Pre-Release PowerMac/XServe Replacement CPU Benchmarks?

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ArsTechnica provides a summary of some recent pre-release benchmarks of Intel's upcoming Woodcrest chip, and reports that gains of 15-40% are typical over Intel's latest Xeon-class chip (code-named Dempsey).

Woodcrest represents the top of Intel's upcoming Core 2 lineup and is targeted at "server and workstation" markets. Most speculation has centered around Apple using Intel's Conroe Core 2 "desktop" chip, but a recent page 2 rumor indicated that Woodcrest could also be in consideration. Previously Apple compared its top-of-the-line PowerMacs to Xeon-class machines.

Anandtech recently provided a sneak peek at preliminary benchmarks between Intel's Conroe compared to an overclocked AMD Athlon X2. Conroe consistently beat the AMD system, however the systems were set up by Intel. While the reviewer did not see anything fishy on the surface, the results should be taken with a grain of salt.

Currently, Woodcrest is expected next month with Conroe expected to arrive in July 2006.
 

longofest

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Jul 10, 2003
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silvergunuk said:
Looks Like The Mac Pro's Could Be Here Within A Month. Lovely!
Doubtful. The processors will be available, but with Creative Suite still not native, QuarkXPress 7 not being Dual Binary until later this summer, and other pro apps being in a similar quandry, I think WWDC is still a good bet for replacement Powermacs.

XServe, on the other hand, is a totally different story. Just look at how long it has gone untouched. We very well could see an XServe refresh in the next month or two.
 

sluthy

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May 13, 2002
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Hmm, what do you reckon?

Merom - Mac mini, iMac
Conroe - Powermac (or simply Mac now?)
Woodcrest - xServe

or possibly:

Merom - Mac mini
Conroe - iMac
Woodcrest - PowerMac, xServe

or even forgo Conroe altogether:

Merom - Mac mini, iMac
Woodcrest - PowerMac, xServe

or maybe...

Merom - Mac mini, iMac
Conroe - 'Mac'?
Woodcrest - PowerMac, xServe

Maybe the 'PowerMac' will move entirely into the Woodcrest server market (to the point where it and the xServe are only a form-factor apart) leaving room for a new headless Conroe 'Mac', for creative/business 'prosumer' types who don't require server power but need more expandability and choice than an iMac? Or is that lineup too crowded and overlapped?

EDIT: Forgive me, it's 3.15AM and I'm wired doing an assembly language assignment, so if I'm rambling...
 

bigbossbmb

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longofest said:
Doubtful. The processors will be available, but with Creative Suite still not native, QuarkXPress 7 not being Dual Binary until later this summer, and other pro apps being in a similar quandry, I think WWDC is still a good bet for replacement Powermacs.

XServe, on the other hand, is a totally different story. Just look at how long it has gone untouched. We very well could see an XServe refresh in the next month or two.
XServe, definitely as soon as the chips are available... But I think that Apple will release their pro desktop at this time too. There are tons of film and video people itching for these machines. Also CS might run under rosetta fairly well with these chips' speed.
 

vmardian

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Oct 20, 2005
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longofest said:
Doubtful. The processors will be available, but with Creative Suite still not native, QuarkXPress 7 not being Dual Binary until later this summer, and other pro apps being in a similar quandry, I think WWDC is still a good bet for replacement Powermacs.

XServe, on the other hand, is a totally different story. Just look at how long it has gone untouched. We very well could see an XServe refresh in the next month or two.
Almost every single Apple Pro App is universal. Lightroom is also universal.
 

ImAlwaysRight

macrumors 6502a
Haven't seen too many Power Mac rumors. I, for one, would think Apple would use the new chips as an opportunity to give the Power Mac a redesign. Maybe not too drastic, but along the lines of the iBook --> MacBook redesign. At least this time it looks like Apple could announce the new Power Macs in the summer and have them shipping almost immediately. At least not a late September/early Oct. release that happened when the G5 Power Macs came out, which was a delay of 2-3 months.
 

zwilliams07

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Dec 16, 2004
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I hope this does bode for a quicker release of a Mac Pro (PowerMac). Its the only reason I'm holding off on making an Intel Mac purchase.

Last time I bought a Mac was an iBook G3/700 back in Summer of 2002.

