Problem installing Lubuntu 16.04 LTS on eMac G4 1.42GHz model.

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by LinuxUser, Sep 29, 2017.

  1. LinuxUser, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017

    LinuxUser macrumors newbie

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    Sep 29, 2017
    #1
    I'm having a bad time attempting to install Lubuntu 16.04 on my eMac, last model ever made. I believe it has a Radeon 9600 64MB GPU, that might be causing issues(not sure).

    I make it to the yaboot screen, I believe it's called, where it asks you to type something into boot it. I tried live, live-powerpc, et cetera or something along those lines. Tried every option that was available, but I keep getting a black screen, after a white screen saying that it's gonna boot into Linux.

    I have no idea what to do, I've waited 10+ minutes on each black screen, but no luck. I believe I'm missing something, or that Linux is attempting to use the GPU to boot into Linux, but it doesn't have the driver. This is what I assume, and I have no idea what I could do to fix this.

    Also, yes I did download the PowerPC version of Linux, and I am able to install "MorphOS", but do not want to use that OS. Can anyone please save me? Much appreciated.

    Edit: This is the model I have: https://everymac.com/systems/apple/emac/specs/emac_1.42.html
     
  2. AphoticD macrumors 68000

    AphoticD

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    #2
    Getting the live DVD to boot properly seems to be the number one hurdle of Ubuntu/Lubuntu for PPC.

    Read the Ubuntu PowerPC FAQ, note the section regarding Radeon GPUs.
    This boot command works for me on my PowerBook G4 15" (Radeon 9700 64MB) and 17" (Radeon 9700 128MB)
    Code:
    live radeon.modeset=1 video=radeonfb:off video=offb:off radeon.agpmode=-1
    
    Once you've got it installed, reboot. Use this boot command on first startup:
    Code:
    Linux radeon.modeset=1 video=radeonfb:off video=offb:off radeon.agpmode=-1
    
    Then run Software Update and let it install the latest kernel version. You can then reboot again and use just:
    Code:
    Linux radeon.agpmode=-1
    
    If you'd like to make this boot argument persist, edit your /etc/yaboot.conf and edit the "append" line, e.g.
    Code:
    append="quiet splash radeon.agpmode=-1"
    
    You can then install the edited boot config with ybin (man ybin).
     
  3. LinuxUser thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Sep 29, 2017
    #3
    Thank you for the link, I've seen it before, but did not know how to proceed. I just typed in the first command you had in the CODE line, but still have the same issue unfortunately. I apologize if it seems like I'm a noob, as I'm not familiar with installing on PPC yet. Also, with the boot argument persist, do I have to edit the .ISO file and reburn the disc? Sorry once again if that's a noob question. Much appreciated of the help and reply.
     
  4. AphoticD macrumors 68000

    AphoticD

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    #4
    You don't want to modify the iso. Those commands were the secret to booting my PowerBooks.

    Just to cross off the possibility of a dud DVD, can you try burning another? If the eMac's DVD drive is failing, you may need to create a bootable USB stick and then command Open Firmware to boot from USB. This is a bit of a process, so be prepared to commit to banging your head on the desk until it all works.

    Take notes as you go and once you get the magic combo, write it down!
     
  5. LinuxUser, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017

    LinuxUser thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #5
    I forgot to mention one thing, since you did mention the DVD drive could be failing. I hear a clunking sound when I type in the "live" commands, but after awhile during the blackscreen, it will stop, which I assume it stops trying to load Linux. But I'm assuming if it can boot from DVD, the DVD drive should be working fine? Also installed MorphOS fine, so I can't see why the drive would be going bad?

    I hope it is fine though, as if Linux doesn't work out, I have to obtain some dual layer DVD's and burn Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard on it. By the way, possible to link OSX 10.5 download link? Also, I noticed some places say "10.5" Leopard, but not "10.5.8", which is the latest version of Leopard. Hypothetically, let's say it's "10.5.0" for example, could I go to the Apple website and download the updates to make it "10.5.8" without installing anything else to a DVD? Just a small concern. And once again, appreciate the reply.

    Edit: I just found out eMac PowerPC's aren't able to boot from USB, unfortunately. And Firewire in this day and age is long gone, I believe.
     
