President Biden Signs Executive Order Revoking Trump-Era Ban on TikTok and WeChat

[katewes]

Actual forensic dumps exists? Where?

The forensic report by Russell Ramsland, for Antrim County, is somewhere on the internet. I downloaded it. Now, of course, the fact checkers say it is nonsese.

Ok.

But what if the Maricopa Audit shows the same behavior in the machines.

Still, people can say it is nonsense.

But if the next 6 months, if more audits are done in the battleground states, and it shows the same machine behavior, at what point do you start to say -- I'll go back to the Senate Hearings and see the pattern of agreement between what the witnesses were saying, and what the string of audits will corroborate.

 

[ninethirty]

What planet are you on? Compare Biden speeches in 2008 and 2020. He’s a complete and utter buffoon who has serious cognitive decline and the DNC ought to be ashamed as the “party of diversity” putting another old white man in office When they had far better candidates. Of course this is the part where you bring up Trump and Republicans by assuming I support Trump and/or the Republican Party. 🙄 Anyone who thinks Biden is fit for president has some serious soul searching, and Kamala Harris couldn’t be more shallow and less fit for VP.

The DNC didn't put an old white man in office. Voters did.

 

[Rafterman]

This is why I like to look at this as a scientist. If the test results show fraud at the level of the paper fibers, then do I believe the test results, or do I believe the assertions that it was by Trump supporters etc. There comes a time when a person looks at evidence -- or refuses to.

Testing it at the level of the paper fiber of the ballots will show if they were marked by pen, or printed fraudulently by a printer.

In the midst of partisan warfare, I encourage you to look at the presentation of factual information.

When one party presents information, look at it. Don't say "I refuse to see the information because the other side is biased". If you are to dismiss it, at least see it first before dismissing it.

There was no evidence of fraud, or of incorrct paper or anything. It's all nonsense. And if Trump was robbbed, why weren't all the races in the country affected, even though they are all on the same ballots and paper? Why weren't Senate and House seats also changed too, to give the Democrats a bigger win? They lost House seats and barely eeked out a Senate majority. The conspiracy makes no sense.

I really don't understand how you people think that Trump, who couldn't even poll higher than 49 percent approval in right wing slanted polls like Fox News, couldn't possibly lose the election, which is basically a popularity contest. Why is that such shock to you that you have to grasp at these ridiculous straws?

 

[katewes]

There was no evidence of fraud, or of incorrct paper or anything. It's all nonsense. And if Trump was robbbed, why weren't all the races in the country affected, even though they are all on the same ballots and paper? Why weren't Senate and House seats also changed too, to give the Democrats a bigger win? They lost House seats and barely eeked out a Senate majority. The conspiracy makes no sense.

I really don't understand how you people think that Trump, who couldn't even poll higher than 49 percent approval in right wing slanted polls like Fox News, couldn't possibly lose the election, which is basically a popularity contest. Why is that such shock to you that you have to grasp at these ridiculous straws?

I listened to the 40+ hours of witness testimony in the Senate Hearings for PA, AZ, MI, GA and MI. Did you?

Over the months, the data emerging, nothing I've heard contradicts the witness testimony.

The Antrim County forensic testing of the machines hinted at what the machines were doing.

Now, the Maricopa County audit is coming to completion.

People can say there is no evidence -- and information keeps coming - and people keep saying there is no evidence. At some point, early adopters will start to read the information. Late adopters will come later.

In January 2020, it was easy to dismiss the evidence by saying the witnesses were lying or didn't understand what they saw. Now, a year and a half later, we are getting to the level of getting evidence at the machine coding level. At what point do people keep saying "there is no evidence", or do they say, ok, I'll start seeing the information objectively.

 

[Rafterman]

The forensic report by Russell Ramsland, for Antrim County, is somewhere on the internet. I downloaded it. Now, of course, the fact checkers say it is nonsese.