Gawd I need a new machine.

I think it would be more reasonable for Apple to have it set up as

Merom - MacBook, MacMini, MacBook Pro
Conroe - iMac, (maybe upper MacBook Pro)
Woodcrest - MacPro, Xserve

Remember the G5 was a Server class chip, and it is in both PowerMacs and Xserves.
 

longofest

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vmardian said:
Almost every single Apple Pro App is universal. Lightroom is also universal.
Not all of the creative world runs on Apple's software solutions.


As for what I personally see future lineups as, I think Conroe is actually going to end up in the iMac. So here is what you'd see:

Merom: Macbook/Macbook pro (once they transition from Yonah)
Conroe: Mac Mini and iMac... Mac Mini might end up in Merom line...
Woodcrest: Mac Pro and XServe

The only reason I think you are seeing the iMac and Mac Mini using Yonah is because Apple wanted to transition those first, and Yonah was the first Core-architecture based chip out. Yonah, however, is meant for laptops, so I think once Apple has a desktop chip available to it (especially one that is designed to allow for thin-form factor like Conroe), they will use it.
 

mikemodena

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May 30, 2005
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Can't wait to make my intel transition to a Mac Pro from my current PowerMac. I'm currently selling my iBook now to get a MacBook.
 

jiggie2g

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Apr 12, 2003
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Wake Up

Woodcrest is not nor will it ever see daylight in a power mac/Mac Pro. Conroe will do just fine and from most benchmarks it out performs the Athlon X2 by atleast 20% clock 4 clock. Hate to break It to you but the dual socket days are over for Desktop macs. You really think apple is gonna put is gonna put 2 $80 cpu's in a prosumer machine....not. maybe in an Xserve but not a mac pro. here's how it will break down. iMac will use Merom as it is already pin compatible with the current Core duo mobile chips. no need to change the motherboard.

MacMini / Core Duo 1.86-2.0 2MB L2

Macbook / Core Duo 2.16-2.33 2MB L2

iMac / Core 2 Duo(merom) 2.16-2.33 4MB L2

Macbook Pro / Core 2 Duo(merom) 2.1-2.33 4MB L2

Mac Pro / Core 2 Duo(Conroe) 2.4-2.67 and 2.93 XE 4MB L2

Incase you are wondering why I placed the Macbook and Macbook Pro at the same speed , please note that Core 2 has an advantage of 20% over Core 1 clock 4 clock not to mention the advantage of having double the L2 cache. The core 1 still is slated to clock up to 2.33 ghz i see the chip becoming thier new value chip(think Celeron but better) for lower end machines.
 

Glen Quagmire

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Jan 6, 2006
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Mac Mini: Merom
MacBook: Merom
MacBook Pro: Merom
iMac: Merom, or Conroe if it runs cool enough.
Mac Pro: Conroe (single CPU) for a low-end model, Woodcrest for the high-end (dual CPU) ones.
XServe: Woodcrest.

I'll take a Woodcrest-powered Mac Pro, please, and bid a fond farewell to my Mac Mini and a not quite-so-fond farewell to my trusty four year old Xeon-powered PC.
 

NVRsayNVR

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Jun 11, 2005
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combatcolin said:
Anyone else geting that Monty Python "GET ON WITH IT" feeling?

:p
YEAH! Let's get it on already! Boost that stock up so I can cash in and get some new gear! Talk is cheap... Announcement the damn thing! :mad: :D :D

"Think Alike... BE Different!"
 

JurgenWigg

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May 20, 2006
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sluthy said:
Hmm, what do you reckon?

Merom - Mac mini, iMac
Conroe - Powermac (or simply Mac now?)
Woodcrest - xServe

Someone correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Merom the notebook/portable chip, whereas Conroe is the desktop chip? Why would they put Merom in an iMac??
 

macgeek2005

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Jan 31, 2006
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JurgenWigg said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Merom the notebook/portable chip, whereas Conroe is the desktop chip? Why would they put Merom in an iMac??
Because the iMac is a desktop.
 

jiggie2g

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Apr 12, 2003
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JurgenWigg said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Merom the notebook/portable chip, whereas Conroe is the desktop chip? Why would they put Merom in an iMac??

