Props to people still giving Apple their money for the 2016-2018 MacBooks

[AppleHaterLover]

If you include the cost of a private butler to carry it everywhere for you, it's even more expensive.

I mean.. what are you even trying to argue here? That accessories increase the price? Colour me shocked and surprised sir.

He/she's got a very good point.

I've configured a base 15" MBP over at Apple Switzerland, which is CHF 2,699. Obviously pushing CHF 3,000.

Then I added a few indispensable accessories:

-All hardware upgrades: CHF 8,300.05
USB-C adapter: CHF 19
Multiport adapter: CHF 79
USB-C to Lightning cable: CHF 19
USB-C to SD adapter: CHF 45
Case: CHF 219
Blackmagic eGPU: CHF 739
LG Ultrafine 5K Display: CHF 1349
Thunderbolt cable (0.8m to save some money): CHF 45
Magic Mouse 2: CHF 89
Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 Adapter: CHF 55
AirPods: CHF 178.50
Extension cable: CHF 19
USB-C G Drive, 1 TB: CHF 84.95

I've also added an iMac Pro as an accessory (CHF 14,957.35), because why not, it will look good on my desk.

Total de la commande: CHF 26,286.85

That's with free shipping! Clearly one of the most expensive and overpriced laptops in the market. Meanwhile I can get a ThinkPad P1 for 1819 CHF.

 

[LogicalApex]

They just need to get a little easier to service, so that a keyboard-exchange isn't several hundred dollars. That is IMO just not acceptable.

I agree it would be better if repairs were easier so that we could repair easily on our own if we care to do so.

That being said, there isn't really any easy fix for the cost to repair these devices. Apple controls the hardware so the price for all parts are dictated by Apple. Apple could make the keyboard a simple repair and still charge $500 for the keyboard part. Similar reason why it is often cheaper to buy new appliances, like a washer, than it would be to repair your existing one. The parts can be very expensive when weighed against a new unit because the manufacturer can price the replacement parts however they like.

Lenovo allows easy swapping of parts on their devices and the Keyboard for the Lenovo X1 Carbon 6th Generation has a list price of $464 from Lenovo. That excludes installation labor...

Ease of repair offers more options, but doesn't mean repairs will be cheaper.

 

[revmacian]

It's not a matter about what reviewers say - it's that there's flaws with the product that will show up inevitably regardless of what happens, and then you'll have to pray that Apple opens up a repair/replacement program unless you want to pay $700-800.

You can believe whatever garbage you want, but you do not know the future any more than anyone else. And, you definitely know nothing about me, my needs or my computing habits. I get so tired of hearing from know-it-alls like you who end up being proven wrong.
[doublepost=1548287695][/doublepost]

Genuinely wishing you all the best with the laptop.

I expect to fare well. I have a friend who has owned one since a week after release day and has never had any problems with it.. which is why I chose this model.
[doublepost=1548290956][/doublepost]

Wait... There is something wrong with the 2018 MBP??? That's odd.. mine works great.

Yeah, just because some folks experience an issue with a certain product doesn't guarantee that everyone will experience the same issue with that product. Different people treat their equipment in different ways and that makes a difference.

 

[jakespeed]

Well, enjoy your feeling of superiority. In the meantime, I’m buying a dozen MBPs per year for my group and couldn’t be happier with the reliability or functionality.

Very similar situation for me as well. I have a development group and around 15 of them run Macs. We replace them ever 3 years so most of them (about 12) are 2016 or greater. So far we have a bad USB port (loose) a bad pixel on one laptop that was immediately replaced and no other issues on any of them.

We have had 0 keyboard failures and 0 stage lights.

 

[Cashmonee]

This is clearly a troll thread and should be closed.

 

[revmacian]

Very similar situation for me as well. I have a development group and around 15 of them run Macs. We replace them ever 3 years so most of them (about 12) are 2016 or greater. So far we have a bad USB port (loose) a bad pixel on one laptop that was immediately replaced and no other issues on any of them.