  6. Dronecatcher macrumors 68030

    Dronecatcher

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    #6
    @AphoticD can you tell me why PPC Linux installers are such a pain when X86 variety are so easy? Is there a techical barrier to hardware sensing on PPC or are the authors masochists who demand that the PPC user must learn the command line before they're allowed in?
    --- Post Merged, Sep 29, 2017 ---
    You can find it at macintoshgarden.org - we're not allowed to direct link here. It's also possible to edit the iso to fit on a single layer DVD.
     
  7. LinuxUser, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017

    LinuxUser thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #7
    I've checked that site earlier, but the problem is, there's a lot of apps and games of other stuff, and couldn't find it unfortunately. How would I go about doing that on a single layer DVD?
     
  8. Dronecatcher macrumors 68030

    Dronecatcher

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    #8
    If you Google for it there are a few guides out there, same for booting from USB.
     
  9. LinuxUser thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Sep 29, 2017
    #9
    Not sure if you seen my post, but I read somewhere that you can't boot from USB on the eMac. As for the single layer method, do I have to have Mac OSX to do this? Because the Mac OSX 10.4 Tiger got wiped when I installed MorphOS.
     
  10. AphoticD, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017

    AphoticD macrumors 68000

    AphoticD

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    #10
    From my experience, Linux/PPC has ALWAYS been like this. Even the best releases like Yellow Dog had their Mac-related quirks and this was during the time that the hardware was ultra-modern and "better" than the competition.

    When I tackled Linux/PPC again late last year, I was surprised that the best, most modern distro, Ubuntu Mate 16.04 couldn't get it right off the bat. I mean, nothing had changed in the PowerPC Mac world for 11 years. How much time did they need to tweak and tune the installer in order to make it "simply work"? If the regular users need to keep a handful of magic key commands just to make it boot, wouldn't the talented folks who put it all together have the skill to put those machine specific codes into the distro release?

    I think Linux developers just enjoy breaking things and providing "challenges" to regular users. Maybe it's a superiority thing?
    --- Post Merged, Sep 29, 2017 ---
    Don't believe everything you read. It will boot, but it's just not as easy as plugging it in and holding down the option key like you can with an Intel Mac.

    Use this page I linked to earlier as a guide:
    https://apple.stackexchange.com/que...my-1-5-ghz-powerbook-g4-boot-from-a-usb-stick

    In regards to Leopard. Once you install 10.5.0, run Software Update from the Apple menu to download and install 10.5.8. Apple are still delivering Leopard and Tiger updates through this service.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 29, 2017 ---
    In quick follow-up, the magic Open Firmware command to locate your device hardware paths is dev / ls also, devalias is useful for finding device alias names, such as "usb1". Once you get your device path located, patch it together into a boot command like:
    Code:
    boot usb1/disk@1:,\\yaboot
    
    You could also explicitly specify the partition number such as:
    Code:
    boot usb1/disk@1:3,\\yaboot
    
    This is helpful to know in a multi-boot environment. I typically create little shell scripts for rebooting between OSes such as:

    rebootmate.sh (run from Mac OS X terminal)
    Code:
    nvram boot-device="first-boot/@0:2,\\\\:tbxi" && reboot
    rebootleopard.sh (run from Linux terminal)
    Code:
    nvram --update-config boot-device="first-boot/@0:3,\\\\:tbxi" && reboot
    reboottiger.sh (to run from Linux terminal)
    Code:
    nvram --update-config boot-device="first-boot/@0:6,\\\\:tbxi" && reboot
    (Note that these are specific to partitions on the HDD in Slot A on my G5 tower - you can easily get your partition numbers in Mac OS X with diskutil list).

    Save the scripts, mark as executable (chmod a+x reboot*.sh), then mv them to their respective /usr/local/bin directories on each OS.
     
  11. LinuxUser thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Sep 29, 2017
    #11
    Thanks for the information and everything, I'm currently on Windows 7, and have another PC running Linux Mint at the moment. Do you think it's possible to create a bootable USB via Linux? Or does it have to be Mac OSX only?

    Also, I noticed the Leopard files are ".dmg.zip", do I burn it as ".zip" on the end? I haven't completed the download yet, but maybe I have to extract the file, which is a ".dmg" at the end? Then I burn the ".dmg" file? Sorry if this sounds noob, first time Mac user.
     
