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Profile of Foxconn's Founder Addresses Relationship With Apple

hugodrax said:
Jobs that could have been in the USA.
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You sure about that?

Factor in North-American lifestyle wages, the ridiculous power of unions, and the demand for benefits of all kinds - dental, sick leave, personal days, daycare, you name it!

Put yourself in a business owner's shoes, and shipping work to China looks a helluva lot sweeter.

What parent is going to tell their child in North America: "sweet-heart, our dream for you is to see you become a factory worker and machine operator."

When everyone wants to become a doctor or lawyer or IT manager, who's left to do the assembly? Oh wait, what am I saying, auto-workers (for example) in North America are paid exorbitant wages to begin with. Garbage collectors who work for the city around Toronto make what, at least $20 an hour.

But hey, we all want our 50-inch HD TVs, right?

Get used to it: the design and planning is done in North America, and the manufacture is done overseas. So we can have our modern goodies in record time. Now back to browsing for an iPad . . .
 
*LTD* said:
You sure about that?

Factor in North-American lifestyle wages, the ridiculous power of unions, and the demand for benefits of all kinds - dental, sick leave, personal days, daycare, you name it!

Put yourself in a business owner's shoes, and shipping work to China looks a helluva lot sweeter.

What parent is going to tell their child in North America: "sweet-heart, our dream for you is to see you become a factory worker and machine operator."

When everyone wants to become a doctor or lawyer or IT manager, who's left to do the assembly? Oh wait, what am I saying, auto-workers (for example) in North America are paid exorbitant wages to begin with. Garbage collectors who work for the city around Toronto make what, at least $20 an hour.

But hey, we all want our 50-inch HD TVs, right?

Get used to it: the design and planning is done in North America, and the manufacture is done overseas. So we can have our modern goodies in record time. Now back to browsing for an iPad . . .
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Gasp! $20 an hour. Oh, the horror! And dental care, sick leave... where does it end?!

It is obviously much better to have a few captains of industry here, sending the manufacturing out, and having millions on unemployment costing society billions of dollars which is paid for by those garbage collectors.

Clearly, this is a modern model which is working really well.
 
I found this article fascinating and well-balanced considering it did talk quite openly about Foxconn's problems with its labor force.

But what's REALLY scary is that Foxconn makes a huge fraction of the consumer electronics products sold out there. Besides many Apple products, I believe Foxconn manufactures Linksys wireless routers and the three major home gaming consoles (Microsoft Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii and Sony PlayStation 3), among many other things.
 
I'm surprised that nobody said that this: "Assembled in China" on the backs of our iDevices should read: "Manufactured in China".

Let's face it. We got a Chinese product with a slick Apple design and its great iOS. Nothing more. Nothing less.

More interestingly: Steve Jobs said that 230.000 iOS devices are activated per day, and with Foxconn pushing out 137.000 units a day – demand still outperforms production, or people wouldn't have to wait anymore – that leaves only 93.000 iOS units for all other iOS devices. The problem with this number is that when Apple sells iPad's in a say 2 to 3 ratio [2 iPad's / 3 iPhone's] then it doesn't have anything left to activate for the iPod Touch and Apple TV. So something is obviously wrong here. Does this mean that it is closer to a 1 to 4 ratio [1 iPad for 4 iPhones] because only that leaves room for the rest. Interesting isn't it?
 
Master Chief said:
I'm surprised that nobody said that this: "Assembled in China" on the backs of our iDevices should read: "Manufactured in China".

Let's face it. We got a Chinese product with a slick Apple design and its great iOS. Nothing more. Nothing less.
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Still designed in Cali. That makes a big difference.
 
hugodrax said:
Jobs that could have been in the USA. So much for technology ushering in a new phase of employment for Americans.
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And I bet not a single one of those Foxconn employees are union. If you look at the history of American manufacturing, it has gone from, innovation, to mass low-wage production with unions moving in to "save" the workers and driving the labor cost up where they cannot be competitive in the global market. Mining, steel, cars, construction all of these industries have gone that way.

Silicon Valley execs have done everything but hire assassins to keep the unions out of high technology so no "International Brotherhood of Software Developers" would slow down growth of these companies.

Find an industry anywhere in the world that is not keeping up with the world market, just look for the local union fat cat collecting dues and getting back room deals that is holding capital investments and new management practices back.
 
hugodrax said:
Not everyone goes to college or take a trade, those folks need jobs as well. And those factories have lots of jobs other than what you think, lots of support and auxiliary jobs (Q/A etc.. management)

BTW engineering and programming jobs and other white collar jobs have been outsourced as well.