We have had 0 keyboard failures and 0 stage lights.

Part of the problem is that a person buys an Apple product, experiences an issue with the product and then goes out of their way to blame Apple for every bad thing that has ever happened to them (gross generalization). The mistake some of those folks make is to allow negative experiences to lock their minds up so tight that nothing ever has a chance of getting in - an act of self-defense invoked in the hopes that it will prevent further injury. A closed mind cannot be reasoned with, it cannot be consoled and it cannot be educated. The best thing we can do is to learn from them and not repeat their mistake.

 

[MacDonaldTrump]

Love mine, churning through work! hasn't stopped performing at all.
I am worried about resale value, and possible ongoing repair issues. i invested all i could to buy this.
Would be nice/reassuring to read more positive feedback than what I see on the forum.

 

[Cashmonee]

Part of the problem is that a person buys an Apple product, experiences an issue with the product and then goes out of their way to blame Apple for every bad thing that has ever happened to them (gross generalization). The mistake some of those folks make is to allow negative experiences to lock their minds up so tight that nothing ever has a chance of getting in - an act of self-defense invoked in the hopes that it will prevent further injury. A closed mind cannot be reasoned with, it cannot be consoled and it cannot be educated. The best thing we can do is to learn from them and not repeat their mistake.

There are few companies that draw people's ire like Apple does. It probably comes from the smugness that Apple certainly projects. Even still, as I have said many times now, go look at Reddit for Dell, Lenovo, etc. and you will see similar sky is falling complaints. Things are simply magnified because of the high concentration of Apple's lineup (not a ton of models compared to PC) and the rabid and involved nature of their users.

 

[revmacian]

Would be nice/reassuring to read more positive feedback than what I see on the forum.

Want something reassuring? How about this:
How many of these machines were sold vs how many people on these forums have problems with them. My point is that the number of people on these forums who are having issues with this machine are only a small percentage of the machines that are currently in operation. I feel that this perspective is important.
[doublepost=1548299198][/doublepost]

There are few companies that draw people's ire like Apple does. It probably comes from the smugness that Apple certainly projects. Even still, as I have said many times now, go look at Reddit for Dell, Lenovo, etc. and you will see similar sky is falling complaints. Things are simply magnified because of the high concentration of Apple's lineup (not a ton of models compared to PC) and the rabid and involved nature of their users.

Very good points.. thank you.

 

[Cashmonee]

Want something reassuring? How about this:
How many of these machines were sold vs how many people on these forums have problems with them. My point is that the number of people on these forums who are having issues with this machine are only a small percentage of the machines that are currently in operation. I feel that this perspective is important.

I have been shouting this from the rooftops here to no avail. Perspective is something that is definitely lost on the tech community in general.

 

[IngerMan]

Positive feedback;

2017 MBP purchased new last summer daily user. Love it
2016 MBP 2+ years never an issue
2015 27” iMac. Just sold a few days ago. Never an issue.
2007 20” iMac still works never an issue but boxed it up a while ago.

I have been fortunate with Apple products and plan on continuing purchasing their products.

I did have my iPad mini 4 fail after a few years but I suspected coffee damage. Went in and got a replacement for $99 battery charge.

 

[macintoshmac]

Yes - USB C to HDMI to external monitors for both of us. lol.
[doublepost=1548267939][/doublepost]

I'll be honest, I really liked my 2015 MBA. I loved that thing and used it daily for 3 years and it worked well even till the day I got rid of it. I regret selling it back for $450. Could definitely had made due with a 2017 MBA. Enjoy it for me.

And I hear you, that's in the back of my head. Hopefully by the time my AppleCare+ and 4 years of keyboard warranty from Apple wear off, I can sell it back to Apple for a MBA 2022!

Wishing you many more years of rock-solidness with your 2017 computer! If not for the nagging my head, I would never have sold my 2016. In India, these things are not cheap to buy and not cheap to service. Not that they are cheap anywhere at the moment, but these things are even costlier than their USD pricing in terms of INR.

