Proposed Law Against Apple's 'Walled Garden' Software Approach Sparks Fears of iPhone Ban in Italy

[KidAKidB]

Doesn't side-loading count as a way to download apps to your device?

If only Apple made it easier... The average user has no idea how to do it right now...
[doublepost=1498236732][/doublepost]

Talk about clickbait that will just turn in to general whining about Apple's so-called "walled garden". The iPhone is not going to be banned in Italy.

If the Italian court goes far enough with this they can easily ban the iPhone in Italy for this. It's pretty much equivalent to an anti-trust.

 

[NoNothing]

Malware is prevalent on the Google Play store, not just external apps. This setting isn't as much of a contributor to Android's security problems as you might think.

It does loosen up the encryption and signing keys, though. In my view, if side loading is important to you as a user, Android is the clear choice. To dictate that EVERY platform MUST conform to government dictated "openness" has the real potential of weakening security for the vast number of users who do not want to side-load.

 

[J InTech82]

I'm sure someone beat me to it but wouldn't every gaming console also be banned?

 

[Gasu E.]

Its not the job of a politician to 'understand how it works'.
The job of a politician is to set policy/enact law and have government employees/regulators and the private sector understand how 'things work' and how to implement the policy.

Politicians should understand the impact of their decisions before they make them. I doubt this particular set have heard, or understand, the legitimate advantages to consumers of the walled-garden approach.

 

[KidAKidB]

And here we have another example of politicians not understanding how anything works.

How do they not understand how it works? They do understand and they're trying to put pressure on Apple to allow users to have more control over the devices they use.

 

[nsayer]

No it won't, you can buy console games anywhere, not only in their stores.....GameStop, BestBuy, you know... stores different from the manufacturer's one?

But you can't buy any software you might want. You can only buy software that's approved by the manufacturer. There are lots of games that have been written that you can only run by "rooting" the console because they haven't been approved.

 

[NoNothing]

If only Apple made it easier... The average user has no idea how to do it right now...
[doublepost=1498236732][/doublepost]
If the Italian court goes far enough with this they can easily ban the iPhone in Italy for this. It's pretty much equivalent to an anti-trust.

It is nothing like anti-trust unless you are saying the iPhone represents a monopoly in cell phones. This is a draconian government law with as much forethought and dangers as many governments desire for encryption backdoors.

 

[nsayer]

If the Italian court goes far enough with this they can easily ban the iPhone in Italy for this. It's pretty much equivalent to an anti-trust.

If they do, Apple should just say "Fine, be that way," and pull out of Italy entirely.

 

[MrChurchyard]

I might be really bad at geography, but I suppose if there is any ban in Italy, the Italians can simply take a 1-2hr commute (maybe train/ferry?) to any neighboring EU country to get one..

You are indeed Most parts of Italy are way further away than 1-2hr train rides from neighboring EU countries, this isn’t New York/New Jersey. E.g. Reggio Calabria to Milano or Torino would take you 8,5-12 hours for instance, and then from there longer still to France or Switzerland (not EU).

 

[Gasu E.]

How do they not understand how it works? They do understand and they're trying to put pressure on Apple to allow users to have more control over the devices they use.

As long as users are willing to sign away any obligation of Apple providing service or support, you have a point. Is that part of the bill?

 

[mi7chy]

Not even REMOTELY the same as the situation with Apple's iOS software.
If you actually read the link you posted:

... Microsoft abused monopoly power on Intel-based personal computers...​

So you're saying that Apple has a monopoly on smartphones with ARM-based processors? Not even close. Customers have lots of choices if they don't like Apple's software.
iOS marketshare on smartphones does not compare to Windows' marketshare on PCs in the 90s. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Try not to think as an apologist and it'll make complete sense. Like US vs Microsoft case, Apple have a monopoly on iOS and are abusing it to force their own default apps down people's throat. Even Apple's own MacOS doesn't do it so iOS shouldn't be exempted.

