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Proposed Law Against Apple's 'Walled Garden' Software Approach Sparks Fears of iPhone Ban in Italy

Technically you can get anything installed on the iPhone if you know how, I think someone even booted up WinXP on the original iPhone in the past! So at the end of the day it really depends on how the letter of the law phrases the requirement, maybe Apple won't need to do anything extra and issue a statement along the line of "there has always been ways we just don't recommend it"..
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Brian Y said:
This is going to ban a lot more than just iPhones!

I can't run open-source games on my xbox, ps4 or Nintendo switch.

Tbh, I'm sure that if Apple said "sure we'll pull out of Italy" Italy would be mourning the tax losses before Apple misses the revenue.
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I might be really bad at geography, but I suppose if there is any ban in Italy, the Italians can simply take a 1-2hr commute (maybe train/ferry?) to any neighboring EU country to get one..
 
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H2SO4 said:
As an IT manager you’d have given out managed devices. Don't be so melodramatic.
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He is not an IT manager. As an IT manager, it's not your job to fix people's iPhones. Besides, in an enterprise environment, settings can be managed company-wide. E.g. the setting that allows people to install apps from different app stores.
 
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sinsin07 said:
If it comes to pass no one is saying you need to leave the walled garden.
If an alternate App Store for iOS does come to fruition, just don't use it.
Simple.
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I'm generally a proponent of "no one is forcing you, just don't use it" but in this case they would need to weaken defenses to allow untethered loading of third party apps. Despite my not personally using that feature it would only be a matter of time before some bad actor exploited that capability to load malware onto our devices. My walled garden isn't as effective if you put in a gate even if I don't personally use that gate.

zorinlynx said:
The thing is, you are free to stay inside the walled garden. If Apple allowed side loading they would probably make users go far out of their way to do it. Which is fine; if us geeks want to play around with unvetted software and we are aware of the risks, why not?

Make it difficult enough to the average non-techie won't bother, but those of us who want to side load still can. This is already sort of the case with Xcode free provisioning, but they need to make the certificates last longer than a week.
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Side loading is possible today (as you note with those caveats) but obviously that's not enough for those pursuing this action. I don't see cert expirations as the obstacle they are trying to overcome, it appears they want an untethered approach which is considerably riskier for exploit vectors.
 
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cmwade77 said:
All iPhone would need to do is use the Android approach: You can download anything from the official app store, if you download from other stores, a warning appears saying something to the effect that this is from an untrusted source, if you install this things may not work properly. They could even add in a clause that says if you need warranty service you have to uninstall all apps from untrusted sources first.

This would actually be a reasonable balance between the two positions.
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Not really, Android allows for it and has found a way to do so as safely as possible, so it CAN be done.
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Well, given that Android has a malware problem even greater than its market share, it's debatable whether their practices are "as safe as possible" - i.e. Apple's approach is obviously safer.

Why should Apple "balance" anything in this regard? People who don't like the approach Apple has chosen, don't have to buy their phones!
 
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thisisnotmyname said:
I'm generally a proponent of "no one is forcing you, just don't use it" but in this case they would need to weaken defenses to allow untethered loading of third party apps. Despite my not personally using that feature it would only be a matter of time before some bad actor exploited that capability to load malware onto our devices. My walled garden isn't as effective if you put in a gate even if I don't personally use that gate.
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Well I'm not an developer so I can't speak on "weaken defenses".
If you have technical knowledge of how the defenses would be weakened would you care to share them?
 
Everyone's saying that Apple should do it the Android way, but couldn't they just do it the Mac way? The Mac already comes with third part apps restricted (can't remember if it's App Store only by default or trusted developers that have a security certificate that can be revoked). But you can unlock the system to put anything you want on there. IT admins who think this will be a nightmare would just need to distribute profiles using Apple's tools that would restrict this setting from being an option on those devices. The only thing I'm not certain about is if it leaves iOS more open to some sort of back door intrusion.
 
Allowing non-vetted apps is bad for Apple. The first reports of malware being loaded onto iOS devices will sully the image of the device. Apple won’t go for it. Given a dearth of alternate options, they would much rather just stop selling into Italy. It woudln’t not otherwise be worth the cost.

I suspect there is though, an alternate solution which will cut off the nuts of this legislation.
 
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123 said:
He is not an IT manager. As an IT manager, it's not your job to fix people's iPhones. Besides, in an enterprise environment, settings can be managed company-wide. E.g. the setting that allows people to install apps from different app stores.
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I am. And I'm responsible for the dozen or so iPhones we have. The owner does not want to pay for a MDM solution. Doesn't want it even if it was free.