How an obscure Texas security company helped convince Americans the 2020 election was stolen from Trump

Russell J. Ramsland Jr. has sold everything from Tex-Mex food to a light-therapy technology. Starting two years ago, he helped sell the notion that votes in U.S. elections were being manipulated.

www.washingtonpost.com

 

[Rafterman]

I listened to the 40+ hours of witness testimony in the Senate Hearings for PA, AZ, MI, GA and MI. Did you?

Over the months, the data emerging, nothing I've heard contradicts the witness testimony.

The Antrim County forensic testing of the machines hinted at what the machines were doing.

Now, the Maricopa County audit is coming to completion.

People can say there is no evidence -- and information keeps coming - and people keep saying there is no evidence. At some point, early adopters will start to read the information. Late adopters will come later.

Except it's fraudulent information that keeps coming in. There was a steal in 2020. Except it's the GOP that's trying to steal it.

Trump lost the popular vote in 2016, yet no Republican claimed fraud - because Trump won the electroal college. Now its 2020 and he loses the popular vote again, except this time also the electoral college. Now suddenly it's fraud, despite similar voting results and patterns compared to 2016?

 

[katewes]

How an obscure Texas security company helped convince Americans the 2020 election was stolen from Trump

Russell J. Ramsland Jr. has sold everything from Tex-Mex food to a light-therapy technology. Starting two years ago, he helped sell the notion that votes in U.S. elections were being manipulated.

www.washingtonpost.com

If your team slanders the auditors, do you believe the slander, or do you test the information at the evidence level? Do you test the accusation, or do you automatically believe anything negative that is said against the other side. It comes down to whether the American people have the skill to navigate through the fog of war, of slander coming from both sides, and test it at the level of facts.

 

[Grohowiak]

Could you point to a peer reviewed publication in a journal or conference that is confirming this?
Or is this based on your opinion?

While debatable, at this point all the data points at this conclusion.
Like I said and you're bouncing the question back without answer. Show me the research that I am wrong and I'll retract this statement.

Never, really never quote from wikipedia. In the scientific world listing wikipedia as a source is completely ruining your credibility.

Research bytedance and how business is conducted in China. Just ring any lawyer that helps to set up US business to cooperate with China and you'll know.
If posting a link about a known fact ruins my internet credibility while completely exposing your ignorance then I'm ok with it.

They are not banned there for the reason of security, they are banned for political reasons.
If you're saying you want to ban TikTok for political or personal reasons, that's a whole different game. Trump used security as a reason to attack TikTok, while in reality it's personal. If we're talking about personal/political reasons, then lets ban Microsoft because I don't like Windows and while we're at it anchovy pizza too because I don't like anchovies.

This makes no sense what so ever.
Political party views foreign data as invasive and bans it. To you this might be political to them this might be a security threat against globalized access to information that then can be used to to manipulate people. US is THE perfect example how easy people fall in line when some catchy headline of their favorite media / political party is at play. Both democrats and republican's act absolutely identical. Only difference is the subject of their focus.
This a universal truth.

I'll refrain from commenting about Microsoft and pizza. Stunning examples...

Again, any tech is invasive. You have to look at what data is collected and if that data is somehow relevant to security. Is the information what iPhone and iOS version I'm using in any way a threat to security? No it isn't, assuming you keep your software update to close potential security holes. Is is problematic if companies know what apps I have installed? No it isn't, Apple knows as well what apps I have installed on my iPhones and iPads. How is security problematic if people know I'm running Postbox, Photoshop, Final Cut, Latex, Scrivener and DevonThink to name a few on macOS?

I gave you plenty examples showing that TikTok among ther apps is very invasive when it comes to data collection very often one that is not part of the app or apps focus.
If you copied your bitcoin key to move it to a different location and that key was copied from clipboard and sent to some random business database and one day you find you have no bitcoin then what? All peaches cause you are a researcher and said so?? lmao. That's theft right there but dumb laws and lobbying politicians do nothing about it.
How's that not a threat?

Again, you're looking at it from a political point of view and have a problem with the fact that it's a foreign government, the "enemy". How about the US government, do you have a problem that your data is collected there as well? If not, why not? If yes, why not ban the US sources as well? Same for Canada, Spain, Australia, ...