The MBA keyboard is different from the MBP (2011) keyboard, right? I feel that these keys have slightly less travel or something, a mix between my 2011 keys and the 2016 keys? Or is there something wrong with my body's haptic feedback system now?

 

[Mendota]

This makes so much sense, unfortunately Apple have a lot of leeway before they have irreversible company damage.

Firstly competitors products need to start coming out. Nothing touches the MBP on aesthetics, nothing comes remotely close, the amount of friends I have with dell/hp/toshiba with dodgy hinges is surreal. There's really not much we can do right now, our hands are almost forced, I was looking at selling my 2018 MBP 15inch, but what would I buy? XPS? Lenovo P1? They don't come close.

My question is how many years are we away from Tims Destruction? I mean, if they cock up the iPhones this year again, and then mess up the MacBooks the year after. After that we are looking at a pretty bad image.

Apples competitors are coming mighty close with their phones, the Huawei and Google phones are fantastic, and look great too. The tablet market is also saturated with the Surface Book rivalling the iPad.

Very soon guys...

There are many beautiful Window's PCs. You just are not looking. The HP Spectre x360 was voted the most beautiful PC by quite a few reviewers and users. The Surface Laptop is also quite a looker. And given the recent discovery of "dodgy hinges and screens on Macs, there is no room to talk about others.
[doublepost=1548313257][/doublepost]

According to stats, basically one in three laptops is expected to fail after three years. Your chances are not too good no matter what you buy. A increased 2% or so chance of keyboard failure doesn’t make any difference. Not to mention that Apple always offers extended warranty if problems are substantial.

And anyway, you have 2 years of standard warranty in CH so you are fairly safe agains any kind of serious problem anyway (since these manifest themselves early on).

Where are these stats you speak of? Because I have computers and laptops that are over 10 years and they are still going. Good Heavens I can't get my husband to throw them away, because they are still working! and running Windows 10. In fact I have only had one laptop that had an issue in year 5 and I have bought many many laptops and computers over the past 20 years. If you are use to things failing, perhaps it is because you are exclusively using Apple. What does that tell you? And please don't bore me with the "cheap pc" response. The answer to that is don't buy cheap.

 

[lnikj]

My biggest issue is the slow but persistent change in company ethos, away from the professional creatives who rescued Apple from the doldrums to the consumers where the big $$$s are.

Those of us who actually need the power of a MBP to do whatever it is we do, rather than just having bragging rights of having the latest/fastest/shiniest toy, feel (I think) that Apple is no longer catering for our needs. This is because we are just a tiny fraction of their profits now.

Apple are innovative in many ways and one of their latest innovations is disposable unrepairable devices. Not the end of the world with a £500 phone but a big deal with a £4000 notebook.

Maybe Apple never intended to achieve the longevity in their products that we have hitherto enjoyed, or maybe it suited them whilst they were building their "it just works" brand.

However, it is a problem for them now that I have not replaced my iPhone 5s and have no intention of doing so until it ceases functioning.

Phil Schiller thinks users of 5 year old computers are "sad". The solution: build a computer with components that will only last 3 or 4 years. Don't be like the proverbial UK milk float company that went out of business because their vehicles were so reliable that nobody every replaced them.

At the end of the day it is about shareholders and profits and nothing else.

Is the grass any greener on the other side? I am about to find out. At least I will buying a computer that is more tailored to my needs and at half the cost of the faulty 2018 MBP I returned. If it fails out of warranty then I have a fighting chance of fixing it; if I can't fix it then I can buy another one, have a faster computer, and still have saved money in the long run.

I would like to stay with Apple (and will be with an iPhone, two iPads and an iMac) but it has finally sunk in that I need a different notebook to the one they have been making for the last few years.

 

[weckart]

I expect to fare well. I have a friend who has owned one since a week after release day and has never had any problems with it.. which is why I chose this model.