 

[leman]

First of all, I think its great that legal initiatives like these are gaining traction, there is way to much potentially super abusive practices in IT industry (we also need to make data selling illegal, create proper data protection laws such as obligatory end-to-end encryption as well as as completely kill of software patents).

Second, I don't really see how this affects iOS. You can download and install whatever you want, and there are no restrictions on which software you can choose. There are restrictions on what software will run on the platform, which has nothing to do with user's choice. If its available on App Store, please, get it and use it.

Of course, without knowing the detail of the bill, its impossible to tell for sure. But I would be very surprised if the bill prescribes unlimited access to hardware and software services for the third-party.
[doublepost=1498237573][/doublepost]

Try not to think as an apologist and it'll make complete sense. Like US vs Microsoft case, Apple have a monopoly on iOS and are abusing it to force their own default apps down people's throat. Even Apple's own MacOS doesn't do it so iOS shouldn't be exempted.

I agree. The user needs to have the option to remove the default apps if wanted.

 

[nsayer]

You are indeed Most parts of Italy are way further away than 1-2hr train rides from neighboring EU countries, this isn’t New York/New Jersey. E.g. Reggio Calabria to Milano or Torino would take you 8,5-12 hours for instance, and then from there longer still to France or Switzerland (not EU).

Perhaps, but there's no bar within the EU to buying something from a neighboring country and having it mailed to you.
[doublepost=1498237655][/doublepost]

Try not to think as an apologist and it'll make complete sense. Like US vs Microsoft case, Apple have a monopoly on iOS and are abusing it to force their own default apps down people's throat. Even Apple's own MacOS doesn't do it so iOS shouldn't be exempted.

Adobe has a monopoly on the Adobe Flash Player too. Clearly that has to also be dealt with.

 

[sinsin07]

And on those devices you'd use a software management tool like Good or Microsoft Intune to restrict software installation of sideloaded software on Android if you want them to be compliant with a device security policy.

There are thousands of companies worldwide that do this and strong, tested solutions.

Good is used to manage devices.
This is not what is being referenced.
These companies do not restrict what users can install on BYOD, just that they are not jailbroken.
Restricting personal app installation defeats the purpose of BYOD. You might as well have an company managed devices.

 

[kdarling]

And here we have another example of politicians not understanding how anything works.

On the contrary, it makes sense.

After all, net neutrality is why we can watch or download almost anything we want, without fear of providers blocking us.

I've always wondered why it's okay to demand such freedom all the way down to the user, and then at that point suddenly decide that a major corporation can act as a gatekeeper / censor.

 

[Bacillus]

I’ve noticed over the past


As an IT manager, this would be a complete nightmare. The last thing I want is for people to bring their iOS devices to me and bitch about poor performance or worse a compromised device. Apple would never make such a compromise.

Apple is slowly opening up their ecosystem in a way that makes sense to Apple. The next step would be to allow users to assign default apps in iOS. If a user really needs to download a program outside of the App Store, they should learn how to sideload apps.

There would certainly be room for a sandboxed, curated app space, via emulation, that has both the benefits of free apps with (limited) access OS and the possibility to completely erase it when compromised.

 

[jimothyGator]

Dear politicians,

Please stop trying to protect me from myself.

Sincerely,
Everyone with an ounce of common sense.
[doublepost=1498238665][/doublepost]

After all, net neutrality is why we can watch or download almost anything we want, without fear of providers blocking us.

Remember prior to April, 2014, when you couldn't watch or download almost anything you want?

Me neither. Because this never a problem.

 

[kdarling]

Dear politicians,
Please stop trying to protect me from myself.
Sincerely,
Everyone with an ounce of common sense.

That comment doesn't even make any logical sense.

Now if you had said: "Dear Apple, please stop trying to protect me from myself," then it would.

Remember prior to April, 2014, when you couldn't watch or download almost anything you want?
Me neither. Because this never a problem.

You don't seem to know the history of net neutrality, nor the attempts to make companies pay extra for more bandwidth.