I think I was pretty clear that all practices like this should be banned. It's common sense. Doesn't matter where they come from.

The university I'm at is strictly non-profit, we have to prove where our (usually government) funding for research goes. We do collaborate on national and international levels with other universities, companies and research institutions, including NASA and ESA, so be careful I might be looking at you via a satellite in orbit.
We do not receive any type of funding from partners.

*About your university - I'll answer in the following quote

The "joke" about spying on people using government resources is even clearer representation of your leave TikTok alone crusade. If that is fundamentally ok then sure as hell it is ok for private entities to do same.
Now I understand it all lol. You are fine with mass population invigilation. I wonder which entity from the ones I posted shares your point of view...

However, we are not allowed to cooperate with universities, companies and research institutions or hire people from China, Russia and other countries with an authoritarian regime. There's a list of 57 countries we won't (as in not allowed) cooperate with for research purposes. We are allowed to cooperate with them when it comes to teaching and educations of students, including exchange students. This does include over 170 universities in 55 countries. This is limited to universities only, no companies or governments involved.

Hold on... YOU personally attend a institution that bans research and prohibits compensation workers based on their countries since they are labeled as authoritarian YET you dismiss ANY potential malicious intent from their affiliation with TikTok?

🤯🤯🤯🤯

Anyway I'll say it again. We need the government to step in and help regular folks here.
They mind find themselves under surveillance by satellites operated by university "researchers" let alone some social media apps lmao.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Your comments about proof and peer review as though they are absolutes and stand outside any social system.

Well, science should depend on hard facts and proof only.

Still, it's not as complicated as you make it out to be.

I don't think it's complicated at all. People claim that TikTok is collecting more data than what they state in their TOS. Should be very easy to proof, by finding data transferred to TikTok servers that are not listed in their TOS.

Whether someone likes the type or amount of data that is collected is a another story. If one doesn't like data collected as stated by TikTok, then don't use it. The same is true for Facebook and others. I personally don't use TikTok and I'm also not using Facebook. But... equal rights for everyone.

Whatever you think of those individual firms, it would be good to see this policy imbalance resolved in a way that didn't disadvantage the US.

Well, there should be no disadvantage for anyone for that matter. As I said, ban one, ban them all - if they do the same. So if TikTok would share data with the US government, then why not have Facebook share data with China? This can be applied to any company or government in the world.

Reality is, data is usually not shared. Data is collected by all companies and they clearly state so. The collected data is used to make money for the company.

Same rules for privacy. We don't need people protected in the US *or* Canada *or* Europe *or* China, we need proper security for *everyone* around the world. But in order to use modern technology, we have to accept that we're required to expose some of our personal information. Amazon for example know pretty well what I like, don't like and what I do. However, I would not give them the information from my last health checkup as that is none of their business.

The forensic report by Russell Ramsland, for Antrim County, is somewhere on the internet. I downloaded it. Now, of course, the fact checkers say it is nonsese.

Couldn't find it with a quick search. Only found some reports debunking it as it seems. Some sources say he's off by a factor of 10, which is a common mistake working with percentages. But again, I have not found any hard proof. The only real proof here would be a full dump of the machine. Is this mentioned in Ramslands report?

 

[Grohowiak]

None of this is actual scientific research, none is peer reviewed and published. These don't even have the proper form of peer reviewed research. But as you link to Penetrum, their security analysis (which they were paid for btw), has one thing going, even though it's outdated as it's based on older versions. There is reverse engineering in there, so you can exactly see what data TikTok is collecting in the app. Anyone can use Ghidra for this: https://ghidra-sre.org

You've shown that you do not understand how science actually works by posting articles from journalists and quoting from wikipedia as "scientific". Let me help you a little, as you make the same mistake as the Trump-nutjobs who demand prove that no voting fraud happened on large scale that cost Trump the election, when the only correct way is to prove that it did happen (which they can't do).