Playing devil's advocate here; you expect to fare well with that model because of a single anecdotal experience of a friend but rag on the OP for expecting the opposite because of the same? Hard to tell who the smart one is here.

I know - wanting to use some thing longer than three years is an anachronism these days. But I really hope Apple realizes that these things are so expensive now that people want and need to get more use out of them - and for their own sake, I also hope they realize they have to make these things easier to repair. All these replacements are surely eating into their margins my now.

More to the point, part of the halo surrounding Apple hardware is the high resale value; something that has been declining as of late. If the useful lifetime is reduced to the lifespan of Applecare then people might be less inclined in future to pay those high ticket prices. If Apple wants to maintain its sky high margins, it will need to look at more reliable designs where the simplest of problems don't cost a fortune to repair.

 

[macintoshmac]

Playing devil's advocate here; you expect to fare well with that model because of a single anecdotal experience of a friend but rag on the OP for expecting the opposite because of the same? Hard to tell who the smart one is here.



More to the point, part of the halo surrounding Apple hardware is the high resale value; something that has been declining as of late. If the useful lifetime is reduced to the lifespan of Applecare then people might be less inclined in future to pay those high ticket prices. If Apple wants to maintain its sky high margins, it will need to look at more reliable designs where the simplest of problems don't cost a fortune to repair.

I think they might be coming back to the old, slowly, as with the new Air the battery is supposedly replaceable, if I remember correctly.

 

[Ma2k5]

Yeah, just because some folks experience an issue with a certain product doesn't guarantee that everyone will experience the same issue with that product. Different people treat their equipment in different ways and that makes a difference.

1. No one said everyone will experience an issue
2. Citation needed for your claim that people who experience the issue, use the product differently OR that you using it differently can mean you won't get the mechanism failure (which has nothing to do with dust).

The issue the MacBook has, is also presently well known on another couple of premium laptop offerings. It has nothing to do with "care" and babying the MacBook (which you shouldn't need to do in the first place).

 

[revmacian]

Playing devil's advocate here; you expect to fare well with that model because of a single anecdotal experience of a friend but rag on the OP for expecting the opposite because of the same? Hard to tell who the smart one is here.

I expect to fare well.. my expectations affect only me and I'm adopting a positive attitude - which the world sees. The OP, on the other hand, has adopted a negative attitude - which the world also sees - and is poking fun at others while labeling all of these machines "faulty".. mine isn't faulty - which means the OP is incorrect.

There is a big difference there.. even if you can't see it.

 

[weckart]

I think they might be coming back to the old, slowly, as with the new Air the battery is supposedly replaceable, if I remember correctly.

Somewhat but it seems that what Apple giveth with the one hand it taketh away with the other. Case in point: The new Mac Mini. Memory is no longer soldered in but the SSD is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[revmacian]

1. No one said everyone will experience an issue.

The OP did.. by implying that all of these machines are "faulty".

Go back and read what the OP wrote.. instead of what you wanted to see.

 

[weckart]

I expect to fare well.. my expectations affect only me and I'm adopting a positive attitude - which the world sees. The OP, on the other hand, has adopted a negative attitude - which the world also sees - and is poking fun at others while labeling all of these machines "faulty".. mine isn't faulty.

There is a big difference there.. even if you can't see it.

Your expectations are polar opposites but the reasoning that got both of you to where you are is identical.

 

[MacRazySwe]

Decided against the 2018 MBP for three reasons. Heat/fan related issues, sub-par battery life (coming from 2013 MBP) and the ridiculous Touch Bar. Can't provide any personal experience in terms of quality, but my uncle has the 2016 Touch Bar model and he's on his second keyboard and just recently had to change the entire display ($500) due to the flex cable breaking. Not very comforting.

However, after using Win PCs daily at work since 2016, I can tell you where I'd rather be. Not with a Win PC, that's for sure.