Our industry go us through WWII sending our entire manufacturing capacity to a communist country in my opinion does not sound like a smart long term idea.

But then again most young folks are too busy txting and watching reality shows,following the lives of movie stars etc. to really care much about whats happening out there.
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People need to take a step back and ask themselves why jobs at any level get "outsourced". Companies by nature and as a responsibility to their shareholders are out to make profit. When it is cost prohibitive (for whatever reason) to manufacture a product in a country, they move that work somewhere less costly. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Now, why is it cost prohibitive? Most people only look to the fact that the population of these countries is willing to accept lower wages for the work, which while true, only accounts for some of the story. Have you ever thought about how stifling the government can be to true free trade? All I ever hear about is that the U.S. should tax big business - this is born of the mindset that "big business" is inherently evil. It is our own government that is pushing jobs out of the country, and we as a population are allowing it when we vote in politicians that continue to tax the crap out of companies to fund entitlement programs. Have you ever looked at your employers contributions to Social Security, Medicare, etc.? It is staggering and is enough to drive any type of job somewhere else. Of course, this is also only a small part of the equation with others like currency exchange rates, but it is something that we as a population have more control over. The problem is, it is not as evident as it should be. I just hear whining that companies "outsource" jobs, but nobody ever stops to think why. They just assume that the executives have evil intentions. Really?

Oh, and look around - I remember when I was in college (10 years ago), the libraries were always packed with what looked like foreigners. It just seems like they have the drive and determination that our grandparents had back in the day. Now, everyone thinks being an American is simply enough and that everything should just be handed to them. NOTHING is guaranteed!!
 
hugodrax said:
I am glad I am not part of this Millennial generation where you graduate 100K in the hole to earn 20-30K a year at some McJob.
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Honestly, IMO most college graduates for the past fifty years should have never been in college in the first place. Being $100K in debt and not able to find a job with a degree no one wants is sweet justice for being so naive.

The current college enrollment trend comes from all these worthless degrees made up in the 1960's so youth could avoid the draft during the Vietnam War. I site the infamous "Basket Weaving Major" as an example. Worst, any ethnic "studies" degree that is just racial divide and conquer rhetoric that goes back to the Roman Empire are other examples.

Academics soon saw themselves as a profit centers making up any degree they can to charge tuition. Into the 1970's many middle class families that rarely sent their children to college now started to send their kids to college where they just "came home after four years" doing jobs that had no relation to their education at all. Worst some kids chose their major without any real world research to see if it was desired in the work force at all.

I'm looking forward to a lot of these colleges getting their federal funding killed so these diploma mills are shut down and college degrees become something more than overpriced rhetoric indoctrinations.
 
CFreymarc said:
Honestly, IMO most college graduates for the past fifty years should have never been in college in the first place. Being $100K in debt and not able to find a job with a degree no one wants is sweet justice for being so naive.

The current college enrollment trend comes from all these worthless degrees made up in the 1960's so youth could avoid the draft during the Vietnam War. I site the infamous "Basket Weaving Major" as an example. Worst, any ethnic "studies" degree that is just racial divide and conquer rhetoric that goes back to the Roman Empire are other examples.

Academics soon saw themselves as a profit centers making up any degree they can to charge tuition. Into the 1970's many middle class families that rarely sent their children to college now started to send their kids to college where they just "came home after four years" doing jobs that had no relation to their education at all. Worst some kids chose their major without any real world research to see if it was desired in the work force at all.

I'm looking forward to a lot of these colleges getting their federal funding killed so these diploma mills are shut down and college degrees become something more than overpriced rhetoric indoctrinations.
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These arguments act as if people don't choose those degrees out of their own free will. Does anyone ever take any personal responsibility anymore, or is it always "the institution" that made me do it? Even in my argument above, I note that our government has a lot to do with pushing jobs away, but I take responsibility as a voter to try and change that. Everyone expects everything to be easy. America should always be great just because it is America. I'm an American, therefore I'm entitled. C'mon people get a grip on your own life and the world around you!!
 
CFreymarc said:
Honestly, IMO most college graduates for the past fifty years should have never been in college in the first place. Being $100K in debt and not able to find a job with a degree no one wants is sweet justice for being so naive.

The current college enrollment trend comes from all these worthless degrees made up in the 1960's so youth could avoid the draft during the Vietnam War. I site the infamous "Basket Weaving Major" as an example. Worst, any ethnic "studies" degree that is just racial divide and conquer rhetoric that goes back to the Roman Empire are other examples.

Academics soon saw themselves as a profit centers making up any degree they can to charge tuition. Into the 1970's many middle class families that rarely sent their children to college now started to send their kids to college where they just "came home after four years" doing jobs that had no relation to their education at all. Worst some kids chose their major without any real world research to see if it was desired in the work force at all.