In science you don't proof the nonexistence of invisible, pink elephants flying around your head if someone claims they exist. The person making such claims has to prove they exist. A person claiming god exists has to prove it. A person claiming a big turtle is carrying the universe has to proof the existence, not the other way around.

I could just as well claim that you're paid off by Trump to try to convince people on here that TikTok is bad. Then I demand you prove it. If you show me your recent financial transactions as proof and there's nothing on it, I claim he visited you and paid in cash... and we can go on and on about this. The only way this becomes true and a fact is if I can proof that you're paid off by Trump, not the other way around.

This is also true for TikTok, the proof has to be made that TikTok is collecting any data that is not in their TOS. In what world is "TikTok is ok" a scientific statement? What would the corresponding research question even look like? No scientist in the world would research if "TikTok is ok", whatever that even means.

However there are plenty of researchers around the globe trying to find evidence that TikTok is indeed collecting illegal data and sending it off to China. To date, there is no peer-reviewed publication of current TikTok that shows proof that what you claim is happening.

Sure, plenty on non-scientific articles out there claiming one thing or the other, such as this: https://www.businessinsider.com/tiktok-explainer-privacy-facebook-google-2020-7?r=DE&IR=T

Again, this is not scientific. However it links to a Twitter account of someone who also has a blog and keeps a very close eye on what TikTok is doing when it comes to data collection. Again, nothing illegal found there, only what TikTok is already explaining in their TOS. I'm pretty sure if anyone would find actual proof of something illegal happening, there would be a peer-reviewed publication right away. Until then, this is all paranoid nonsense without any proof to back it up. And again, one has to proof it's happening, not that it's not happening.

Trump, trump, trump and trump.
All you wrote here.
As a researcher discussing digital security you sure as hell bring a lot of scientific info to the table rofl.

Also your point of view what is legal and illegal is clearly based on dry interpretation of laws that allow for data harvesting to happen. Not even gonna mention political bias.
This is developers exploiting access to data that the phone stores for specific tasks and collecting it even though it has absolutely zero to do with the app you are using. As a developer myself i find this heavily disturbing and immoral. it's a form of theft.
It's like getting invited to somebodies house and then just going from room to room when the owner is occupied with something else and searching what to grab since the doors are open and shelves weren't locked with a key.

 

[GuruZac]

The DNC didn't put an old white man in office. Voters did.

No, the DNC was and is behind who they want the people to vote for. They sacrificed Bernie Sanders in 2016 and again in 2020. Tulsa Gabbard was basically disowned by the DNC because she wasn’t afraid to call out the corruption of the Clintons. The current DNC and RNC are full of trash people and candidates.

 

[bigandtasty]

Fact Check: You started the off topic banter.

Thought you dim “choose truth over facts”, just sayin….

 

[true god]

Not a fan of actual facts are you?

Not a fan of alternative facts.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

While debatable, at this point all the data points at this conclusion.
Like I said and you're bouncing the question back without answer. Show me the research that I am wrong and I'll retract this statement.

What data? Where? You've provided none. And again, please learn how science works. This is not how it works. I'm not bouncing any question, you have a false understanding of science.
But we won't get anywhere with it. You're one of the guys who turns things around and around to your liking similar to the Trump voters claiming fraud.

Again, I could now claim you're a 10 year old sitting in your moms basement trolling and demand you proof it wrong and I could spin it around and around so you'll never be able to proof it.

If posting a link about a known fact ruins my internet credibility while completely exposing your ignorance then I'm ok with it.

Again, please learn how science works. Kids should actually learn in school that Wikipedia is not a credible source. I could explain now why that's the case, but I'm somewhat tired of it. Maybe I'll explain it to my neighbors cat tomorrow.

I gave you plenty examples showing that TikTok among ther apps is very invasive when it comes to data collection very often one that is not part of the app or apps focus.

No you didn't except for ranting and random articles by journalists, none of which is proof.

If you copied your bitcoin key to move it to a different location and that key was copied from clipboard and sent to some random business database and one day you find you have no bitcoin then what?

