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Pre-Release PowerMac/XServe Replacement CPU Benchmarks?

Damn. The entire Mac lineup is going to be smokin' fast.

The benchmarks are showing that the freaking consumer laptop Macbook is outperforming the Dual 2.0 G5s.

Just think about what the Powermac is going to be like with Intel's desktop chips.....😱
 
We will probably get the Conroe desktop processor and Apple will continue charging us $3,000 for a top of the line PowerMac or whatever they call it.

I hope we get the XEON equivalent, but that probably won't happen.
 
JurgenWigg said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Merom the notebook/portable chip, whereas Conroe is the desktop chip? Why would they put Merom in an iMac??
Click to expand...


Because the chip currently housed in the iMac is also a notebook chip, and they are pin compatible.

However id love the iMac to be refreshed with Conroe
 
Glen Quagmire said:
Why won't Woodcrest feature in an Intel-powered Mac Pro? If they use Conroe, Apple will be going from a dual CPU, dual core workstation to a single CPU, dual core computer. Hardly an impressive comparison: "Yes, it's brand new but it's got half as many CPUs and cores as the G5 one, but they're quite quick, so you'll have to put up with it." Conroe would be a step backwards for the high-end Mac Pro. It would work fine as a low cost model, but for rendering tasks and the like, dual CPUs are a godsend.

What are these mythical $80 CPUs you talk of? Celerons? If you mean Conroe, Conroe is single CPU only (successor to the present Pentium 4). If you want duality of processors, you need Woodcrest.

The top of the range G5 costs $3299, if memory serves. The prices of the Intel machines have been the same or slightly more than the Power PC ones. Are Apple really going to charge $3299 for a computer with one lonely Conroe in it?
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1st of all the $80 was a typo i ment $800 at 3.0ghz per cpu, now that's seattled. I was referring to Woodcrest costing. well to call using a conroe a step backwards already tells me that you don't know anything about cpu architecture. Conroe and Woodcrest are the same CPU (think Athlon X2 and Opteron) just woodcrest is more rigorously tested for server certification.
Woodcrest would also need a dual socket motherboard and ecc-ram you have any Idea how much that will cost apple. they will have to sell that machine for $4000

read this then open your mouth

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2748

AMD 64 and G5 were pretty much equal clock 4 clock. so if i have a conroe that is already 20% faster at the same speed plus have an advantage of 500mhz on top of that. You are telling me I am taking a step backwards becuase i don't have a quad. Here I will break it down for you.

Quad 2.5ghz G5 have 1MB L2 dedicated per core x 4 for 4MB total cannot be shared

DC Core 2 at 3.0ghz 2MB L2 per core x 2 for 4MB total can be shared for a single app (Photoshop, FCP HD , etc.)

now lets get to the cpu ,

3.0ghz Conroe = 3.6ghz G5 when you add the 20% advantage. plus the shared L2 , now do u still think this is a down grade. you really think that Quadstill looks so good now.
 
Look, guys.

Apple has been giving us more not less, recently.

They're constantly speed bumping their machines, releasing notebooks with much faster CPU's than expected. (Not a single member on this site would have guess that apple would have put the CPU's they did in the MacBooks).

My point. Apple is not compromising anymore. They are going to put Woodcrest in the Mac Pro.

They need this to blow every PC system out of the water, and they need it to be "The worlds fastest personal computer".

They can't afford to put Conroe in it.
 
I don't know, do you think no CS3/native maters enough to hod back the release? I think they'd be more than happy to get the sales, no? I think, and I'm most likely wrong, that they'll offer PPC PM's in tandem with the Intel until the big kids get their software Universal (a' la' OS9 Macs held over in the transition)

Again, could be totally wrong, but there seems to be enough early adopters to warrant the release, myself included.

longofest said:
Doubtful. The processors will be available, but with Creative Suite still not native, QuarkXPress 7 not being Dual Binary until later this summer, and other pro apps being in a similar quandry, I think WWDC is still a good bet for replacement Powermacs.