I'm looking forward to a lot of these colleges getting their federal funding killed so these diploma mills are shut down and college degrees become something more than overpriced rhetoric indoctrinations.
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College should not be simply career oriented. Its a chance to get out from under the parents wings and grow a little; discover yourself.

Sadly the focus has shifted towards career development and mindless drinking binges which I'm sure less enlightened would lump in with my statement of "discovering yourself".

Fraternities have also defeated the purpose really. Instead of moving out of the house and learning how to manage your own life, too many choose to enter into one of these clubs with sets of rules telling you how to behave and conform while being hazed for a semester. The fraternity ends up taking the place of the parents in a twisted sort of way.
 
Below is just the basic "Company exploitation of the working class" rant...if you know the story theres nothing new here.


I cant believe people dont realize what this really means. Everyones so caught up in their conditioned response and robotic motivations that they think this is "Impressive" or "interesting". In fact, its just another company that abuses their power. Has a greed mentality, and much like American companies and governments, distributes the wealth/profit disproportionately.

Just look at the Banking industry and how the upper executives get bonuses thats the whole yearly salary of whole departments. It happens in every industry. Its about the working class not knowing their true worth and companies exploiting them and causing bigger problems then they ever imagined. Think of the long term effects of this. Its a crash of an economy, whats going to happen when the markets of these industries are too poor to buy the goods due to this disproportionate distribution of company profits. Our government even does this.

Having a compound for the workers, are you kidding me? Focxonn is a disgrace. I was watching an entertainment show the other night. As a topic of discussion the host asked his guest "do you think theres anything wrong with someone paying $1800 on a dinner for two"? The fact that this was even being debated was disheartening. The guests couldnt even come to a conclusion. Of course its wrong. Its obvious that the person who could afford a meal like that is the beneficiary of other employees deserved income. Yet CEOs and other upper tear professionals reap all the rewards and keep the working classes income for themselves. This happens here in America, it most likely happens to "YOU".

Foxconn bettering the conditions for their workers is BS. Its just a pacifier and smoke screen. I cant believe Apple deals with companies like this. Though Apple probably isnt exempt from the business mentality mentioned above.

Apple could build their products in America but they dont. And if readers cant see the big picture and how this affects society then things will continue down this spiral. And dont think you can debate this fact, its well known amongst politicians, business men and economists. But companies with wide toothed greedy grins still laugh all the way to the bank while the working class gets reamed. All because as a collective, we're either too numb, dumb, or just plain gave up. Or maybe we put too much faith in corporations to help cure the suffering they ultimately invoke on the working class to begin with. Buying the products to make this not so subtle corrupt reality less painful which most cant afford unless its purchased with credit...consumer debt. Keeping you further under the lock and key of your employer.

Just remember one thing. No company, not even Apple is your friend. I love the work Apple does and the attention towards the "Experience" of using their products. I love quality. But they are no different than any other company. And this happens in smaller companies too. I see it all the time, theres always a very small group that offers less value yet keeps a huge portion of profits while the workers that actually sustain the company with their labor are given scraps. This will cripple any society...its only a matter of time.
 
Using cheap labor in China so that the final product can be shipped half way around the world to the US is a luxury that comes with cheap energy.

As soon as oil prices start to seriously increase it will be cheaper to manufacture in or near the US again.

All the definitive conclusions people have reached about production being dead in the US are thinking short term when we're eventually going to face a longer term energy crisis.
 
ten-oak-druid said:
College should not be simply career oriented. Its a chance to get out from under the parents wings and grow a little; discover yourself.

Sadly the focus has shifted towards career development and mindless drinking binges which I'm sure less enlightened would lump in with my statement of "discovering yourself".
Click to expand...

You can do that without forking over tuition that may have no return on investment. I have know many who said FU to mom and dad, hit the road, got a job be it civilian or military and saw the country and even the world. Eventually, one completes a Hero Arc (look it up,) they become their own with developed skills that actually paid well and did it without incurring massive debt. IMO avoiding steep tuition and mortgage debts are the key to freedom in this modern world.

ten-oak-druid said:
Fraternities have also defeated the purpose really. Instead of moving out of the house and learning how to manage your own life, too many choose to enter into one of these clubs with sets of rules telling you how to behave and conform while being hazed for a semester. The fraternity ends up taking the place of the parents in a twisted sort of way.
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You must have been an independent in college and bought into the socialist anti-fraternity propaganda. The most valuable times I spent in college were fraternity alumni visits telling us their success stories and how they made it. Two of them paid for the fraternity house in cash that I lived in for two years as an undergraduate.