Then I'd either proof with hard facts that someone copied something from my system without authorization or I'd kick myself in the butt for posting it publicly on a forum if they didn't just copy it. Same for TikTok, if they do that, proof it. You don't have to proof that they're not doing it. You know, that darn science thing.

The "joke" about spying on people using government resources is even clearer representation of your leave TikTok alone crusade.

Everyone gets by now you don't understand how research works. Where do you think non-profit research is coming from? Magically appears? Hint, it's largely paid for by governments all around the world.

Hold on... YOU personally attend a institution that bans research and prohibits compensation workers based on their countries since they are labeled as authoritarian YET you dismiss ANY potential malicious intent from their affiliation with TikTok?

Oh now it's potential... wasn't it a fact? There's no proof that TikTok is collecting anything other than what they state in their TOS. If they do and there's actual proof, I'd be the first in line to complain about it. But since there's no proof, it's all conspiracy theories. Maybe I need one of those tinfoil hats and start to believe the earth is 6000 years old.

It's very simple in the end, TikTok is clearly stating what they collect. If you don't agree with it, don't use it. Isn't free choice a great thing? Problem solved. If you can prove they do something illegal, take them to court. And please don't come up with "but they're in china..." now. Homework needs to be done first in that case.

 

[kaycrystal626]

I went to law school in Delaware and Biden was one of the Senators from DE at the time. Our constitutional law professor was the chief justice of the DE supreme court (he died about 10 years ago). He was on the left side of the political spectrum, but he was fair and would present the analysis from Stone to Hughes to Vinson to Warren to Rehnquist to Marshall to Brennan and he did it evenly and fairly. He was not an overt partisan. Biden came in an guest lectured for a 2 hour class.

Biden was entertaining, personable, and funny. I'd have had a beer with him if I was a drinker, and he was certainly willing to just talk to the class both during and after class. Personally he seemed like a nice guy. I will say that I am no longer sure which of his tales were true after reading his "misstatements" and plagiarized speeches etc, but all were entertaining. However, he was no genius. He misstated the law in a large number of cases. The professor spent about half the next class correcting the mistakes. His memory of the cases was faulty in many cases. Solely from a legal perspective, he was definitely not very sharp. At the time he was the chairman of the Senate judiciary committee. And this was nearly 30 years ago.

I certainly don't believe him to be unique from any side in senators being not too sharp, but nevertheless, good politicians and able to get elected.

Nice fictional story bro!

 

[pacalis]

Well, science should depend on hard facts and proof only.

The dominant philosophy of science by Karl Popper argues that is premised on falsifiability, not proof.

So snopes finds you statement mostly false. ; )

I don't think it's complicated at all. People claim that TikTok is collecting more data than what they state in their TOS.

Well, there should be no disadvantage for anyone for that matter. As I said, ban one, ban them all - if they do the same. So if TikTok would share data with the US government, then why not have Facebook share data with China? This can be applied to any company or government in the world.

The issue is not the TOS. It's the potential Chinese backdoor and national security that has been raised as the concern. The Trump policy, as I understand was to split it into two entities with different policies with respect to Chinese access.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

As a developer myself i find this heavily disturbing and immoral.

Good god, I sure hope nothing of what you worked on actually made it to the market, as not only do you not understand science, you don't even understand technology you say you're working with. Could explain why, but would be wasted. Only this, you're ranting agains a single product, yet it's the same for everyone. Which brings me back to, ban one, ban them all. Everything said there is to say, all good.

 

[Grohowiak]

Oh now it's potential... wasn't it a fact? There's no proof that TikTok is collecting anything other than what they state in their TOS. If they do and there's actual proof, I'd be the first in line to complain about it. But since there's no proof, it's all conspiracy theories. Maybe I need one of those tinfoil hats and start to believe the earth is 6000 years old.

It's very simple in the end, TikTok is clearly stating what they collect. If you don't agree with it, don't use it. Isn't free choice a great thing? Problem solved. If you can prove they do something illegal, take them to court. And please don't come up with "but they're in china..." now. Homework needs to be done first in that case.