XServe, on the other hand, is a totally different story. Just look at how long it has gone untouched. We very well could see an XServe refresh in the next month or two.
Click to expand...
 
This would be a great move on Apple's part. Their higher-end systems MUST use higher-end chips. Picture this...a dual-xeon type PowerMac with two 30" Apple Displays. Have OS X running on your main display and XP and Linux running natively in their own windows on the second display. They would all run faster at the same time than my 2.0GHz ThinkPad runs XP right now.

Can anyone say, "The Greatest Computer in the World!" ? I know I can.
 
MacBook Pro - Meron
iMac - Conroe
MacPro - Woodcrest

That's how Intel's positioning their chips, and that how it will be. Anyone who says different is smoking my uncle's "oregano". Only open questions are what will be in the Mac Mini and the future Macbooks. (Probably older Core Duos.)
 
jiggie2g said:
Woodcrest would also need a dual socket motherboard and ecc-ram you have any Idea how much that will cost apple. they will have to sell that machine for $4000
Click to expand...
Except that the current Powermacs already have a dual socket motherboard and ecc-ram and cost $3300.
 
tristan said:
MacBook Pro - Meron
iMac - Conroe
MacPro - Woodcrest

That's how Intel's positioning their chips, and that how it will be. Anyone who says different is smoking my uncle's "oregano". Only open questions are what will be in the Mac Mini and the future Macbooks. (Probably older Core Duos.)
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm betting that they differentiate the MacBook and Mini lines from the MacBook Pro, at least for awhile (the MacBook + Mini will use Yonah, whereas the MacBook Pro will use Merom)
 
manu chao said:
Except that the current Powermacs already have a dual socket motherboard and ecc-ram and cost $3300.
Click to expand...


Current Powermacs do not come with ECC-ram is it optional , on the Intel and AMD this is not an option but a requirement and upgrading the ram will cost you big time. Incase anyone remembers why the original Athlon 64FX 940pin failed for this exact reason.Also Dual socket x86 motherboards traditionally 2.5-3x as much as single socket versions.

I still don't get why people are so hard up in thses forums for Woodcrest IT'S THE SAME FREAKIN' CPU AS THE CONROE. save for the ability to use dual sockets. You will not see a performance boost unless u use dual sockets.

SpacemanBob said:
Conroe is going to end up in $800 Dell specials. The idea that Apple will be using it in $3300 towers is ludicrous.
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you mean like the X2's that occupy most $800 PC's that's just the nature of the PC market. The same AMD cpus that are in these bargin bin PC are the same ones in Server Class computers. just in larger quantities.

Opteron 170 = Athlon X2 4000+ (both 2.0ghz 2x 1mb L2 )

Operton = Athlon 64 / Woodcrest = Conroe
 
Core Trio said:
Because the chip currently housed in the iMac is also a notebook chip, and they are pin compatible.

However id love the iMac to be refreshed with Conroe
Click to expand...


I've been holding out on an iMac for this very reason.
 
jiggie2g said:
Woodcrest would also need a dual socket motherboard and ecc-ram you have any Idea how much that will cost apple. they will have to sell that machine for $4000
...
AMD 64 and G5 were pretty much equal clock 4 clock. so if i have a conroe that is already 20% faster at the same speed plus have an advantage of 500mhz on top of that. You are telling me I am taking a step backwards becuase i don't have a quad. Here I will break it down for you.

Quad 2.5ghz G5 have 1MB L2 dedicated per core x 4 for 4MB total cannot be shared

DC Core 2 at 3.0ghz 2MB L2 per core x 2 for 4MB total can be shared for a single app (Photoshop, FCP HD , etc.)

now lets get to the cpu ,

3.0ghz Conroe = 3.6ghz G5 when you add the 20% advantage. plus the shared L2 , now do u still think this is a down grade. you really think that Quadstill looks so good now.
Click to expand...