Because the iMac already contains a notebook cpu in Yonah , has a small enclosure which requires lower thermal output and merom is pin compatible with Yonah so this is just a more logical step, for apple to put in a conroe it would require a redesign of the motherboard and cooling with merom it's just a chip swap.
 

Glen Quagmire

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jiggie2g said:
Woodcrest is not nor will it ever see daylight in a power mac/Mac Pro. Conroe will do just fine and from most benchmarks it out performs the Athlon X2 by atleast 20% clock 4 clock. Hate to break It to you but the dual socket days are over for Desktop macs. You really think apple is gonna put is gonna put 2 $80 cpu's in a prosumer machine....not. maybe in an Xserve but not a mac pro. here's how it will break down. iMac will use Merom as it is already pin compatible with the current Core duo mobile chips. no need to change the motherboard.
Why won't Woodcrest feature in an Intel-powered Mac Pro? If they use Conroe, Apple will be going from a dual CPU, dual core workstation to a single CPU, dual core computer. Hardly an impressive comparison: "Yes, it's brand new but it's got half as many CPUs and cores as the G5 one, but they're quite quick, so you'll have to put up with it." Conroe would be a step backwards for the high-end Mac Pro. It would work fine as a low cost model, but for rendering tasks and the like, dual CPUs are a godsend.

What are these mythical $80 CPUs you talk of? Celerons? If you mean Conroe, Conroe is single CPU only (successor to the present Pentium 4). If you want duality of processors, you need Woodcrest.

The top of the range G5 costs $3299, if memory serves. The prices of the Intel machines have been the same or slightly more than the Power PC ones. Are Apple really going to charge $3299 for a computer with one lonely Conroe in it?
 

milo

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Sep 23, 2003
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JurgenWigg said:
Someone correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't Merom the notebook/portable chip, whereas Conroe is the desktop chip? Why would they put Merom in an iMac??
The same reasons they put yonah (a laptop chip) in the iMac. Cooling, power consumption, cost and availability.
 

ZnU

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May 24, 2006
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Woodcrest is not nor will it ever see daylight in a power mac/Mac Pro. Conroe will do just fine and from most benchmarks it out performs the Athlon X2 by atleast 20% clock 4 clock. Hate to break It to you but the dual socket days are over for Desktop macs. You really think apple is gonna put is gonna put 2 $80 cpu's in a prosumer machine....not.​

This is complete nonsense. Conroe is the Pentium 4 replacement. Woodcrest is the Xeon replacement. Apple's towers start at $2000. Go look at $2000 machines from other x86 vendors like Dell or HP, and see whether they have Xeon or Pentium chips in them.

Anyway, Woodcrest doesn't start at $800. Yes, the most expensive (3 GHz) chip will be $850, but as the pricelist on this page shows, Woodcrest will start all the way down at 1.6 GHz, for $230, which is cheaper than all but one of the Conroe chip models! Woodcrest will allow Apple to expand the towers upwards in the market if they want to, but Apple can also use the chip without any problems at their current price points.

I'm also not sure why you describe the towers as 'prosumer'. Five years ago, maybe that was the case, but these days, particularly in the x86 world where Apple now lives, machines in that price range are not really consumer machines. (Except, possibly, when they're high-end gaming machines, but that's not going to be the case for Apple's towers, just because of the OS X game availability situation.)

Conroe is going to end up in $800 Dell specials. The idea that Apple will be using it in $3300 towers is ludicrous.
 

starnox

macrumors 6502
Apr 15, 2005
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I think they will use woodcrest in Mac Pro, after all the fuss Apple has been making about the Core Duo having two cores, I don't think they could turn around and stick a single processor in their top model machine. Like something said they put a G5 in the PowerMac and Xserve, so why not put a woodcrest in a Mac Pro and Xserve (or maybe MacServe :p)
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
longofest said:
XServe, on the other hand, is a totally different story. Just look at how long it has gone untouched. We very well could see an XServe refresh in the next month or two.
I am wondering what the real world performance increase will be from now to that? Perhaps over 2x in real world performance if all the rumors and tech reports are near accurate.

Will we see YA Apple branded attempt at the supercomputer prize?

I want to see Apple market 4U desktop/floortop systems to uber gamers :)

Rocketman