I considered my formal academic classes secondary and lead by people who never had a real job in their life. My first move into my career came out of my fraternity's alumni old boys network. All those rings, cards and badges one wears and carries does pay off.

In fact, in a few years, I'll be going back to tell my house how I made it out here and what they should be looking for next. Last talk I gave was back in '95 telling them to get into mobile systems and how big it was going to be. A few took the advise and I work with them now. Others, well, they owe me a lot of drinks now.

And to kill the lies you are promoting, while petitioning for membership I was never abused physically nor mentally during my entire semester before I was initiated.

My final piece of advise is if you are in college and can't see a practical application to your education, quit now and get the hell out. Enough people do that and college administrators will wake up and realize that 80% of the degrees they are offering are of no use.
 
Xtremehkr said:
Using cheap labor in China so that the final product can be shipped half way around the world to the US is a luxury that comes with cheap energy.

As soon as oil prices start to seriously increase it will be cheaper to manufacture in or near the US again.

All the definitive conclusions people have reached about production being dead in the US are thinking short term when we're eventually going to face a longer term energy crisis.
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You are assuming linear and predictable progression of events. History has shown that small groups of dedicated individuals, no matter what their direction, are the ones that radically change the course of history while everyone else is just trying to make the next month of bills.

I for one predict a radical shift inside China some day that the current communist government has been holding back for decades. The Tienanmen Square protests of 1989 which lead to the government killing anyone in the square are alive and well.

If you spend any time in mainland China and know the locals, there is a massive civil cold war going on of cat and mouse. History has shown that suppression like this eventually explodes into a massive civil war.

With more and more money and productivity going inside China, don't expect everyone to don their Chairman Mao hats in the morning and go to work as expected. The Great Firewall of China will eventually come down in a huge disruption that a million secret police will not be able to handle.

That is the square I'm betting on for the next decade.
 
Mr. Serious said:
This guy is a slavedriver. Some of the workers at this factory have died working 34hrs straight. There are kids who are 11, 12 who work there 90-100hrs a week. The place is evil and Apple needs to change their ways as this story gets out. Read all about it here:

http://tba.portlandmercury.com/TBA/archives/2010/09/02/mike-daisey-the-mercury-interview
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I have to agree here. The look in his face in the photographs say more than anything else. I bet Apple is looking for another CM right now. When the right one(s) sign the bottom line, Foxconn will be dropped like a hot potato with Steve going to the press first before telling this guy his gravy train is over.
 
ten-oak-druid said:
College should not be simply career oriented. Its a chance to get out from under the parents wings and grow a little; discover yourself.
Click to expand...
That's just stupid. College is schooling for professional jobs, that is its purpose. (except, of course, for the athletes, but that's a rant for another day) I fail to see how you can claim enlightenment. Paying $100K+ to have somebody tickle your silly fancies is not why college exists. Get a grip, live in the real world. Or is this just a political argument for you?
siddavis said:
These arguments act as if people don't choose those degrees out of their own free will. Does anyone ever take any personal responsibility anymore, or is it always "the institution" that made me do it?
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Amen. Although I'm not sure that was actually what CFreymarc in particular said.

CFreymarc said:
You can do that without forking over tuition that may have no return on investment. I have know many who said FU to mom and dad, hit the road, got a job be it civilian or military and saw the country and even the world.
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You don't even have to leave your parents' house, and you certainly don't have to say FU. Just grow a pair and mature.....Mature, a word simply not used enough, anymore.

The most valuable times I spent in college were fraternity alumni visits telling us their success stories and how they made it. Two of them paid for the fraternity house in cash that I lived in for two years as an undergraduate.

I considered my formal academic classes secondary and lead by people who never had a real job in their life. My first move into my career came out of my fraternity's alumni old boys network. All those rings, cards and badges one wears and carries does pay off.
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Maybe you went to the wrong college, despite your other comments. My professors were often people active in their field, where the professor job was a 2nd job, mostly done because they liked teaching, liked helping others. Lawyers, business executives, accountants, etc. (my expensive pieces of paper say BS Accounting, BS Business Admin)

My jobs have come because of competence in my field...well, and the stupid pieces of paper.
 
4nNtt said:
The US manufacturing comments are interesting. I have always said that it doesn't make sense for us to compete with China because our workforce doesn't know component manufacturing. We build things like cars and windmills, we don't have people that are component experts. It makes sense for a Chinese or Taiwanese company to come here to start those initiatives though.
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Maybe you're trying to be funny there. Who do you think they learned how to make components/electronics from?
 
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