Some of what you say is good info and it's good to point out. Other parts I'm hoping you will explain a bit.

First the good parts. One of the BIG advantages of the Core architecture is the shared Cache as you point out.

But where are you finding this information that Woodcrest requires a dual-socket motherboard and ECC-RAM? Woodcrest is a dual-core CPU, and although ECC-ram would be good if you have mission-critical stuff, all indications is that Apple will build their next-gen PowerMac similar to today's version with it being able to accept either ECC or non-ECC.
 
longofest said:
Some of what you say is good info and it's good to point out. Other parts I'm hoping you will explain a bit.

First the good parts. One of the BIG advantages of the Core architecture is the shared Cache as you point out.

But where are you finding this information that Woodcrest requires a dual-socket motherboard and ECC-RAM? Woodcrest is a dual-core CPU, and although ECC-ram would be good if you have mission-critical stuff, all indications is that Apple will build their next-gen PowerMac similar to today's version with it being able to accept either ECC or non-ECC.
Click to expand...


answered in post above.
 
Any reviews that benchmark this?

Mike Teezie said:
Damn. The entire Mac lineup is going to be smokin' fast.

The benchmarks are showing that the freaking consumer laptop Macbook is outperforming the Dual 2.0 G5s.

Just think about what the Powermac is going to be like with Intel's desktop chips.....😱
Click to expand...

Got any links to any reviews that show this? Owning a dual 2.0 G5, I'm interested to see how it does against the MacBook Pro, maybe even the new MacBook.
 
i think the powermac replacement will be out before WWDC because it's already been announced that there will be a leopard preview. seems to me that they usually focus on one thing at the keynote. new powermacs AND leopard preview would be too much i think. they'll probably announce that all of their apps are universal and maybe have someone from MS and/or adobe come out and give a time frame. then they'll get into leopard. it will be good.
 
This is good news indeed.

Now for my perspective on what i would like to come out of the mac lineup once conroe, woodcrest and merom.

1. Mac mini - goes dual core yohan all around (possibly gets non-
integrated graphics)
2. MacBook - stays yohan but gets non integrated graphics
3. iMac - I hope they put conroe in them assuming heat and space are not
a problem.
4. MacBook Pro- goes merom and dual-layer DVD all around. (And
assuming the MacBooks stay with integrated graphics then a true
replacment for the 12in Powerbook).
5. Powermac(or whatever it will be called) - gets woodcrest with a single
dual core CPU in low end and dual dual core CPU in the two higher end.
6. XServe(or whatever it will be called) - gets woodcrest with dual dual
core CPU all the way around.

7. I think it would be nice to see something that has iMac specs but with a
PowerMac type setup. So it would have a conroe processor but there
would be space to upgrade graphics card and possibly one or two other
slots (to put a TV tuner card in or somehting else). These could start
at about $1,000.

That is my hope for the mac lineup once all of the new Intel processors come out.
 
Merom over Dual Core?

I've been waiting for a few months for the MacBook to be released, and amongst all this anticipation I now find that there is a potential for the Merom processor to replace the current dual-core chip. Just curious, but could someone please explain the major advantages of Merom? I mean, I'm an engineer and I'm going to use Windows on the Mac 1/4 time for specific apps, but...will Merom really be worth the wait?
 
You People are driving me Nuts

iMac will not use Conroe okay get it now please let it go. Power Mac will not use Woodcrest , maybe Xserve will.

iMac uses the socket 479pin that Yonah currently occupies this is infact pin compatible with the 479pin Merom , both work on a 667mhz FSB this will be plenty as Core 2 is not bandwidth starved. Conroe uses the socket LGA 775pin needs either a 965x-975x chipset to work and has higher voltage and dissipates 65watts compared to 35watts for Merom. why would apple over haul the imac for Conroe when all they need is a simple chip swap to boost performance with Merom

Woodcrest/Conroe/Merom = same freakin' core the difference is in the FSB on the chipset not the CPU itself.