Nor most importantly, the way that some people like Steve Jobs used to rail against carriers being "orifices" because everything from phones to ringtones to apps had to be vetted and approved by the carriers.

Of course, all Jobs did was create the same situation, only even more restrictive when it came to smartphone apps. I guess he saw dollar signs and changed his mind about "orifices".

 

[DrumApple]

If walled garden = zone free of people trying to hack me and infect my device, you can find me near the tulips.

 

[LordVic]

Glad to see that there are some countries talking about this.

it's a discussion i was having in another thread yetserday about this very idea.

My ideal is that once you purchase hardware, you own that hardware. No company can dictate what you can/cannot install on that hardware.

While Apple might own iOS and it's licensing rights, Those who buy the hardware should have the right to remove iOS and install a 3rd party OS of their choice (with all the pros and cons associated with it).

it's my hardware after all. not apples. And Apple isn't alone in this. There are android manu's who lock their devices this way too, so that you must use their OS version and agree to their terms of service or your device itself is bricked until you accept.

Hardware platforms should be open. now, if nobody writes an OS for an iPhone, thats completely different. But I should have the right to install whatever I want on the hardware I purchase.
[doublepost=1498239727][/doublepost]

Try not to think as an apologist and it'll make complete sense. Like US vs Microsoft case, Apple have a monopoly on iOS and are abusing it to force their own default apps down people's throat. Even Apple's own MacOS doesn't do it so iOS shouldn't be exempted.

I'm definitely not an apologist. I don't agree with this at all. Apple is not in a monopolistic position. While they might have a "monopoly" as they're the only ones who sell iPhones and iOS, the market is smartphones, and Apple is < 40% of that market. Users still have lots of choice, if they don't like iOS or the walled garden approach, they have options from dozens of other manufacturers for a smartphone still.

This isnt' anything like Microsoft's case due to the size. Microsoft at the time was on 95% of all computers, which is why they were seen to have a dominant and monopolistic market position.

This is despite the point that I believe Apple should open up their hardware (see my last post). But if I choose to go iOS, i'm not apposed to the App Store as it exists today (except maybe for the percentage Apple takes)

 

[barthrh]

How what works? I think they have a very clear idea of how Apple prevents users from installing whatever they like.

You can install anything you want on your smartphone. The first step is to buy a brand of smartphone that has the features that matter to you. If installing anything you want from any source is important to you, then don't buy an iPhone. I don't believe that Apple prevents you from buying a different phone.

 

[8692574]

But you can't buy any software you might want. You can only buy software that's approved by the manufacturer. There are lots of games that have been written that you can only run by "rooting" the console because they haven't been approved.

I am not siding either pro nor cons, but again you are making a wrong assumption, the issue here it is not that Italy ask Apple to let people run windows or any unsupported software on your iPhone, they are asking for other means for obtaining fully supported app.

The thing is right now Apple get to decide who gets in or not in the App store and gets a cut out of it.

They want you to be able to pick if you want to download say.... Navigon from a 3rd party store, hence allowing price competition, immagine if the new store only got 5% of their price, navigo could lower by 20% their prices and still getting more money than if they sold it brought the official store.

They are asking nothing more than what it is available today from Apple, you can get macOS software both from their store and outside, they are asking the same thing but on iOS!

 

[Lacasse]

Won't ever happen.

For those who support this...I don't understand what motivates this way of thinking. If I wanted a device to install third party apps, or for it do stuff other than intended or designed......I wouldn't buy an iPhone. I don't get it.

 

[LordVic]

I agree. The user needs to have the option to remove the default apps if wanted.

Since iOS 10 you can remove basically every single default application.

you can't define replacement defaults (whichs ucks and Apple needs to fix), but you can at least delete the useless bloatware they included by default

 

[Lacasse]

You can install anything you want on your smartphone. The first step is to buy a brand of smartphone that has the features that matter to you. If installing anything you want from any source is important to you, then don't buy an iPhone. I don't believe that Apple prevents you from buying a different phone.

Exactly.