It is definitely an interesting point, personally I got fed up with Apple’s laptop range and brought a Surface Pro 6 during the Black Friday deals. After months of using it I do like it, HOWEVER I still prefer MacOS much more! I’m still keeping my surface pro 6 around as I love to use it for Windows gaming. The simple fact is that a lot of people (myself included) stick with Mac’s because of the OS.

That being said I don’t plan on buying a new MacBook this year, an iMac yes (to update from my current 2012) when Apple actually update them that is. While I’m happy with the Surface there are many things I prefer with the Mac and MacOS.

The thing is as well the Surface Pro isn’t a good tablet and so I’m still using my iPad Pro alongside it.

Not sure why you decided on the Surface Pro, after spending two years waiting on the MacBook Air? It's obvious that the MacBook Air was the laptop you were waiting for. Large(r) screen, in a thin and light package.

The new MacBook Air is a fantastic machine. Does everything I've thrown at it, while remaining silent and cool to the touch. Battery life is fantastic and Touch ID is a nice benefit.

As of now, I couldn't be happier - remains to be seen how it holds up. This is my first experience with the modern day laptops from Apple, coming from a 2007 MBP, 2009 MB, 2011 MBA and 2013 rMBP.

 

[Plett]

Want something reassuring? How about this:
How many of these machines were sold vs how many people on these forums have problems with them. My point is that the number of people on these forums who are having issues with this machine are only a small percentage of the machines that are currently in operation. I feel that this perspective is important.
[doublepost=1548299198][/doublepost]
Very good points.. thank you.

Glad to see a rational thinker and. I am glad I started on the last page. I just took delivery of mine due to, I just wanted a new one (from a 2015) ***** love it! My pals that have them since 2016 love theirs as well. I own nothing mechanical that has not had an issue at some point in time, and when it happens I deal with it. My Daughter's 2015 MBA had a trackpad fail, wonder if it was a trackpadgate? Or likely just a mechanical device that failed. The nice thing was Apple fixed it in short order no big deal.

On these forums when the iPhone Xs came out there was a guy looking at the case and finish with a loupe. Now that's fine but 75 micron imperfection will never be noticed and what's the point. Now what was interesting here was the support he received from other like minded that considered returning this phone multiple times until he got a perfect copy, again 75microns. Then you read this thread and find that folks are upset about the cost of Apple products? HMMM Not that they would ever be cheap, but who do you think pays for the fanboy returns? We do, it's built in to the cost of these various machines. On my shiny new 2018 MBP that I received yesterday and am happy to report I put a loupe to the case and observed multiple 75 micron defects, which is perfect because if ever stolen I will present the detective with the images demonstrating the defects so when they find my machine they can take it to a forensic lab for positive ID!

Here is where Apple is genius and a menace to society. They have positioned themselves as a boutique brand, and attracted customers that want an elite experience. That was great in 2000, fast forward and before the dive they overtook Microsoft, which was the pariah and evil mega monster 20 years ago. Now the Apple mega-machine is starting to crack and the scary part is those attracted to the status of the brand have no where to turn!

 

[revmacian]

It is just my opinion, but I feel that brand loyalty is a bad thing. Attempting to be loyal to any certain company has the potential to cause disappointment when the company makes a bad product - there are scores of threads here that support that supposition. I feel that the best way to handle things is to do research prior to purchasing a product to determine if the product works for your needs. The main reason I'm always a model or two behind is because new models usually haven't been in the hands of the public long enough to reveal issues. Being dependent on a single company or product can bring about consistency, but it can also serve as a single point of failure.

Again, just my opinion.

 

[Ma2k5]

The OP did.. by implying that all of these machines are "faulty".

Go back and read what the OP wrote.. instead of what you wanted to see.

They are faulty on a design perspective, there is an obvious design issue. Doesn't mean everything will be affected by the design issue, it depends if it fails or not for you. The design defect is just that, that the keyboards are more prone to failure.

Maybe trying to justify your purchase? If you look at my signature, I own one too but let's call a spade a spade. The keyboards have a fundamental design flaw which is why they are more prone to failure.