Woodcrest = 1333FSB 80watts

Conroe = 1066/1333FSB for E6/XE chips 65-80watts(XE)

Merom = 667FSB 35watts T7 series

this is done for different reasons , Merom uses lower FSB for heat reason as it will be used in small enclosures(remember iMac G5), Conroe can go high in a desktop and operates at a higher freqency , Woodcrest is a server chip and this does not matter plus need the added nandwidth for multi-cpu setup.
 
Mike Teezie said:
Damn. The entire Mac lineup is going to be smokin' fast.

The benchmarks are showing that the freaking consumer laptop Macbook is outperforming the Dual 2.0 G5s.

Just think about what the Powermac is going to be like with Intel's desktop chips.....😱
Click to expand...

Even the high-end Mini are doing well against the Dual 2.0 G5. Perhaps soon the slowest new Mac on the planet will be faster than any G5 based Mac including the Quads. Having said that, I am happy with my Dual 2.0 G5 with it's monster graphics card taking up 2 slots and game play has been smooth. It won't retire to some old lady that just needs word processing, Mail, and Internet.
 
weitzner said:
i think the powermac replacement will be out before WWDC because it's already been announced that there will be a leopard preview. seems to me that they usually focus on one thing at the keynote. new powermacs AND leopard preview would be too much i think. they'll probably announce that all of their apps are universal and maybe have someone from MS and/or adobe come out and give a time frame. then they'll get into leopard. it will be good.
Click to expand...


You're forgetting "One More Thing..."

And then steve opens up the doors to the cabinet under the Apple Cinema display he was working on and reveals a redesigned Mac Pro, proceeds to click the "About This Mac" and reveals the server class intel processos inside. It will be a joyous moment.
 
longofest said:
Doubtful. The processors will be available, but with Creative Suite still not native, QuarkXPress 7 not being Dual Binary until later this summer, and other pro apps being in a similar quandry, I think WWDC is still a good bet for replacement Powermacs.

XServe, on the other hand, is a totally different story. Just look at how long it has gone untouched. We very well could see an XServe refresh in the next month or two.
Click to expand...


I thought QuarkXpress 7 was announced and released as a universal binary yesterday.
 
Core Trio said:
You're forgetting "One More Thing..."

And then steve opens up the doors to the cabinet under the Apple Cinema display he was working on and reveals a redesigned Mac Pro, proceeds to click the "About This Mac" and reveals the server class intel processos inside. It will be a joyous moment.
Click to expand...

Yes please.
 
4God said:
I thought QuarkXpress 7 was announced and released as a universal binary yesterday.
Click to expand...

No... XPress 7 is shipping initially as PPC-only. It will be updated to be Universal Binary in the summer.

jiggie2g said:
iMac will not use Conroe okay get it now please let it go. Power Mac will not use Woodcrest , maybe Xserve will.

iMac uses the socket 479pin that Yonah currently occupies this is infact pin compatible with the 479pin Merom , both work on a 667mhz FSB this will be plenty as Core 2 is not bandwidth starved. Conroe uses the socket LGA 775pin needs either a 965x-975x chipset to work and has higher voltage and dissipates 65watts compared to 35watts for Merom. why would apple over haul the imac for Conroe when all they need is a simple chip swap to boost performance with Merom

Woodcrest/Conroe/Merom = same freakin' core the difference is in the FSB on the chipset not the CPU itself.
Click to expand...

Good call on remembering about the iMac having the pin-compatible socket for Merom.

Woodcrest/Conroe/Merom are not only differentiated by FSB, but cache sizes as well. Yes, they are based off of the same architecture, but they do have differences.

Apple has gone to a 4-core system with the Quad. I think they will want to keep at least one system that has a 4-core setup, and Woodcrest is the only chip that is going to be able to be placed in a multi-CPU configuration to my knowledge. I'm still of the opinion that Woodcrest is heading towards a home in the PowerMac. Of course, I could be wrong, as could we all.

Looks like we have a difference of opinion.
 
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