure" implementation maybe taking similar cues to their T[erminator]2 chip, which would also naturally follow the path of their special Ax mobile chips.

Given the current landscape, Linux / BSD on OpenPOWER is the natural successor to OS X on PowerPC.

I just don't see any other route.

 

[Appleuser201]

The burden is entirely on Apple to provide an updated operating system for the hardware or let the community provide support for it, if the company feels it can't handle the responsibility. I understand that for many years there was no hardware to target or speed up development, but that was also of their own doing. They bought P.A. Semi and had the engineers create ARM chips for their phones and tablets instead of developing POWER chips for their laptops and desktops.

On the Linux side we can still run the latest software including Firefox 68 on the same hardware Apple deemed obsolete a decade ago. The upgrade path is also not to Apple Intel Macs but to systems such as Talos II, Blackbird and whatever other parties in the OpenPOWER ecosystem will come up with over the next few years. Maybe if we get lucky Apple will make a comeback with POWER, but I will only believe it when I see it.

As for Chome, I have stopped using it for almost everything and am generally happy with the current state of Firefox as a working browser across all my desktops, laptops and mobile devices.

I thought FF68 on PPC linux was buggy to the point of being unusable? FF52 runs fine though.

 

[z970]

I thought FF68 on PPC linux was buggy to the point of being unusable? FF52 runs fine though.

It is buggy. Yes.

But technically, it runs, and that was the point.

All it needs are some fixes and patches.

 

[Appleuser201]

It is buggy. Yes.

But technically, it runs, and that was the point.

All it needs are some fixes and patches.

If it were possible, TenFourFox Quantum (FF68) would be cool... but due to many serious issues on Apple's end with OS X, TFF was never able to be updated past FF45.

 

[swamprock]

It is buggy. Yes.

But technically, it runs, and that was the point.

All it needs are some fixes and patches.

The Rust compiler is broken in PPC, and Adrian was working on fixing it, but then Arctic Fox and Spiderweb showed up. I think (although I'm not sure) that he switched his priority to fixing the broken Grub under PPC for now.

 

[Appleuser201]

The Rust compiler is broken in PPC, and Adrian was working on fixing it, but then Arctic Fox and Spiderweb showed up. I think (although I'm not sure) that he switched his priority to fixing the broken Grub under PPC for now.

For now, while we wait, we have many great browsers including FF52. I like the old Firefox design better anyways although it would never be my first browser choice as their are faster lighter ones out there (spiderweb)

 

[TheShortTimer]

I recently replied to someone on the Low End Mac Facebook page who when responding to someone's query about a G5 used for music production, declared the Powermac G5 as, "useless."

There's yet another similarly peculiar post on that page, with someone asking G5 users, "What is the purpose of a G5 other than global warming?" on the grounds that a, "5 year old netbook for less than $50 that you can load Linux on", will "outperform a G5 quad."

 

[z970]

There's yet another similarly peculiar post on that page, with someone asking G5 users, "What is the purpose of a G5 other than global warming?"

He's too far off the deep end for help.

Especially if the netbook is single core.

However, I will humor him:

"The purpose of a G5 is to kick your Wintel netbook's a$$ in C00I F@CT0R."

Just like the SGI workstations, these PowerPC machines absolutely shred in sheer personality and style, which only the Talos II has since come close to meeting.

Long live MIPS / POWER!

 

[Dronecatcher]

There's yet another similarly peculiar post on that page, with someone asking G5 users, "What is the purpose of a G5 other than global warming?" on the grounds that a, "5 year old netbook for less than $50 that you can load Linux on", will "outperform a G5 quad."

The OP got fairly battered from a tide of G5 users though

 

[Haemoglobin]

I don’t think they are useless at all, unfortunately society has metamorphosed over the years. To the point at which the adage “make do and mend” is almost alien to most under 30. We live in a time where people throw away a year old phone like a pair of old shoes.
To me, I find it frankly disgusting, but what do I know? I’m an ageing 39 year old guy who regularly listens to his 30+ year old records. Because no matter how many people tell me streaming is the way to go. I like the old fashioned human ritual of holding the album in my hand and knowing that so long as there’s power, I don’t need an internet connection to access my music. £9.99 a month for Spotify, £25 for internet, so over £30 a month for easy access to music. Convenient? Yes, cheap it ain’t. A shelf costs less and I just get out the chair on put the album in the hi-fi lol

Apple used to be about bringing computers to people who didn’t realise what they were missing, changing their lives through technology. Least that is the impression one gets from interviews, documentaries, Pirates of Silicon Valley, Jobs etc etc. Woz wanted to make a cool computer for everyone to enjoy, Jobs maybe saw it as an opportunity, a form of expression, who really knows *shrug* One thing for certain, it ain’t the company it used to be. Apple used to be the expensive computer few of my friends could afford, but really wished they had. The first time I used a desktop PPC Performa at collage was 1997, it was light years ahead of the Windows 95 system I had a home.

The only real limitation is software, as other have said. The hardware is more than capable of getting the job done, albeit a little slowler than modern tech on occasion.

 

[Dronecatcher]

We live in a time where people throw away a year old phone like a pair of old shoes.

The only issue I have with sticking with the old is that the window of opportunity for utilising redundant tech/platforms is dwindlng fast. Nearly everything past 15 years old is seen as vintage/collectors material now.

I'm with you regarding online music - having my entire collection dangling on the end of an internet connection with no backup is not a route I ever want to go down.

 

[Appleuser201]

The OP got fairly battered from a tide of G5 users though

I dont think he is recovering from this attack though!

 

[AL1630]

I used to have an intel Atom powered netbook. That thing was so terrible I think it's outperformed by a Clamshell G3, even on the internet.

I agree that people are too quick to write off aging technology. The work of great people on the MR forums and others have allowed my Mac Pro and white Macbook to see over 10 years of regular use, not to mention PPC macs! My daily driver phone is a Galaxy S5. I think people miss how much money they could save by using a device that's just a couple years older and can still do everything they need.