  12. Dronecatcher macrumors 68030

    Dronecatcher

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    #12
    I've never done any of this stuff on anything but a Mac so can't say for sure but I'd imagine doing it on Linux might be more sympathetic.
    Yes, you extract the file to dmg, which is burnt as an image to disk - not simply copied over.
     
  13. LinuxUser thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Sep 29, 2017
    #13
    Ok, I'll burn the .dmg file in the future after this download, as I have a slow connection. Planning to burn it on Linux, as my eMac is out of order.

    Also, about TenFourFox, which version do I download it for on my eMac? I can't check terminal on it at the moment for the model.

    Edit.^
     
  14. Dronecatcher macrumors 68030

    Dronecatcher

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    #14
    Your eMac needs the 7450 version.
    Warning - you will need to do a bit of research and digging before your eMac is performing at it's best, the world has moved on considerably since PowerPC was abandoned by Apple.
    The good news is you've come to the right place - all the info you'll need is contained in this forum and your 1.42Ghz eMac is agreat machine, I used to have one and it worked well with Leopard.
     
  15. LinuxUser, Sep 29, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017

    LinuxUser thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Sep 29, 2017
    #15
    Thank you for the reply, I picked it up for $20 off a guy trying to sell it for $50, but since he needed the money, and I wanted it really bad(carried it on public transit), he gave it to me for that price. Once I realized this machine was the 1.42GHz model, I jumped on the ball, and left behind some guy selling the 1.25GHz model.

    Edit: Do you think I'll have trouble running flash on TenFourFox? I looked up some posts from the past, but they seem quite old, and I'm scared it might be outdated and that I would have trouble browsing certain websites.
     
  16. AphoticD macrumors 68000

    AphoticD

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    #16
    Use Linux to copy the iso to the USB thumb drive. I'm not sure what is in Mint, but Ubuntu has a Disks accessory, which I've always used to restore the PPC Linux ISO files to USB for booting on a Mac.
    Screen Shot 2017-09-29 at 9.03.03 PM.jpg
    --- Post Merged, Sep 29, 2017 ---
    That is a great deal! You did well. The eMac, albeit a lead weight to carry (on public transport), is a perfect All in One Mac and the 1.42 was top of the line!

    Flash for PowerPC ended at version 10.(something) I believe, so it is going to be limited. Fortunately, there are many solutions for watching youtube videos. @Dronecatcher is the man for this. :apple: :apple: :apple:
     
  17. LinuxUser thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #17
    Thank you soo much for the information about Linux, much appreciated. And thank you for the compliment, I checked out all the eMac models ever made on "EveryMac" I believe, and realized that this was the top of the line, hence why I jumped on the ball. I ordered some ram from China, PC3200 2x1GB to max out the machine at 2GB's. It's at a disappointing 512MB's of ram at the moment, and that just won't cut it.

    Do you have any solutions for watching YouTube videos and other flash player contents on this ancient hardware? I know you mentioned @Dronecaster, but do you yourself have your own method of doing so?
     
  18. CooperBox macrumors 65816

    CooperBox

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    #18
    THIS is the Dronecatcher link to implement the YouTube Player. I've tried it on a G4 and it works a treat. Plus if a fool like myself can follow it and get it working well, anyone can!
     
  19. LinuxUser thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #19
    Much appreciated of the reply, thanks.
     
  20. Dronecatcher macrumors 68030

    Dronecatcher

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    #20
    Seeing as you're installing Leopard, @Lastic is the man :)

    Follow his guide: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ew-mactubes-mobile-youtube-installer.2030035/

    Smtube is a trouble free, one click way to play Youtube - my method is more of a hack but works for Tiger too.

    Regarding Flash, you can use a hack to 'pretend' you're using a newer version but natively TFF doesn't allow Flash. For Flash you can use Safari, Leopard Webkit and Roccat.

    I'll update with a link to the Flash hack shortly.

    EDIT: Flash hack:

    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/flash-v21-0-0-216.1967041/
     
  21. z970mp macrumors 65816

    z970mp

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    #21
    Just so you know, the final version of Flash for PowerPC is 10.1.102.64. Personally, Leopard Webkit is recommended for YouTube. An alternative would be the Quicktime Enabler on TenFourFox.

    But you can go with Drone's method if you'd like.
     