Real life in IT is rarely ideal.
 
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Why can't there be choice?

People can buy what they want, and be told in advance that if they choose to buy the iPhone, they will have to use it within a Wall Garden and its limitations. Some people don't mind the 'limitations'.

Others can choose buy a different phone and be happy about it.
 
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How about just starting with the ability to change default apps like Microsoft was forced to do with Internet Explorer? That would take care of 80% of the complaints. The remaining is to be able to side load apps not from App Store but with a popup notification and scanned like how Android does it. That means Apple need to mirror Google's world class virustotal.com efforts.
 
Brian Y said:
This is going to ban a lot more than just iPhones!

I can't run open-source games on my xbox, ps4 or Nintendo switch.

Tbh, I'm sure that if Apple said "sure we'll pull out of Italy" Italy would be mourning the tax losses before Apple misses the revenue.
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Difference is you can make any Xbox game without giving Microsoft a cut, so anyone can make stuff for them, it is not the same with Apple, either you pay the fee or you cannot run your app on the iPhone...

I mean I can sell an XBOX game online, on a store and I get to pick with store, I can buy an iPhone app only trought them, if this is not monopoly I don't know what is!
 
Why would they ban the iphone? they have the 'right to choose' another platform that lets them do what they want. If they user wants to buy the iphone they know what they're getting into. Just because you 'want' something doesn't mean a company has to change their business to comply with your requests. Don't like it don't buy it
 
intofx said:
Why would they ban the iphone? they have the 'right to choose' another platform that lets them do what they want. If they user wants to buy the iphone they know what they're getting into. Just because you 'want' something doesn't mean a company has to change their business to comply with your requests. Don't like it don't buy it
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You have it upside down, they do not tell Apple what to do, they say If you wanna sell here this are the requirements, otherwise you can go sell it elsewhere.

Nobody wants to tell Apple how to do it, they just want Apple to follow a rule, how they do it it is their decision.

Just because you 'want' stuff done your way doesn't mean a state has to change its laws to comply with your needs. Don't like it sell it somewhere else!
 
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AsherN said:
I am. And I'm responsible for the dozen or so iPhones we have. The owner does not want to pay for a MDM solution. Doesn't want it even if it was free.

Real life in IT is rarely ideal.
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True. And many businesses do not accept VPN connections using Android devices, even when the functionality is available for Android. Why? because of the security risks. Users download junk and bring malware into their devices with ease.

The iPhone makes it easier to manage all that to some extent, even without a MDM solution.
 
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C00rDiNaT0r said:
Technically you can get anything installed on the iPhone if you know how, I think someone even booted up WinXP on the original iPhone in the past! So at the end of the day it really depends on how the letter of the law phrases the requirement, maybe Apple won't need to do anything extra and issue a statement along the line of "there has always been ways we just don't recommend it"..
[doublepost=1498233297][/doublepost]

I might be really bad at geography, but I suppose if there is any ban in Italy, the Italians can simply take a 1-2hr commute (maybe train/ferry?) to any neighboring EU country to get one..
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Depending on where you live in Italy this is very correct.
 
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Talk about clickbait that will just turn in to general whining about Apple's so-called "walled garden". The iPhone is not going to be banned in Italy.
 
AsherN said:
I am. And I'm responsible for the dozen or so iPhones we have. The owner does not want to pay for a MDM solution. Doesn't want it even if it was free.

Real life in IT is rarely ideal.
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I also work in IT, and I agree. It's far from ideal.

As for the topic, I can see both sides. There are apps that may be useful to me that Apple won't allow on iOS, but I can see the benefits of securing against malicious apps. Unfortunately, there's no good 1 size fits all that makes everyone happy solution.
 
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sinsin07 said:
You either have limited experience or have no idea what your talking about.
Some companies IT departments allow BYOD and have corporate apps that employees use on those devices.
Some executives in these companies expect and want the tech department to look at other issues with their personsal devices.
I have worked at couple of companies like this in NYC and I'm talking companies with staff greater than 200 thousand employees worldwide.
Of course this is ancdeotal.
YMMV
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Nope, worked closely with IT when I was using a BYOD device and guess what, you have to sign a document to say that you’d stay within certain hardware/software limits to protect their intellectual property otherwise I could bring in a device that’s home made and runs my own OS and leaks like data a sieve, then give it to IT to fix.
If your company doesn’t have a policy of some sort to manage even BYOD, the only word I can use to describe it is Tin Pot.
 
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