The whole post, trump, people like you, kids, learn how science works while talking trump... please.

They said it themselves that they will remove the feature that reads the clipboard. So yeah. They did and acknowledged it without going into details for bloody obvious reason lmao.
Whatever else is in there nobody knows yet but this right here proves everything I said while you keep trying to find creative ways how to insult me.

TikTok says it will stop accessing clipboard content on iOS devices

The company says it’s submitted an update to the App Store

www.theverge.com

 

[Grohowiak]

Good god, I sure hope nothing of what you worked on actually made it to the market, as not only do you not understand science, you don't even understand technology you say you're working with. Could explain why, but would be wasted. Only this, you're ranting agains a single product, yet it's the same for everyone. Which brings me back to, ban one, ban them all. Everything said there is to say, all good. Attach files

From my previous response:
I think I was pretty clear that all practices like this should be banned. It's common sense. Doesn't matter where they come from.

FYI - This statement = any developer spying on people should be banned.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

The dominant philosophy of science by Karl Popper argues that is premised on falsifiability, not proof.

Ah, gotta love those philosophers who think they know anything about science. Feynman had a few shots fired at those.

The issue is not the TOS. It's the potential Chinese backdoor and national security that has been raised as the concern.

Nothing against potential concerns, all good. The problem is again, lack of proof. Plenty of potential concern about government agencies illegally spying on people, including China, Russia and the US. That's why everyone has to keep and eye on it and once proof is found act based on that evidence. Reminds me a little about the Cold War and boy am I glad no-one pushed a button based on a hunch.

 

[GrumpyCoder]

They did and acknowledged it without going into details for bloody obvious reason lmao.

Oh boy... must be really hard to understand for you. Mark some text, press command-c. Oops... go somewhere else, press command-v. Does that suddenly show up in China? Nope. Case closed.

 

[Grohowiak]

Oh boy... must be really hard to understand for you. Mark some text, press command-c. Oops... go somewhere else, press command-v. Does that suddenly show up in China? Nope. Case closed.

COPY -> PASTE and 99% people think they are are done while at the same time for how ever long that clipboard data persists apps like TikTok copy the information (well used to to be fair at least according to their statements) Automatically. No any other input necessary.

AND THEN

What Are Computer Servers? | How Do Servers Work?

How servers work is not as complicated as you think. Learn what computer servers are and how they handle tasks like machine learning.

www.chartercollege.edu

Now with that in mind even if data is on US based servers the developers still work from China (and other countries for that matter) while having unrestricted access to the information that was collected by their app.

It's automatic by the way.
And what's even more cool is that with few lines of code you can sort the information based on keywords, length, location and etc. and now you have dedicated databases containing sorted information which make it much easier to go through even further using separate algorithms or straight up manually. Python is pretty awesome for that.

 

[farewelwilliams]

“I keep forgetting I’m President”

- Joe Biden 6/9/21

“I keep forgetting I’m no longer President”
- Donald Trump 6/9/21

 

[GrumpyCoder]

Now with that in mind even if data is on local us servers the developers still work from China (and other countries for that matter) while having unrestricted access.

Cool. Do you have an article that explains to what servers exactly this locally accessed clipboard data is actually transferred to? And while you're at it, maybe one that also explains how often these servers that store that data were accessed by Chinese developers? I'd like to read more about these specifics.

All this talk, I think I'm feeling paranoid about my data now. You know, even a IT guy can access all my health records and financial data. Heck, back when I worked in the industry I worked at a client (a hospital) and a guy from GE in Milwaukee dialed in to check some logs, he could have accessed all patient data. When he couldn't get things done, he had another software engineer from Japan (they provided some frameworks for GE) dial in. The guy in Japan also had full access to patient data. You might be onto something here. Back then I was told they have contracts and act according to law. So I guess there's hope and if they would have pulled confidential patient data, someone would have proof for it. But maybe people haven't figured it out yet, because technology is brand new... oh wait.

 

[Sanlitun]

The guys at the TikTok head office wish to congratulate comrade Biden!