  22. Lastic macrumors 6502a

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    #22
    My 2 cents on Youtube , you can use like stated before Leopard Webkit or Roccat , any Safari-browser linked against Webkit but 360p is going to be the limit probably.

    You can use my SMtube method on Leopard or you can use @Dronecatcher 's method already both linked already in the previous posts.
     
  23. d-oost macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    No, the authors aren't weirdos who do such things. The authors are a small group of people doing the same amount of work of getting Linux on the PowerPC architecture, that a huge group of people are doing for x86. Obviously the PowerPC authors get overworked trying to maintain compatibility with PowerPC systems, and especially Apple's closed variants on that, while PowerPC use has dwindled to nearly non-existant on the desktop and laptop market today, to the point where the (32-bit) PowerPC ports of both Ubuntu and Debian have died. You're making it seem as if PowerPC support was tampered with to make it painful, when it is rather clear it's simply a dead end that takes a lot of work to get to properly work, which is simply too much for the few devs that were left working on the ports until they were completely dropped.

    But I honestly think that if you're going to run Linux on PowerPC these days, you shouldn't do it to get a better desktop experience than you'd get on Leopard. You're really not going to get that. PowerPC Linux, due to the aforementioned issues it has faced and still does for those flavours that still support it, which again at this point is very close to zero, is really meant for people that know how to work Linux, and have special uses for it. For example, I use MATE on my Quad for experimental uses, like running QEMU. That's a program that allows you to run emulated computers on your machine, but with the additional KVM program, also allows you to virtualize PowerPC machines inside of the PowerPC machine you're working on. Virtualization ofcourse is way better than emulation, and it allows for cool experiments like running virtualized versions of OS X that normally wouldn't run on a G5 Quad, and running them simultaneously. That's simply not nearly as feasible on Leopard as it is on Linux. And even with all that said, completely breaking PowerPC Linux by doing something wrong is way easier than doing that on PowerPC OS X. You mess something up, and you have potentially borked your Linux OS completely. Trust me when I say that I am at least capable at Linux, and have still managed to have this happen to me once.

    As for going on-topic, for the things you'd like to do, OP, you really don't need to give yourself headaches trying to figure out Linux. With the tweaks, utilities, and programs documented on this forum, OS X Leopard should serve you just fine on that eMac. We still have this little group here getting the most out of the OS, and since it was build by Apple's massive group of devs and backed with huge amounts of cash, it's just more bombproof than PowerPC Linux and the tiny dev group it had until its demise, along with pretty much no financial backing.
     
  24. Dronecatcher macrumors 68030

    Dronecatcher

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    #24
    Which confirms the point I made. Everyone who has installed Linux successfully on PPC know the extra steps that are required to get it running properly, which would have taken the author perhaps an extra couple of hours to script into the distro and save the end user the hassle...and then made more supporters of Linux on PPC.
     
  25. AphoticD macrumors 68000

    AphoticD

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    #25
    I don’t think there was an intention to offend anyone. Of course we all know that PowerPC Linux contributors are few and far between and any support is better than none.

    Fortunately, PowerPC as a platform is not limited to only 12+ year old Macs, so I can imagine support for Linux/PPC will continue on in some form or another. Regardless of Debian’s official PPC finish line and the ripple down effect for Ubuntu/Lubuntu, Linux/PPC aficionados will continue to build and hack away at the OS.

    Fedora Server 26 is a modern (July 2017) PPC64 release for G5, POWER8, POWER9, etc. I haven’t tried yet, but it should be possible to add the workstation packages for a complete desktop environment, I just don’t expect to find much in terms of Mac-specific technical support when things don’t work.

    With Linux, it comes down to the user’s nous and commitment to make it work in some form or another. If the end user wants an easy “It just works” solution then Linux (especially for PPC) is not the best choice.

    It’s really not that it has been intentionally designed to be difficult, it’s more that the designers are often limited in scope to working with only technically minded users and not often considerate of anyone with less experience.

    This is why Windows and Mac are always going to be more popular. They are massively funded to be designed for ease of use. In most cases, the end user can click their way through a task such as installing software or setting up hardware without any understanding of what’s going on at a lower level.

    Often, the simplest “easy to use” software designs are the most thoroughly thought through, extensively focus group tested and massively $$$ expensive processes. It’s this expense that indie / open-source programmers can’t afford.

    This could explain the typical entry level requirement for Linux.
     

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